Russian special military operation in Ukraine #19

Ukraine has been pulling back on its use of Turkish Bayraktar drones (TB-2s), which were initially effective at stopping Russian armored advances in the Battle of Kyiv, but are now far less useful since Russia's defenses have come online. "They were very useful and important in the very first days, stopping those columns, but now that they’ve built up good air defenses, they’re almost useless," said one pilot, who goes by Moonfish.

Typical western PR: covering BS (Battle of Kiev) with more BS (Bakshish effective) and "proof" it with even more BS (stopping the columns).

Isos wrote:

Every now and then, you say something extremely stupid. This is such an example. Are you bipolar by any chance?

Anyway, a Drone, much like a cruise missile, flies low. Even if the radar sees it which most likely does at decent ranges (maybe 100km before it actually gets spotted), usually interception range is within the ~20km zone if that. So if the AD systems are not within said area, they cannot take down the drone unless the system moves

Nope bipolar just amazed by how stupid sometimes russians can be and how hyped they are with their AD.

100km away flying at 200km/h means you have 30min to send a mig-29 or su-30 to intercept it. Even ka-52 or mi-28 can destroy it.

It was flying above the front line. So it should have been easy to destroy.

They are spending too much money on AD and clearly not enough on the airforce which could have destroyed the airports this drone operated from. The use of kalibr and iskander missiles against any target in the rear of ukraine shows how they destroyed their air force.

They should have had at least 100 su-57 by now if they invested enough money in it instead of S-500 which has no real use in an atomic war.

Now they have to keep the few su-35 they have far away from danger because they don't have enough of them. Su-30 and su-34 don't seem to have any survivability against soviet made AD systems with their huge rcs.

Shooting down 99.99% of anything the enemy send into the air is hyped. Sure. The Russians are even better then their pre-war calculations.

Flying slow and low is a fucking advantage, because most long-range air surveillance radars will think the object is a car.

The only way to destroy an airport is with a fucking nuclear weapon. Otherwise any damage to the runway can be repaired within hours. Using planes to bomb them over and over again is a waste of time and ressources.

And day in and day out Su-30, Su-34 and Su-35 are destroying radars and AD systems.

Isos wrote:

Every now and then, you say something extremely stupid. This is such an example. Are you bipolar by any chance?

Anyway, a Drone, much like a cruise missile, flies low. Even if the radar sees it which most likely does at decent ranges (maybe 100km before it actually gets spotted), usually interception range is within the ~20km zone if that. So if the AD systems are not within said area, they cannot take down the drone unless the system moves

Nope bipolar just amazed by how stupid sometimes russians can be and how hyped they are with their AD.

100km away flying at 200km/h means you have 30min to send a mig-29 or su-30 to intercept it. Even ka-52 or mi-28 can destroy it.

It was flying above the front line. So it should have been easy to destroy.

They are spending too much money on AD and clearly not enough on the airforce which could have destroyed the airports this drone operated from. The use of kalibr and iskander missiles against any target in the rear of ukraine shows how they destroyed their air force.

They should have had at least 100 su-57 by now if they invested enough money in it instead of S-500 which has no real use in an atomic war.

Now they have to keep the few su-35 they have far away from danger because they don't have enough of them. Su-30 and su-34 don't seem to have any survivability against soviet made AD systems with their huge rcs

AD is effective at grounding the NATO airforce

Bayraktars are being supplied at the highest level, and 1 got through

You make a big deal for nothing 

Iskander and Kalibr are designed for those kinds of strikes in the rear 

Why send a plane with a bomb and expose to danger

When a ballistic missile or cruise missile does the same job? 

The air force is protecting important sites for Russia, not some local oil complex , that an Osa or Pantsir can guard 

----

The drones of Ukraine , are a problem, but not the main one, the main problem is the satellites which constantly monitor the border and which cue all other assets like drones 

So you kill 1 drone, but then the satellite is still watching you, feeding information to the ground control of when an area is undefended 

If you do Park aircrafts, the sat will tell VSU when there is a rotation, or when guard is down to stage an attack

So the problem is not the existence of bayraktars or drones

But the intelligence sharing between major NATO assets which are guiding these strikes

-----

So what should Russia do? Shoot down a MAXAR satellite with S500? 

Then it escalates to a higher level, and Russia is keeping it to a low style conflict , because it inflicts economic pain to western countries 

The fact is, the C4ISR complex of NATO is the main problem here, and with them actively helping Ukraine, the Ukrainians will have adequate intelligence of where to hit and when

This is the main problem, not drones

They are telling them what goes on by the border, when there is a rotation, where to fly, that is the problem mainly

Not drones and not fighters

If you have the enemy watching you constantly, then nothing is secret and it's difficult to conduct true maskirovka

You must deceive these assholes so that they are distracted elsewhere

That is the main problem, fooling and feeding false information to the observation means of the enemy

Inflatables should be used, and fake air defense vehicles should be stationed

If general staff employed a maskirovka movement, then this would be avoided, because Ukrainians and NATO would focus attacks where they see a "weak spot"

Isos wrote:

Every now and then, you say something extremely stupid. This is such an example. Are you bipolar by any chance?

Anyway, a Drone, much like a cruise missile, flies low. Even if the radar sees it which most likely does at decent ranges (maybe 100km before it actually gets spotted), usually interception range is within the ~20km zone if that. So if the AD systems are not within said area, they cannot take down the drone unless the system moves

Nope bipolar just amazed by how stupid sometimes russians can be and how hyped they are with their AD.

100km away flying at 200km/h means you have 30min to send a mig-29 or su-30 to intercept it. Even ka-52 or mi-28 can destroy it.

It was flying above the front line. So it should have been easy to destroy.

They are spending too much money on AD and clearly not enough on the airforce which could have destroyed the airports this drone operated from. The use of kalibr and iskander missiles against any target in the rear of ukraine shows how they destroyed their air force.

They should have had at least 100 su-57 by now if they invested enough money in it instead of S-500 which has no real use in an atomic war.

Now they have to keep the few su-35 they have far away from danger because they don't have enough of them. Su-30 and su-34 don't seem to have any survivability against soviet made AD systems with their huge rcs.

I think the S500 has anti ICBM and anti satellite capability. Not just against aircraft.

I also think Russia should have at least 300 SU 35 which is what is possible now. Su 57 will only have production cadence when the new engine has been completed.

Backman wrote:Russia had zero interest in the Baltics and had no interest in attacking them. So what does this US do ? The one thing that would cause Russia to attack the baltics

Lithuania ready to expand Kaliningrad blockade – president

The country is prepared to face retaliatory steps by Russia, Gitanas Nauseda has said

The economic and military defeat is driving European leaders to despair. They don't know what else to do to harm Russia so they cling to anything. These small Baltic countries are not prepared for Russian retaliation.

In fact, not even Germany, which is the greatest power.
They started to burn coal because they are out of gas and winter hasn't even arrived. And from what I read part of the coal is also imported from Russia.

Victorvicktop55
@vic_top55
Russia will win in any case, and NATO and the West in general will pay a double price: The price of a Russian victory in Ukraine for NATO will be higher than supporting Kyiv for a long time - NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg https://t.me/vicktop55/4731


He lost touch with reality.....
Could it be that the marijuana was spoiled...?


Levi
@Levi_godman
Boris Johnson said that "Russia will soon be unable to continue the offensive in its current form, as its resources are limited."

We back to „Weapon exporter Russia is running out of everything“?

and this one... too

ludovicense wrote:

I think the S500 has anti ICBM and anti satellite capability. Not just against aircraft.

I also think Russia should have at least 300 SU 35 which is what is possible now. Su 57 will only have production cadence when the new engine has been completed.

Peresvet can blind them all , the question is: blinding US military sats means war. But private companies....

Isos wrote:

Every now and then, you say something extremely stupid. This is such an example. Are you bipolar by any chance?

Anyway, a Drone, much like a cruise missile, flies low. Even if the radar sees it which most likely does at decent ranges (maybe 100km before it actually gets spotted), usually interception range is within the ~20km zone if that. So if the AD systems are not within said area, they cannot take down the drone unless the system moves

Nope bipolar just amazed by how stupid sometimes russians can be and how hyped they are with their AD.

100km away flying at 200km/h means you have 30min to send a mig-29 or su-30 to intercept it. Even ka-52 or mi-28 can destroy it.

It was flying above the front line. So it should have been easy to destroy.

They are spending too much money on AD and clearly not enough on the airforce which could have destroyed the airports this drone operated from. The use of kalibr and iskander missiles against any target in the rear of ukraine shows how they destroyed their air force.

They should have had at least 100 su-57 by now if they invested enough money in it instead of S-500 which has no real use in an atomic war.

Now they have to keep the few su-35 they have far away from danger because they don't have enough of them. Su-30 and su-34 don't seem to have any survivability against soviet made AD systems with their huge rcs.

Losing a few su-34's and 1 su 35 isn't really an issue. Actually, it shows Russia can run circles in Ukraine with little losses while Ukraine nearly lost its entire airforce.

You peddle false information like before where people assumed because we aren't getting 24x7 coverage every second on where the Russian planes are flying, that they aren't flying. That assumption is just stupid especially since russia proved it incorrect. Like Hole said. His comment makes more sense.

S-500 job is for anti icbm and anti satellite to a degree of Defense. It's job is very important much like S-400,350 tor and pantsir. Russia has plenty of jets and still getting more so I'm unsure what your point is. Issue wouldn't have changed. If Russia had to intercept every slow moving object at low altitude that looks like a car on radar screen, then they are in trouble.

All this will do is look for new methods of detecting and tracking such slow moving low altitude objects. The method of destroying them already exists and that's the point of pantsir and tor.

Backman wrote:Reddit larpers dead or in custody

perhaps it is an bit unprofessional to state I'm looking forward to this,...but.
The world is not The West/NATO's playground to do as they like.
There should be consequences for their actions, and they are long overdue.

The only "value" they can have, is if they are tradeable for RF/LPR/DPR troops that are POW's under Kiev.
If not, They should become examples of what awaits when you come to Ukraine to fight for Nazi's.

RF/LPR/DPR where very clear from the start that they would be viewed as terrorists and do not fall under the Geneva conventions.

If the situation was reversed, we would have western masturbatory elation. They have no business in the Donbass. Period.
All they did from 2014 on is terrorize the local civilians. They can call them "separs" and make cheesy jokes about cooking
them in oil or tomato sauce, but they are the terrorists. This is retribution.

Backman wrote:Russia gave the Ukraine military a chance to stand back before the war. Then during the first 2 week. And then one more chance to avoid certain death before phase 2.
Zero sympathy.

I can not find the end of the situation in the vid anywhere.
Not on my sources either, enough posts of the vid themselves tough.

Its clear to everyone that these guys are conscripts.
Not the Nazi units you should bury alive on-sight.

They lack any sort of insignia's, wear their gear half-assed. no (filled) mags in their vests.
Just what might be breaklights/rations what looks of it. their guns look they came from an museum.
No other weaponry like Anti tank or snipers, MG's anywhere visible.
These guys just radiate "i don't want to be here".

Kiev pulls any fighting age male off the streets, even from shops,beaches and public pools over Ukraine to be forced into the war.

I have no sympathy either for Ukraine's army.
But these people are just forced to the front as Meat-shields.

Send an arty shell with instructions on how to surrender to the Z-Forces their way.
At least give them a chance to walk out alive.

Im thinking its the stategy tough of Kiev, they know they will not put up any resistance.
The Russians are not soulless killers.
but whatever will delay the russians, Zelensky does not care. that scumbag
Probably he got the idea whispered in his ear by an NATO advisor that should get an Zircon up his ass.

Bulgarian Prime Minister Kiril Petkov lost a no-confidence vote in the parliament on Wednesday, after a junior partner in his tenuous ruling coalition joined the opposition. The Harvard graduate and former Canadian citizen denounced his critics as Russian agents

https://www.rt.com/news/557651-bulgaria-government-falls-ukraine-economy/

What sort of a country elects someone that is not born in that country as a Prime Minister?

Backman wrote:If you look at the videos that Ukraine forces are sending in protest though Airbornwolf, they are asking for more ammo and equipment. Or food or something. They aren't trying to surrender.

If they put half the effort into surrendering as they do begging for more bullets , they would be safe and sound.

They are the same kinds of guys that are in this clip. If they are that stupid then they just have to die.

I seen the video's indeed of them requesting more gear.
I personally think these conscripts use it just as an excuse, as they know Kiev can not supply them with any of it.
They know they are in deep shit since the "professionals" got wiped out on the fronts they are supposed to replace.
Ive seen vids of some of these troops that did get the gear, selling it to the DPR as soon they got the front  

i agree with you that they pose an millitary obstacle that is to be neutralized.
Time and resources are on the Russian side.
There are just more ways than one for the RF troops to do that.

Either by Speakers, leaflets spread by red artillery shells or radio frequency intercept. An offer and instructions to Surrender is easily made.
If they refuse. so be it.
Then its an direct millitary solution.
They are in the way after all.

Besides being an humane thing to offer to conscripts.
If they choose to surrender, it is also an minor psy-ops victory.
They get allowed to call home, sowing dissent back in their home regions.
And its another small piece of information to RF command of how the situation is developing in the regions they come from.

It has so far proven an effective strategy to remove Kiev manpower from the fight without any bullet/shell fired.

Erk wrote:
What sort of a country elects someone that is not born in that country as a Prime Minister?

He is born in Bulgaria, and moved to Canada as a teenager. It was expected he will be staunchly pro-West giving his background.

caveat emptor wrote:

Erk wrote:
What sort of a country elects someone that is not born in that country as a Prime Minister?

He is born in Bulgaria, and moved to Canada as a teenager. It was expected he will be staunchly pro-West giving his background.

Canada is hostile towards Europe, the promote the war in Ukraine, and block essential components for the gas pipeline that feeds Europe from Russia, this only hurts EU citizens.

Does anyone on the ground in Russia know which laws related to the calling this conflict a SMO vs. a war were passed? Or any other related laws? And their enforcement?

I can't tell what is bullshit and what is real anymore.

JohninMK wrote:
Ukraine has been pulling back on its use of Turkish Bayraktar drones (TB-2s), which were initially effective at stopping Russian armored advances in the Battle of Kyiv, but are now far less useful since Russia's defenses have come online. "They were very useful and important in the very first days, stopping those columns, but now that they’ve built up good air defenses, they’re almost useless," said one pilot, who goes by Moonfish.
Now, Ukraine is limiting the use of TB-2s to 'rare special occasions and attack missions,' said one of the pilots.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/its-not-afghanistan-ukrainian-pilots-oppose-biden-provided-drones

Now you can see with your very own eyes, how infantile the propaganda served to the western audience is in reality.

Even if they are forced to admit the obvious, the way it is served must cover obvious failures and create some against the adversary ...

First, Ukraine is "limiting use" because a/ they hardly have any left, b/ Turks openly contest the deliveries of drones as the effects were putting the whole project in question, affecting the market potential of the product itself, and c/ they can do shit in real terms using them other than make the Russkies practice more turkey shooting.

Second, no, the Ukros didn't stop any Battle of Kyiv, as there was none. Russkies surrounded it, tied the Ukro forces there, controlled the airfield 20 km from the city center for the whole time they needed, and the Bayraktars used to be so effective, that Russian columns were parked along the roads for weeks.

The main issue with the western narrative is, that it cant get out of a given box. Nobody dares to claim that this conflict has proven the monstrous effectiveness of Russian AD, and its ability to cover troops in the field. Nobody would dare to compare the differences with any given NATO army either.
This war is a fucking eye-opener for everyone, yet not the MSM (this citation comes from MSM, zerohedne just repeats it) that continues to lie to its audience with all hands on deck.
Any NATO army can do shit with drone warfare. They all lack any serious air defense that can hit such small targets in numbers. In most cases, those Orlans would just fly above, as they operate out of Stinger engagement range. Sole systems capable to engage drones can be counted with two hands, for most of the biggest NATO armies, and with zero hands for the majority of them.

One of defense related portals here, just claimed that arming Orlans and other small drones is an act of desperation of Russia, can you imagine the shit level they already have inside the skulls?

The sole concept of leaving due to a law that restrict&punishes the lies is hilarious and tells all one needs to know about western media coverage

dionis wrote:Does anyone on the ground in Russia know which laws related to the calling this conflict a SMO vs. a war were passed? Or any other related laws? And their enforcement?

I can't tell what is bullshit and what is real anymore.

There is no prohibition to call it a war - except for common sense, which says that it is not a war. War is a special state of the state, this definition is in international law, and neither Russia nor Ukraine have declared that they are in a state of war. However, no one will grab you and put you in jail for calling a special operation a war.
Every time I am struck by the intensity of the stupidity of Western propaganda - as well as the number of people who believe it unconditionally in the West

Backman wrote:If you look at the videos that Ukraine forces are sending in protest though Airbornwolf, they are asking for more ammo and equipment. Or food or something. They aren't trying to surrender.
If they put half the effort into surrendering as they do begging for more bullets , they would be safe and sound.
They are the same kinds of guys that are in this clip. If they are that stupid then they just have to die.

This is a part I find seriously weird.
The positions that are being taken by the allied forces are filled with weapons. Tons of it, let it be NLAWs, Javelins, Pzfausts, Carl Gustav ... Stingers, Strelas, Iglas, Mistrals ... Everything there!
Yet they cry like little babies in tons of material, how outnumbered, outgunned, and out-everything they are.
If one compares the Ukro army now with its status in 2015, the difference is crystal clear.
The very first thing I noticed now, is ... lack of jars. No matter how funny it sounds, Ukro army in 2015 was running on jars with salo, pickles, and everything they could eat. Sure they could have just stolen all that goodies, but anyway. Now it is gone.
Uniforms now are obviously better and more unitary. They are better equipped, much better than in 2015, and better than republican units, that is sure. Lots of materials, where republican soldiers complain about that.
Yet they are losing the war, so need to find an explanation for this, while we witness that they are supplied very well and in numbers.

Another thing that brought my attention a while ago. Russkies were presenting books they have secured in the elementary school. It was a 10th class elementary for a subject called "civil defense". In lots of countries, this thing is being taught, it used to be obligatory in all WarPac member countries. Now it is already gone in most of Europe I guess, but ... not Ukro.
I saw that elementary. It was not a book for school kids, but a tactic manual for land forces. Things are being taught to platoon/squad commanders in land forces academies. In 10th class, for 16 y/o.

A whole society zombified, school kids being taught how to fight and squad tactics, no job other than military or military-connected.
This country was being turned into a military camp, for training an army for fighting Russia, that is sure.