Isos wrote:Ukrainians shooting on captured russians !! Graphic video.
[emquote class=[/embed]
Videos should be saved do u have proper links this embedding doesn't work on mobile
Use the button web version of the forum and it will work.
The twitter accoubt I found it was WithinSyria but you can find it by searching on twitter with key words like POW ukraine shoot. It was shared everywhere.
GarryB wrote:Kornet and Sosna/Pine works the same but the launcher has an auto target tracker that follows the target automatically... the operater just launches the missile... the Kornet is slower at about mach 2, but the Sosna is faster at over 1km/s.
N-LAW is the only ATGM with an in built Fire Control Computer that can track a moving target and remain locked on to it.
With a 600m range, you don't need a fire control. It's pretty easy to fire at such targets.
N-LAW has a max range os 1.2 miles. I'll wager RPG 30 will also miss a moving target.
It is not easy to hit a moving target especially when it is travelling at very high speed. That's what the Fire Control Computer is for, to enable the N-LAW to hit fast moving target.
An RPG or N-LAW type system is certainly better than nothing for AT use
But really if you have to use it, you're already in trouble, and at most I have counted two tanks in the conflict so far that have been engaged by them, although again - we can't really track the war through media and footage. One was the DNR tank which made the mistake of racing down some road alone in Mariupol. Another was that Russian motor-rifles column early in the war. The tank was at least damaged, but the RPG team was engaged immediately and taken out. This shows the limitation of such systems; they can't be used in place of ATGMs, as some stand-off range ambush weapon. They're basically a last-ditch means for infantry that find themselves confronted by enemy armour at close range without their own present to help them. Or for setting up ambushes from buildings, but an experienced opponent will avoid any such ambushes.
Vast majority of cases such systems are used for engaging infantry, fortifications, or troops encamped in buildings. These are all stationary targets
It's not so much a fire control computer that's needed, as better optics and some limited guidance/course correction, like beam-riding or laser-guided, but done cheaply - only slight correction is needed through the ailerons just to make sure that the rocket goes to where you're aiming by correcting for wind and ballistics. You fit that to some reloadable system capable of taking thermobaric rounds, and you have yourself a portable bunker-buster.
Last edited by flamming_python on Mon Mar 28, 2022 12:57 pm; edited 3 times in total
GarryB, Werewolf, RTN and GunshipDemocracy like this post
14:13 Red Cross provides some 350 mln rubles to help refugees from Ukraine evacuated to Russia - Russian Red Cross https://www.militarynews.ru/default.asp?lang=eng
Ukraine pleads with Red Cross not to open office near its border in Russia https://www.rt.com/russia/552832-ukraine-pleads-red-cross/
GarryB, magnumcromagnon, kvs, miketheterrible, LMFS, lancelot, Broski and like this post
franco wrote:14:13 Red Cross provides some 350 mln rubles to help refugees from Ukraine evacuated to Russia - Russian Red Cross https://www.militarynews.ru/default.asp?lang=eng
Ukraine pleads with Red Cross not to open office near its border in Russia https://www.rt.com/russia/552832-ukraine-pleads-red-cross/
Red cross isn't to be trusted but it's rather scathing how obvious politicized this situation is that westerners are too stupid to realize.
GarryB, franco, magnumcromagnon, Big_Gazza, kvs, GunshipDemocracy, Mir and like this post
JohninMK wrote:IWN @A7_Mirza · 2h #Russia #Ukraine #UkraineRussia #UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace said the #Starstreak short-range MANPADS that travels at Mach 4 to take down low-flying enemy jets is ready to be used imminently and Ukrainian troops had been trained and were now deployed with Starstreak.
I am not sure about the practical effectiveness of these complexes. The mass of the warhead is 3*0.9 kilograms, the warhead is three tungsten darts. Basically, it looks like they make a through hole in an airplane or helicopter without touching vital components and assemblies. For comparison, the mass of the warhead in the Verba MANPADS is 1.75 kilograms, almost twice as much as each of the Starstreak subelements.
It's also needs a direct hit. While other MANPADS have proximity fuses. It's also one of if not the most expensive MANPADS on the market.
GarryB, magnumcromagnon, kvs, GunshipDemocracy, lancelot and Mir like this post
Very distant shelling over the last 3–4 days. There have been occasional flybys over the city center, but fighting in the northeast seems to have quieted. But I could be wrong, I am deliberately far away.
1/6 It is no longer possible to leave Kharkov. The roads out are blocked by multiple checkpoints by both sides.
Word is that AFU checkpoints demand bribes in dollars, while Russian checkpoints have itchy trigger fingers because so many “civilian” cars have armed AFU fighters.
2/6 The food situation in Kharkov is good. I estimate >85% of the population has left. So although no goods are coming in, the goods here are enough for everyone. Supermarkets open on a rotating basis, announced online every morning. No meats/fish, few veggies, lots of .
3/6 (I have eaten some of the best bread of my life during this time of the siege of Kharkov. All natural, no preservatives, warm and crackling good. I know what I’m talking about, bread-wise—I used to live in Paris and Viña del Mar.)
4/6 All basic services ( heat) are working properly, though of course there is no customer service. Garbage men are making the rounds sporadically; there are no longer those enormous mounds of garbage from the early days. Gasoline is gone.
5/6 It’s obvious that the fighting here will continue without any breakthrough. The Russian forces definitely do not mean to take the city in an assault. They are clearly trying to pin down AFU forces. So Kharkov will fall once the decisive battles have concluded in the Donbas.
GarryB, xeno, magnumcromagnon, Airbornewolf, Big_Gazza, kvs, zepia and like this post
franco wrote:14:13 Red Cross provides some 350 mln rubles to help refugees from Ukraine evacuated to Russia - Russian Red Cross https://www.militarynews.ru/default.asp?lang=eng
Ukraine pleads with Red Cross not to open office near its border in Russia https://www.rt.com/russia/552832-ukraine-pleads-red-cross/
I like the way Kiev tries to twist the narrative and claim the Russians are abducting the citizens of Donbass which Kiev have been shelling for the past 8 years. That is so desperate, Kiev must be really running out of propaganda ideas.
GarryB, franco, magnumcromagnon, Big_Gazza, GunshipDemocracy, Mir, Broski and Podlodka77 like this post
Red Cross is less bad than some other aid organizations. But you have to see that it is kind of decentralized. So it depends on the country it operates from and the people themselves on how corrupt the actual outfit we are talking about is. It is certainly miles better than CIA fronts like USAID and their ilk.
flamming_python wrote:Does the N-LAW have guidance?
Or is it just to calculate the trajectory of the vehicle and provide a corrected crosshair for the operator?
NLAW missiles uses predictive line of sight technology. The guidance package calculates both the distance to the target and the target’s speed (if its mobile), and guides itself to the predicted location. With this, a single soldier can snipe a tank at range.
Isos wrote:Where do you see fast moving targets ?
MBTs, IFVs will have a top speed in excess of 50mph. That's enough speed to dodge any incoming ATGM. N-LAW was designed keeping this challenge in mind.
Isos wrote:Rpg-30 is just as good and cheaper.
Little to no guidance whatsoever. It's like firing a bullet. If you are a good shot then maybe you can hit the target, that too provided the target is stationary and not moving.
It's a pity we didn't keep a running record of Ukrainian air force, and AD losses versus the quantity they had, would give us an indication of what they have left.
Also anyone found a Way to get Sputnik news yet still seems blocked
flamming_python wrote:An RPG or N-LAW type system is certainly better than nothing for AT use
But really if you have to use it, you're already in trouble, and at most I have counted two tanks in the conflict so far that have been engaged by them, although again - we can't really track the war through media and footage. One was the DNR tank which made the mistake of racing down some road alone in Mariupol. Another was that Russian motor-rifles column early in the war. The tank was at least damaged, but the RPG team was engaged immediately and taken out. This shows the limitation of such systems; they can't be used in place of ATGMs, as some stand-off range ambush weapon. They're basically a last-ditch means for infantry that find themselves confronted by enemy armour at close range without their own present to help them. Or for setting up ambushes from buildings, but an experienced opponent will avoid any such ambushes.
Vast majority of cases such systems are used for engaging infantry, fortifications, or troops encamped in buildings. These are all stationary targets
It's not so much a fire control computer that's needed, as better optics and some limited guidance/course correction, like beam-riding or laser-guided, but done cheaply - only slight correction is needed through the ailerons just to make sure that the rocket goes to where you're aiming by correcting for wind and ballistics. You fit that to some reloadable system capable of taking thermobaric rounds, and you have yourself a portable bunker-buster.
Most of the images being released by Ukrainian surrogate accounts shows Ukranian military armed with local RPGs and not NLAWS or Javelin.
Maybe local RPGs proved to be much more credible than the over hyped western ATGMs.
For western governments the purported use of NLAWs and Javelin is just a sales pitch to Asian and African countries.
Maybe Russia should release a video to show how ineffective western ATGMs have been.
GarryB, d_taddei2, GunshipDemocracy, Hole and Broski like this post
The Ukraine is asking for tanks from former eastern bloc countries
T-72M4 CZs, the Polish PT-91s presumably, T-72M1s, etc..
Again, shows that their own have been put out of action in large quantities. Only the brigades in Odessa and Western Ukraine still have a full complement.
The Ukraine started mobilizing more troops 3 weeks ago or so, but the problem was that there was nothing to equip them with, other than small arms.
Ghastly, all this stuff..
Last edited by flamming_python on Mon Mar 28, 2022 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
d_taddei2, GunshipDemocracy, Mir and Autodestruct like this post
flamming_python wrote: Ukrainian soldier captured seems to be high on something. He is in a good mood at least, says he's being treated well https://t.me/intelslava/23748
Haha, some comic relief... Drugs or not, he looks like a typical Gena & Vovan type of guy if you know what I mean. No one will hurt him at least. These videos work much better than videos of abuse.
flamming_python wrote:
The Javelin has not been too highly regarded by the DNR. They called it more of a propaganda weapon.
There was another AT system that was looked upon as more of an RPG-7 just with some tacticool gimmicks
Not sure about the N-LAW, the DNR have captured quite a number of them.
As I heard one of the problems was that the Western-supplied weapons were not even getting to the front-line troops in sizeable quantities.
Ukraine barely has any armored targets to use these Javelins for and it seems it never ended up in the ranks of frontline soldiers en mass. They are probably saving them for Kiev.
I don't think DNR guys would benefit to carry bulky and awkward Javelins and use them in offensive operations. NLAW in this regard seems much better hence why DNR learned how to operate them and introduced to their army.
And tacticool RPG was one of the few ones from US company. Not sure why you need so many picatinny rails on a system, makes no sense.
flamming_python, GunshipDemocracy, Mir and Broski like this post
lancelot wrote:Red Cross is less bad than some other aid organizations. But you have to see that it is kind of decentralized. So it depends on the country it operates from and the people themselves on how corrupt the actual outfit we are talking about is. It is certainly miles better than CIA fronts like USAID and their ilk.
Ukrainians hate Red Cross and ask people not to donate to them... They say that there are plenty of Russians working there. Well if it operates in Russia then ofc it will have Russians working there... Another gripe they have with them is that most of the donations go to Red Cross worker's wages. But then again, Red Cross employs plenty of medical professionals and they do need to get paid... I have mixed feelings about aid organizations myself as sometimes they are being infiltrated or subverted.
flamming_python wrote:The Ukraine is asking for tanks from former eastern bloc countries
T-72M4 CZs, the Polish PT-91s presumably, T-72M1s, etc..
Again, shows that their own have been put out of action in large quantities. Only the brigades in Odessa and Western Ukraine still have a full complement.
The Ukraine started mobilizing more troops 3 weeks ago or so, but the problem was that there was nothing to equip them with, other than small arms.
Ghastly, all this stuff..
Shows just how much armour Ukraine has lost. Even if they got tanks from other nations they would only make it to Western Ukraine. Russia would bomb rail networks, so only option is by truck transports which are slow and easy to spot and target, and woutonly be able to use main roads and bridges capable of carrying such enormous weights, and so they have enough tank transports or do they need them as well? And don't forget Ukrainian forces are trained on T-62, T-64, T-80/84. They never really used T-72 although fundamentals are the same it's still not like for like and it will handle and fire differently so novice crew status it would be. And do they have enough tank crews ? Or will they be giving them to territorial defence forces so they can crash I to civilian cars again? This time more lethal. And EU nations as far as I am aware don't have any T-62, T-64, T-80/84. Also unless they are getting the new upgraded versions of T-72 then what ever they get will be old variants. And if they get any other type of tank Leopards, AMX, etc then it will be very novice crew status. And let's not forget what iskander did in Georgia to a bunch of T-72.
But let's not forget the promise of aircraft and how that went.
GarryB, Big_Gazza, GunshipDemocracy, VARGR198, miketheterrible, Hole, mavaff and like this post
flamming_python wrote: Ukrainian soldier captured seems to be high on something. He is in a good mood at least, says he's being treated well https://t.me/intelslava/23748
Haha, some comic relief... Drugs or not, he looks like a typical Gena & Vovan type of guy if you know what I mean. No one will hurt him at least. These videos work much better than videos of abuse.
flamming_python wrote:
The Javelin has not been too highly regarded by the DNR. They called it more of a propaganda weapon.
There was another AT system that was looked upon as more of an RPG-7 just with some tacticool gimmicks
Not sure about the N-LAW, the DNR have captured quite a number of them.
As I heard one of the problems was that the Western-supplied weapons were not even getting to the front-line troops in sizeable quantities.
Ukraine barely has any armored targets to use these Javelins for and it seems it never ended up in the ranks of frontline soldiers en mass. They are probably saving them for Kiev.
I don't think DNR guys would benefit to carry bulky and awkward Javelins and use them in offensive operations. NLAW in this regard seems much better hence why DNR learned how to operate them and introduced to their army.
And tacticool RPG was one of the few ones from US company. Not sure why you need so many picatinny rails on a system, makes no sense.
It seems one of the main problem of Western weapons is that they attempt to solve use-cases or problems that either don't really exist, or crop up rarely. The result is overengineering and more expensive, bulky and complicated weapons.
The British Starstreak hasn't been put into action yet. But it looks like an expensive, stationary solution which defeats the whole point of MANPADs, and its ability to kill targets hasn't been proven yet. You won't use such a system against jets; you won't have time. Against helicopters - a beam-riding missile is not a bad idea, but it can be solved with a simpler system
The Javelin attacks the top-armour. Sounds great. But against how many tanks, in practice, would you need to use that against, when that Ukrainian ATGM with a remote-weapons station does the same job but with greater operator safety and portability, and would penetrate the tanks used in this conflict? The Kornet ATGM even more so, it's capable of destroying everything bar the Merkava IV from the front most probably, and at a considerably greater range than the Javelin.
The tacticool RPG.. why? If you want better sights; those should be specific to the RPG system and the ballistics of the rocket anyway.
The N-LAW, tries to solve a use-case that you wouldn't want to be involved with. Ambushing some convoy racing along the road at high speed. You won't be able to use it from such long range anyway, which means you'll be targeted back. You'll be better off bringing an ATGM to your ambush point. Which leaves its primary use case as the same as the RPG, a last-ditch AT weapon when the tank is nearby or facing you, or ambushing from buildings. Here it doesn't offer any particular advantages. But at least it's free if the British supply it, and compact enough.
Last edited by flamming_python on Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
GarryB, Regular, Big_Gazza, GunshipDemocracy, lyle6 and Broski like this post
Home
Latest images
Register
Log in
flamming_python
.
heat) are working properly, though of course there is no customer service. Garbage men are making the rounds sporadically; there are no longer those enormous mounds of garbage from the early days. Gasoline is gone.
