Russian special military operation in Ukraine #4

As a prominent maneuverist once said, maps don't lie. Infowar victories rarely translate into physical space, but the opposite is always true, albeit at a time lag.

If Vlad is not with us, then it's a very sad development. We all should memorize him.

We are.

This is his forum.

AFAIK the 80mm Ugroza variants are not in service due to their high price tag compared to what they are worth, however, S-24 240mm and 122mm variants are in service but also in rather small numbers. I can not give you any source because this is just more the indication to be the case than actual source, but the past firing tests of several years have usually only included ATGMs and ASMs not much else I was able to see regarding helicopter-borne firing tests.

It has been shown as a single tube launcher on drones, which I suspect makes it cost effective in the sense it means the drone only needs two rockets which reduces the weight penalty, but means two likely hits on target, where a 20 shot rocket pod might offer similar performance against a point target with a lot more weight and firing 20 rockets perhaps closer to the cost of the two guided ones.

You and I know that will not happen unless they have already another option which will cost them more money and a lot more souvereignity, which in all fairness they do not have at all.

To execute this action I think Putin has had it with the west and likely expected hard core sanctions from the west.

As you mention... the people in the west are not trying to get a balanced view of what is happening which means they will think all sorts of stupid things are a good idea to hurt the bear... not realising that invading the Ukraine and losing soldiers and killing civilians is already hurting the bear.... more than any shit the west could pull normally.

Garry, I am in full agreement, shut down all supply for ALL natural resource to Germany for warmongering and undemocratic fascist-like censorship and anti-freespeech actions.

Not sure they would notice anything else... and considering they are openly supplying weapons to their enemies I think it is justified.

They need to clean the area with suicide drones. Not all Ukraine but the areas where they fly. It's very simple. Fly recco drones to spot them and launch suicide drones to hit them.

It is very simple but also simple to counter... park a BUK in a building for a week and then bring it out and use it... all of a sudden that area that seemed to be safe is not safe any more...

The air defence suppression phase of an attack never ends.

due to massive incompetence on the pilot's part, they never would have gotten that kill if he followed protocols. but hey keep bragging

Unless he lowered the undercarriage that plane should have been safe... and it clearly wasn't.

Pilots don't decide their mission plans, and intel is used to route flights around enemy air defences... this was a failure of planning and design... even flying directly over enemy air defences they still should not have been able to get a good enough lock to hit him with anything substantial...

They did their homework and formulated a plan and it worked.

Not the pilot's fault - he just follows orders (briefing) from his sq commander and he did. They got him because he flew the same flight path every day as per instruction but keep spewing bs.

Weak excuse... the bus comes past my house in 2D... no altitude change at all and I rather doubt I could hit it if I was blindfolded and couldn't see it... even though it always follows the same route at the same time every half hour every week day... guided weapons can't lock on to a flight schedule that is just ignorant.

They detected it and they tracked it and they shot it down... the pilot didn't do wrong... the designer who said it was invisible was wrong... it clearly was not.

Yes it was now your just lying, he flew too low, he kept his bomb bay doors open which he wasn't supposed and he did other things incorrect

The bomb bay doors on the F-117 are automatic and are designed specifically to only open when bombs are released and close immediately afterwards for very obvious reasons.

If it was the bomb bays then that would be simple to fix... alter them and make them automatic... you don't instead retire them from operational service... unless it wasn't the bomb bay doors.

7) Member of Ukraine's First Delegation at Talks With Russia Killed by Security Service of Ukraine, Verkhovna Rada's Lawmaker Claims. A Verkhovna Rada lawmaker claims that a member of Ukraine's first delegation in talks with Russia, Denis Kireev, was killed by the Security Service of Ukraine during arrest on suspicion of treason.

They are killing their own negotiators for treason... wow...

14) any country Imposing No-Fly Zone Over Ukraine Will Be Deemed Party to Conflict - Putin

That solves that issue.

Another su-34 may have been down. So 2 su-34 and 1 su-30 and 1 mi-24 today. They suck at SEAD. Bring those kh-25P and kh-31 and drones. Where are the su-57 to launch kh-31 from safe areas ?

And how well would HATO have done in Kosovo if Serbia had BUK and Igla... remember HATO decided to not fly below about 8KM altitude to avoid MANPADS, and as a result got a lot of friendly fire kills against the people they claimed they went in to help.

They have everything they need to hunt the AD but the officer suck. They don't use everytjing they have. Su-25 armed with kh-25 should be all over the place.

How do you know they aren't?

In the current situation with the IADS likely destroyed, every link in that system that had SAMs has now become an independent sniper, with the same fire power it had before but lacking the early warning. They might be launching in optical track mode which means the only warning will come when it launches a missile.

How would HATO deal with that better?

They're flying low, Ukraine has strong AD, so why arent they high up in large numbers with forward planes baiting the AD

And rear planes sending kh31 to radar emissions ?

Basic SEAD, these imbeciles are sending fighters alone at low altitude to do a bomb run like its 2008

Its criminal incompetence, and not defensible at all, I least I cant defend such a position

VKS planes should own that sky, and I cannot explain why it's like token velvet approach

How come internet warriors are so smart and they are so dumb...

BTW what radar emissions does a BUK launcher emit when firing in optical guidance mode?

I am not saying bomb indiscriminately, but when a unit is ambushed, that's when it's time to just drop the kitchen sink on everything in the area

Do you not think the enemy could use that against them... sniper fire from a church or house with 10 children inside...

It's coming, I'm sure. More normal use of force, that is.

Russian rocket artillery (MLRS) firing a salvo at Ukrainian army positions in Ukraine’s Kherson region

Attacking Ukrainian military forces trapped in a cauldron or caught in open ground away from civilians is fair game for real fire power.

Huge crowd of civilians came to receive weapons in Zaporozhie (under Ukrainian control)

https://t.me/nuhachrus/4034

Yep, Putin fucked up alright

And what does that mean?

If I was in the Ukraine and the government was handing out guns would you want to be the only unarmed person there?

Half these people probably just want to be able to defend themselves from any threat...

Putin is a fool here, they will never negotiate how he wants, they just do this to buy time this is the third time now and they've done it and he still won't learn his lesson lawls

He gave the west 22 years to respect Russia, even just being seen to give talking a chance is the right thing to do... these meetings don't change what is happening on the ground.

Very well put, anytime there are losses, it's difficult to refrain from reacting emotionally

But you're correct , when taking into account the destruction of enemy material and the quality of material

It is a successful operation, of course 100% success would be favorable

Ukraine by no means is the weakest country around

But when spoiled by operation like Kazakhstan with no losses, the vast majority including myself expect their to be little to no losses

But you're right, keep working brothers

But no apology to Putin for calling him an idiot?

You think he is not upset about this situation.... I mean he always throws his soldiers in to solve every problem in the west, he obviously hates Russian soldiers and Ukrainian civilians.... NOT.

I have a question regarding the recent discussions and Zelenksies wish for a no-fly zone. What exactly does this imply for this conflict and why would Russia care about it at all? Who would be enforcing this "no fly zone" NATO?

Suggests they are getting pummelled from the sky now and I would expect the number of attack drones will be replaced with drones for finding things like mobile military ambush groups which, if detected early can be dealt with at a distance... if they know where you are a 30mm cannon is very effective at blunting any ambush... even 50 cals and rifle calibre machine guns are good at that... and most of their remote weapons mounted on Tigrs have thermals too BTW.

Thats alot.

If Russian losses were bigger than Ukrainian losses why are they squealing for no fly zones?

I don't know man, both sides always in war inflate enemy loses, has always been, but this what for we have photos. And it doesn't look good.

Photos already proven to be from the 2014 conflict with Zs photoshopped on to them... it actually looks fantastic if there are so few they have to fake them.

The UK Defence Minister eluded to this kind of problem as a reason not to.

A nice safe reason not to go up against Russia... handy.

Shame they didn't apply that same logic earlier on and made this whole conflict unnecessary by getting Kiev to follow its obligations in Minsk...

Not that I'm proud of anything here. I hate all this shit, and this whole war.

Only an idiot or someone truly evil thinks war is the first or even second tool in the tool box for solving problems... the west is not stupid...

And will paint your lack of war fury as weakness... but those loving this war are the weak ones.

Sorry man, I have no sympathy for any of them
<snip>
Activating nuclear forces. There is clear hatred for the west at this point

I get it.... the penny has dropped and it is pretty clear the west is the enemy, and you are right to think that, but many Russians used to think and some still do think their future is with the west... a lot of these Ukrainians thought the same, but it makes sense to not have to fight all of them because a lot of them will realise that the west wanting a guerilla war means using Ukrainian people as fertiliser to try to damage Russia... and fertiliser does not normally kill things unless you apply it in toxic quantities... and for any Ukrainian it is pretty obvious what that means for them.

Russia killing Nazis, the west killing everyone else... which future would be best for Russia and the Ukraine?

Putin is trying to solve the problem he himself contributed to with war. It's his indictment.

Was always going to be Putins fault... the US are innocent, the UK is innocent, the west is innocent... the people of the Ukraine are innocent... funny it only seemed to be Putin that pointed out the nazi shit on the other side of the border while everyone else turned a blind eye... even Israel... even Germany...

Do you honestly think with that level of hate and disinformation there wasn't going to be a war?

All the criticism of Putin's actions are garbage sitting on garbage assumptions. Fobbing off the biowarfare labs and the
clear move to nuclear weapons by Zelensky is automatic loss of argument. These two factors alone are more than enough
cause for a regime change operation.

The West justified its invasion of Iraq based on less evidence of Iraqi WMDs...

But our idiots do not care about the opinions of people who are much more intelligent, educated, talented and even much more successful than themselves. Simply because they are idiots."

Having clear priorities and objectives and not killing the people you are supposed to be rescuing is at the core of COIN which is what this is about to turn in to.

WE had to destroy the village to save the village simply wont cut it in this conflict.

Mr smoothie used to be a member here. Wish he still posted. He was on mp.net. he always had solid info.

I suspect there were too many who agreed with him... such people often like to be challenged, especially by idiots... on MP.net there were lots of people who knew better if you know what I mean... he had more fun correcting them.

As a prominent maneuverist once said, maps don't lie.

Maps are created by people and people lie all the time... in fact they often use maps to prove their lies are true...

Just like Navalny and his 100 million view fake video and his failed street protests. The propagandists can really turn up the heat. But the hangover eventually comes after the painful reality sets in.

They will eventually realise the people they influence don't have any say in what is happening.... even if we all thought Putin was bad for doing this... what difference would that even make... Putin doesn't take advice from us, and those of us that have a vote that would count against Putin probably already voted against him anyway.

These western propaganda specialists are winning a war they have to lose.... they can't stop the war... Putin didn't do this as a first or second or even 10th choice.... he clearly did this because he could see no other option, so the west winning the propaganda war is meaningless... he didn't do this to win favour in the west or to look good... the problem with the west is that it is playing carrot and stick but it has all been stick and none of it has been carrot...

You catch more flies with honey they say... perhaps if the west had been better behaved and less urgent to swing the stick things might have been different, but the west swings the stick first chance it gets and often it doesn't get a chance so it makes up a reason... like Saddams WMDs...

The official Russian losses are over 500. That is a lot of equipment and more than anything posted in these
threads by a wide margin.

Scale.

Very much so... 70K soldiers and less than 1K dead in 8 odd days of fighting what on paper is a peer enemy with better air defence systems than any HATO country and with more anti armour equipment than any HATO force.

Those with some knowledge can use SSH tuna providers, good luck blocking that.

Turn the taps right down to a trickle and then find the leaks and make an example of them.

miketheterrible wrote:Honestly, I expected better from Python. I know he is a commie wannabe, but never expected him to be a turncoat that posts Ukie propaganda. Should have expected it when he was crying about this conflict. Crying about how Russians are now protecting Russians and killing Ukie azov and other nazi wannabes. He cares for them, far more than his own kind.  Communists were like that. Always cared for some two bit shitstain state like Ukraine.

Don't care about your crying dude.

I'm being real here. There are losses. I'm not glad about them.

Obviously not to the extent that certain panic-mongers in this thread have been inferring. And I corrected them as well.

Arkanghelsk wrote:The reason any of these shit heads can talk like this

Is the Kremlin's fault

The soft approach and the goddamn gore vids they gave out to everyone gave free ammo for all the propaganda outlets to run amok

Plus mods let this shit be distributed , were on a russian forum and fuckers posting gore vids


Way to go guys

Who's posting gore videos?

None of the vids I posted have any gore whatsoever.

I have one comment folks.
When things are foggy out there, a quick look into history to make a comparison is not a bad idea.

A mass exodus of the civilian population from the areas that are not directly targeted by the operation? Checked.
The disintegration of local authorities? Checked.
A mass exodus of wealthy people, who knows a bit better? Checked.
Public punishments? Checked.
Governing applied by a bunch of armed goons? Checked.
Creating an armed militia out of ordinary citizens, without proper training? Checked.
General staff communication, proving that they are in a panic mode so deep that relocating the cities on a map? Checked.
Panic communication mode by supreme command towards population? Checked.
Killings on the streets, including killings of authorities? Checked.

And where are we?
In Nazi Reich, spring 1945.

Oh my oh my oh my, who would guess that twitter war does not apply to the real one ...

Well, Hitler has not asked anyone for military assistance, as there was no one to be asked

But when I hear the statements of the Ukrainian military, it is like watching Die Deutsche Wohenschau.

I am still waiting for the Ukrainian "Steiner", because it will be part of the show for sure.