You cannot compare a "tracking" radar with a search radar. Even if the 3P41 (Top Dome) radar was dealing with drone threats, this is a tracking radar, you cannot detect an air threat with it.
Congrats, you just showed you don't know what you are talking about.
If a tracking radar can't detect an air threat then what the **** does it do?
Search radars normally scan in complete circles to offer 360 degree coverage... and what they do is scan the airspace around the vessel or vehicle or location looking for potential threats... when they spot threats they don't stop and focus on that threat they keep scanning the airspace looking for threats... they are used for detection... not for fine tracking and engagement.
Once the search radar has detected a threat the tracking radar will be directed to detect and track it giving more than just location information but also speed and direction and altitude.
If the main search radar was scanning for drone threats then it would have been operating at full power and its longer wave length would make smaller targets easier to spot than with higher frequency tracking radar.
I repeat, search radars just search, they are detection only... they might rotate 12 times a minute so they go around every 5 seconds or so which means they don't get enough data on a fast moving target to properly track like a tracking radar which points at the target and electronically scans its field of view which might be 60 degrees several times a second.
A Zircon missile would appear in one place during a search radar scan and then when the scanning beam came around again it would be 15km away from its previous location... so it only tracks targets in the absolute loosest sense.
It would be more accurate to say the search radar detects threats and keeps a loose eye on those threats while the air defence system engages them 6 at a time.
The most dangerous target is handed to the tracking system which engages the target while the search radar continues to monitor the other air targets... when the threats are engaged then the next most dangerous target is then engaged... the tracking radar for the S-300F can engage 6 targets at one time with 12 missiles so two incoming fighter planes launching two missiles each could all be engaged at once using mach 5 plus S-300 missiles, with two missiles heading for each plane and each of the four missiles those planes launched. If it was two planes attacking from opposite directions then each plane and the missiles launched would be engaged one at a time, but any missiles they launched would be engaged by 30mm gatling fire and OSA missile if they are not hit by Fort-Ms.
When it entered service the Fort M outranged most air launched anti ship missiles so it would most likely be shot down plane and no missiles to deal with meaning 6 fighters could be shot down in each engagement...
So, the assumption that Top Plate was monitoring the drone, so it didn't see the Neptune" is completely wrong.
The power levels needed to spot a low RCS target like a drone would mean it would spot anti ship missiles too.
Another issue is the coverage of the trackers. Because of the ship's design, every tracker has a blind sector. However, there are some other trackers that can illuminate the dark sectors and continuously track a threat. When tracking an air contact with Top Plate, for example, if the contact moves to the blind sector you can relay the track to the Pop Group tracker and keep contact under control. Pop Group is not designed to guide S-300F, but you have the track, if you decide to engage the threat with S-300F you can make a ship maneuver and relay the contact to Top Dome and fire missile
The altimeter of the anti-ship missiles adjusts the height of the missile from the peak point of a wave. So, if a missile flies at 80 ft altitude, this value is for sea state 0. If a wave height is around 2 meters, The flying altitude of the missile becomes ~90 ft.If a radar can detect a sea skimming missile, it can detect it in any sea state. Of course, sea clutter has an impact on maintaining the track, but the radar can detect the missile and may encounter some difficulties in maintaining the track.
Which is the opposite of what you said before.... you essentially said the Mosvka was dead meat because the tracking system of the S-300F has blind spots, but the radar horizon and the minimum range of the S-300F means it wont be used to shoot down incoming anti ship missiles unless they are flying at a high altitude to conserve fuel for a long range hit.
The Moskva uses OSA and 30mm gatlings to defend against sea skimming missiles and they are positioned to not have blind spots because they cover each others arcs.
Comment: This is assuming that in fact Ukraine has anti-ship missiles and they have sunk the cruiser Moskva.
Even if they didn't it is still something they should be aware of.
I have to call out from time to time a AMERICUNT man who admires Steven Spielberg’s film and he thinks that PRIVATE RYAN is a a symbol of American patriotism
It is a war and tempers are high, but I would suggest you and others tone it down a bit.
WTF are they using up these weapons on? And at this rate? Are they just selling them on the black market or something? I mean, it's Ukraine, that's kinda their shtick.
They are pleading for more so someone has a good buyer...
I can't comment on his books, since I haven't read them.
I know Tom, from the Key publishing forum, he is ex US Navy I think... he loves the F-14 and is very pro Iranian for an American, but also anti Russian.
We weren't friends.
Would trust him much despite the books he has written on conflict in the Middle East.
Those ukrainian t-64 are very impressive. They seem very hard to destroy. They must be empty of shells, there is almost never catastrophic kills on them.
Russian t-72 and t-80 also suffer far far less catastrophic kills than export versions.
The period of catastrophic kills stems from the days when they were fully loaded with ammo. The two piece 125mm round has a rear propellent stub made of cardboard impregnated with propellent... a spark or hot piece of metal landing on such a thing would immediately and violently ignite it which would of course spread to nearby propellent stubs and of course any APFSDS rounds which are metal darts encased in propellent too.
The T-72 and T-90 carry 22 rounds in its underfloor autoloader and the rest of the rounds carried by the tank are located inside the crew compartment and next to the driver so any penetration wont effect or get to the rounds in the autoloader unless it is very well aimed, but the loose ammo is often enough to create a fire that is obviously very dangerous in a confined area. Even when you empty your gun autoloader it takes time to move the ammo from inside the crew compartment and load it into the auto loader so it just makes sense to load the autoloader and leave the rest of the ammo behind in a safe place where you can go back and reload.
The result is the tank is less likely to explode when hit and 22 rounds is a lot fo targets destroyed anyway.
For the T-64/T-80 the autoloader holds 28 rounds but the propellent stubs are vertical instead of horizontal making them easier to hit and when the turret is penetrated and a shower of sparks goes around inside the turret the propellent stubs in the autoloader are not as well protected as they are in the T-72/90 which has a sheet metal cover to protect it...
A lot is said about their location because if the ammo is hit the crew don't have much of a chance, but the location means it is rather hard to hit reliably... they had designs with turret bustle autoloaders with straight line rammers for long rod penetrators but turret bustles are too easy to hit and would be too vulnerable in combat... even with blow out panels.
Experience in later wars where enemies had more powerful ATGMs than old 73mm RPG-7 rockets with 250mm penetration shows western tanks are also vulnerable to side and rear attacks.
It is only going to get worse for Europe, you still have more Ukrainians coming in, you still millions of Afghans that coming in the summer, with a shot ton Africas.
Sounds like America is trying to destroy the EU along with Russia... and the EU are helping them.
Apparently Quintana was a civilian who went to Mariupol to find his son. He was married to a Ukrainian lady. There's even a website 'help find Alexander'. Sad story this, he ended up killed like many other civilians.
And you believe them? Sounds like a good cover. A bit like CIA visits captured US spy in Russia and gives him some pills to make his appear to be very sick and have not long left to live... Russians release him on compassionate grounds and he makes a full recovery...
What was his son doing there?
Murdering Ukrainian civilians and claiming they were Russian spies no doubt.
BTW can you do something about fellow Serb Podlodka? He's outta control!
Well he is upset but to be fair the EU and US did this to his country so I guess he is feeling some strong feelings now... especially when the people being killed are not normally killed like American soldiers who like to kill others for all sorts of reasons.
Even if this guys story is true I would suspect he wanted his kid and wife to leave but the nazis probably wouldn't let them... they are not letting any civies leave if they can help it, so perhaps he thought he could get them to listen to him and they clearly didn't let him leave either, which would make him a victim of the creatures his country created.
Frankenstein being killed by his own creation... hard to feel sorry for him to be honest.
Fascinating, I am an American civilian and I have no desire to get anywhere near anyone else's warzone. Yeah, this guy is a merc. Give him a long prison sentence to cure him of his exceptionalism.
Not sure he survived.
Module-A and MPK
I guess the SVP-24 system is cheaper.
They are different, they are glide modules for standoff use of bombs, so they can be released at altitude and a decent distance away from the target.
Very interesting! Paper project and mockups, or did Bazalt ever test it?
They have been shown for quite some time... would add to that the Grom and Grom 2 standoff munitions... the first essentially being a rocket powered glide bomb and the second being the same thing with a shorter range and the rocket module replaced with more HE for shorter ranged engagements of heavier targets... both weapons based on the Kh-38, which is essentially a 40km range guided 250kg bomb on the end of a missile.
They tried to test the 'Black Eagle' prototype tank already, or an experimental T-80 that looks like it - unfortunately it was taken out by artillery early on
I doubt it... there was never a working prototype of that vehicle made AFAIK.
It was rejected for the same reason the the Burlak upgrade of the T-72 was rejected... a turret bustle magazine autoloader the ammo was deemed to exposed to enemy fire to be safe.
There's no way a CCRP system like svp-24 is more accurate than a satnav guided bomb.
A satnav bomb that is getting interference from enemy forces might not be very accurate at all.
The point is that a 250kg or 500kg bomb is not a precision weapon and the area of destruction is quite large so as long as the accuracy is good enough to get the target within that area of destruction strictly very high levels of accuracy are not needed.
Just think of the saving in ammo/logistics, man effort etc if a drone and/or smart shells has been available.
Being the Donbass I suspect that might be 8 years worth of shelling by artillery.
Satnav guided bombs have backup inertial navigation.
True but if inertial nav on its own was accurate enough why bother with Satnav?
They should still work as the aircraft has inertial nav If GPS and the bombs do too as a backup.
In some places GPS is useless... in Afghanistan there were lots of locations with not enough GPS coverage and in arctic regions there are similar problems getting enough fixes from satellites just in normal conditions without jamming or interference.
If it was an ammo explosion, then WTF was not learned after the Kursk incident?
More than likely different ammo types involved.
If it was a Neptune missile, then WTF is with the Russian CIWS systems and overall lack of situational awareness. In any case it shows massive operational shortcomings of the Russian navy in a warzone against a very weak naval and air power. If this is what happened, against a real naval power they would not stand a chance.
This is a ship from the 1980s... it still had OSAs for goodness sake, but on paper should still have been able to defend itself... can't say the same for most western ships of the same era.
Can you prove that claim ?
GPS guidance is already expensive. Adding a inertial guidance is even more.
It is normal, because sometimes GPS can cut out like in high mountains so it needs to keep heading towards its target...
They really need to pummel that place, they were given a surrender option. Now they must be wiped out. The Mariupol force is needed north. No time to waste with these last 2500 clowns. Time to eliminate them from the gene pool
It is an important message to send to the Orcs... Russia does not want to kill civilians but if you are armed we need to make it clear we are happy to kill you if you don't want to surrender. If you are not allowed to surrender well you might want to shoot your commanding officer telling you you can't and save yourself.
Doesn´t matter if Bazalt tested it. The VKS is doing the tests that matter. But I doubt it. They will use dumb bombs with the help of SVP-24 where it is appropriate and use built for the purpose guided bombs when a higher accuracy is needed.
Gefest & T is a navigation bombing system and would improve the accuracy of glide bombs too.
It's definitely Slava-class hence Moskva and at that location there's no way it was ammo fire or mine
This was missile hit (smack in the middle of CIWS coverage)
Not at all... one or two Uran hits would do more damage than that... that looks more like an internal fire damage with no explosion...
Doubt its fake and it does look like the ship was hit mid-ship - so highly likely a missile strike...very sad sight.
Sure, if the missile or missiles hit and did not explode and just started fires... which is rather unlikely.
What's the point for a burned out 40 year old hull?
Perhaps make a memorial out of it...
Putin said that operation could go faster but they want to end this war with minimal looses. Thats why it will take longer. Its nothing wrong if it takes 2 or 3 years for final victory.
It certainly wont take years... once they hammer the bulk of the Orc army in the cauldrons a bit surrendering will become more common and more acceptable for their side and then hopefully the real evil bastards will get shot by their own men.
[quoet]Popasna, Izyum.. At this rate of gain Zelensky will get his 10 years of war that he threatens[/quote]
The point is though that not every Orc town is filled with civilians that Russia gives a damn about... as you head west and north... well...
I agree. I just think it would have been better if the MoD had not lied about it and had made the situation clear immediately.
They said there was an explosion and fire and that the fire was put out and the ship sank under tow.
Looking at those photos that ship was either hit by a missile whose warhead did not explode or it was not hit by anything... an anti ship missile will shatter superstructure on a boat and make a big open hole.
I already predicted the war would go for 10 years
Russia has no choice, it will take as long as it takes... it is up to the enemy how much they want to suffer to help the US and the West... the US and the west don't give a shit about them or they would not have pushed them into this position in the first place.
Any half decent traffic police would have exterminated them by now, they continue to exist because Russia is softballing this
They continue to exist because they are hiding behind their own civilians whom the Russians are in no hurry to kill too.
That they fight this way is to their credit despite the criticism.
If we get 10 million dead Ukrainian Nazis on the other end I say go full 10 years
If they are killing nazis all those 10 years then it would be 10 very very productive years... vastly more productive than the last 8 years when nazis have been killing Ukrainians claiming they are Russians invading their country.
Well, don't attack every sceptical person out there.
You can be as sceptical as you like buy crying over minor set backs or surprise losses is just childish.
Who starts a game of chess and crys about losing a single piece... unless you are a total genius and are playing a total idiot you can't play chess without losing pieces.
If you can't bear the loss of a pawn or a Ka-52 or Su-35 then don't go to war, because in war the enemy are not stupid and will do everything they can to get results and nothing is invincible... even a T-14 can be tracked or seriously damaged in combat...
Question is, how Russia will make progress with this pace.
This pace was to corner most of the core Ukrainian army into cauldrons, it was also not to wipe out and alienate the local population which seems mostly not particularly anti Russian and certainly Kievs efforts to use them as human shields probably colours their views as well and might have been a wake up call for some.
For the rest of the Ukraine I doubt such care will be taken because most of the population is likely anti Russian and not worth saving... not that they will try to kill them of course, but the focus will be getting Orc army force out or surrendered and then occupy the bits they want and border up the bits they don't.
Unless of course, one side capitulates under the banner of compromise and reason. Since facts on the ground do not support Russia's vast grievances and potential demands, any negotiated solution with the current "progress" as a basis = defacto Russian capitulation relative to incurred cost.
Zelensky wont be allowed to capitulate, this entire scenario to make Russia the big bad guy so the EU will buy US gas and US oil and countries like Finland and Sweden will join HATO and start buying American crap and allow US bases on their territory is far to important to risk because they might be part of the capitulation... besides it is only Ukrainians and Russians dying so the US is overjoyed and wants this to continue forever.
Russia wants to free its neighbour from nazi influence and demilitarise it and is well on its way to achieving that... western responses are limited to throwing fuel on the fire by sending weapons, but as shown Russia can intercept those deliveries too and destroy it enmass.
Russia simply has to take its time and get the job done.
The US made things easier by economically destroying the country over the last 8 years.
That must mean they are either missing most of targets, or anti-tank missiles are not as omni[potent at killing Russian tanks as they are made out to be or Russian destruction of Ukrainian supply lines is very effective
Most western weapons are overrated because their specs are normally described by their marketing departments and if there is one thing the west is totally superior at than anyone else it is BS.
And while all the dogs from the West are barking, no one is allowed to approach the Russian yard. Yes, they will send some more weapons to prolong the conflict, but that will not prevent Russia's victory.
It will also cement in the minds of Russians and Russia the nature of the west and its feelings toward Russians and Ukrainians and other people really.
The Russian edifice is protected by arguably, depending on what pro's and cons an analyst values most, the best, or second best nuclear deterrence on the planet.
It is but for all this time most Russians believed their future was a future working with the west in partnership... and that went all the way to the top with Putin believing it.
But now this conflict will spell out to most Russians the true nature of the west and how they can never be friends and that the future for Russia is as an alternative to the west rather than as a partner. Talk of ditching the US dollar and the Euro and looking for more trade ties outside of Europe are not new but were never really acted upon until US actions forced them to actually do it... all the while telling everyone who will listen that the Russians are the aggressors and have been trying to undermine US dominance of the west and the world all these years.
The US has gotten what it wanted... and now it will choke on that...
Idiocy is not American made. It's a human trait, practiced by everyone, some obviously more than others.
That is the problem... the US thinks everyone is as evil and nasty as they are... they call Russia the evil empire because they think they are the same as the US, but they are clearly not... they would have folded like the EU does if they were like the US because having the latest I phone and a nice latte in a thimble sized cup for $10 is what life is really all about.
Ripped from The Drive, no doubt more comments like this will come. Maybe this sailor counted a subsequent explosion as another missile.
The drivel is not a good source.
When people who all are supporting the same side - Russia - start arguing with each other and name-calling it can be assumed that the war is not going very well for Russia.
Not true at all... there are plenty who support Russia but think the US is the best and hate Putin for driving them away from Russia.
There is arguing because war is pain and death and no rational person would have anything to do with it if they had a choice... the US didn't give Putin a choice.
The fact that the west chooses war as a first option tells you all you need to know both of the nature of those in power in the west but also their control of media to hide all the bad shit that happens in any war.
Compare the Vietnam war with any war since for America and you will see there is no pro peace political party and all the media outlets now support war because it is profitable.
If Russia was conducting this war with a successful manner and clearly winning the Russian supporters would be in a good mood and patting each other to their backs and giving high-fives.
They are about to kill tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers... many of which probably deserve worse, but many of whom likely do not and are just conscripts caught between a rock and a hard place.
Hopefully they will do what US soldiers did in Vietnam with officers that liked to send them on suicide missions... roll a grenade under their bunks while they slept...
FFS. You are grade 1 stupid if you regard everything the Drive puts up as drivel. Clearly your ability to sort the wheat from the chaff has become degraded.
Did I quote any Drive editorial words?
They the were words of posters, you know, a bit like you and me, scouring the Interweb for relevant comments.
And what would be the quality of posters on the Drivel be... that weren't paid trolls sitting in the US posting bullshit like this.
What is Bellingcat?
If anyone posted anything positive on the Drivel about Russia how long would it last before being deleted?
Such a source is useless.
Supposedly Russia took 2 740 POWs in Mariupol alone.
Should be plenty of foreigners there I suspect...
British prisoners turned to Johnson with a request to exchange them for Medvedchuk
I hope they don't.... there are plenty of Russian soldiers held in captivity I would want back first.
Two mercs for a fully fledged, fully legal elected politician. You have to laugh.
Laugh and say no.
And the West making this struggle longer only makes sure Russia will be able to defeat the ukronazis for good and not only temporarily.
Not only is it giving them more time and more justification to do the job properly it is also cementing in the heads of Russia what sort of people the US and EU really are.
Those Ukrainian command posts which they use an Iskander on, are that mobile command posts like several vehicles with tents and an antenna park like our brigade in the eighties (which had several M577 vehicles).
This because I read somewhere on this forum that in the past some buildings in the then Soviet Union were reinforced for civil defense use and that Ukraine is using these reinforced buildings now for command posts which also is the reason for so-called ''civil casualties''.
Which suggests they have realised that hiding in schools and hospitals and libraries is not keeping them safe so being mobile is their alternative which is seems is not working either.
Even if Putin wanted to, he's not going to trade the foreign POW's for a Ukrainian politician as the Banderites would simply kidnap more people from Medvedchuk's politcal party and use them as barter for all the NATO assets Russia ends up capturing in this operation.
It sets the wrong precedent doesn't it... a reward for bad behaviour.
I think you are correct, and these two tossers appear to be nobodies
In this case Russia should do it as an exception, but wouldn’t make a habit of it, it would set a wrong precedent and the morons in Kiev will just start arresting civilians on masse to try get their POW’s back.
I think they should demand more Russian POWs to be included in the deal...
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Google Maps opened satellite photos of strategic objects of the Russian Federation in maximum resolution
Hope things are better next year and people interested in the Great Patriotic War and the parade are welcome again...
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