Russian special military operation in Ukraine #5

Mir wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:
Optical guidance by buk and Tor is formidable, without MAWS you wont know it's coming

Don't think Buk has any optical guidance whilst Tor has?

flamming_python wrote:

Regular wrote:Azov nazis are posting destroyed russian equipment and tanks. By the looks of it they are fully stocked with Javelins and NLAWs. They will be hard nut to crack, knowing how close to civilians and infrastructure they are

In Mariupol?

It's more likely to be DNR forces than Russian per say.

Arkanghelsk wrote:
While early Buk had a day electro-optical tracking system 9Sh38 (similar was used for example on Kub, Tor and Osa missile system), it's current design can be fitted with a combined optical tracking system with a thermal camera and a laser rangefinder for passive tracking of the target.

Regular wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Regular wrote:Azov nazis are posting destroyed russian equipment and tanks. By the looks of it they are fully stocked with Javelins and NLAWs. They will be hard nut to crack, knowing how close to civilians and infrastructure they are

In Mariupol?

It's more likely to be DNR forces than Russian per say.

Yes, it could be DNR forces, but there are some destroyed BMDs.

It will be epic last stand for them, Ukraine gave all the best they have to these radicals...

Mir wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:
While early Buk had a day electro-optical tracking system 9Sh38 (similar was used for example on Kub, Tor and Osa missile system), it's current design can be fitted with a combined optical tracking system with a thermal camera and a laser rangefinder for passive tracking of the target.

I see you quoted directly from https://military-history.fandom.com › wiki › Buk_missile_system >>  



Well according to Rosoboronexport catalogue (2000) no mention is made of any optical tracking system - only radar?

Vann7 wrote:
yeah.. lets invade ukraine in 2014 when vast majority of ukrainians were really convinced the west
was the solution to all their problems ,that there will be prosperity and refrigerators always full and they rich.  

Arkanghelsk wrote:

Mir wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:
While early Buk had a day electro-optical tracking system 9Sh38 (similar was used for example on Kub, Tor and Osa missile system), it's current design can be fitted with a combined optical tracking system with a thermal camera and a laser rangefinder for passive tracking of the target.

I see you quoted directly from https://military-history.fandom.com › wiki › Buk_missile_system >>  



Well according to Rosoboronexport catalogue (2000) no mention is made of any optical tracking system - only radar?

Yeah, but I would expect Buk to be able to used passively, the missiles are command guided so should be possible, but no confirmation 

I doubt su34 was brought down by manpads, even su25, I have seen su25 take direct hit from manpads

Only thing would blow those planes from sky is tor or buk

Hole wrote:Remember 2008? Russia destroyed the NATO approved georgian forces in 72 hours. Good work. Russian military:  We need new equipment. Then the re-armament program started. This conflict will lead to something similar. Well, most of the new stuff is already in testing or inital production, including stuff to better protect convoys/rear services like the Tornado family of armored truck, Gibka-S or the security vehicle based on the Kamaz--VDV. But they couldn´t wait another 2 or 3 years until all of this is ready or available in larger numbers.

My guesses:

acceleration of the Tornado program

acceleration of the drone and robot programs (some of the robots are still to unreliable to be used in such a conflict), priority should be long-range recon/attack drone and a heavy heli drone, at best with the same weapons carrying capability (up to 16 ATGM´s) of the current assault helis

acceleration of some AD systems, mostly Gibka-S, Sosna/Ptitselov and Pantsir-SM-SV, the MoD should also buy some Tor systems based on Kamaz truck, because they can better keep up with convoys.

Lurk83 wrote:Something has been hit in the Black Sea.  Ukrainians claiming it was a grad strike on vasiliy bykov

Arkanghelsk wrote:
Yeah, but I would expect Buk to be able to used passively, the missiles are command guided so should be possible, but no confirmation 
I doubt su34 was brought down by manpads, even su25, I have seen su25 take direct hit from manpads
Only thing would blow those planes from sky is tor or buk

Mir wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:
Yeah, but I would expect Buk to be able to used passively, the missiles are command guided so should be possible, but no confirmation 
I doubt su34 was brought down by manpads, even su25, I have seen su25 take direct hit from manpads
Only thing would blow those planes from sky is tor or buk

Yes I've mentioned here that it is possible to blind fire the Buk's missiles and hope that the missiles radar can track the incoming aircraft but it's more likely to be a miss than a hit but I think that is what they are doing in the Buk's case. Tor has the optical system you mention.

JohninMK wrote:Reality and myth. Or the Ukraine military and the World's media.

d_taddei2 wrote:I think what we have learned is that it's not always the most sophisticated method of AD systems that are lethal. And just how dangerous Soviet systems are even when operating on their own initiative. And how difficult they are to take out. On the note of MANPADS and Su-25. MANPADS are maybe not as effective as other systems when up against armoured aircraft which aren't a common aircraft type. I remember a while ago in another thread where someone commented saying strela 10 was useless now Verba has come along I argued that Verba carries 1.5kg warhead while strela 10 carries a 5kg warhead that could easily be the difference between the aircraft limping home to base or be blown in half. With Ukraine still having many strela 10 it's likely Su-25 became victim to this type of system or the heavier Buk.

JohninMK wrote:

Lurk83 wrote:Something has been hit in the Black Sea.  Ukrainians claiming it was a grad strike on vasiliy bykov

Could be anything

OSINTtechnical
@Osinttechnical
·
1h
The Ukrainians are claiming they hit the Russian Navy Project 22160 patrol ship Vasily Bykov last night with MLRS fire.

Arkanghelsk wrote:
Mir, that's 9sh38 , with 9m317 buk missiles behind 
Buk can be used with optical guidance

miketheterrible wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:I think what we have learned is that it's not always the most sophisticated method of AD systems that are lethal. And just how dangerous Soviet systems are even when operating on their own initiative. And how difficult they are to take out. On the note of MANPADS and Su-25. MANPADS are maybe not as effective as other systems when up against armoured aircraft which aren't a common aircraft type. I remember a while ago in another thread where someone commented saying strela 10 was useless now Verba has come along I argued that Verba carries 1.5kg warhead while strela 10 carries a 5kg warhead that could easily be the difference between the aircraft limping home to base or be blown in half. With Ukraine still having many strela 10 it's likely Su-25 became victim to this type of system or the heavier Buk.

Ukraine has about 150 Strela 10's.  Whatever they still have is guaranteed all on the east.

Arkanghelsk wrote:

Ukraine Mig29, downed , pilot seen next to wreck parachuting