Russian special military operation in Ukraine #7

I don't want to be spooked by NATzO posturing. But the deciders are doubling down as things go off the rails. Now we have the US
starting sanctions action against China. I expect them to go after India and any other country that dares not bend the knee. This
is insane, but the lunatics are running the asylum.

kvs wrote:I don't want to be spooked by NATzO posturing.   But the deciders are doubling down as things go off the rails.   Now we have the US
starting sanctions action against China.   I expect them to go after India and any other country that dares not bend the knee.   This
is insane, but the lunatics are running the asylum.  

They are lunatics. But they know they can't rule a wasteland. They want power over people.  The blustering you are hearing is simply the swan song of these people. Poland knows its incompetent and incapable. Notice it's Poland making all the claims but not loud mouth stoltensberg? He is the one quick to say something and he is head of NATO. Poland leadership is just blustering. They are nobodies and will continue to be.

What they are doing is rather simple: they are trying to put nato in a tough position by making all these claims. In the end, Poland wasn't even man enough to transfer MiGs to Ukraine in fear of retaliation.  Don't forget, European Union was already debating prior to this about the importance of NATO and starting a European force.  Poland was wanting to start their own little military club of misfits.  This is all part of that.

Instead, they are creating a new iron Curtain and they got only themselves to blame.

You guys fear way too much on this. As I have said and they themselves admitted, they won't die for Ukraine. They just set Ukraine up to split Russia from Europe.  The only states who cares for that banderite hellhole is Poland and the Baltic chihuahuas.

Ukraine accuses Hungary of having designs on its land

source

Ukraine's Deputy Prime Minister Irina Vereshchuk has questioned, what she has described as, Hungary’s “pro-Russian” rhetoric, suggesting that the desire for “cheap Russian gas” or even a potential land grab could be behind Budapest’s policy over the conflict between Moscow and Kiev.

In a lengthy Facebook post, the official claimed that “not even all Russian satellites from the former Soviet Union behave the way Hungary’s authorities do.” She said that Hungary does not support sanctions against Russia, refuses to provide Ukraine with weapons, and even “does not allow weapons from other countries to pass via their territory.”

“In fact, they say ‘no’ to everything. A bit more – and Budapest's official rhetoric will be totally pro-Russian. What is this? Want some cheap Russian gas? Or maybe want our Transcarpathia?” Vereshchuk wrote before calling on Budapest to “join the civilized world” and “not to repeat the mistakes of World War II when Hungary made a wrong choice.”

Earlier on Tuesday, Hungarian Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said that his country would not support anti-Russia sanctions which would cause harm to its own interests, including the penalties targeting Russian gas and oil. He also reiterated that Hungary was against any proposals involving sending NATO soldiers to Ukraine or creating a no-fly zone over the country, explaining that such actions would raise the risk of a larger-scale war.

Though the Hungarian government has condemned Moscow’s attack on Ukraine and supported some sanctions, it has consistently defended its wish to “stay out” of the conflict and has refused to join other countries in sending weapons to Ukraine.

Ukrop morons in meltdown mode...

Chechen forces getting ready to go to the front lines, can anyone guess the weapons shown at the start of video?

https://t.me/boris_rozhin/35456

par far wrote:Chechen forces getting ready to go to the front lines, can anyone guess the weapons shown at the start of video?

https://t.me/boris_rozhin/35456

Guess? There are tons of them, no chance to tell custom AR-15. He is saying they are sniper weapons... Anyway, I am more impressed with optics, they even have thermals.

flamming_python wrote:

Putin you fking murderer

What the hell is this. Flying machines of death against sleeping troops. Better leave them to deploy and fight them in open battle.

But no, Putin wants a conclusion and to "break morale". Maybe he shouldn't have started this war in the first place.

I don't think Putin ordered such strikes or has much control of military matters in the theater. He stated, that he trusts his generals and their performance.

I hate that Ukrainians and Russians are dying in this "special operation", sleeping or not sleeping it matters little to me personally, I don't find death fighting in the open more honorable.

How many times does Ukraine need to be hit to learn that during wartime they can't be deployed in publically known barracks? Hell, even hiding in empty schools (they are not active anyway) is better than this, this is outright asking to get killed. I don't understand why they can't simply deploy and scatter in the fields?

They (the Ukrop army) could also choose to kill every last neonazi in their midst, surrender to Russia, stop using their own civilians as human shields and bring this war to an end, but they won't. 
So   them, get Calibrated!

Really good:

As much as i love Russia, and had lot of respect for Putin i have to say. People who think that this war is about "Nazis" is hopelessly delusional as people who claims that Russia wants to take Europe. This was a very stupid move and will achieve nothing for anyone. Only death and chaos in a world that had enough of it. Putin could had ended his political career without this... Now a lot of Russians and Ukrainians are dying, young men of a population that struggles with low birth rate. Lots of flaws on russian equipment and tactics where exposed to the world... A humanitarian crisis has emerged and people couldn't even take a break from Covid. Russia is pretty much banned from the international market. And all of this for what? Nothing. For freaking nothing. Go ahead and call me a troll if you will, but look at my older posts before trying it.

Arctic_Fox wrote:As much as i love Russia, and had lot of respect for Putin i have to say. People who think that this war is about "Nazis" is hopelessly delusional as people who claims that Russia wants to take Europe. This was a very stupid move and will achieve nothing for anyone. Only death and chaos in a world that had enough of it. Putin could had ended his political career without this... Now a lot of Russians and Ukrainians are dying, young men of a population that struggles with low birth rate. Lots of flaws on russian equipment and tactics where exposed to the world... A humanitarian crisis has emerged and people couldn't even take a break from Covid. Russia is pretty much banned from the international market. And all of this for what? Nothing. For freaking nothing. Go ahead and call me a troll if you will, but look at my older posts before trying it.

Not a troll, just an idiot.

This Operation was never done by the west because they wouldn't have the balls to do it.

You can claim whatever, but Russia went in with a significantly less force, took 40% of a country larger than most others in Europe, and that was trained and equipped for the last 8 years by NATO.

Just another armchair retard in the midst.  Great thing about this war, shows how stupid so many people even on this shit forums are.

Always funny to see people cry about Ukraine and how it's causing so much damage in the world. Yeah, a country poorer than Ghana in Africa, and more corrupt than it.  Yet not a blink for US destroying the richest country in Africa or destroying one of the pillars of civilization of the past (Iraq) or currently creating mass starvation and humanitarian disaster in Yemen which is the ancient country of Sheba. Or.... I can go on.

Edit: and Russia has far more legit excuses too: constant threats of nuclear and biological war against Russia from Ukraine, mass murder of 14,000 people by Ukraine soldiers against civilians (pogroms), actual biolabs banned by Geneva convention hosted by US and finally NATO build up in the country against Russia.

What did Yemen do to US? Or Libya? Their excuse was the lockerbe bombing and that was years and years prior. Or how about the fake chemical/biological weapons in Iraq? Might I add, US still has chemical weapons in storage that were banned and Russia destroyed all of theirs?

US Secretary of Defense says Russia's strategy has stalled and he is feeding his troops to a wood chipper.


Since I live here in America, I don't know what is really going on because I am hearing all kinds of things. On the news here, it was said that Russia has lost 15,000 soldiers is that true?




https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-defense-secretary-said-russias-003048836.html

andalusia wrote:US Secretary of Defense says Russia's strategy has stalled and he is feeding his troops to a wood chipper.  


Since I live here in America, I don't know what is really going on because I am hearing all kinds of things.  On the news here, it was said that Russia has lost 15,000 soldiers is that true?




https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-defense-secretary-said-russias-003048836.html

Yeap, all true. Now please leave the forums and stop asking stupid questions.

Seriously, can we have real people here and not fucking NPC's?

I also live in the west. Doesn't take a genius to figure out what is real and what is bullshit.

If I was in Garry's place, I would be putting the ban hammer very hard on half the people here. Asking dumb questions answered a million times already, spreading fud and giving insight that isn't even warranted, makes sense or complete hypocrisy.

@artic fox

So when do you suggest Russia fights back? When missiles are flying at Moscow
Nato has been drawing ever closer to Russia despite Russia constantly trying to bend over for them, nato is a defence alliance on paper only, all their actions have been against countries who did not attack any nato member first, you sincerely believe they wouldn’t try to use their position to destroy Russia if they managed to setup in Ukraine
biolabs proved to be real, Ukraine was actively trying to join nato and take back Donbas, potentially even taking a shot at Crimea , considering how demented their leadership is…
Russia was already the most sanctioned country after Iran even before this
If anything Putin should be criticised for not acting sooner, its a damn shame Slavs are killing each other but any Slav subscribing to Nazism and bootlicking The US Hegemony is a lost cause.
Denazifying Ukraine is just one part of a much larger issue and not the sole reason for this intervention

Ps
Just the atrocities committed against the civilians of Donbas by the US puppet government in Kiev are enough for a Russian intervention as far as I am concerned.

All this criticism of me being a hidden Ukrop

How many times was it discussed on this forum that Russia has nothing to do by going into the Ukraine? That it should be left alone?

Would the Ukraine have attacked if Russia hadn't attacked first?
I'd say there is good reason to believe that. They were not implementing Minsk, and like Saakashvilli they were only expanding the Ukrainian military. While building up more and more NATO infrastructure.
But the fact is we'll never know. Nor whether they would have attacked, nor whether NATO planned to accept them. As it was Russia that attacked. Everything else is just 'what if'

And if Russia would have succeeded in destabilising the Ukrainian regime quickly, or forcing them into a treaty - it would be one thing. For I'm sure that was the goal
But from what I can see Russia has moved from plan A, to plan B, and now to plan C.
And I don't like plan C. But there is no reverse gear as now Russia is in a proxy war with NATO.

And for that one can only blame our political and military leadership.
They consciously walked right into the bear trap that NATO has set for them, believing somehow that they can outsmart it. Instead though they underestimated everything and ended up in this situation.
Russia had 8 years to figure out something more clever. To bring about some sort of settlement on the Crimea and frozen conflict in the Donbass. Instead this shit.
And no I don't like that Ukrainian servicemen, even conscripts are paying the price for it.

Hence our command fked up. Whatever the outcome of this war, they should be put on a tribunal. Without regime change, just simply changing the guard.

Serberus wrote:So when do you suggest Russia fights back? When missiles are flying at Moscow
Nato has been drawing ever closer to Russia despite Russia constantly trying to bend over for them, nato is a defence alliance on paper only, all their actions have been against countries who did not attack any nato member first, you sincerely believe they wouldn’t try to use their position to destroy Russia if they managed to setup in Ukraine
biolabs proved to be real, Ukraine was actively trying to join nato and take back Donbas, potentially even taking a shot at Crimea , considering how demented their leadership is…
Russia was already the most sanctioned country after Iran even before this
If anything Putin should be criticised for not acting sooner, its a damn shame Slavs are killing each other but any Slav subscribing to Nazism and bootlicking The US Hegemony is a lost cause.
Denazifying Ukraine is just one part of a much larger issue and not the sole reason for this intervention

Please, logic isn't wanted on this shit stain forums. It's meant for Ukrops like Flaming who doesn't like logic or use it. Or for hypocrites who can't put 2+2 together, or people asking real stupid questions like "CNN and Fox and other anti Russian propaganda outlets have said this about Russia. Is this true?"

Fucking abysmal. I think mods gave up.

Real good contributors to this forums are either just watching and not wanting to post or left altogether cause of the crap being spewed here. A Russian based forums.

This is worst than mp.net and is more or less f16.net.  what a joke. I believe top secret is better than this.  I'm just here at this point for economic stuff. This thread is full of shit and I'm just here to point it out.

I'm done. I just hope Garry cleans up the thread, even my posts too.

When you go into a war, you are safer overestimating your opponent than understimating them.

And if you overestimate your opponent and can't envision victory, so then think and plan some more

Instead what do we have.
Underestimation of Ukrainian military
Underestimation of Western economic and political unified response
Underestimation of Ukrainian regime stability and rallying to flag
Underestimation of lack of appeal of Russian mission to Ukrainian population

And even if Russia was forced to undertake such a mission before it was fully ready, and I think events may indeed have forced it's hand - then there is still no excuse for such hubris.

Some real news

https://t.me/intelslava/23176
(Video in link)
I've received yet another video about how the puppet regime in Kyiv is trying to prolong the agony of political Ukrainianism.  In particular, prisoners of war and voluntarily surrendered servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine talk about the process of mobilization of residents of Ukrainian regions, the social situation in cities and the lawlessness of nationalist formations.

Maybe Ukrop propagandist Flaming Python can confirm this.

Strelkov's view on the matter

https://bastyon.com/post?s=cd4dd3dba23f07ecdec6e69b9f41910cdc8deb9ec388a38b9c4e40a157a6d5ef

In Russian only unfortunately, but his main thesis:

- Russia attacked first, but there was a high probability of the Ukraine attacking the Donbass otherwise on its terms. The start of the operation successfully came as a surprise to many, although he notes that the Americans were only 10 days off as to the start of the Russian offensive.
- In 2020 the Ukraine started pulling units up to the front, then Russia did as well and it seems convinced them not to start any offensives then
- This time Russia started pulling up units and was convinced that a Ukrainian attack would happen sooner or later, so struck first. Strelkov didn't think they had it in them
- Planning for the war was too optimistic. According to Strelkov, it was expected that Chernigov and Kharkov would accept Russian administration, but didn't. It was also expected that many Ukrainian units would lay down arms but this did not happen either, and Strelkov is puzzled as to how such a mistake was made as he himself could have opined that this wouldn't happen, and that this isn't the same army as from 2014.
- The war can only end with either Russian or Ukrainian capitulation, and the West won't let the Ukraine capitulate, they are not sovereign enough to make such a decision
- Ukrainian civilians are greeting the operation with neutrality or masked negativity at best, as in "we live bad enough already, and you're only making it worse", and that this isn't the same situation as if the Russian military had entered back in 2014
- No barracks or such were struck in the first days of the war, this gave time for the Ukrainian units to deploy to positions and begin battle. By the time Russian command realized that their assumptions were incorrect and adjusted, by the 5th day or so, it was already too late, although they have been slowly adjusting to targeting the personnel over the past weeks
- Russia needs to conduct several waves of partial mobilization, just 200,000 troops alone will be needed to keep control over Ukrainian territory, nevermind undertake offensives
- Russian forces were spread out over too many axis of advances. If they had concentrated from the Crimea and Kharkov directions, they could have enveloped the entire Ukrainian army in the east. Now the Russian military is regrouping to form several fists
- DNR/LNR and Russian advances in the Donbass are rather playing to the Ukrainian defensive strategy - assaulting fortified settlements and cities. Russia is playing by the rules of the enemy
- The DNR/LNR are throwing some barely trained reserves into battle as well, with the expected results

Strelkov of course is not privy to the Russian military strategy and admits such, but he does have some sources here and there.

In my view, I'd argue that even in 2014 there would have been no guarantee that Russian forces would have been greeted positively anywhere outside the Crimea and Donbass, although certainly more positively than now, and perhaps indifferently in many parts of the country. The main thing is that the Ukrainian military would have indeed surrendered back then. However the Western reaction and sanctions would have created far more of a shock to the Russian economy, which was nowhere near geared to self-sufficiency back then, the Chinese economy was smaller, and many other world economies and countries were more tied to the West.
So difficult to say, whether 2014 or 2022 would have been more optimal.

About who would have attacked and so on, probably correct, but history is not written according to 'what if', but what was. There were probably ways of avoiding the war, delaying it, making compromises, or luring the Ukrainians into starting an offensive while leading them to believe that Russia would not react. These would have been smarter moves, IMO. But I don't know all the details.

I'd also say that the Russian strategy, despite mistaken initial optimism - is not as obvious and clumsy as it seems. And it's clear that the DNR/LNR liberating their own lands by battle is playing a central role in the process, as is their methodical advance and assault on Ukrainian positions. If I had to guess, I'd say that Russia has cleared the way for the DNR/LNR and that the focus will shift on them, as a native Ukrainian force, a conscript army with high motivation and capable of eliciting locals in adjacent regions to their ranks, when they get there. Russia I think, would prefer to act in support of them.

About mobilizations. Putin himself never admits that he was wrong, so any partial mobilization would have to be done on the low-down. And secondly, it would have an effect on the Russian economy that the leadership also probably wants to avoid. Strelkov earlier opined about the Russian command banking more on mercenaries for the Donbass armies than on mobilized reserves, and that the mercs will never be enough, mobilization will have to take place. Personally, I think that it's necessary to keep the DNR/LNR as a Ukrainian force and work on this project some more.

About the DNR/LNR throwing reserves into battle, from what I can see they're mainly engaged in checkpoints and logistics. But I'm sure he has more info than I do.

Finally, Strelkov himself was an optimist in previous years. He's just as guilty as Russian command.

Mir wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Putin you fking murderer
What the hell is this. Flying machines of death against sleeping troops. Better leave them to deploy and fight them in open battle.
But no, Putin wants a conclusion and to "break morale". Maybe he shouldn't have started this war in the first place.

I can not believe how naive you are! Do you think war starts at 8 and finish at 5 in the afternoon?
How about shelling innocent civilians without warning since 2014?

Me naive?

Was I the one who was greeting the start of war with open arms?

And unfortunately, it met my expectations..

ALAMO wrote:

flamming_python wrote:When you go into a war, you are safer overestimating your opponent than understimating them.

And if you overestimate your opponent and can't envision victory, so then think and plan some more

Instead what do we have.
Underestimation of Ukrainian military
Underestimation of Western economic and political unified response
Underestimation of Ukrainian regime stability and rallying to flag
Underestimation of lack of appeal of Russian mission to Ukrainian population

And even if Russia was forced to undertake such a mission before it was fully ready, and I think events may indeed have forced it's hand - then there is still no excuse for such hubris.

I observe your entrances for a while and must admit that can't find the key.
You are shifting as a cruise missile, from the stages of euphoria to oh no we will all die! in minutes.
I would say it is a matter of some mental conditions, and I am not insulting you any way. Just a pure observation

Functionally all your points are senseless whining.
Russkies did not underestimate the Ukro military, that is why they block it & hit & kill at any occasion, increasing the pressure steadily. They did not erase all that barracks in the very first hour because they didn't want to. Now, they are showing they can. Any given moment. I won't even comment on your childish blah blah about hitting the army in barracks, it is the same level of stupidity as "kinzhal is the weapon of cowards".

Russkies did not underestimate the economical reaction of the west, they were getting ready for it for years. All the announced changes in gas/oil distribution they made end of 2021, are something discussed with the partners for years. All the Power of Siberia, new plants, new LNG terminals, the importozamieszczienije thing - this is all a part of a plan. Russkies fuel the cars with the same cash they did a month ago, they but food with the same inflation rates&price increase you are facing all along the EU now, they don't have shortages. It is funny to watch how "Russkies lack sugar!" propaganda, while the shelves of the stores I am used to using are half empty. To say that they did not estimate the pressure is stupid. It is ze West who obviously overestimated on that.

Russkies did not underestimate the regime stability in Ukr, the regime is already gone. There is no control in half of a country, the cities formally under the central government are turning into haos, armed gangs are pillaging the neighborhoods. Lynches became a standard practice, people are being beaten&humiliated under false or true claims, without arrest, trail or judge. God knows where Zelensky is, but it is not Kiev for sure. His propaganda entrances are being made on a blue screen, in hospital in Poland, etc.

Russkies get the appeal of Ukrainian citizens perfectly well, and there is much a difference in how they are being welcomed in the south or east than in the north.
It was obvious from the beginning, as soon as they will reach Lvov there will be another country already. But again they will be warm welcomed all along Carpatia.

The only question is how much of Ukro they want to conquer at  the moment, and honestly I have no idea. But they do.

So sit calm and observe, maybe trying not to forget about daily pills or something

It's the conflict between one's logic and one's conscience.

I understand that the war is not going to end now, and what's at stake, and that there's no road back, it must be won - that's the logic.
But that we majorly wrecked the lives of millions of people, bulldozed the economy of an entire country, are killing off their young men, no matter what bullshit they've been led to believe - that's the conscience.

It's a civil war, this stuff. I can't be glad about it. Kiev is our city too. Same people, Russians and Ukrainians, just different states.

andalusia wrote:US Secretary of Defense says Russia's strategy has stalled and he is feeding his troops to a wood chipper.  


Since I live here in America, I don't know what is really going on because I am hearing all kinds of things.  On the news here, it was said that Russia has lost 15,000 soldiers is that true?




https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-defense-secretary-said-russias-003048836.html

Watch this, Scott is trustworthy and always spot-on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRFjlnoMCeE