Russian special military operation in Ukraine #23

flamming_python wrote:All this absolute bullshit about how Russia doesn't have enough men sorely misses the fact that the overall number of Russian forces in theatre and the overall number of Ukrainian forces in theatre is irrelevant, and not even because Russia can transfer more troops/BTGs/whatever from Russia at a moment's notice; although it certainly can and the VDV in particular can be deployed anywhere within 12 hours.
But why it's ultimately irrelevant is because what actually matters is force concentration; not how big your army is in total. And Russia's mobility allows it to shift around the 100-150k it has in the Ukraine or however many it is - very quickly to where they are needed. Quicker than the Ukrainians although for them the absolute numbers also don't mean much; what matters is how many you can concentrate at a given area at the front. And for the Ukrainians that last part is difficult as it leaves them vulnerable to Russian cruise missile and airstrikes.

So you see, if Russia needed to outnumber the Ukrainian offensive force in Kharkov - then it would have done just that. But it didn't so the plan is different.

And yes Russia does have enough troops to counterattack.

ALAMO wrote:It's time to put jokes aside



Oh, and by the way, those Chechen battalions are not connected to the Gudermes training program, those guys are extra add.

thegopnik wrote:this is what is needed instead.

OminousSpudd wrote:

thegopnik wrote:this is what is needed instead.

I wonder if those were actually adopted in any significant number

Backman wrote:https://translated.turbopages.org/proxy_u/ru-en.en.2ae402df-631d0e24-b263427a-74722d776562/https/m.vz.ru/news/2022/9/10/1176889.html
The Russian Defense Ministry carried out a whole range of measures to mislead the Armed Forces of Ukraine, created the illusion that we have "weak defense" and allegedly there is no information about the preparation of an offensive in the areas of Balakleya and Izyum, now the main task is to defeat the group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, military expert Konstantin Sivkov told VZGLYAD newspaper. On Saturday, the Defense Ministry announced the regrouping of troops in the areas of Balakleya and Izyum.

"Our military knew that an offensive was being prepared, so now the troops are regrouping to destroy the group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU), which came to the areas of Balakleya and Izyum. It should be borne in mind that there are no fortified areas there, so the task of destroying the most combat-ready Ukrainian units will be solved quite successfully. This will take a few more days, " said Konstantin Sivkov, Doctor of Military Sciences.

Sivkov emphasizes that the diversionary maneuvers were carried out in order to "pull the AFU strike group out of the fortified areas." "If this group would have remained in Slavyansk or Kramatorsk, how many would have had to" pick out " it? And now it's in the palm of your hand.

^ i don't see how it could be anything else. There was offensives all along the line that were beat back with ease. But all of a sudden , Ukraine is just world beaters in this one area ?

thegopnik wrote:

ALAMO wrote:It's time to put jokes aside


Oh, and by the way, those Chechen battalions are not connected to the Gudermes training program, those guys are extra add.

this is what is needed instead.

Mir wrote:Why waist brand new stock when you have thousands upon thousands of old stock "smart" weapons?
Old gen Kh-59's and even dumb bombs are doing the job just fine.
Older stock long range cruise and attack missiles did a great job so far as well.

limb wrote:
Kh-59s and cruise missiles aren't good at destroying western SPGs and MLRS.

lyle6 wrote:

Mir wrote:Why waist brand new stock when you have thousands upon thousands of old stock "smart" weapons?
Old gen Kh-59's and even dumb bombs are doing the job just fine.
Older stock long range cruise and attack missiles did a great job so far as well.

Even better question - why bother responding to the shithead?
He's been asking the same question for, oh I don't know 6 months now, and he will never read your reply, he's only going to ask again.
The current Russian approach kills Ukrainians by the thousands while saving Russian PGM warstocks for the real fight, just leave it at that.

The KABb-500 variants you posted are the latest variants. I am sure they are using older versions like the KAB-500KR.

Moving targets can be quite difficult but that's what ATGM's are for.

Stealthflanker wrote:

limb wrote:
Kh-59s and cruise missiles aren't good at destroying western SPGs and MLRS.

There is no real answer yet even to Western or Western trained forces on Mobile launchers and to lesser extent self propelled gun.

Notice since the beginning of campaign.. there somewhat no real losses on Tochka launchers. Russian air defense shoot down Tochka missiles but finding and engaging the launcher is entirely different matter as it's extremely mobile and can even swim too.  HIMARS have similar perks except it cannot swim.

Even with the launcher got videoed in daytime transiting or shooting, there just no real way to engage them as soon as they are spotted unless they are making mistake by repeatedly use the same launching position or fail to relocate as soon as fire mission is complete.  Maybe one can get lucky and the launcher can be Iskander'ed or Oniks'ed but not every time that happens.

Same as S-300PT and PS. It is actually a good achievement to be able to find and engage them in the first place. Same as Buk's as NATO surveillance allows them flexibility Serbia didnt really have back in 1999.

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Anyway looking forward to see the counteroffensive from Russian side.  Don't give Ukrainian chance to do another Bucha.

ALAMO wrote:The only relevant part of the Russkie withdrawal is the fact, that they have left behind some loyal population and people who cooperated with the new authorities.
That makes them vulnerable to ukronazi retaliation, and that is why a mass evacuation of civilians is going on as we speak.
Still, it is a bad sign for other civilians who considered changing colors, but it will be something to take care of later.

limb wrote:

I agree about himars, but Pzh-2000s, krabs and caesars should be realy easy to destroy with russian helicopters and aircraft, since they're close to the frontline and have large thermal signatures.
The ka-52s, inokhodets's, forpost's and mi-28s radar or FLIR should be able to detect a pzh2000 without problem from at least 15km away. Destroying them should be trivial. just fire some uragan or smerch cluster munition rockets or destroy them with vikhrs or kab-20. So russian helicopters should casually make incursions 10-15km behind enemy lines.