The Situation in the Ukraine. #31

I highly doubt that Russia was caught with its pants down in 2014.  Ukria was heading into the toilet before 1990.   Kuchma
was a scumbag and he lubricated the orange monkey revolution in 2004.   It was all downhill from there.   Yanukovich was
not "Putin's man".   He was an idiot fence sitter like the clown in Kazakhstan.   When he was elected in 2010 he should have
cleaned house.   He had 60% of the population on his side.   Enough to act.   But he could not even remove the 10,000 thugs
who squatted on the Maidan in early 2014.   After the protestors were long gone.

It is extremely unlikely that Putin was not aware of such details since 1999.   Russia took the loss because the moron lemmings
in Ukria were drinking the rich west koolaid and were deluded that they would all be rich by joining the EU thanks to an irrelevant
association agreement.   I wonder how many of these idiots are still frothing at the mouth with this delusion in 2022.   It is not
Russia's job to wipe the asses of ignorant Ukrs.   This ignorance is Ukraine's tragedy.

Angry little men can't cope with the fact that dear leader did not act decisively in 2014, unlike say Kazakhstan in 2021/22, and got toyed around with by the Obama administration and Merkel.... consequences of which Russia is still paying today. But but remember.... "Western leaders are idiots" relative to "wise Kremlin men".

Now the situation is worse (as the enemy/rivals have had time to spread their poison and entrench themselves) while still in need of fixing... meaning the costs to do so are higher. Leadership failure complete.

But if you listen to idiots and propagandist, official and unofficial, you would come out with the impression that Ukraine is a non-factor to anything Russia. Yet, the situation is all consuming (yearly), the very threads of this conflict being the most active on this very forum, and it's, 7 years after the fact, the hot flashpoint of global geopolitics for the new year. But but.... "We don't need Ukraine"....    

When will folks come to terms with simple geopolitical realities... for god knows you can't push them too hard.... tantrums galore follow. More so with that fragile conditioning.

Prep:

US diplomats’ families ordered to leave Ukraine

https://www.rt.com/russia/546901-us-embassy-voluntary-departure/

The families of US diplomats have been ordered to leave Ukraine, while some embassy staffers were authorized to depart on a “voluntary” basis, according to an updated travel advisory that reiterated claims of a “continued threat of Russian military action.”

February 2022 shall be a very eventful month. Too much itching, for far too long.

The expected fate of the JAVELINs and NLAWs:
- In case there is a war: they will end up as trophies captured by the Russian or LNR/DNR troops
- In case there is no war: As the 404 economy sinks deeper, the various factions/clans/groups of Banderite Nazis and their respective supporting oligarchs will use them against each other when elections time comes

I'm increasingly of the view that there will be no major engagement. I may certainly be wrong.

miketheterrible wrote:I seriously hope they divert it to Kaliningrad. I heard that Russian region is expensive for utilities. So cheap gas flowing to it can do wonders.

They can just add splitter and you got two for the price of one

They are clearly trying to bait Russia so I expect the Kiev regime to follow the pattern and attack during the Olympics or just before.
But NATzO will not get what it wants. Anyone who thinks that Russia and LDNR were not preparing for this eventuality over the last
7+ years is out of touch. No amount of LAWs from the UK and Javelins from the US will enable Kiev regime forces to succeed on
the LDNR front. We are likely to see the LOS being pushed closer to the borders of the LDNR with the rest of Ukria. We may even
see Mariupol fall to the LDNR forces.

Western analysis of the "Russian invasion" is prattle from retards. This includes the hilarious claim that Russians can't operate in
mud and need for the ground to freeze. Or that Xi Jinping has called Putin to put a hold on the invasion because of the Olympics.

The U.S and its lackies have gotten a lot from their wishlist in Ukraine.

1. Killed the Eurasian Union, CSTO, Union State expansion West.
2. Used Russia's response to the coup to levy sanctions at an opportune time, hitting the Russian economy.
3. Planted, fertilized and grew hate for Russia in historical Russian territory (and wider Europe).
4. Made Russians kill Russians.
5. Shored up the Transatlantic allegiance away from the spread of Russian political/economic influence.
6. Torpedoed Russian energy projects
7. Forced Russia to finance an enemy regime in Kiev, to recognize an illegitimate coup etc... (forced and "voluntarily" merely being semantics).

I could go on... the list is definitely big.

Kinda a broken record at this point. Although considering the propaganda babble that some users here type each and every day it should be an sticky reminder.

Anyway, in other words, the U.S will get what they want... if conflict it's, localized to Ukraine, the U.S will get it, and with it, the many benefits, whether a small intervention or a large scale operation by Russia - both serve the same purpose. The only difference being that a large scale operation from Russia that takes over Kiev shuts their games for good. But as we know, fear is at such fever pitch in the Kremlin that we've seen the decision maker settle for less before; leaving the wound open for further aggravation (it's even marketed as the preferable and "wise" option by the official and unofficial propaganda organs).

IF nothing happens (as the other user suggests) and the status quo remains, Russia loses either way. The U.S will continue to prep Ukraine as a staging ground, little by little. The emergency shipments of weapons is a cakewalk appetizer and they can always ratchet up tensions at will, at any given time, or opportune time to invent any pretext for why "x should happen". Russia doesn't get security guarantees, nothing. In other words, a country thousand of miles away has effectively built a fence for Russia in the West. Kinda sad if it wasn't so brilliantly executed these last 20-30 years. The wise Kremlin men were impotent and indecisive to do anything about it - only crying to their local press. How did Putin say it: "We have nowhere else to go, to back up" .... that was the intention dummy. Biden can promise him no NATO for Ukraine, for Trump or whomever else to push for it after the old man is out office, while the ground is fertilized in the meantime for such. But they won't even honor Russia with a paper lie (security guarantee), like they did the Iranians with the JCPOA (breaking it after). INF scrapping apparently did not get the point across for the Kremlin.  Quite the enemy. There is a way to deal with such enemy.... but it takes balls and there is scarcity of such organs in some capitals around the world - lets just say politely due to COVID   .

His "eminence" Lavrov can continue to wait for the written response, plenty of week extensions available I've been told. After all, "We were promised we would get one".... rings a bell?   It's a pathological Russian leadership/cultural malaise at this point. But but... "we were promised not an inch East"... have some self respect chap - you don't just look like a fucking idiot saying it, you behave like one. Victim card doesn't garner respect in cutthroat circles.

Dear leader had his chance and window to maneuver in 2014, when things were fresh, after having ample warning from the Orange revolution. He miscalculated, massively, made blunder after blunder and now well, it's what it's. History books don't tell great tales of the weak.

ngl that looks pretty fun

GarryB wrote:On the India Russia thread Jhelb mentions several times about the crazy situation where young Indians and young Vietnamese people look to America like it is the best place on the planet, but as Jhelb mentions himself... the west couldn't give a shit about anyone but themselves... the youth of Russia have the exact same problem with both America and the EU...

I could care less about failed states like India and Vietnam.

Youth of Russia has a future in Russia. They only travel to the West because they are recruited by Western companies because there is a huge demand for Russian talent in the tech industry.

Unlike Russian, Vietnamese, Indians, Muslims and other people of colour travel to the West and Russia illegally. They are not invited.  Immigration has been the biggest cause behind the decline of the West. Travel to London, Paris, Berlin, New York, Toronto...what do you see? People of colour are in majority and the indigenous White population is in a minority. Even Israel has been run over by Jews of colour which is causing huge turmoil in society.

If the Kremlin doesn't want Russia to go down the drain like the West it should shut our borders permanently for any person of colour.

It is not so simple, NATO expansion will not trigger an iron curtain alone.

I think it would... an iron curtain is cessation of ties, and HATO and the US have been trying to do that for the last 20 years anyway... do as we tell you or we will cut you out of the international community... except their hold on the international community revolves around their control over a few international organisations, and by using this as a weapon against Russia and now China... as well as Iran and North Korea and Cuba and Yemen and Libya and Syria... they are diminishing the value of these organisations that are clearly not independent or really international.

Most of the Russian combined arms armies have moved to Yelnya, Voronezh, Rostov, and are now massing in Minsk and Grodno.

Russia did not issue the "non ultimatum" so that it could accept NATO expansion.

It is about HATO expansion, but not the Ukraine... the Russian response wont be an invasion of HATO or of Ukraine... it is more likely to be a new Berlin wall, but not for people but for ideas and trade and cooperation.

This might have very serious implications for Chinas silk road dreams but an anti China and anti Russia EU is not a destination worth servicing and helping.

Instead of linking the EU with Asia, it will simply become a trade route for countries that are part of it to trade with each other... goods from China don't have to go all the way to the EU and better access to Chinese markets for the rest of Asia and Russia will be a good thing anyway.... it will end up like the NSII pipeline... needed and potentially a huge money maker, but the jealous bitch on the end ruins it all for everyone else...

NATO expansion is over, NATO will remove its weapons from the Russian border, and it will be done by signing the "non ultimatum" or signing a big fat F You.

Actually that German Navy guy said it best.... all Russia is asking for is respect and a bit of respect for Putin too, which as he correctly pointed out they both deserve and it actually costs nothing at all.

But clearly not going to happen so move on.

It is time to invite Russia to join NATO - German media

Rather doubt they would actually be interested... it would mean converting everything from small arms to artillery and aviation etc etc to HATO standards... which in many cases are antiquated and obsolete, or just inferior to what they already have.

If your delusions were shared by Putin and Russian generals we would be in all out nuclear war right now. You need some psych meds.

He is saying the will be stationed there to counter those things, not that they will be immediately used.

Any future action by HATO will have counter moves too... Finland or Sweden joining HATO would result in a change of border forces in those regions and a change in trade relations with those and other HATO countries too.... they wont attack or invade anyone.

How about the Winter Olympics 2014 and 2022? In 2014 the Russians were hosting the event when they were caught with their pants down by the revolution in Kiev, the event limiting their courses of action. Fast forward 8 years and Putin is in Beijing both for the event and a major meeting with Xi. Do you think, with remarkable co-incidence Ukraine going hot again, they are going to be caught like that again?

Yeah, but you are missing the obvious point... 2008 Sakashvili shells Russian VDV peacekeeper troops during the opening ceremony of the olympic games... as you say 2014 during the olympics the west sneak attacks Ukraine... I am sure Russia and Putin will be extra weary when this games starts and ends and for its duration, but bullshit fucking around with other countries is something the west does... don't go blaming Russia for that shit.

Putin and the Russian leadership may be unlikeable but they are not stupid.

Compared to whom? The UK and the US have unlikeable and stupid leaders, the rest of the west does not do much better.

They have been telling their population for months that the only way they will touch Ukraine is to save Donbas from attack. If they do anything else Putin is gone, in disgrace. So they have done three things to protect February:

You mean like the mass resignations of western leaders when Saddam didn't have WMDs or anything else they have said about Russia turning out to be bullshit?

In this way , Russia not cut off from most of the world . Will survive war , at least short term , with NATO . In the unlikely event , that it would not have already turned nuclear . Do we see any of these preparations ? Or are we looking at Nuclear war ? Or mere exercises ?

This is Russia giving the west their last chance to treat Russia and Putin with respect... if there is no answer or the wrong answer Russia is going to be doing exactly what it is doing now except no talks... moving Russian forces to match the locations of HATO threats to Russia... they will also likely build up a theatre nuclear capability that would allow them to destroy Europe if needed. In terms of trade and relations they will look further afield for growth and development.

There is not going to be any attack on Ukraine or HATO, but if HATO or the Ukraine attack the Donbass region Russia will finish them.

That article:

For this reason, NATO will be quick to point out that the alliance is also an alliance of values, and it will take time before Russia fully satisfies these criteria.

Yeah... so basically to get HATO membership you have to become a tool of the US and think in terms of their interests and forget your own... no thanks... that is a cult.

It would also mean years of HATO countries complaining about human rights in Russia not being up to standard because 5 year old kids are not free to get sex changes or choose their gender... you know... like it is every kids right to...

The alliance has long neglected Russia and has not given it the same amount of attention.

It hasn't neglected Russia... Russia has become its reason for being.

The bilateral relationship was not developed in the spirit of a genuine strategic partnership, and Russia has forfeited opportunities by upholding the image of NATO as its enemy.

Hahahaha, it was HATO that rejected Russia and made Russia the enemy... talk about denying reality...

At the same time, the NATO countries have been less and less willing, over the course of two decades, to develop cooperative approaches to security policy with Russia -- particularly when compared with the mood of positive change that prevailed in 1990, when NATO leaders offered the Soviet Union "the hand of friendship" at their summit meeting in London.

The organisation has been anti Russia from the start and has become more so since the end of the Cold War.... or should I be calling it the First Cold War now?

One of the key bones of contention is that, for historical reasons, the new members of NATO define their security as being directed against Russia,

They joined an anti Russian organisation which accepted them because of their hatred of Russia... look at the countries that are not members...

The Euro-Atlantic community needs Russia for many reasons: for energy security, disarmament and arms control, to prevent proliferation, to solve the problems in Iran, Afghanistan and the Middle East conflict, to contain the potential for crisis and conflict in Central Asia, and to facilitate opinion-making and decision-making in the United Nations Security Council and within the framework of the G-8 and the G-20. It is a necessity for NATO to figure out now how Russia can find its way into the Euro-Atlantic community.

When you first read this it sounds quite reasonable, but what they actually mean is solve these problems in favour of European countries... so for energy security they mean super cheap gas and a transit fee subsidy for Ukraine. For disarmament and arms control and preventing proliferation they mean Russia disarms... they are part of HATO now, they don't need such a big military force and stop selling your weapons to everyone... let us sell them safer HATO standard arms. And problems in Iran like bombing them and destroying their culture and capacity to resist our control of the region... same for Afghanistan and the general region... and of course extend out to Asia as well. Make the UNSC a US consensus farce, and the G20 will only be used once the G8 has agreed on what everyone is going to demand and vote for to make 12 more countries do as we say.

HATO couldn't figure out its arse from its elbow... Russia has been trying to cooperate and create partnerships with the west for 30 years and it was only that first 10 years when you had Yeltsin under remote control you ever really liked them.

The trio comprising North America, Europe and Russia has an objective interest in surviving the consequences of the global economic crisis,

Hahahahaha... there it is... the US, EU and Russia would need to destroy China so the US and EU can feed off its corpse and try to recover some of the immense debt they have created for themselves... BTW if the US collapses then the EU wont get the money it lent them so it becomes EU debt as well, so everyone get China.

How about no.

Even the removal of tactical nukes is not interesting... Russia has a functioning air defence system that is rather strong... it seems the EU envies that...

And a joint missile defense system could be installed to protect the territory of NATO countries and Russia.

Screw HATO.

The trans-Atlantic bond between Europe and North America would remain irreplaceable in a triple constellation -- it is the only way we can survive together in a troubled world.

Would never work because Russia wont bend to Americas will like the EU does... Russia is no longer in to self harm.

Would be good. Russia joins NATO. Russia send troops in the baltic states for baltic air policing mission. Russia leaves NATO and leave the troops in the baltics. Then take the baltics.

No article 5 possible since russians troops were invited to come in the baltics.

Hybrid war

Nah... Russia will take longer to actually get in to HATO than Turkey is taking to get into the EU, and by the time they finally did they would have had to route trade through those baltic ports as a friendly gesture... but the most obvious problem is that WTF do they want the Baltic countries back for?

Sounds like a lot of effort to get a kick in the balls.

cant fix stupid!

You can't... but why do we keep electing it in the west?

I seriously hope they divert it to Kaliningrad. I heard that Russian region is expensive for utilities. So cheap gas flowing to it can do wonders.

I thought that initially, but there are a couple of ships designed to take on gas and liquify it to maximise its capacity and at the port in Kaliningrad it can pump it off the ship as gas with no need to convert it...

It is extremely unlikely that Putin was not aware of such details since 1999.

Russian dependence on the Ukraine was a problem for Russia... more money went in to the Ukraine than came out for Russia and much of the stuff they bought they could make better themselves if they spent the money to do so. The west made Ukraine reject Russia, which meant Russia could work on replacing its dependence on the Ukraine after getting the first 14 years of the 21st C to recover its other skills and capacities. If Russia had to replace the Ukraine in 1995 then they would have wasted a lot of time and money and lots of skills and capabilites would have been lost... continuing to use the Ukraine till most other things were good meant replacing the Ukraine was not as damaging as it could have been.

Now they are actually better off though their transport aircraft fleet needs a lot of work and money but is largely waiting for suitable engines to be ready and then that will be solved too.

Angry little men can't cope with the fact that dear leader did not act decisively in 2014, unlike say Kazakhstan in 2021/22, and got toyed around with by the Obama administration and Merkel.... consequences of which Russia is still paying today. But but remember.... "Western leaders are idiots" relative to "wise Kremlin men".

Western leaders are aggressive idiots... they have won the Ukraine minus the Crimea which they particularly wanted so they could deny access to Russia and take it over to use as a HATO navy base. But those cautious kremlin men stopped them... with the will of the people of course... and the will of the people in the Donbass is also thwarting all of HATO and the worlds last super power... America.

And what are they doing about it?

Complaining that Russia isn't fixing the problem... empty useless HATO as usual.... creates problems and blames everyone else and leaves a mess.

Now the situation is worse (as the enemy/rivals have had time to spread their poison and entrench themselves) while still in need of fixing... meaning the costs to do so are higher. Leadership failure complete.

Not at all. The fact that they got the bit they wanted back is nothing short of a miracle, and very much something that upsets the west... in fact the sanctions were all about Russia and Crimea... nothing to do with Donbass.

But if you listen to idiots and propagandist, official and unofficial, you would come out with the impression that Ukraine is a non-factor to anything Russia. Yet, the situation is all consuming (yearly), the very threads of this conflict being the most active on this very forum, and it's, 7 years after the fact, the hot flashpoint of global geopolitics for the new year. But but.... "We don't need Ukraine"....

They don't need Ukraine. The Ukraine is broken and bleeding and needs lots of money to fix it... listen to the EU or US and its economy is fine and it is fine, but if Russia was handed it on a plate with no shots fired, the west will say Ukraine is in tatters and needs investment and money spent to fix it... not their money of course... the west only has money for war.

February 2022 shall be a very eventful month. Too much itching, for far too long.

The west has been saying war is imminent and Russia will invade since the conflict started.... seems they have not fallen in to that trap yet.

Short of a desperate attack like the tie eater of georgia, then it is simply not going to happen.

The west will reject Russias request for security guarantees and Russia will respond by permanently moving its forces to locations that HATO threatens it so any conflict and HATO strong points and bases will be quickly neutralised if you know what I mean.

Russia will start to look to the rest of the world for trade and good relations, including but not limited to China and other BRICS countries... and the rest too.

The expected fate of the JAVELINs and NLAWs:
- In case there is a war: they will end up as trophies captured by the Russian or LNR/DNR troops
- In case there is no war: As the 404 economy sinks deeper, the various factions/clans/groups of Banderite Nazis and their respective supporting oligarchs will use them against each other when elections time comes

I suspect many will be sold to the rebels and most will end up in the middle east black market changing hands for good money, but because they wont be stored and handled properly the vast majority will likely be duds by the time they get used, leading to most potential users feeling ripped off and wanting their money back.

A little early for that prediction. We always seem to have festivities in and around the Olympics

Very true but every season we hear that Russia is about to invade because the ground is just right...

No amount of LAWs from the UK and Javelins from the US will enable Kiev regime forces to succeed on
the LDNR front.

Well that is the interesting thing, when the west rejects Russias requests for red lines the gloves could come off... those British weapons have a range of up to one kilometre, so an SVD could deal with the operator, and the Javelin has a range of about 2.5km... well they actually have sniper rifles that reach that far too... maybe a shipment of such rifles might pass through some of the territory of the Donbass...

Of course Russia supplying weapons would be inflaming the situation, while HATO military weapon contributions enhance peace and stability and democracy in the region.

I could go on... the list is definitely big.

No need to continue... we understand the evil of the west, and that is why we are looking forward to their rejection of Russias proposals and the severing of ties from Russia to Europe and the US.... it is just for the best.

Dear leader had his chance and window to maneuver in 2014, when things were fresh, after having ample warning from the Orange revolution. He miscalculated, massively, made blunder after blunder and now well, it's what it's. History books don't tell great tales of the weak.

If he had been bold and quick and extinguished the evil of the west before it poisoned all of the Ukraine with its darkness.... what then?

Still using old helicopter engines developed during the cold war? Still using Ukrainian transport planes instead of Russian ones with no Russia alternative possible to even consider no matter what its advantages because we need to keep subsidising Kiev?

Nahh.... the west won the Ukraine and the Baltic States and Poland and Hungary... enjoy.

I hope they will gift us with civilian electronics industry and smartphone production! It would be fantastic to see what we can do in this area

Me too... would be good to have a smart phone the NSA are not listening in on...

The Russian energy projects are numerous, Nord Stream 1 , 2 , Turk stream, Power of Siberia 1, Power of Siberia 2, LNG sakhalin, LNG Yamalo Nenets, the list is pretty exhaustive.

The most comical part of this, is that none of this was ever a part of the active Kremlin strategy. It all happened thanks to America, which is the most ironic part.

That is not totally true... the US probably hoped for those projects and more, but owned by US companies operating in Russia under... what... Yeltsin part 4 by now, but of course if it genuinely was a Yeltsen then there would be no problem faking elections to keep him in power for as long as needed if he was doing everything right.

I could care less about failed states like India and Vietnam.

I realise your comments were more about mocking them for being so naive rather than care for their situation... but the point stands.... for every teenage Indian or Vietnamese kid who thinks the west is just the best and why can't our country be that cool or powerful or right... there are likely plenty of Russian kids thinking the same... especially if their family is rich and they live the good life.

Unlike Russian, Vietnamese, Indians, Muslims and other people of colour travel to the West and Russia illegally. They are not invited.

Most western universities are not interested in colour they are only interested in money and they could care less where their students come from... they only care about the colour of their money, and those western companies that head hunt the talent don't care what colour they are either, they go to those same universities and look for the smartest... the west has been exploiting the coloured people of this world for as long as they had been visiting the rest of the world... most of the ideas the west has are based on ideas from around the world that they pinched.... we think bungee jumping is amazing... native people in several different places around the world have been doing it for thousands of years as a test of courage... or gravity.

If the Kremlin doesn't want Russia to go down the drain like the West it should shut our borders permanently for any person of colour.

Actually they are likely to cut most ties and communication with the US and HATO and EU, and open up to the rest of the world...

I could care less about failed states like India and Vietnam.

Haven't you worked it out?

First of all they are not failed states, they are certainly states that have not met their potential in terms of growth and development, and that is largely because the dominantly white european/US colonial world view that exists in the world today... what the so called west has been doing to Russia and China they have been doing to everyone else... India is the way it is because they succeeded... Vietnam is the way it is because they succeeded too, but Russia and China show that sometimes some countries are too big to be "contained"... (which means isolated and abused...) and now that these two countries are developing and growing they can find other countries that the west has stifled and controlled and contained and help them to grow and develop.

Russia can provide pretty much anything you could get from the west... and a few more things besides, and what they don't have China can provide and what they don't have... well that is an opportunity for another country to step up and invest resources and money and time and develop to trade.

Possibly a new age for humanity out from under the nazi jackboot of the west... should be interesting.

Trying to get Russia to join HATO suggests they are starting to understand, but ironically for Germany it makes rather more sense to just ditch its dependence and subservience to the US and become a real independent country again... if they lead by example others might follow but only if they are interested in going in that direction.

The US has been dragging the EU around by the hair so long they like the pain.... they expect it and think it is normal...

Even if Russia joined NATO , current tensions would exist , as they do for nations that are part of NATO . As I said , NATO is not  a uniform force . It is made up of many nations with divergent interests . Even before the latest defections by Germany  and even Britain showing a symbolic show of force , there was talk of USA abandoning it and letting Europeans finance it . So an Iron curtain , maybe an overkill and if some European nations remove NATO bases and leave the organisation , then Russia and China extend trade and commerce . As well as industrial and technical cooperation , to establish a national and independent defence force . A better deal . The Iron chains remain for the American madmen . The B&R will extend in places first . Then the rest , later . Iran foreign policy , as well as Chinese policy , must reflect Russian interests in this .

...todays activity

You can see how dumb people really are too

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/sbnvnc/the_russianukraine_war_is_the_real_danger_for_the/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

In other words, dumbass people who know zero about economics and geopolitics think that a war in Europe's poorest country will result in total economic collapse and freedom gone cause of Russia.

Man, reddit people really are retarded.