Russian special military operation in Ukraine #8

flamming_python wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:It will depend on what the Ukies gain from their counterattacks. They will likely make small gains,

Counter attacks should be expected, Russians are over stretched and out numbered so its sensible for the Ukies to attack them.

Russians either need to deploy moe forces or shorten the frontline ASAP

No, it makes no sense for the Ukrainians to attack the Russians in Kherson, or Sumy, or any such place 50-100km from the Russian border where a bunch of Russian planes can simply lift off and vaporize them, or Russian artillery can do the same job

It's a bunch of offensives for the cameras, but its dangerous for the people involved. This is the sort of regime Russia is dealing with

The only thing resembling an attack was the one near Sumy yesterday, where some Ukrainian territorial guard attacked a checkpoint and took out a tank, in return for their own losses and a destroyed Ukrainian SPG. Russia has not gotten around to clearing this area, it's a failure, but such a small-scale skirmish can hardly be called a counter-attack.

Isos wrote:Ukrainians shooting on captured russians !! Graphic video.  

<blockquote class=

Isos wrote:
War is about killing... russians are still nice to not level their country, they should be happy.

Well once they take the donbas I doubt russians will care about western ukrainian population and go at full power. Lviv won't exist anymore IMO once they come there.

Odin of Ossetia wrote:

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

Firebird wrote:

FP wrote: here weren't any Polish SS volunteers or anything of the sort. In Russia we had Vlasov's army, but in Poland I should note they didn't have anything like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_in_the_Wehrmacht
Well this is a Western source ie pro Polish. And even they add mass collaboration.

Western sources about Polish crimes, aren't they the same "telling truth" about tens  of millions of Russians killed in Gulags? That Stalin and Hitler were like soul brothers? and millions of raped women  by Russian Army? tell me more about that. Copmngrats sources.


As for Wehrmacht, you should learn history. Before IIWW Poles of German descent were drafted to Wehrmacht. Poland was pretty multiethnic those times. + Anybody living in Silesia was considered a German. My advice read with understanding,

EOT in this topic

In the parts of western and northern Poland incorporated into the Reich during late 1939 ethnic Poles were forcibly conscripted into the Wehrmacht. The word "forcibly" is the key word here, as almost nobody volunteered. Overall during WWII there were more ethnic Poles who served in the Wehrmacht, than there were Polish partisans.  

From those who served on the Eastern Front, a relatively small number defected to the Soviets, and later joined the Polish People's Army.

There were also some who defected to the Allies elsewhere, and also to the local partisans in countries like Yugoslavia and Greece.


There was a failed attempt to create an SS legion from a few hundred members of the Goralenvolk, but majority of them deserted after quarreling with some ethnic Ukrainian collaborators (in the quarrel the Germans apparently sided with the Ukrainians, and that upset most of the Gorals). The Polish Gorals (Mountaineers) are the inhabitants of the Polish Carpathians, and they do have significant German and Romanian ancestry.


There was also some collaboration with the Germans by some Polish extreme right-wing "resistance", for example the top leadership of the MiP (apparently in secret from majority of the lower-ranking members), a significant portion of the NSZ, and some AK units (not only in Belarus and Lithuania, but also sporadically in Poland-proper).

http://michalw.narod.ru/index-ZiemiLubelskiej.html



In case of the ethnic Germans from Poland, obviously lots of them served in the various police formations, and also in the German government apparatus; the Sonderdienst (Special Service) which existed in the General Governorship (GG) consisted entirely of them.

http://michalw.narod.ru/index-GL42.html


In addition to it also the deceptively named Selbstschutz (Selfdefence), which existed during 1939-1940 in both the GG and the parts of Poland incorporated into the Reich.

Reportedly many ethnic Germans from Poland also served in the Waffen-SS (Armed SS).

Besides these, there were also the Landwacht (Rural Sentry) and Stadtwacht (Urban Sentry) reserve formations, which existed until 1944, when they were both disbanded and transformed into the Volkssturm (Popular Assault).

SeigSoloyvov wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:It will depend on what the Ukies gain from their counterattacks. They will likely make small gains,

Counter attacks should be expected, Russians are over stretched and out numbered so its sensible for the Ukies to attack them.

Russians either need to deploy moe forces or shorten the frontline ASAP

No, it makes no sense for the Ukrainians to attack the Russians in Kherson, or Sumy, or any such place 50-100km from the Russian border where a bunch of Russian planes can simply lift off and vaporize them, or Russian artillery can do the same job

It's a bunch of offensives for the cameras, but its dangerous for the people involved. This is the sort of regime Russia is dealing with

The only thing resembling an attack was the one near Sumy yesterday, where some Ukrainian territorial guard attacked a checkpoint and took out a tank, in return for their own losses and a destroyed Ukrainian SPG. Russia has not gotten around to clearing this area, it's a failure, but such a small-scale skirmish can hardly be called a counter-attack.

and were you getting your information from?

cause russians got pushed out of a few areas near Sumy.

auslander wrote:

FFS, pleae put a cognizant link for a video. I don't have and will never have twitter, shchmitter, shitter, whatever. Either that or I'll just put you on 'ignore' for useless bovine scatology and be done with it. I can get all I want but you, in theory, make it easier.

flamming_python wrote:

You're really not taking into account Ukrainian geography

It's a lot of forests all throughout the east and north-east. You can only travel by the roads.

As for the concentration of forces, this has been addressed before. No-one's building Blitzkrieg spearheads. Russia is tying down Ukrainian forces across a large front, it's deep order battle. But at the moment its only focused on advancing and exploiting the advance in the Donbass and Kharkov areas.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:As you recently lost two your children, I will refrain from any remarks.

auslander wrote:From more peaceful, more calm times. Language don't matter, melody does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyc3rrsEiE4&list=RDGMEMc6JZQrQ__ROET3gGdz-Trw&start_radio=1&rv=gkqlhjJHtMo

auslander wrote:

Isos wrote:Ukrainians shooting on captured russians !! Graphic video.  

FFS, pleae put a cognizant link for a video. I don't have and will never have twitter, shchmitter, shitter, whatever. Either that or I'll just put you on 'ignore' for useless bovine scatology and be done with it. I can get all I want but you, in theory, make it easier.

auslander wrote:

Isos wrote:Ukrainians shooting on captured russians !! Graphic video.  
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FFS, pleae put a cognizant link for a video. I don't have and will never have twitter, shchmitter, shitter, whatever. Either that or I'll just put you on 'ignore' for useless bovine scatology and be done with it. I can get all I want but you, in theory, make it easier.

flamming_python wrote:While Russia has redeployed its forces from Kherson, and some from around Kiev and Kharkov - to closing the Donbass pocket

No news on Mariupol all day, far as we know the Azovites are still chilling in the Azov Steel works

It smells like a deal may be getting put together

The Ukro-Russian talks are scheduled in Turkey tommorow I think

The Azeri provocations in Karabakh are part of it, to put pressure on Russia (Iran has already said it would intervene to protect Armenia in response),
as is the French-Turkish-Greek mission to evacuate the Azov battalion from Mariupol,
Ukrainians have pulled up a large number of forces to the Kherson-Nikolayev regional border, which may be part of the pressure, or more likely - the deal

Russia may get LNR/DNR recognition, and a neutral Ukraine. Maybe taking Kherson as well and Melitopol, and it would get its side of the story told as well in Western media as evidence has been put together and there are journalists on the Russian side from European countries as well (although not from any mainstream media). And possibly sanctions relief and a release of its funds, in return for part of those funds being used to rebuild the Ukraine via contracts for European companies.

But overall I don't like it. Especially if Kherson, Melitopol are given up, that would a great betrayal, as well as the settlements around Kharkov that accepted Russian forces.
Another big problem would be this myth of great Ukrainian resistance that would be used to cement the Ukraine as an anti-Russia.
I don't think the war should have been started, but at this point there's no turning back. Putin and his staff miscalculated a lot of things, but what's the alternative now. The regime has to be toppled and the state rebuilt.