Russian special military operation in Ukraine #9

Arkanghelsk wrote:If they sign a deal then so be it,  they sent a guy like medinsky,  well it would make us fools to pretend they didn't already make this deal behind closed doors

I can't say I didn't see it coming, I didn't want to see it, but I am not a decision maker

We're all hostages to this so , let them do what they must if it will end this disaster

Any pride we had was thrown in a trash compactor so , life goes on

They will sign a deal I think

At the maximum, there might be a need for a little more persuasion by closing the Donbass pocket and advancing towards Pridnestrovie

But I think the Ukrainians got the message already

And really the new economic order is already being formed. The EU has a looming mass economic crisis. The US too. The dollar is going away as the dominant currency of world trade, being replaced by a basket of currencies.
Why would the Ukrainian elite be interested now in going that direction? They still have some independence left, they're not totally under the thumb of America - as evidenced by their attempt at earlier selling Motor Sich to China before Washington blocked it.
They will have enough independence to switch sides now.

But yes, get ready for them to present things as a 'victory', and for Russian funds and Chinese investments to pay for the war damage, and in general for fixing this wreck of a country. And for the nationalists to be steadily pushed to the rims of society, but in return they will remain unpunished.

It's not a disaster, it's a victory for Russia. Russia was not defeated on the battlefield and achieved its war goals basically - it's true war goals, not the ones it used to get all the uber-patriots down with the program.

First rule: If you can not mount it, throw a 500kg bomb on it. It does not play a rolle if there is still important in it. So this must not fall into the hands of the enemy.

The same with the TorM2 at the beginning of the operation.
It remains and can not be moved? Ok, then destroy. No matter what it costs. Nothing may be sent to NATO, nothing.

The retreat is demoralizing. I do not like it.

Especially the retreat east of the river, what should the? The task west, lack of connections to the eastern part, ok ... but not the north eastern part of Kyiv give up.

I m would have at least trying to keep the room with less forces instead of giving up everything.

I see little sense there and there were too many losses to remove now.

NATO will see it as an encouragement.

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:First rule: If you can not mount it, throw a 500kg bomb on it. It does not play a rolle if there is still important in it. So this must not fall into the hands of the enemy.

The same with the TorM2 at the beginning of the operation.
It remains and can not be moved? Ok, then destroy. No matter what it costs. Nothing may be sent to NATO, nothing.

The retreat is demoralizing. I do not like it.

Especially the retreat east of the river, what should the? The task west, lack of connections to the eastern part, ok ... but not the north eastern part of Kyiv give up.

I m would have at least trying to keep the room with less forces instead of giving up everything.

I see little sense there and there were too many losses to remove now.

NATO will see it as an encouragement.

The retreat is part of the deal. A good faith move if you will. Medinsky said as much.

Now the Ukrainians can always go back on the good faith. In which case we'll see more Russian advances. But I'm optimistic an understanding has been reached.

limb wrote:

I never got an answer why Russia simply doesn't commit more equipment. It has so many more soldiers in reserve.

Probably a combination of things :

Fear of instability in Russia if large mobilisation
Worrying about NATO
Lack of resources/logistics for such a mobilisation
They think/hope they can achieve whatever goals they have with the men and materiel they have already
Or they think they’ve made a massive miscalculation/mistake
Etc

Seems to be a moot point anyway now. We’re in the downward slide to an agreement.

Big_Gazza wrote:If one commits too many troops you lose the ability to recycle troops on a routine basis to allow troops to rest and recuperate.  Russia can keep 200k troops in the field and fighting on a continual basis.  They couldn't do that with 500k.

Russia is fighting a smart war, and keeping the bulk of her military power available should NATO do something stupid.  It will take longer to achieve their goals, and will be a more complex operation but it is best option to keep losses to a minimum.  Depleting ordnance stores in a massive bombardment and zerging the Uruks in a mass assault will severely reduce Russian overall military deterrence against a terminally-butthurt NATO.  Only a fool would conduct the war in such a way.

Plus the critical ingredient: no-one in any war discloses their gameplan and certainly Russia's General Staff does not give a damn about some random twat in the internet not fully approving their strategy. That these guys actually think that they are entitled to professional military to descend to their underground intellectual level for them to receive convincing explanations about what is done is outright hilarious.

We don't fucking know what they plan and how it will be implemented, what were the setbacks and what the successes. The so called "fog of war" is not some idle thought, it is the essence of battle. You cannot analyse with a minimum certainty until you have hard facts coherently accumulating in time, like the systematic destruction of targets in Ukraine, and any hypothesis about the actual goals and balance of forces need to be checked for plausibility continuously and in regard of each side's past and present motives, tactics and statements. Being prudent in judgement and keeping a cool head is paramount, now here some fools are simply losing their shit over some possible setbacks as if they expected their existential enemies to immediately fold back at the first push. Probably this is one of the sad but necessary results of war, the purification of the Russian (and global to a extent) society, creating a clear separation between those with a spine, ready to stand their ground oblivious to fear, and those without it, surrendering at the first difficulty. In other words, that strong people that create good times, as the saying goes, is forged in circumstances such as these.

For instance, see this take:



Gonzalo Lira

This anon nails it.

People in the West do not understand how the atrocities committed by Ukrainian forces against the Russian POWs has completely changed the war.

Putin now has over 80% approval rating, and this calculated by an anti-Putin organization. Russians I talk to all say that many people were against the war initially — but even anti-Putin Russians are now in favor of the war.

Ukraine will be taken apart. This is now inevitable. The Russians are going to deliberately annihilate the Ukraine Armed Forces: First at Kramatorsk, and then if the AFU is still standing and still resists, wherever else they assemble, likely Kharkov.

If at the start of this war Russia was interested in having a land bridge from the Donbass to Crimea, now they want the entire coast of the Black Sea, including Odessa.

Russian media was very strict about calling this a “special military operation” — but now, Russian commentators are openly calling it a war.

It is now a war of conquest.

Right or wrong? It can be argued that if ukie forces are baited into the Donbass out of Kiev and other towns and annihilated in the open, then it would be a brilliant plan that would allow Russia to take the rest of Ukraine far easier afterwards. In war an incredible victory and an abject failure are centimeters apart, so we cannot be sure until we see further developments, but what is clear is that a nation like Russia was not created and preserved by pushovers.

Some victory, one must have no shame to sell this as some kind of victory for Russia

It's a disaster, but oh well, if the Ukrainians come around great

Most likely they won't, most likely they will spit on our faces like they have for the last 30 days

If they sell it as a hohol victory. Well they earned it, our side gave them the victory , and they fought tooth and nail , so give it to them, to hell with it

I just hope we can get rid of our leadership, although I doubt it

So incompetence will reign

Russia gets nothing out of the deal, it's the mission accomplished moment for Putin.

We walk away with nothing except our balls cut off a knife in our eye , and nazis calling our moms to yell Slava ukraina

They lost 30,000 men, but they keep their pride and their victory

It's like chechen war 1

Я жду ответа...больше надежд нету...

Lurk83 wrote:

limb wrote:

I never got an answer why Russia simply doesn't commit more equipment. It has so many more soldiers in reserve.

Probably a combination of things :

Fear of instability in Russia if large mobilisation
Worrying about NATO
Lack of resources/logistics for such a mobilisation
They think/hope they can achieve whatever goals they have with the men and materiel they have already
Or they think they’ve made a massive miscalculation/mistake
Etc

Seems to be a moot point anyway now. We’re in the downward slide to an agreement.

An agreement was the goal since day 1, and Russia was asking for such and conducting negotiations to that aim

Russia doesn't need the Donbass, or Novorussia or whatever. It needs the whole of Ukraine.

It wanted to gain leverage a different way, by splitting the elites, scaring them, or stationing in more cities - but then it switched to plan B to create a real military threat to the 2 main Ukrainian army groupings - the one in the Donbass and the one near Odessa.

If that doesn't work out, then Russia will move towards forcing capitulation, but this was always the last resort

Lukashenko said the Ukraine will enter the Union State in 15 years time. This is the goal.

Arkanghelsk wrote:Some victory, one must have no shame to sell this as some kind of victory for Russia

It's a disaster, but oh well, if the Ukrainians come around great

Most likely they won't,  most likely they will spit on our faces like they have for the last 30 days

If they sell it as a hohol victory. Well they earned it, our side gave them the victory , and they fought tooth and nail , so give it to them, to hell with it

I just hope we can get rid of our leadership,  although I doubt it

So incompetence will reign

Russia gets nothing out of the deal,  it's the mission accomplished moment for Putin.

We walk away with nothing except our balls cut off a knife in our eye , and nazis calling our moms to yell Slava ukraina

They lost 30,000 men, but they keep their pride and their victory

It's like chechen war 1

Я жду ответа...больше надежд нету...

Of course they keep their pride and victory

Else it wouldn't be a voluntary 'switch of sides', it would be an occupation.

But I frankly don't care. You were keen on a war, it's what you got, and Russia won and got what it wanted out of it. Be happy.

I'll have to see the final peace deal myself before I can say who really won, that's if there is one and so far Russia has not stated a deal is reached and they will pull back.

We disgraced ourselves in 1991

This is like a bad loan we are paying for residually,

But the enthusiasm is a nice token of appreciation thank you for your support

Flaming, yeah can't disagree well I was wrong , many were, that's life

I was enthusiastic for new Russia

But same old

Arkanghelsk wrote:If they sign a deal then so be it,  they sent a guy like medinsky,  well it would make us fools to pretend they didn't already make this deal behind closed doors

I can't say I didn't see it coming, I didn't want to see it, but I am not a decision maker

We're all hostages to this so , let them do what they must if it will end this disaster

Any pride we had was thrown in a trash compactor so , life goes on

So if they made a deal to
1) get rid of NATO presence from Ukraine

2) control ore less Black Sea coast

3) stop nazis from governing & not anymore teaching of Nazi worship cult

4) keeping hands on pulse - with Russia friendly opposition parties


it doesn't look that bad tbh.  People all over Ukraine remember (older USSR and ) all nazi ruling.  Do you think hurt, robed or suppressed population is going to love nazis again?

Reconstruction - do you really think Russia will agree to pay contributions as by unconditional surrender?! yet somebody has to pay for new Mariupol, roads, railways or oil terminals...why not eu?

Link to the details of this deal if you have it because I cannot find any official sources that claim this.

Gunship democracy:


1) get rid of NATO presence from Ukraine
Says who? We have no idea if putin will stop the army at the border of donetsk

2) control ore less Black Sea coast
We have no idea about this

3) stop nazis from governing & not anymore teaching of Nazi worship cult

Where was it stopped?

4) keeping hands on pulse - with Russia friendly opposition parties

What Russia friendly parties

it doesn't look that bad tbh.  People all over Ukraine remember (older USSR and ) all nazi ruling.  Do you think hurt, robed or suppressed population is going to love nazis again?

Reconstruction - do you really think Russia will agree to pay contributions as by unconditional surrender?! yet somebody has to pay for new Mariupol, roads, railways or oil terminals...why not eu? 

Doesn't look that bad...? Well I'd like to have what you have!

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Link to the details of this deal if you have it.

link to what non existing deal? I said

"if they have it"

. Is there anything on TASS or RIA? nuttin.


. if there will be any no doubt it will be something solid for Russia. Otherwise why that war? To delay bio and nukes by 5 years? + pay contributions?

LMFS wrote:

and the rest of former Ukraine as Russia's protectorate

GunshipDemocracy wrote:

SeigSoloyvov wrote:Link to the details of this deal if you have it.

link to what non existing deal? I said "if they have it" . Is there anything on TASS or RIA? nuttin.

I hope there is a peace deal that sees denazification, permanent Ukrainian demilitarization other than a 10 to 50 thousand man internal police force with no air force, tanks, artillery, or missiles of any sort.  I hope said deal is permanent recognition of Donbass' independence and Crimean joining Russia.  

That said, at the same time, I understand the anger about the Kiev front, but again Kiev and Nikolayevsk/Odessa were always to pin down Ukrainian forces.  This war has not really ever been about occupation.  Its about destroying the Ukrainian ability to wage an offensive war and to encourage -with as few civilian losses as possible - the Ukrainians to get to the negotiating table to hammer out a lasting peace that forever slams shut Ukraine as a gateway for invasion into Russia.

GunshipDemocracy wrote:and the rest of  former Ukraine as Russia's protectorate

Do you mean the Malorossian Federation?

Airbornewolf wrote:

flamming_python wrote:That Ka-52 which was forced to land after taking damage during the battle of Gostomel is still there. Ukrainian troops took a photo with it.

https://t.me/istorijaoruzija/51066

Begs the question of why it wasn't taken away by Russian forces, or destroyed

Or does Russia want NATO to inspect it?

I would have expected it too to be hit with an strike to be honest.
but...i guess the Russians really do not see this as an threat that it lies there?.

I dont know the design of th KA-52, can the pilots take out/destroy all the critical systems themselves in an short amount of time?.
if they can take the drives and computers, the thing is just an useless hulk.
There seemed to be a lot of disconnected wires in shots that where connected to systems somewhere.

As pointed out, the helicopter was landed and the crew dismounted. Compared to older video's we can see that circuit boards en drives are removed from the open hatch in the fuselage, and there has been some "rummaging" in the cockpit. Its not clear by which side this was done at this point.
If the helicopter was landed in a difficult to reach or exposed location, then why not put at least 1 or 2 ATGM's in it before withdrawing? I am sure they had plenty of those available. We can see Vikhrs still in their cannisters (though likely damaged). This is unfortunate....

If even only to stop the enemy from recuperating the 30mm ammo.

While the Russian special ops in Ukraine has diverted global attention towards Ukraine, Britain has taken the opportunity to release a new COVID variant. After suffering huge loses in Ukraine, the West is probably trying to wage a biological warfare against Russia.

https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/new-covid-mutant-variant-xe-omicron-china-report-1932579-2022-04-02

So based on the videos that we have seen so far what we notice is that the West has trained the Ukrainians to ambush Russian tanks by first firing at the powerpack in the rear to disable them & after the crew abandons the MBT, the Ukrainians get inside the abandoned MBT’s turret & attach explosives to the armoured carousel containing the rounds & this is then blown up, leading to catastrophic detonation of the ammunition bustles & the subsequent separation of the turret from the hull.

In addition, the Ukrainians have resorted to firing their LAWs from dominating heights of abandoned buildings at steep angles, which then causes the Russian Army to fire back at those areas of the buildings with MBT cannons. The end-result is then portrayed as Russian destruction of civilian infrastructure—typical information warfare & psychological warfare tactics.

LMFS wrote:

That ship sailed back in 2014

Now the play is for the whole of the Ukraine

Sujoy wrote:So based on the videos that we have seen so far what we notice is that the West has trained the Ukrainians to ambush Russian tanks by first firing at the powerpack in the rear to disable them & after the crew abandons the MBT, the Ukrainians get inside the abandoned MBT’s turret & attach explosives to the armoured carousel containing the rounds & this is then blown up, leading to catastrophic detonation of the ammunition bustles & the subsequent separation of the turret from the hull.

I doubt that. Russian tanks don't travel alone.

The most they would have detonated are abandoned tanks they found