Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

caveat emptor wrote:
The point, it seems to me, is in the structure of the army organization and in the structure of army thinking.  The NATO approach, which is now actively used in Ukraine, implies the possibility for any sergeant, as part of the implementation of the plan, to request exactly the resource that can help solve the problem.  But our system does not imply this: you need to go through the entire chain of approvals before the senior boss decides to allocate you the necessary funds, which, as you yourself understand, is problematic.

The means work according to the planned goals, but the plans of the senior commander may not coincide with the plans on the sector of the front, where there is a need for a heavier resource, and then you have to wait, and at this time the enemy is working and inflicting damage on us.  Then our offensives are thwarted, then our defenses break through.

Arkanghelsk wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

Oh everyone figured it out a long time ago, the zombification and so on that ALAMO mentioned

Yeah that's obvious. And Moscow's propaganda about Eastern Ukrainians being oppressed falls flat on its face. Sure some of them were oppressed - and then tortured, then buried. Those that didn't leave in time anyway. The rest of them either don't care enough or silently approved. That's the price of having done nothing for the last 8 years. But truth be told there was never a critical mass enough to oppose Maidan anywhere outside the Donbass. So yeah, we can say that they wanted it, or at least didn't mind it.

If everyone knew it then why pussyfoot? Or did the government really believe there would be a change of heart ?

Then we need a real change of government because idiots are in charge

We have established it was common knowledge that Ukrainians were complicit in anti Russian changes of their country

So why the kid gloves? Then it is no longer even negligence, but incompetence

Which is almost the same but not quite,  because in being negligent there is a light at the end of the tunnel that can be reached by purging laziness

But with incompetence, you can't fix stupid

calripson wrote:People anchor their expectations on their past experience. Stalin's legacy left people fearing the USSR and what the Red Army had accomplished for 30 years. Gorbachev, Yelstin and company (the immediate post-War generation) sold an Empire built with blood over 300 years for blue jeans, McDonalds, and crappy Western soap operas. Hard to respect or fear that. Putin had built up some credibility, but his endless redlines being crossed and the fact that 5 months into this conflict not even all of Donbass has been liberated hasn't done much to install respect or fear in anyone's hearts - hence the Kazaks selling weapons to Ukraine on the sly. Then again, Putin is a lawyer by training, and a very predictable one at that. His daughters spent much of their adult lives in Western Europe and he was very much invested in the immediate post-Soviet elite with all that entails.

Arkanghelsk wrote:

caveat emptor wrote:

Брат Арха́нгельск is again hitting low notes.
Majority of population is very inert and doesn't really care much about politics. It is always that loud minority that sets the tone. Especially, a well organized one, which fascists showed that they are through history.
To be honest, aside from Donbas and Crimea, most protests happened in Kharkov and Odessa, which were suppressed in blood. To the less degree in Zaporozhye and Kherson.
As for Russian elites, i would say that incompetence and delusion played a great part in mishandling Ukraine crisis. Also, parts of elites didn't care or it is/was to invested with western world to care.

We already know that

But people in Russia are like bewildered by whats going on

It's ridiculous

To me it didn't look like a minority, there was a ton of them there at the protests as there are on the front line

The real minority left and were less than 10 million people - the pro russian side are soviet boomers

And what's more, all these devushkas like ASB and Donbass Devushka which are complicit in supporting the morons at the top

And then the guys go to the front

It's a vicious cycle of imbeciles and shock value  

But completely missing the point, which is that none of those people which live in the Nazi areas are redeemable, and even if they were , it's so few of them that losing our men to "save them" is a moot point

We should have hit this stupid country with every weapon in every place it would hurt ,

What is there to preserve if Yuzmazh, Kharkov tank factory, Azovstal and other "economically productive" regions are levelled anyway?

None of the logic makes sense

sepheronx wrote:Do you people really think the Russian government isn't more knowledgeable than nobodies like us on the internet? they have an intelligence agency behind them as well.

flamming_python wrote:
There can be 500,000 Ukrainians dead or crippled by the end of all of this. A significant portion of the able-bodied adult male population. With another 10 million more having left. And what's left then? Heavily underpopulated, devastated territories. With the rest of the population having no mood to resist or opine either way by that point - but ultimately them thinking that they didn't need all these problems and that they lived fine before, under Kiev.
No Yuzhmash, Kharkov tank factory, Azovstal or anything anyway - leveled, out of date, with specialists having emigrated, and rest of the people not necessarily reliable for producing sensitive equipment.
And Russia can't leave the Ukraine at this point. As NATO would move back in. The Banderites would move back in to rule over the remaining carcass. The confiscated Russian money will fund it all.
Based on what I can see, Russia is doing the only sensible thing it can - which is just to find people it can work with in each region, installing them, and integrating the regions as much as possible with Russia's own economy.

ALAMO wrote:

sepheronx wrote:Do you people really think the Russian government isn't more knowledgeable than nobodies like us on the internet? they have an intelligence agency behind them as well.

No!
We, armchair marshalls, know the shit much more and better than guys sitting in a sphere filled of real time data and pictures, and ending a 15+ years of collective war-related higher degree education. Plus tried that in several hot wars around half of a planet already.
Let's face it : they know nothing. In oppose to us!      

flamming_python wrote:
There can be 500,000 Ukrainians dead or crippled by the end of all of this. A significant portion of the able-bodied adult male population. With another 10 million more having left. And what's left then? Heavily underpopulated, devastated territories. With the rest of the population having no mood to resist or opine either way by that point - but ultimately them thinking that they didn't need all these problems and that they lived fine before, under Kiev.
No Yuzhmash, Kharkov tank factory, Azovstal or anything anyway - leveled, out of date, with specialists having emigrated, and rest of the people not necessarily reliable for producing sensitive equipment.
And Russia can't leave the Ukraine at this point. As NATO would move back in. The Banderites would move back in to rule over the remaining carcass. The confiscated Russian money will fund it all.
Based on what I can see, Russia is doing the only sensible thing it can - which is just to find people it can work with in each region, installing them, and integrating the regions as much as possible with Russia's own economy.

You can't be more wrong my friend, but I can't blame you, as it is coming from your heart.
I do know that you are worried about the people who you find brotherly.
But for a while, Russia seems to be much more pragmatic than that.
Knowing all the aspects, the level of zombification, the human waves fleeing to Europe and Russia leaving there the rotten corps only.
They give a shit about the condition of the remains of Ukropistan when that all saga will end, sooner or later.
That is a very realistic approach.
They will create an Upper Volta there, a 10 mln parasite that will drain the EU and NATO assets dry.

RTN wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:I have you on ignore for good reason. Why, oh why, do I succumb to the temptation to just take a peek at your posts?  I should know better...  

Since you haven't figured it out yourself, let me break it to you......apart from being a fool you are a liar and a cheater. Much like a number of posters here, are borderline bipolar in their assessments.

SeigSoloyvov wrote:I mean any cease-fire would just be used to freely funnel weapons and make additional preparations.

If the russians agree to any ceasefire that's just a major major **** up