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gbu48098 wrote:
What is the that ship in the 2nd pic in the right corner behind the sub?
Everyone's favorite aircraft carrier...
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49 posters
Project 885: Yasen class #2
franco- Posts : 7053
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Everyone's favorite aircraft carrier...
gbu48098- Posts : 198
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Hmm, I wasn't sure from the angle the flat ramp from head on looks too triangle like so thought its something else but the height makes it either kirov class or kuzfranco wrote:
Everyone's favorite aircraft carrier...
LMFS- Posts : 5162
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franco wrote:Everyone's favorite aircraft carrier...
Nakhimov
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franco- Posts : 7053
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LMFS wrote:franco wrote:Everyone's favorite aircraft carrier...
Nakhimov
My bad
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PapaDragon
PapaDragon- Posts : 13472
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Big_Gazza wrote:The most potent SSGN/SSN on the planet is finally in service! Ура!
Now we just need another 6-8 laid down, and metal bent for the 1st hull of the Husky class, with another 14-19 to follow
Hey, if they lay down just 4 more they are golden
If they actually do another 6-8 they can put Husky on the back burner some more because they will have monster fleet coming up
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gbu48098- Posts : 198
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Join date : 2021-04-18
I guess its possible if START does not get extended or worse more limiting and the number of older attack subs projected to retire...PapaDragon wrote:Big_Gazza wrote:The most potent SSGN/SSN on the planet is finally in service! Ура!
Now we just need another 6-8 laid down, and metal bent for the 1st hull of the Husky class, with another 14-19 to follow
Hey, if they lay down just 4 more they are golden
If they actually do another 6-8 they can put Husky on the back burner some more because they will have monster fleet coming up
kvs- Posts : 15857
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Nice video debunking all the usual anti-Russian drivel about the inferiority of Russian submarines and how Russia takes forever to build
them. In this case the four year construction period (which is serial and not start-up) is trotted out and compared to the 12 year
construction frame of the first Yassen class submarine. Apples and avocados.
The delay on the of the Yassen construction was actually a good thing since there was substantial modernization that was not envisaged
in its 1980s and 1990s design. This included the Kaliber missiles and sonar tech. The hyped Virginia has fewer tubes for the obsolete
Tomahawk missiles. It also lacks any supersonic and hypersonic missile systems. And the Virginia is supposed to be newer than the Yassen!
The touted Virginia has twice the size crew of the Yassen but is much smaller. This is a serious issue since the small size of the Virginia makes
noise damping solutions harder to implement or not at all. Its crew size also requires living space which reduces the available space for
submarine technology including sound damping.
The operational depth of the Virginia is 320 meters compared to 520 for the Yassen. This is also a limitation of the Virginia's size. Even
though it has a maximum dive depth of 500 meters (600 m for the Yeassen), that is a dicey dive depth and not a real tolerance level.
The final detail is the cost, the Yassen is substantially cheaper because Russia is not diseased with MIC rot like the USA.
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lancelot- Posts : 3172
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kvs wrote:The operational depth of the Virginia is 320 meters compared to 520 for the Yassen. This is also a limitation of the Virginia's size. Even
though it has a maximum dive depth of 500 meters (600 m for the Yeassen), that is a dicey dive depth and not a real tolerance level.
The final detail is the cost, the Yassen is substantially cheaper because Russia is not diseased with MIC rot like the USA.
US submarine depth limits are a mirage.
https://news.yahoo.com/feds-company-provided-subpar-steel-203534466.html
They were built with subpar steel due to corruption of their MIC.
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Isos- Posts : 11602
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They also loose their coating making them much more noisy than what they designed.
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Backman- Posts : 2707
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It seems the Yasen is the su 57 of submarines so it's getting the su 57 treatment from the Western media.
They can't find anything substantive to bash it for. So they say it took too long to build. And hey. You don't have enough of them.
The Verginia also doesn't have an escape pod.
They can't find anything substantive to bash it for. So they say it took too long to build. And hey. You don't have enough of them.
The Verginia also doesn't have an escape pod.
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SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3900
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lancelot wrote:kvs wrote:The operational depth of the Virginia is 320 meters compared to 520 for the Yassen. This is also a limitation of the Virginia's size. Even
though it has a maximum dive depth of 500 meters (600 m for the Yeassen), that is a dicey dive depth and not a real tolerance level.
The final detail is the cost, the Yassen is substantially cheaper because Russia is not diseased with MIC rot like the USA.
US submarine depth limits are a mirage.
https://news.yahoo.com/feds-company-provided-subpar-steel-203534466.html
They were built with subpar steel due to corruption of their MIC.
No evidence exists that steel was ever used, and even that it was only a very small portion of the steel delivered.
Don't lie and if you wanna prove me wrong, show me evidence the steel was used otherwise you're talking out your ass.
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lancelot- Posts : 3172
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SeigSoloyvov wrote:No evidence exists that steel was ever used, and even that it was only a very small portion of the steel delivered.
Don't lie and if you wanna prove me wrong, show me evidence the steel was used otherwise you're talking out your ass.
Read the goddamned article.
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Backman- Posts : 2707
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I know we talk about The Drive aka the drivel too much here but here's one of the comments from the Yasen article
"Sounds like the Yasen M is undermanned"
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SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3900
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lancelot wrote:SeigSoloyvov wrote:No evidence exists that steel was ever used, and even that it was only a very small portion of the steel delivered.
Don't lie and if you wanna prove me wrong, show me evidence the steel was used otherwise you're talking out your ass.
Read the goddamned article.
I read that article over a year ago.
That said, no evidence any submarine was affected by what happened.
I have yet to see evidence it was. Only people like yourself making the claim without any facts behind it.
on the other hand....I can find plenty of Russian submarine accidents has a result or incompetence.
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gbu48098- Posts : 198
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Both countries sport excellent subs and they follow their strategies and are reflected in their designs and may come off as pros for one and cons for other....only simpletons seem to diss by reading articlesSeigSoloyvov wrote:
on the other hand....I can find plenty of Russian submarine accidents has a result or incompetence.
GarryB- Posts : 40541
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No evidence exists that steel was ever used, and even that it was only a very small portion of the steel delivered.
Don't lie and if you wanna prove me wrong, show me evidence the steel was used otherwise you're talking out your ass.
Just ignore the facts SS.... half the high quality steel they delivered to the navy specifically for building submarines was faulty and had its test results faked to suggest it passed tests it clearly failed.
Half the steel used to make submarines over a period of 20 years or so means it is not just highly likely... it is absolutely certain that that steel was used to make at the very least half of the submarines made during that period... and even more likely that all the submarines that were made during that period had a couple of sheets of this stuff in their outer skin.
That steel is expensive and they only use it to make submarines.... surface ships don't need pressure testing because when they get to 300m depths no one cares about whether the hull will hold to 500m or 450m...
The tests specifically were regarding colder water temperature tests, which means very little to most US submarines, but as the Russians open up their northern route for commercial traffic the US navy is going to butt their huge nose in and start heading up there to have a snoop around... but you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend nothing has happened... that is fine... it will be Americas youngest and brightest that will pay the price.
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TMA1- Posts : 1194
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SeigSoloyvov wrote:lancelot wrote:SeigSoloyvov wrote:No evidence exists that steel was ever used, and even that it was only a very small portion of the steel delivered.
Don't lie and if you wanna prove me wrong, show me evidence the steel was used otherwise you're talking out your ass.
Read the goddamned article.
I read that article over a year ago.
That said, no evidence any submarine was affected by what happened.
I have yet to see evidence it was. Only people like yourself making the claim without any facts behind it.
on the other hand....I can find plenty of Russian submarine accidents has a result or incompetence.
At first I thought you guys were just voicing dissent in good faith which is always good to cut down on cognitive dissonance. But you and gbu seem to feed on one another and there is a bitter sharpness and unwholesomeness to the posts you guys make. Especially a few days back with how you guys treated garryb. You both have made some great posts so I dont get it. Please cool it.
Anyways that's all I got to say on the matter and won't reply off topic on this thread again. I will say that the yasenm is turning into my favorite submarine. If they can build like 8 of them like others have said, it would be incredibly fearsome, particularly combined with the upgraded oscars. Russia is slowly building back its native might. The thing I admire most and why I always have a soft spot for ruskie kit is that it frequently peels off from the usual doctrine and theory of western powers and those that emulate it. Russia is making truly novel and powerful weaponry.
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TMA1- Posts : 1194
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kvs wrote:
Nice video debunking all the usual anti-Russian drivel about the inferiority of Russian submarines and how Russia takes forever to build
them. In this case the four year construction period (which is serial and not start-up) is trotted out and compared to the 12 year
construction frame of the first Yassen class submarine. Apples and avocados.
The delay on the of the Yassen construction was actually a good thing since there was substantial modernization that was not envisaged
in its 1980s and 1990s design. This included the Kaliber missiles and sonar tech. The hyped Virginia has fewer tubes for the obsolete
Tomahawk missiles. It also lacks any supersonic and hypersonic missile systems. And the Virginia is supposed to be newer than the Yassen!
The touted Virginia has twice the size crew of the Yassen but is much smaller. This is a serious issue since the small size of the Virginia makes
noise damping solutions harder to implement or not at all. Its crew size also requires living space which reduces the available space for
submarine technology including sound damping.
I'm a phone poster and frankly tho I am a millennial I am a boomer when it comes to tech. Is there a way to get auto translate to work on phones? Cannot get it to switch to english
The operational depth of the Virginia is 320 meters compared to 520 for the Yassen. This is also a limitation of the Virginia's size. Even
though it has a maximum dive depth of 500 meters (600 m for the Yeassen), that is a dicey dive depth and not a real tolerance level.
The final detail is the cost, the Yassen is substantially cheaper because Russia is not diseased with MIC rot like the USA.
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gbu48098- Posts : 198
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You are way off in your take....I have my own way to look at things. Not really sure what you are referring against Garry and me, nothing personal against garry or anyone. I will reiterate that I have no agenda and will comment if something peeks my interest...TMA1 wrote:
At first I thought you guys were just voicing dissent in good faith which is always good to cut down on cognitive dissonance. But you and gbu seem to feed on one another and there is a bitter sharpness and unwholesomeness to the posts you guys make. Especially a few days back with how you guys treated garryb. You both have made some great posts so I dont get it. Please cool it.
Singular_Transform- Posts : 1032
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SeigSoloyvov wrote:
I read that article over a year ago.
That said, no evidence any submarine was affected by what happened.
I have yet to see evidence it was. Only people like yourself making the claim without any facts behind it.
on the other hand....I can find plenty of Russian submarine accidents has a result or incompetence.
Half of the Virginias built up to 2018 had hull that failed cold temperature tests.
Means they can't operate in Arctic conditions, or if any affected ship had arctic voyages with surfacing in ice then the given ship is not safe to operate any more, or would have severe restrictions regards of diving deep.
USA has serious accidents and near miss as well, it is simple luck and very low operation requirements to not to have anything more serious.
gbu48098- Posts : 198
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Pretty serious claims on a country that played hide and seek during cold war one upping each other....no navy releases this kind of operation, not sure which tabloids you are reading,Singular_Transform wrote:
Half of the Virginias built up to 2018 had hull that failed cold temperature tests.
Means they can't operate in Arctic conditions, or if any affected ship had arctic voyages with surfacing in ice then the given ship is not safe to operate any more, or would have severe restrictions regards of diving deep.
USA has serious accidents and near miss as well, it is simple luck and very low operation requirements to not to have anything more serious.
SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3900
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"Half of the Virginias built up to 2018 had hull that failed cold temperature tests."
This first line alone shows you don't know what you're talking about and making baseless claims.
There is more than one submarine metal fabrication plant in the US, so that half number is complete horse shit only repeated by people looking to make shit up.
ONCE MORE, I have yet to see ONE SHREAD of proof from people like you said metal was used wide-scale or even had any remote effect.
Another BS claim you made, Virginia do and have operated in the artic and there is no data anything you are saying about deep diving restrictions being true.
Just false statements form pro-russian fanboys, Show me proof not "well Imma take this fact out of my ass".
As for accidents sure we have some but they are super rare and if you wanna go there the Russians have lost droves of men far far far far above the US in submarine accidents, so yeah I wouldn't go there.
Also did you honestly just say "low operational requirements?" Bruh are you serious
we operate more submarines then the Russian and operate them all around the globe and we haven't had five percent of the **** ups the Russians have had.
Get off them drugs buddy they are clearly messing with your head.
This first line alone shows you don't know what you're talking about and making baseless claims.
There is more than one submarine metal fabrication plant in the US, so that half number is complete horse shit only repeated by people looking to make shit up.
ONCE MORE, I have yet to see ONE SHREAD of proof from people like you said metal was used wide-scale or even had any remote effect.
Another BS claim you made, Virginia do and have operated in the artic and there is no data anything you are saying about deep diving restrictions being true.
Just false statements form pro-russian fanboys, Show me proof not "well Imma take this fact out of my ass".
As for accidents sure we have some but they are super rare and if you wanna go there the Russians have lost droves of men far far far far above the US in submarine accidents, so yeah I wouldn't go there.
Also did you honestly just say "low operational requirements?" Bruh are you serious
we operate more submarines then the Russian and operate them all around the globe and we haven't had five percent of the **** ups the Russians have had.Get off them drugs buddy they are clearly messing with your head.
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Singular_Transform- Posts : 1032
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SeigSoloyvov wrote:"Half of the Virginias built up to 2018 had hull that failed cold temperature tests."
This first line alone shows you don't know what you're talking about and making baseless claims.
There is more than one submarine metal fabrication plant in the US, so that half number is complete horse shit only repeated by people looking to make shit up.
ONCE MORE, I have yet to see ONE SHREAD of proof from people like you said metal was used wide-scale or even had any remote effect.
Another BS claim you made, Virginia do and have operated in the artic and there is no data anything you are saying about deep diving restrictions being true.
Just false statements form pro-russian fanboys, Show me proof not "well Imma take this fact out of my ass".
As for accidents sure we have some but they are super rare and if you wanna go there the Russians have lost droves of men far far far far above the US in submarine accidents, so yeah I wouldn't go there.
Also did you honestly just say "low operational requirements?" Bruh are you serious
Get off them drugs buddy they are clearly messing with your head.
Wow, the drill sergant did a very good job at the USA military on you : )
So, let star:
https://news.yahoo.com/feds-company-provided-subpar-steel-203534466.html
"For decades, the Navy’s leading supplier of high-strength steel for submarines provided subpar metal because one of the company’s longtime employees falsified lab results — putting sailors at greater risk in the event of collisions or other impacts, federal prosecutors said in court filings Monday."
https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2020/06/15/feds-say-company-provided-subpar-steel-for-us-navy-subs/
"The criminal complaint said investigators were able to compare internal company records with test results that Thomas certified. The analysis showed that she fabricated the results of 240 productions of steel, representing nearly half of the high-yield steel Bradken produced for Navy submarines — often toughness tests conducted at negative-100 degrees Fahrenheit, the complaint said."
And finally, a Virginia as surfacing throught the ice:
https://www.military.com/video/forces/navy/virginia-class-sub-surfaces-arctic/3398996706001
USA submarine went into underwater mountain, sheer luck to have one front ballast tank left to surface :
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a24158/uss-san-francisco-mountain-incident/
Collision with another USA naval ship , tower severly damaged :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Hartford_and_USS_New_Orleans_collision
Any more groundless claim from you ?
you are very time consuming, your posts are typical Gish gallops, throwing around mountains of low quality , groundless informations.
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kvs- Posts : 15857
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TMA1 wrote:
I'm a phone poster and frankly tho I am a millennial I am a boomer when it comes to tech. Is there a way to get auto translate to work on phones? Cannot get it to switch to english
Unfortunately it is not available in English. The makers claim they have translated videos somewhere but I have never looked for
them and they are likely months out of date.
The video lists off the missile systems the Yassen-M carries and their quantity and this makes the Viriginia look like some sort of joke.
I don't really see what the Virginia is good for. Maybe sending some Tomahawks at 3rd world targets, but it does not have a design that
serves its nominal purpose.
As for the quote above of some morons yammering that there are too few crew on the Yassen. Well, morons are gonna moron.
If you don't have the money and the tech, you use meat puppets. So the half-size crew on the Russian sub is a strong
indicator of superior design and technology. Both revolve around the level of automation. Something that the USA with its endless
chest thumping chauvinism claims to have the monopoly on compared to "those Asiatics".
At least one poster will accuse me of "bashing".
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SeigSoloyvov- Posts : 3900
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1. "There is no allegation in the court documents that any submarine parts failed"
Assuming some of it was used that article disproves your claim instantly. That article also claims that a test wasn't performed that didn't mean the metal was bad just that a standard test wasn't followed, again NOT A SINGLE ounce of proof any performance was affected produce that proof.
2. "Bradken produced" Learn English in that yard only again submarine metal is produced in more than one plant. Additional US submarines go through trails to ensure they are up to operational standards before they are commissioned. There was no problem found with any Sub during these standard procedures all navies do. That alone shows there is no problem with the subs.
But of course, people like yourself wanna parrot and keep up this false narrative because you wanna bash the US. You lying and making shit up with that period.
3. LOL what a liar, there was a misjudgment on how thick that ice was. So you take one video out of context and try to use that to back up your bs claim? What a clown. Virginia's can go through the ice. But Virginia's aren't Ballistic missiles subs so even then there is no reason for them to surface. So trying to surface under the ice is completely pointless for them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9990wY1DEhk
4. You are clearly illiterate or completely ignored what I said, one of the two. I never said we haven't had any accidents learn to read, I just said they are rare and have resulted in little loss of life compared to the Russians who have had far more accidents and lost far far far more men in accidents. So you completely ignored what I said to bring this up, again clown.
Just never ceases to amaze me how detached from reality guys like you are on this website.
Assuming some of it was used that article disproves your claim instantly. That article also claims that a test wasn't performed that didn't mean the metal was bad just that a standard test wasn't followed, again NOT A SINGLE ounce of proof any performance was affected produce that proof.
2. "Bradken produced" Learn English in that yard only again submarine metal is produced in more than one plant. Additional US submarines go through trails to ensure they are up to operational standards before they are commissioned. There was no problem found with any Sub during these standard procedures all navies do. That alone shows there is no problem with the subs.
But of course, people like yourself wanna parrot and keep up this false narrative because you wanna bash the US. You lying and making shit up with that period.
3. LOL what a liar, there was a misjudgment on how thick that ice was. So you take one video out of context and try to use that to back up your bs claim? What a clown. Virginia's can go through the ice. But Virginia's aren't Ballistic missiles subs so even then there is no reason for them to surface. So trying to surface under the ice is completely pointless for them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9990wY1DEhk
4. You are clearly illiterate or completely ignored what I said, one of the two. I never said we haven't had any accidents learn to read, I just said they are rare and have resulted in little loss of life compared to the Russians who have had far more accidents and lost far far far more men in accidents. So you completely ignored what I said to bring this up, again clown.
Just never ceases to amaze me how detached from reality guys like you are on this website.
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