Russian special military operation in Ukraine #17

Erk wrote:
Tell that to the 27million dead Russians in WWII more than any other stack of corpses yet Russia won.
Your theory sux.

Well, at least he has a theory.
Almost 3/4 of the number consist of the civilian population that could not resist that the enemy deliberately murdered.
Out of 8.7 mln Soviet armed forces lost, about 1/3rd are prisoners of war, that again were deliberately killed by the enemy as they could not resist anymore.
Red Army's direct war deaths ratio is on par with the German one.
What is actually even more interesting, if we keep in mind that the Soviets achieved a manpower parity with the Germans at the end of 1941 only, fighting vastly outnumbered for the whole of 1941.

The situation on the ground now is a direct opposite.

The fact Russia is winning against the VSU , when NATO C4ISR is still up and running speaks about the SMO

If you understand that MIG31 within days would have cleared the skies of NATO JSTARS, SIGINT, and AWACS planes,

Then you can understand that this war would look different without the targeting platforms of US globalhawks and E3 flying freely over the black sea or Poland

In fact Clearing the skies of those  C4ISR platforms would change the entire concept of the modern war being fought

That is why Russia does not see it necessary to mobilize manpower

For what? So US C4ISR can disclose this information to Vann via the Sun?

If Russia won't cripple US space based assets and recon platforms, then it won't waste its time fighting a real war

So long as US C4ISR is up and running, the Russian army is showing only what it wants the world to see

How else do you fight against an army being supplied with 24/7 satellite imaging, drone images, sigint emission maps, and in general space based view of the battle field - without crippling the very assets which are supplying this information to the frontline enemy?

As long as those assets are in the picture, tactical assets like drones and munitions don't matter at all

It is like a drop in the water when comparing to a satellite or an ELINT plane which can monitor an area for hours and days

These are the real assets which dictate a war

Not drones, which amateurs like Vann and Seig treat as major war machines

But totally disregard the dominance of C4ISR assets like GSO satellites and round the clock AWACS surveillance

The Kremlin doesn't give a shit about some drones and some  "precision missiles"

Morons, learn about C4ISR to understand what a real war is about

You think that su25 lobbing rockets is evidence of Russian lack of technology?

Russia knows the parameters of every Pindo satellite flying over Russian space, as well as the flight path of every single US plane within S400 and Mig31 range

Only a clown amateur would treat some cheap drone as the main instrument of modern warfare

In fact the only advantage the Ukrainians have in the SMO , is that US C4ISR is operating uninterrupted over the area of war

In real Russia vs US war let's be real, the majority of those assets would disappear

Do you really think, that a BROSINT account would have any clue of what Russia was doing, if Russia decides to take out NATO C4ISR?

You really think Russia would let intelligence of its army be shared on Twitter if it considered it necessary to dismantle the ISR capabilities of west?

The only reason you have minute to minute updates on telegram, Twitter, and generally speaking can watch YouTube videos with amateur analysis

Is because the C4ISR infrastructure of the West,  operates uninterrupted

A clown like Vann, or clowns from BROSINT sites or Reddit army Kalibr sponges would have their internet feeds taken down if Russia was serious about denying NATO targeting platforms near to Russia

Only reason you even see video of T62 on trains is due to Tik tok , which today influences minor regional wars like the SMO

Because in a real war, trust me Vann, you will not have the luxury of posting about drones

Daily combat losses of Ukraine are about 60-100 soldiers killed and about 500 wounded - Zelensky

Zelensky himself now admits the catastrophic losses of the VSU

I have to ask myself, how is it possible for Ukraine to lose the Donbass

When they have images of Russian troops positions on the border, months before February 24th?

How is it possible the US and NATO commanders failed so miserably to defend mariupol and donbass properly, in spite of knowing in advance the Russian deployments and strategic picture of the ground?

It is the ultimate embarrassment of western militaries,

Who having every detail of Russian troop movements,  and have images of Russian logistics, have failed to arrange proper defense of Donbass?

How can it be, that with E3 , Seahawks and Globalhawks, US recon sat, generals on the ground and more, that a proper defense cannot be established with numerical superiority?

This is worse than bagram for USA, because they are using all high tech resources, and have large manpower in the VSU, but are unable to hold on to urban cities like Severodonetsk or Liman

It is a devastating rout of western doctrine

To have lost an entire region that was planned for 8 years by the best western generals, with over 200,000 men, non stop reconnaissance , and weapons to establish defensive fortresses

It is truly an example of how mismatched the western and Russian militaries are to the advantage of Russia

All Russia needs to do after the military victory is to transfer as many regions of Ukraine as possible to its gravitational field.
The special military operation started because of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, at least that is the position of the Russian state.
Russia has not yet declared itself regarding Kharkov, Odessa and Nikolaev, let alone the rest of Ukraine. And precisely in those 3 areas, I give a chance that Russia can establish its control without major problems. I am thinking primarily of the population living in those cities.
As for the Kherson and Zaporizhye regions, Ukraine almost certainly lost those regions. So, it remains to take the city of Zaporozhye.
Russia should try to include Chernigov, Sumy, Poltava and Dnepropetrovsk under its gravitational field. This does not mean that these areas will immediately become part of Novorussia or Russia, but that they will eventually gravitate towards Moscow in the future and a possible departure from the jurisdiction of Kiev.
Everything on the other side of the Dnieper River is not worth the effort..

Agree that drones are not an elixir to solve all problems . Especially large and slow and mid- altitude and metal ones . Just look at the number of TB2 , that was shot down . Smaller , faster , low altitude , non-metal , disposable and cheap ones , have more uses . But even these are vulnerable to jamming or small arms fire . And Tanks a vestiges from WW1, are loosing the war against ATGW . So I guess , the best plan is not to fight present wars , with all of  yesterday's or tomorrow's weapons . But in reality , wars are fought with what is available now . The trenches video posted earlier , showed that artillery hits , were impact fused and some distance away from trenches , probably fired long distance . They say Russia has Artillery shells and Rockets with sub-munitions , but it is not using these , because collecting them later is difficult ! Well I think that problem easily solved , by allowing easy detection of bomblets , or allowing a shelf - life for them in the open . In this way , trenches can be cleared with available equipment . Not even needing planes , and keeping them for NATO , air combat .

Biden has spoken ! Longer range Rockets for Ukraine , to shorten the war ! He hopes Russian cities will not be hit ! Well , I think this action will shorten the war ,  but not in the way he imagines . Unless increasing the power of a side is significant and leads to real gains , then it is less than useless . Unless this force was enough to destroy half a dozen Russian cities , that would force a stop to Russian advances , then it is useless . All that these Rockets will do , is to mobilise the Russian side to inflict more losses on the Nazis , even more quickly . Agree West of River useless to govern , but useful to control and destroy . Therefore Bridges needed with quick repair , to cross and destroy NATO in West .

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/31/us-to-announce-new-ukraine-aid-package-before-too-long-liveblog

PapaDragon wrote:

limb wrote:Whats the reason that russian can't do a decapitation offensive through Lutsk or Rovno from the west belarussian border? Most of the ukrainian army is in the east, and Russia can freely move its troops through Belarus....

It would leave too many Nazis alive

Killing them slow and steady will achieve far superior results than rushing the job

Message needs to be sent

Also you want Zelensky and his pals to leave after this and live large in France while Ukrops continue to live in shit

100% agree with you.

Let the nationalist and neo-nazis in the Ukraine commit more atrocities against their own people to paint Russia bad. In the end everything they achieve is more and more Ukrainians will wake up and divide them into the scum that no one needs which should be pushed to Polish border and let the Poles do the killing of the Bandersites to calm them fucking down for Volyn. The ultimate goal will be that many Ukrainians will feel shame for the Ukrainian flag, Trizup gerp and all radical leaning symbols. This will let the made up of the Ukraine as a state and the artificial created "ethnicity" of Ukrainians die faster.

Keep it slow, make it professional and install in every city watchdogs who will look out for nationalist sentiments and put them to trial. If they uphold nationalistic, nazi or anti-russian views then either put them in a re-education camp or trial them if they are calling for death. There must be a society created where feeling Ukrainian is uncomfortable and humiliating for them, this will only speed up the process of dying of Lenin's work.

May he rot and his rotten cadaver thrown out of the mausoleum.

The more pro Ukrainians leave the country and go to the West and the ones that are eager to fight take up arms and die for their dream at the Russian front the better for the future for all the rest of people there!

Briefing by Russian Defence Ministry

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation continue the special military operation in Ukraine.

High-precision air-based missiles of the Russian Aerospace Forces have hit 5 control points, as well as 29 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

Operational-tactical, army and unmanned aviation have hit 61 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

The attacks have resulted in the elimination of more than 140 nationalists, as well as 9 tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, 1 battery of BM-21 Grad multiple rocket launchers, 6 artillery mounts and mortars, 13 AFU vehicles of various purposes and 1 OSA-AKM anti-aircraft missile system.

Russian air defense means have shot down 1 Su-25 aircraft of the Air Forces of Ukraine near Sergeevka, Donetsk People's Republic and 1 Mi-8 helicopter near Kharkov during the day.

In addition, 7 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles have been shot down near Gorlovka, Golmovskyi, Yasinovataya, Varvarovka in Donetsk People's Republic, Malye Prokhody, Novaya Gnilitsa in Kharkov Region, and Pyatikhatka in Kherson Region. Also, 2 Ukrainian Smerch multiple-launch rockets have been intercepted near Malaya Kamyshevakha and Kamenka in Kharkov Region.

Missile troops and artillery have hit 128 command posts, 169 firing positions of artillery and mortar batteries, as well as 623 areas of AFU manpower and military equipment concentration.

The attacks have resulted in the elimination of up to 200 nationalists, as well as 24 units of weapons and military equipment, including 1 battery of 155-mm M777 howitzers, 203-mm 2S7 Pion mount, BM-21 Grad multiple rocket launcher and 2 ammunition depots.

In total, 185 Ukrainian aircraft and 129 helicopters, 1,077 unmanned aerial vehicles, 326 anti-aircraft missile systems, 3,363 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 457 multiple launch rocket systems, 1,744 field artillery and mortars, as well as 3,329 units of special military vehicles were destroyed during the operation.

#MoD #Russia #Ukraine #Briefing
@mod_russia_en

Werewolf wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:

limb wrote:Whats the reason that russian can't do a decapitation offensive through Lutsk or Rovno from the west belarussian border? Most of the ukrainian army is in the east, and Russia can freely move its troops through Belarus....

It would leave too many Nazis alive

Killing them slow and steady will achieve far superior results than rushing the job

Message needs to be sent

Also you want Zelensky and his pals to leave after this and live large in France while Ukrops continue to live in shit

100% agree with you.

Let the nationalist and neo-nazis in the Ukraine commit more atrocities against their own people to paint Russia bad. In the end everything they achieve is more and more Ukrainians will wake up and divide them into the scum that no one needs which should be pushed to Polish border and let the Poles do the killing of the Bandersites to calm them fucking down for Volyn. The ultimate goal will be that many Ukrainians will feel shame for the Ukrainian flag, Trizup gerp and all radical leaning symbols. This will let the made up of the Ukraine as a state and the artificial created "ethnicity" of Ukrainians die faster.

Keep it slow, make it professional and install in every city watchdogs who will look out for nationalist sentiments and put them to trial. If they uphold nationalistic, nazi or anti-russian views then either put them in a re-education camp or trial them if they are calling for death. There must be a society created where feeling Ukrainian is uncomfortable and humiliating for them, this will only speed up the process of dying of Lenin's work.

May he rot and his rotten cadaver thrown out of the mausoleum.

The more pro Ukrainians leave the country the West and the eager to fight take up arms the better for the future for all the rest of people there!

Tina Turner said if you want to do it right, do it slow. She meant something else but... War and love are closely related.

Push forward slowly from the East and the South, push all those EU-lovers and Banderites out. That trash will have a huge impact on the EU. This will lead to more politicians
like Orban coming to power, bringing even countries like Poland closer to Russia.

Podlodka77 wrote:All Russia needs to do after the military victory is to transfer as many regions of Ukraine as possible to its gravitational field.
The special military operation started because of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, at least that is the position of the Russian state.
Russia has not yet declared itself regarding Kharkov, Odessa and Nikolaev, let alone the rest of Ukraine. And precisely in those 3 areas, I give a chance that Russia can establish its control without major problems. I am thinking primarily of the population living in those cities.
As for the Kherson and Zaporizhye regions, Ukraine almost certainly lost those regions. So, it remains to take the city of Zaporozhye.
Russia should try to include Chernigov, Sumy, Poltava and Dnepropetrovsk under its gravitational field. This does not mean that these areas will immediately become part of Novorussia or Russia, but that they will eventually gravitate towards Moscow in the future and a possible departure from the jurisdiction of Kiev.
Everything on the other side of the Dnieper River is not worth the effort..

It will take only a few month to turn Kherson and Zaporoshye into russian regions. Maybe 3 - 4. Same for Nikolaev. Odessa and Kharkov could take 5 - 6 month, due to the influx of
Nazis in the last years. Same for Dnjepropetrovsk, Poltava and the rest. If you throw out the western bastards even Kiev will turn normal in a year or so.

But I would take the western part. Don´t let some cancer cells remain, erradicate it.

This will take a bigger military presence, but there will be no insurgency as some western planners dream. Those Nazis like to beat up weak people, not soldiers with guns.

Build a wall along the western border, from Murmansk to Odessa. Bring in 100.000 border guards. This will keep out nasty westerners.

By the way, I would tell all EU-lovers that are eager to leave the new russian regions that this is a one-way ticket. If you leave, you won´t be able to come back.

aid coming in

https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/05/life-is-coming-back-in-mariupol.html
Nice video from Graham Phillips, MChS is everywhere.

Where are the videos of su-25 directly hitting columns of ukie tanks and weapons supplies from the west ? Where are the videos of russian aiforce hitting those long convoys from the west moving m777 artillery columns?

Hahaha.... yeah.... those M777s all came into the country in one big long convoy with their ammo at the front and the guns in the middle on special trucks and trucks for towing them behind that... obviously

The russian airforce just like the indian forums have noticed have been
the weakest link ,in the entire operation. No real close air support with precision bombing ,at least ,
no videos released by them in the last month doing that , no precision bombing of those ukie soldiers in their trenches with airforce.. or strike drones , forcing the russian army ,to fight in the most dangerous ways , of hand to hand combat , like soviet did it 70 years ago in stalingrad.

Hahahaha... how dumb are you Vann... do you understand no videos released is not the same as not attacks and no videos made.

The Orcs have already lost the 2,000 odd MBTs they had at the start of this conflict... not to mention how many fuel and ammo and weapon dumps that have been destroyed... but no video so it didn't happen... are you really that dumb?

So this video if anything proof ,that the russian airforce is next to useless in the battlefield ,in this latest months, is not replacing at all ,their limited use of heavy strike drones ,with laser guide missiles , the close support airforce is more used as scout planes , to counter the lack of intel planes ,monitoring the airspace of ukraine. throwing a few rockets ,so randomly into the air , far away of their targets , is the ice of the cake..

This video is evidence that the ground forces sent the coordinates of the target to the Su-25 crews and the Su-25 is now sophisticated enough to calculate the ballistic trajectory needed to launch those rockets to hit that geographical location without flying anywhere near it, which would make it vulnerable to MANPADS or light cannon like ZU-23-2.

Now the Orcs might set up MANPADS positions around their defensive positions but the don't know which directions the Su-25s will be coming from and using lofted rocket fire.... which I have never seen with western aircraft.... they use lofted bombing techniques, but never seen them use lofted rocket launches for unguided rockets... massively increases the volume of airspace the Orcs need to spread out their MANPADS units to defend their positions... essentially making all those Stingers less useful.

But you say that is a bad thing.

why russian airforce can't do that? a real massacre of enemy convoys tanks ,artillery ,moving
on roads being catch by the airforce ?

So the Ukrainians are just committing suicide by themselves... what do you think the Russian air force has been doing... they just aren't going to show you the videos till they are ready if at all.

If they were posting video after video of Orcs being smoked in convoys by air power the Orcs might stop using teh same convoy technique which makes them harder to kill.... why would the Russians want that... they want those Orcs to continue following HATO methods of operations because that is what Russia has been planning to fight all these years so they understand it and find it predictable...

i have yet to see a single video of Russian minister of defense showing ukie convoys destroyed
by airforce.

So obviously they still have thousands of tanks and aircraft and other armoured vehicles ready to use because no video of their destruction has been seen in the west... congrats on your amazing skills of logic and reason...

It’s full of Manpands so is obviously they are not gonna sent them to close.

If you have the coordinates of the target area and are using an area weapon like unguided rockets it simply makes sense to minimise the risk of return fire by lofting the rockets at the target.

Grad and Uragans and Smerch rockets are not direct line of sight unguided rockets... but they are accurate enough to be rather devastating too.

Garry don't shoot the messenger. In any case you don't have to sound so butthurt in every other message.

Why do you think the sky is falling because some Russian pilots buy Garmin receivers and use them when they work.

Are you going to search their pockets and make sure their pens are not BIC, or check to make sure their watches are not Seiko?

If they are how long are you going to cry for?

The fact of the matter is that Russia doesn't make everything and what it does make is not always the cheapest or the best.... especially in the field of electronics because the Russian market is relatively small and is dominated by western companies that also sell to much larger western markets and the rest of the world so they can actually make the same thing cheaper than a Russian maker could because of their much smaller market.

This is of course changing now... those Garmin handsets might have been made in Russia or more likely China but now they likely will ban sales so there will be an opportunity for a Russian company to step in and perhaps make an even better product... perhaps one that works in Aviation and Ground forces metrics with a button to switch between instantly, that can be custom designed for the market... no imperial measures options... just metric...

P.P.S. If you check out that channel you can see that they were donating a lot of small equipment to pilots since the start of SMO. Regular army channel can be slow in providing stuff due to bureaucracy or complicated process.

Not interested.

It needs explanation because there's a media propaganda narrative about Russian aircraft having GPS receivers "taped" to the cockpit since their own don't work.

Like I said, don't listen to anything you see or read in the west... the Su-25s they are the best aircraft in that class in the world.

The rockets don't appear to be using CCIP or CCRP as the pipper is aiming at a point in the sky and not s distant release point.

For unpowered bombs the aim point would obviously be on the ground depending on the drag of the bomb and the speed of the aircraft, but for ballistic rockets the aimpoint would be above the horizon if you are lofting the rockets at a patch of ground ahead of the aircraft... and a ballistic computer linked to a navigation system would be necessary to calculate the angles in real time to fire and get useful launches... think of it as a GRAD system that can fire on the move...

Ffs looks like the only way to ignore vann7 is to put everyone quoting him on ignore too
Dudes literally a childish troll spouting the same garbage every day on repeat mode, worst poster here. Why you people keep trying to engage him in a serious convo is beyond me

Because ignoring him makes it appear that everyone thinks he is right...

Any close air support system should use the same coordinate system as the troops on the ground. Seems like a massive oversight if you need a 3rd party system to work out the conversion.

NASA fell in to that trap once... their engineers work in metric but their media relations department work in imperial measures because that is what their public understands. Some designs were created using mixed dimensions and the resulting rocket failed because you can't mix dimensions in one design and expect it to work normally...

https://everydayastronaut.com/mars-climate-orbiter/

Here we are still talking about that video on Youtube from around 2009 that showed a Russian trainer aircraft with a Garmin on the dash.(probably communicating with GLONASS, the only other functional GPS system at the time) But now there appears to be a new iteration of the story.

If you go to the Garmin website their new receivers all use GLONASS as well as NAVSTAR and BEIDOU and some even also use GALLIEO, because the more satellites it can use the better accuracy it can achieve.

How does the CCIP of the Su-25 calculate shooting the rockets indirectly? The HUD seems to do 0 calculation for the pilot.

The navigation system knows the position of the Su-25 and the target coordinates... it knows the flight speed of the aircraft and its altitude and it knows the ballistic performance of the rockets... punch all that information into a computer and give a beep warning to the pilot to pull back on the stick and when the angle of the aircraft reaches the required angle... launch the rockets...

The same calculations have to be made for a Grad unit... its location, the location of the target... the elevation required, the performance of the 122mm rockets.... fire...

The only difference is that the Su-25 is doing the calculations in real time based on changing information... which introduces error, but the much shorter flight time of the rockets means accuracy should still be comparable or better.

You can't exactly hide one up ur ass, these are large machines that need to be moved by truck.

You can put it into a truck trailer... you can even put a tarp over it with packing that completely changes its shape...

A lot of drugs are made locally and if not for the drugs they would sniff glue or gas. So whatever.

When there is money to be made you can get most things... even in places that should be secure like a prison...

Whining about things getting through is just pathetic...

Can they do better?

Probably... but it is all about effort.... you would need to put in 100% more effort to reduce traffic by 1% and it probably isn't worth it.

It's not a video from 2009 though, it's a video from the last few days.

Doesn't really matter when the video was made... the fact is that the attempted slant that Russian planes can't navigate without American GPS equipment is amusing... their cruise missiles seem to be accurate enough to do the job and the accuracy required for a missile to hit a target is much higher than the accuracy needed to pilot an aircraft... precision of cms is irrelevant for a pilot to fly their plane...

From my own experience, the Leopard 2A5 had a build in navigation system.

Thanks... I am not a pilot but I have a friend with a licence to fly light aircraft and he uses Garmin receivers... he bought a cellphone dashboard mount and uses that for it in the Cessna he flys. (detachable because it is not his plane).

It is a simple easy to read display... that includes a live map.

And nobody is trimming their quotes, everyone post quoted crap in full even though it’s AGAINST THE FORUM RULES!!!

Very good point.

Warning to members... reposting entire conversations to reply to one piece is against the rules... don't be lazy... take the time to trim... or get a break from the forum to think about it.

It is a courtesy to other members.

Whats the reason that russian can't do a decapitation offensive through Lutsk or Rovno from the west belarussian border? Most of the ukrainian army is in the east, and Russia can freely move its troops through Belarus.

Chew your food... don't bite off more than you can chew or you choke.

Things are going fine... no value in getting Belarus dragged in to this because having Russian troops there... things are working just fine... why change tactics when the current tactics are working.

The Ukraine forces in the cauldrons are not trying to escape so there is no reason to close them... just keep picking off any support or reinforcements trying to go in and also small parties trying to leave.

Why did Lukashenko allow Russia to pass through chernobyl, but not attack west?

Russian control of Chernobyl is in everyones interests at this stage of the conflict...

War is about winning, not killing.

This war is about eliminating a threat... which means killing or capturing is winning.

Also stopping western weapons shipments. Also eviscerating the enemy behind the frontlines.

They are already doing this, but not at 100% efficiency... (which would not be achievable).

Side which stacks more enemy corpses will always win in the long run

Can't agree with that... Germany didn't win the eastern front in WWII despite murdering everyone they could for as long as they could, but I do agree that Russia is going to solve the problems that led to this conflict starting by eliminating nazis in the Ukraine and getting rid of the current government... whether by cruise missile or by forcing a coup...

Killing or capturing the enemy is how it will be done... holding territory is irrelevant and pointless in this situation... it is about grinding up enemy man power.

Only a clown amateur would treat some cheap drone as the main instrument of modern warfare

Drones are definitely force multipliers and can make a lot of things much easier, but when you have air control and artillery and decent air defence systems you don't need as many drones... certainly suicide drones are for smaller weaker sides trying to hit back at a superior force... the delivery of sensational videos that look more impressive than they actually are is great for propaganda which is why children think they are so amazing... but in this situation Russia wins by killing or capturing the enemy... not posting shit on the internet.

Hole wrote:

Finally! At least one well trained individual getting the trigger finger discipline right

Your finger is supposed to guard the trigger from snagging but everybody I've seen so far gets the finger in the wrong position completely exposing the trigger. I guess it will prevent someone pulling the trigger accidentally though?

Podlodka77 wrote:All Russia needs to do after the military victory is to transfer as many regions of Ukraine as possible to its gravitational field.
The special military operation started because of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, at least that is the position of the Russian state.
Russia has not yet declared itself regarding Kharkov, Odessa and Nikolaev, let alone the rest of Ukraine. And precisely in those 3 areas, I give a chance that Russia can establish its control without major problems. I am thinking primarily of the population living in those cities.
As for the Kherson and Zaporizhye regions, Ukraine almost certainly lost those regions. So, it remains to take the city of Zaporozhye.
Russia should try to include Chernigov, Sumy, Poltava and Dnepropetrovsk under its gravitational field. This does not mean that these areas will immediately become part of Novorussia or Russia, but that they will eventually gravitate towards Moscow in the future and a possible departure from the jurisdiction of Kiev.
Everything on the other side of the Dnieper River is not worth the effort..

1)Its not easy to answer. Chechnya looked very difficult ... and now it has many heroic troops fighting for Russia.
Even if its brand of Islam is a bit too radical for most Russian's liking.

2)I reckon the Western most 8m of 35m ish of the former Ukraine is the problem part.
Plus some bits centrally, surrounding but not actually in Kiev. (Kiev can just be cleansed of Bandera-filth, whether the West likes it or not).

3)One argument is that the West Ukrainians can be left to their own devices provided they are deNazified, demilitarised and don't control the borders. Something of a self governing shitpool. And tolerating a few Russian bases in the Western border.

I woudln'treally want them mixing with the rest of the former Ukraine tho.

4)The West Ukraine end game might also be related to neighbouring EU and other states.
A grand buffer zone which is demilitarised for everyone's benefits.

5)Another way to consider it is this.
The West Ukraine won't be settled in 5,10 or even 20 yrs.
A little like the American occupation of Japan or W Germany. But like other places too. For instance the American Confederate states after the US Civil War.
Something that changes over generations.

As long as it is defanged can't harm Malorossiya, Novorossiya etc and justice is served, then with NATO forces looked out they will eventually behave themselves and realise a better future is with Russia.Or they can just **** off to clean toilets in POland!

6) Once 3/4 of the Ukraine is re Russified, and the remaining 1/4 is defanged, you could argue Russia should focus on Northern Kazakstan and maybe the Baltics. With the W Ukraine as a matter for another time.
Who knows tho ultimately.

Podlodka77 wrote:...Everything on the other side of the Dnieper River is not worth the effort..

And get another West Germany for their troubles?

This would be the dumbest outcome imaginable


They should annex everything they can and as for the rest label the area as something not Ukraine (call it ''Special Supervision Zone #1'' or something like that) keep planes and drones in the air 24/7 Gaza-style and regularly bomb any military target that pops up

If there are no military targets bomb military looking targets

If there are no military looking targets blow up some military age Ukrops and call them military targets

Pace must be kept at all times


If anyone tries to build any industrial facility more complex than grain silo blow it up and kill anyone building it

They should have no economy more complex than subsistence farming  


Do it right this time and don't repeat mistakes of USSR

lyle6 wrote:

Arkanghelsk wrote:
Russia is teaching how to do occupation

I'm going to be fucking institutionalized from laughing like a loon if it turns out that all it takes to win an insurgency is not to fight one in the first place - just fight a prolonged conventional campaign at your own pace, beat the shit out of your opponent but leave just enough of him intact that he can still regroup and rejoin the fight if barely, and do this for the entire 12 rounds.

Get your pyjamas ready then because that's exactly what's happening

You think USA would have lost Iraq had they spent couple of years grinding the locals into dust before officially taking over instead of racing to Baghdad like idiots? (same as Russians did here at first before they decided to unfuck themselves)

Papadragon you have the right idea

Why rush to fight an insurgency?

Better to move slow securing rear areas first and denazify everything

My main concern : the Kremlin announced they have low confidence in Kiev pledge to not use US weapons on Russia

Guys understand for a moment, Medvedev, Several Duma representatives and in general Kremlin have declared

That if so much as one ATACMS or PrSm missile make its way to Ukrainian hands, or even the rocket of M270 , and these fly to Russia...

The retaliation on US servicemen in bases where these weapons are flowing through will be devastating

Iran has hit US bases , but stopped short of killing pindostan troops

Guys, the warning already came from Medvedev

If one American weapon hits Russia, there will be retaliation on US soil

Let it sink in

Germany to send IRIS-T air defence system to Ukraine.

https://tass.com/politics/1458697?utm_source=google.com&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=google.com&utm_referrer=google.com

What peace agreements? This is nonsense in the current situation.

If Polish troops invade Western Ukraine and eventually clash with the Allied forces there, then NATO's Article 5 does not apply since fight would be in a third country.

Arrow wrote:Germany to send IRIS-T air defence system to Ukraine.

https://tass.com/politics/1458697?utm_source=google.com&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=google.com&utm_referrer=google.com

What peace agreements? This is nonsense in the current situation.

Actually they would need to make them first since the german army said it won't come from their stocks. So if goes ahead it will need 1 or 2 years to delivered.

It's just a propaganda move. And if it happens russians will capture top nato missiles.

Isos wrote:

Arrow wrote:Germany to send IRIS-T air defence system to Ukraine.

https://tass.com/politics/1458697?utm_source=google.com&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=google.com&utm_referrer=google.com

What peace agreements? This is nonsense in the current situation.

Actually they would need to make them first since the german army said it won't come from their stocks. So if goes ahead it will need 1 or 2 years to delivered.

It's just a propaganda move. And if it happens russians  will capture top nato missiles.

I hope not. That one is a dangerous system. Probably, best AA system west can send to Ukraine to date.