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ALAMONot only the radar ranges. Functionally all Ukraine is covered with a distance of 400km ranged SAMs. What is left is a wild territory on the Romanian border...
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The Situation in the Ukraine. #30
ALAMO- Posts : 7426
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GarryB- Posts : 40415
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Russia don't need to be an empire ,but at the same time , Russia need to stop those empires ,
seeking to break Russia in many parts and financing terrorist ,nazis and arming them to attack
their military and those nations that Russia placed in danger , by making an alliance with them ,because any nation that allies Russia - that develops close relations with them will be automatically
placed on the hit list.
Russia does not need to stop any empire, Russia should just concentrate on itself and its own wants and needs and its own development and progress.
If the US and EU want to piss away trillions of dollars on trying to break Russia well Russia can't stop them, besides wasting that money on trying to hurt Russia will do more to damage the US and EU than anything Russia could do to hurt them.
They are ignoring their own problems and expending energy on countries that are not enemies, so their real problems will only get worse.
The more nazis and terrorists and racist idiots the west gets into bed... it is hurting the west more than it hurts Russia...
Russia does not need to destroy the west... the west is destroying the west just fine on its own.
I rather suspect at some stage they will realise many of their problems come from themselves and not from Russia or China, and perhaps they might overcome their own racism and bigotry and man up to the fact that they are wrong again... but wont hold my breath.
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Cowboy's daughter- Posts : 1894
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White House freezes Ukraine military package that includes lethal weapons
Officials prepped $100 million worth of arms as Russia massed troops on the border, then put it on pause as the Biden-Putin summit approached.
Despite the military aid and the presence of NATO troops in the country to train Ukrainian military units, Kyiv likely has a long road ahead before it can join the transatlantic alliance.
But the positive noises the alliance makes can sometimes lead to awkward moments.
During the NATO summit on Monday, Zelensky tweeted that NATO leaders had “confirmed” his country would become a member, reading boilerplate language in the annual communique as a confirmation of his country’s status.
Asked about the country’s admission status, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg pumped the brakes in a Tuesday news conference. “Ukraine is an aspirant country,” Stoltenberg said. “We provide support to them, especially to continue to modernize and refine their defense and security institutions, civilian-political control over their security services, and not least fighting corruption.”
Biden also stuck to the traditional NATO line during his own press conference after the summit, saying the U.S. would “do all that we can to put Ukraine in the position to be able to continue to resist Russian physical aggression.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/18/white-house-ukraine-military-lethal-weapons-495169
Officials prepped $100 million worth of arms as Russia massed troops on the border, then put it on pause as the Biden-Putin summit approached.
Despite the military aid and the presence of NATO troops in the country to train Ukrainian military units, Kyiv likely has a long road ahead before it can join the transatlantic alliance.
But the positive noises the alliance makes can sometimes lead to awkward moments.
During the NATO summit on Monday, Zelensky tweeted that NATO leaders had “confirmed” his country would become a member, reading boilerplate language in the annual communique as a confirmation of his country’s status.
Asked about the country’s admission status, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg pumped the brakes in a Tuesday news conference. “Ukraine is an aspirant country,” Stoltenberg said. “We provide support to them, especially to continue to modernize and refine their defense and security institutions, civilian-political control over their security services, and not least fighting corruption.”
Biden also stuck to the traditional NATO line during his own press conference after the summit, saying the U.S. would “do all that we can to put Ukraine in the position to be able to continue to resist Russian physical aggression.”
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/18/white-house-ukraine-military-lethal-weapons-495169
JohninMK- Posts : 15574
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Cowboy's daughter wrote:White House freezes Ukraine military package that includes lethal weapons
Officials prepped $100 million worth of arms as Russia massed troops on the border, then put it on pause as the Biden-Putin summit approached.
Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
18h
A military aid package to Ukraine, including SHORAD, small arms, and AT weapons, worth $100 million has been put on hold by the WH.
However, the US has provided 2 aid packages in 2021 with C-UAS, EW, counter-battery radar, comm and CASEVAC equipment.
https://politico.com/news/2021/06/1
Cowboy's daughter likes this post
JohninMK- Posts : 15574
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Update from ZH
Authored by Dave DeCamp via AntiWar.com,
On Friday, the White House denied a Politico report that said the Biden administration temporarily paused a $100 million in additional military assistance for Ukraine. White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said the idea that the US halted the aid is "nonsense."
"The idea that we have held back security assistance to Ukraine is nonsense. Just last week — in the run-up to the US-Russia Summit — we provided a $150 million package of security assistance, including lethal assistance. We have now provided the entire amount appropriated by Congress through the Ukraine security assistance initiative," Psaki said in a statement.
Ukrainian military forces, via Newsweek
The 2021 Pentagon budget allocated $275 million for Ukraine this year, which the US has already released. The Politico report said the US prepared an additional $100 million in lethal military aid in response to recent tensions between Ukraine and Russia. Sources said the additional assistance was put on hold after Russia withdrew troops from the region.
Psaki acknowledged that additional funds were allocated for Ukraine but said it was contingent on a further "incursion" from Russia. "We have also prepared contingency funds in the event of a further Russian incursion into Ukraine," she said.
The news about the additional aid came after President Biden met with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday. Psaki said Biden told Putin that the US "will stand unwavering in support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity."
Authored by Dave DeCamp via AntiWar.com,
On Friday, the White House denied a Politico report that said the Biden administration temporarily paused a $100 million in additional military assistance for Ukraine. White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki said the idea that the US halted the aid is "nonsense."
"The idea that we have held back security assistance to Ukraine is nonsense. Just last week — in the run-up to the US-Russia Summit — we provided a $150 million package of security assistance, including lethal assistance. We have now provided the entire amount appropriated by Congress through the Ukraine security assistance initiative," Psaki said in a statement.
Ukrainian military forces, via Newsweek
The 2021 Pentagon budget allocated $275 million for Ukraine this year, which the US has already released. The Politico report said the US prepared an additional $100 million in lethal military aid in response to recent tensions between Ukraine and Russia. Sources said the additional assistance was put on hold after Russia withdrew troops from the region.
Psaki acknowledged that additional funds were allocated for Ukraine but said it was contingent on a further "incursion" from Russia. "We have also prepared contingency funds in the event of a further Russian incursion into Ukraine," she said.
The news about the additional aid came after President Biden met with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Wednesday. Psaki said Biden told Putin that the US "will stand unwavering in support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity."
Cowboy's daughter likes this post
GarryB- Posts : 40415
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Hahahaha... right now Ukraine is useful as a "counter to Russia", but if the US and EU decide that China is the bigger threat that could easily change and the Ukraine, no longer useful, will be dropped like so many important allies of the past...
In the mean time the US funds the US MIC by paying the US MIC to send weapons to the Ukraine at "aide".
Keep pushing those buttons... the more you push Russia away the more it will look to China and other places for trade and ties.
Russia is a growing and developing economy... why would the west want to be part of that when they can make friends with broken collapsing Ukraine... I am sure the American people will greatly benefit getting to pay upkeep on the Ukraine instead of upkeep at home...
In the mean time the US funds the US MIC by paying the US MIC to send weapons to the Ukraine at "aide".
Keep pushing those buttons... the more you push Russia away the more it will look to China and other places for trade and ties.
Russia is a growing and developing economy... why would the west want to be part of that when they can make friends with broken collapsing Ukraine... I am sure the American people will greatly benefit getting to pay upkeep on the Ukraine instead of upkeep at home...
par far- Posts : 3495
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Join date : 2014-06-26
"Biden White House ditches Ukraine military project"
par far- Posts : 3495
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Join date : 2014-06-26
JohninMK wrote:Cowboy's daughter wrote:White House freezes Ukraine military package that includes lethal weapons
Officials prepped $100 million worth of arms as Russia massed troops on the border, then put it on pause as the Biden-Putin summit approached.
Rob Lee
@RALee85
·
18h
A military aid package to Ukraine, including SHORAD, small arms, and AT weapons, worth $100 million has been put on hold by the WH.
However, the US has provided 2 aid packages in 2021 with C-UAS, EW, counter-battery radar, comm and CASEVAC equipment.
https://politico.com/news/2021/06/1
This was more likely because the US wanted the US-Russia summit.
kvs- Posts : 15808
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Join date : 2014-09-11
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Arms shipments to Banderastan are not going to save it. It amounts to more corruption and siphoning of Ukr money offshore.
The performance of the Ukr army and paramilitaries in 2014 and even recently demonstrates that lack of equipment is not their
problem.
The real story is the implosion of the Ukr economy. It is likely less than 50% of what it was in 2013 today. Some members here
scoffed at the initial figures in 2014/15 showing a 30% decline in GDP. These members are delusional. The coup regime took a
while to fully purge all levels of government and the statistics service was still reporting the truth before they were purged and
started to put out full on fabricated data on Ukraine's economic situation. Ukraine's alleged agrarian superpower status is a total
fiction and it has to import produce. Exporting soil is not a sign of good economic conditions. The only reason that there are no
hordes of unemployed that are visible today in Ukraine is because they have run off to Europe and Russia to work and send money
back to their families. The official statistics on the population of Ukraine are BS. They likely have around 30 million people and
not the 37 to 40 million that they claim.
The performance of the Ukr army and paramilitaries in 2014 and even recently demonstrates that lack of equipment is not their
problem.
The real story is the implosion of the Ukr economy. It is likely less than 50% of what it was in 2013 today. Some members here
scoffed at the initial figures in 2014/15 showing a 30% decline in GDP. These members are delusional. The coup regime took a
while to fully purge all levels of government and the statistics service was still reporting the truth before they were purged and
started to put out full on fabricated data on Ukraine's economic situation. Ukraine's alleged agrarian superpower status is a total
fiction and it has to import produce. Exporting soil is not a sign of good economic conditions. The only reason that there are no
hordes of unemployed that are visible today in Ukraine is because they have run off to Europe and Russia to work and send money
back to their families. The official statistics on the population of Ukraine are BS. They likely have around 30 million people and
not the 37 to 40 million that they claim.
GarryB and JohninMK like this post
flamming_python- Posts : 9516
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Here's a public survey from Nikolayev, the home province of the Nikolayev shipyards that some of you guys were deliberating on earlier as to how much Russia should invest into them when it 'gets them back'
[zombiefied]Half the people on the street either expressed support for entering NATO directly or otherwise considered them their allies[/zombiefied]
[zombiefied]Half the people on the street either expressed support for entering NATO directly or otherwise considered them their allies[/zombiefied]
kvs likes this post
Rodion_Romanovic- Posts : 2633
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Probably at least 50% of the population of Odessa, Nicolaev and Kherson is irrecoverably zombified, especially among the under 30 years old.flamming_python wrote:Here's a public survey from Nikolayev, the home province of the Nikolayev shipyards that some of you guys were deliberating on earlier as to how much Russia should invest into them when it 'gets them back'
[zombiefied]Half the people on the street either expressed support for entering NATO directly or otherwise considered them their allies[/zombiefied]
I never said Russia needs to get this kind of people as citizens. Since they like so much NATO, they can go in Poland or in Canada.
Concerning what I wrote in other threads about Odessa and Nikolaev, I also would like Nova Roma (Costantinopoli), Antiochia and Trebisonda to be free from the Turks but it is not like I would like the current inhabitants to be the largest population in those places once it will be free from the neo-ottoman control
Hannibal Barca likes this post
kvs- Posts : 15808
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Boris Johnson is Zelensky's bitch.
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Cowboy's daughter- Posts : 1894
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Zelensky admits failed intelligence operation to seize Russian mercenaries
By Illia Ponomarenko. Published June 25. Updated June 25 at 8:21 pm
Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky has brought even more confusion and eye-raising discrepancies about the so-called Wagner scandal, which has haunted the country’s leadership for nearly a year.
In his interview with 1+1 channel aired on June 25, Zelensky foggily admitted that the alleged special operation to arrest Russian mercenaries with Warner Group in July 2020 had been contemplated and planned, but not by Ukraine, contrary to his previous staement.
“It was surely not our operation,” Zelensky said. “This operation was a brainchild of, shall we say, other countries.”
The president did not specify the countries he was talking about.
“The fact that Ukraine was being lured hard into this issue is true,” he said. “And regarding the fact that this did not happen… thank God, we acted at our own discretion.”
According to numerous reports in media, Ukrainian intelligence operatives, allegedly supported by the United States and Turkey, planned to stage an emergency on board a passenger jet transporting Russian militants between Minsk and Istanbul for their new deployment overseas.
The plane was reportedly to make a forced landing midway its course in Ukraine, following which Ukrainian intelligence operatives were to detain the mercenaries, who previously fought against the Ukrainian forces in the Donbas.
But the mercenaries never got on their plane from Minsk to Istanbul. Instead, 33 militants were arrested by Belarusian police in Minsk on July 29, 2020, the day before their flight.
According to Ukrainian authorities, many of the arrested were involved in Russia’s war in Donbas and were wanted on terrorist charges. Ukraine asked the Belarusian dictator Aleksandr Lukashenko to hand the militants over, but instead, Lukashenko sent them to Russia, saving them.
That’s when a scandal broke out in the media.
Numerous reports quoted intelligence insiders suggesting that the operation was deliberately sabotaged by an official in Zelensky’s inner circle. Fingers were pointed at chief of staff Andriy Yermak, who allegedly did so to avoid further confrontation with Russia.
Zelensky and Yermak vehemently denied that such an operation was ever in the plans, calling it all a Russian propaganda plot.
In the June 26 interview, Zelensky for the first time admitted that there indeed existed a plan to seize the mercenaries from a plane flying over Ukraine.
In the same interview, Zelensky also compared the operation with the case of Roman Protasevich, the Belarusian opposition journalist who was arrested on May 23 after Belarusian authorities forced a passenger jet with Protasevich on board to land in Minsk.
The Belarusian regime’s move triggered a strong international condemnation and sweeping sanctions. According to Zelensky, Ukraine could have faced international isolation of a similar kind in the case of the Wagner operation’s success.
Zelensky also vaguely told about his last phone conversation with Lukashenko, which, according to the Ukrainian president, took place as part of the Wagner controversy.
“When the Wagner members were in Belarus, I called (Lukashenko),” Zelensky said. “I told him, I forewarned him. I said ‘I am ready to provide you with all information regarding these people. We have already got their names.”
Zelensky did not specify if he called Lukashenko after the mercenaries were arrested, or if he called to inform Lukashenko that the mercenaries were in Minsk — therefore triggering their detention and extradition to Russia.
After the interview aired, Mykhailo Podolyak, a communications adviser to Zelensky’s chief of staff, had to clarify in a comment to BBC Ukraine that Zelensky had this conversation with Lukashenko days after the mercenaries were arrested, in a bid to request that the militants be handed over to Ukraine.
Speaking of Yermak, who is believed by many to be the one to have reportedly failed the operation, Zelensky insisted that he trusts the senior member of his administration.
“SBU security service and military intelligence have zero questions to Yermak,” he said.
https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/zelensky-admits-failed-intelligence-operation-to-seize-russian-mercenaries-after-denying-it-existed.html
By Illia Ponomarenko. Published June 25. Updated June 25 at 8:21 pm
Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky has brought even more confusion and eye-raising discrepancies about the so-called Wagner scandal, which has haunted the country’s leadership for nearly a year.
In his interview with 1+1 channel aired on June 25, Zelensky foggily admitted that the alleged special operation to arrest Russian mercenaries with Warner Group in July 2020 had been contemplated and planned, but not by Ukraine, contrary to his previous staement.
“It was surely not our operation,” Zelensky said. “This operation was a brainchild of, shall we say, other countries.”
The president did not specify the countries he was talking about.
“The fact that Ukraine was being lured hard into this issue is true,” he said. “And regarding the fact that this did not happen… thank God, we acted at our own discretion.”
According to numerous reports in media, Ukrainian intelligence operatives, allegedly supported by the United States and Turkey, planned to stage an emergency on board a passenger jet transporting Russian militants between Minsk and Istanbul for their new deployment overseas.
The plane was reportedly to make a forced landing midway its course in Ukraine, following which Ukrainian intelligence operatives were to detain the mercenaries, who previously fought against the Ukrainian forces in the Donbas.
But the mercenaries never got on their plane from Minsk to Istanbul. Instead, 33 militants were arrested by Belarusian police in Minsk on July 29, 2020, the day before their flight.
According to Ukrainian authorities, many of the arrested were involved in Russia’s war in Donbas and were wanted on terrorist charges. Ukraine asked the Belarusian dictator Aleksandr Lukashenko to hand the militants over, but instead, Lukashenko sent them to Russia, saving them.
That’s when a scandal broke out in the media.
Numerous reports quoted intelligence insiders suggesting that the operation was deliberately sabotaged by an official in Zelensky’s inner circle. Fingers were pointed at chief of staff Andriy Yermak, who allegedly did so to avoid further confrontation with Russia.
Zelensky and Yermak vehemently denied that such an operation was ever in the plans, calling it all a Russian propaganda plot.
In the June 26 interview, Zelensky for the first time admitted that there indeed existed a plan to seize the mercenaries from a plane flying over Ukraine.
In the same interview, Zelensky also compared the operation with the case of Roman Protasevich, the Belarusian opposition journalist who was arrested on May 23 after Belarusian authorities forced a passenger jet with Protasevich on board to land in Minsk.
The Belarusian regime’s move triggered a strong international condemnation and sweeping sanctions. According to Zelensky, Ukraine could have faced international isolation of a similar kind in the case of the Wagner operation’s success.
Zelensky also vaguely told about his last phone conversation with Lukashenko, which, according to the Ukrainian president, took place as part of the Wagner controversy.
“When the Wagner members were in Belarus, I called (Lukashenko),” Zelensky said. “I told him, I forewarned him. I said ‘I am ready to provide you with all information regarding these people. We have already got their names.”
Zelensky did not specify if he called Lukashenko after the mercenaries were arrested, or if he called to inform Lukashenko that the mercenaries were in Minsk — therefore triggering their detention and extradition to Russia.
After the interview aired, Mykhailo Podolyak, a communications adviser to Zelensky’s chief of staff, had to clarify in a comment to BBC Ukraine that Zelensky had this conversation with Lukashenko days after the mercenaries were arrested, in a bid to request that the militants be handed over to Ukraine.
Speaking of Yermak, who is believed by many to be the one to have reportedly failed the operation, Zelensky insisted that he trusts the senior member of his administration.
“SBU security service and military intelligence have zero questions to Yermak,” he said.
https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/zelensky-admits-failed-intelligence-operation-to-seize-russian-mercenaries-after-denying-it-existed.html
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kvs- Posts : 15808
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flamming_python wrote:Here's a public survey from Nikolayev, the home province of the Nikolayev shipyards that some of you guys were deliberating on earlier as to how much Russia should invest into them when it 'gets them back'
9NIV1m5EW18
[zombiefied]Half the people on the street either expressed support for entering NATO directly or otherwise considered them their allies[/zombiefied]
Hope always dies last. These losers are going to expect NATzO to be their sugar daddy until they croak. And even their children will expect the
same. Russia needs to put Banderastan into decades long quarantine. If some regions ripen and want to exit this delusional toilet, then Russia
should help them gain independence. Over time the ludicrous Bolshevik and their western patron construct called Ukraine will fall apart. Let
Halychyna and Ivano-Frankivsk form mighty anti-Russian bastions of "tse Evropa".
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miketheterrible- Posts : 7383
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It's not hard to go around, ask the right people the right questions. The thing is, youth are always retarded. But perceptions change quick and we have seen that in Russia where only a few years saw the youth go from 60% in favor of the west to like 24% in the youth of Russia.
They barely have money these Ukrainians and their economy is literally on a lifeline from NATO and IMF. Eventually their lives are gonna inch a little bit worst and they will realize just blaming their government isn't enough anymore.
KVS and I grew up in the NATO hayday of propaganda and we realized that it's a shit organization.
They barely have money these Ukrainians and their economy is literally on a lifeline from NATO and IMF. Eventually their lives are gonna inch a little bit worst and they will realize just blaming their government isn't enough anymore.
KVS and I grew up in the NATO hayday of propaganda and we realized that it's a shit organization.
kvs- Posts : 15808
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miketheterrible wrote:It's not hard to go around, ask the right people the right questions. The thing is, youth are always retarded. But perceptions change quick and we have seen that in Russia where only a few years saw the youth go from 60% in favor of the west to like 24% in the youth of Russia.
They barely have money these Ukrainians and their economy is literally on a lifeline from NATO and IMF. Eventually their lives are gonna inch a little bit worst and they will realize just blaming their government isn't enough anymore.
KVS and I grew up in the NATO hayday of propaganda and we realized that it's a shit organization.
Indeed. I have to admit that such street polls are fake. They are propaganda theater where no proper random sampling is done. We have
people not afraid of repercussions, including death, since they spout the regime propaganda narratives and ideals actually allowing themselves
to be filmed. There is a climate of fear in Banderastan which is enforced by Azov type thugs everywhere. We saw this when Crimea
started to go its own way, the regime dispatched trainloads of thugs to teach Crimeans how to love Stepan Bandera. But Crimeans beat
this shit back to Pukeraine. Kharkov is an example where the thugs triumphed in suppressing street protestors and helped establish
regime control.
The climate of fear in Banderastan is one of the prime reasons why the Kharkov tank factories stopped functioning. Skilled workers are
not going to eat shit sandwiches pushed down their throat by nazionalist meat heads. The Khuyiv regime is reaping what it sows.
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kvs- Posts : 15808
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Banderastan is degenerating in an orgy of catabolic consumption. More illegally harvested timber sold in Europe originates
from Ukraine than the rest of the world. And 78% of all wood harvesting in Ukraine is illegal. That is an evaluation from a western NGO,
Earthsight, and not Kremlin propaganda. In the process Banderastan is quickly losing arable land to desertification and topsoil ablation
through winds. Removing forests and tree breaks specifically planted to reduce the wind fetch (speed of surface winds is proportional
to the obstacle free span). But these forests and wind breaks are all the legacy of the Soviet "occupation", so modern "free Ukraine"
knows better and will eradicate the Soviet legacy. And hopefully itself in the process.
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kvs- Posts : 15808
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From my personal experience, gang thuggery is a cultural feature of western Ukrainians. They are radicalized zealots on the Catholic-Orthodox
front. Their whole history pivots around this religious and civilization divide. The west has been converting eastern Slavs into cannon
fodder for centuries. The training of Ukrs in the UK, Canada and the USA at the end of WWII to fight the USSR is the same old story.
I pity the sane Ukrainians living in this Maidan toilet. I think the more skilled ones have left already. The population figures for Ukraine
a pure fiction.
front. Their whole history pivots around this religious and civilization divide. The west has been converting eastern Slavs into cannon
fodder for centuries. The training of Ukrs in the UK, Canada and the USA at the end of WWII to fight the USSR is the same old story.
I pity the sane Ukrainians living in this Maidan toilet. I think the more skilled ones have left already. The population figures for Ukraine
a pure fiction.
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Hole- Posts : 11095
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Coming back to the street poll. 50% are openly for NATO, which means that half of the population is against it. Not bad if you consider the possible treatment by nazi thugs if you give the "wrong" answer.
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kvs- Posts : 15808
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Hole wrote:Coming back to the street poll. 50% are openly for NATO, which means that half of the population is against it. Not bad if you consider the possible treatment by nazi thugs if you give the "wrong" answer.
This is the real story. Even with all the intimidation and dirty tricks they have not managed to go much past 40% that proper opinion polls established
they had in 2010. That is pathetic and an indication that Banderastan is not going to last. The Maidan project is already failing and the Kiev regime
does not have the luxury of time to wait for NATzO to make the invitation.
Biden's chicken shit response over the last few weeks must be causing the regime to stain its undies.
flamming_python- Posts : 9516
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Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Probably at least 50% of the population of Odessa, Nicolaev and Kherson is irrecoverably zombified, especially among the under 30 years old.flamming_python wrote:Here's a public survey from Nikolayev, the home province of the Nikolayev shipyards that some of you guys were deliberating on earlier as to how much Russia should invest into them when it 'gets them back'
[zombiefied]Half the people on the street either expressed support for entering NATO directly or otherwise considered them their allies[/zombiefied]
I never said Russia needs to get this kind of people as citizens. Since they like so much NATO, they can go in Poland or in Canada.
Concerning what I wrote in other threads about Odessa and Nikolaev, I also would like Nova Roma (Costantinopoli), Antiochia and Trebisonda to be free from the Turks but it is not like I would like the current inhabitants to be the largest population in those places once it will be free from the neo-ottoman control
None of these eastern cities and accompanying territories belonged to any kind of historical Ukraine. Apart from maybe today's Dneprpetrovsk region.
All these lands were colonized by the Russian Empire, first by establishing fortresses to protect against Nogay and Crimean Tatar raids, allowing the lands to be settled, and then moving further and capturing Ottoman fortresses and so on in Odessa, finally establishing dominion over the territory. The settlers were mostly Ukrainians, but there was no Ukrainian or Ukrainian Rus' principalities by this point, the only Orthodox Christian power in the area was Russia.
So all this Ukrainian patriotism here looks funny, and as people have mentioned mentioned, it only gets more absurd and entrenched with each new generation.
But today these lands hold questionable value for Russia, even if the people living here were all for it. And if the people are at least half against it, then the territory holds no value. Kick out, and then settle with whom exactly? Russia itself has a falling population, who are busy inside Russia itself, moving to prosperous cities and towns away from economically depressed ones. And these eastern Ukrainian territories are the most economically depressed of all - who will move there?
Therefore aside from just the moral and legal questions about throwing out the present population, in practice there is nobody else to replace them anyway.
JohninMK- Posts : 15574
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Join date : 2015-06-16
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Agree but joining NATO would have no economic benefit for the general population. They need to join the EU for that and, as Brussels isn't totally stupid, that ain't going to happen anytime soon.kvs wrote: The Maidan project is already failing and the Kiev regime
does not have the luxury of time to wait for NATzO to make the invitation.
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Cowboy's daughter- Posts : 1894
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OSCE
Daily Report 153/2021
3 July 2021
On 1 July, in the north-western part of Horlivka, a woman (in her fifties) told the Mission that
on the morning of 27 June, while at home with her husband, she had heard multiple explosions
near her house. She said that when she had tried to close her house’s front door, which she said
had been opened by the blasts of the explosions, she had felt blood on one of her legs. She
added that her husband had taken her to the house’s basement and had bandaged a wound to
her hip, after which an ambulance had taken her to a hospital in Horlivka where she had
undergone surgery to remove shrapnel from her hip.
On the same day, the SMM saw a medical certificate issued by a hospital in Horlivka, according
to which the injured woman had been admitted to the hospital on 27 June due to a shrapnel
wound to her hip for which she had undergone surgery.
On the same day, medical staff at the abovementioned hospital refused to provide the Mission
with information about the injured woman, citing “lack of permission” from those in control.
(See below.)*
Indication of military and military-type presence in the security zone
The SMM saw five armoured combat vehicles and an anti-aircraft gun in governmentcontrolled areas of Luhansk region, including near residential areas, as well as a probable antiaircraft gun in a non-government-controlled area of Luhansk region and eight armoured combat
vehicles in non-government-controlled areas of both Donetsk and Luhansk regions, including
in a compound and a residential area. (For further information, see the table below.)
https://www.osce.org/files/2021-07-03%20Daily%20Report.pdf?itok=30233
PhSt- Posts : 1435
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But today these lands hold questionable value for Russia, even if the people living here were all for it. And if the people are at least half against it, then the territory holds no value.
I do not understand why some people here do not see any territorial gains by Russia as beneficial. The US and China for example, wouldn't reach their status now if they were the size of Tuvalu. Any resisting population can be brainwashed into submission, look at Chechnya, or as in the case of Ukraine, ethnic Russians being brainwashed into thinking they belong to a different set of ethnicity called Ukrainians.
In the near future, I'd like to see Russia reincorporate Belarus, Ukraine and Kazakhstan into its national territory, I believe these territorial gains will allow Russia to build a stronger foundation for its continued existence for many centuries to come.
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kvs- Posts : 15808
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PhSt wrote:
But today these lands hold questionable value for Russia, even if the people living here were all for it. And if the people are at least half against it, then the territory holds no value.
I do not understand why some people here do not see any territorial gains by Russia as beneficial. The US and China for example, wouldn't reach their status now if they were the size of Tuvalu. Any resisting population can be brainwashed into submission, look at Chechnya, or as in the case of Ukraine, ethnic Russians being brainwashed into thinking they belong to a different set of ethnicity called Ukrainians.
In the near future, I'd like to see Russia reincorporate Belarus, Ukraine and Kazakhstan into its national territory, I believe these territorial gains will allow Russia to build a stronger foundation for its continued existence for many centuries to come.
Belorus as an independent state is an absurdity. Imagine if the basis for the partition of England (not UK) was the dialect difference between the east and the west.
There is not such thing as Belorussian history, it is Russian history. That is why Lukass-hanko crossed the line when he started acting like Ukr degenerates and
concocting fairy tales about Belorussian history.
Kazakhstan is another case where the borders do not conform to reality. About 40% of the population consists of Russians and Ukrainians in the north
who settled and developed those lands. Of course these people have no say because criminals pulled borders out of their asses in the good old days
of the USSR.
Ukraine needs to be partitioned. The south-east should return where it belongs and the modified part that will never see itself as part of Russia,
the western part, can join Poland or something. The Ukrainian state is marginally more legitimate than the Belorussian state. None of them would
have existed if it was not for both western and Bolshevik meddling.
But it remains a fact that Russia should not be invading and suppressing countries. This is simply moronic. The best way is to keep growing economically
while they flush down the toilet. The latter is guaranteed and so is the former. In a few decades they will be trying to cross the Russian border
like Latinos attempt to enter the USA.
(PS I did not dislike your post.)
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