Russian special military operation in Ukraine #23

PCR is very critical of the Kremlin, most of his points are accurate.

The main advantage Russia has over Ukraine, are vastly higher population from which to form armies, and a functioning Military Industrial Complex.

So, a win should be possible based on those two things alone.

I am still confounded why Russia do nothing about the import of NATO weapons, and official without interruption into Ukraine.

Well, after scrolling through a further 14 pages of mostly horse shit, I must say that I have a newfound respect for the power of Western propaganda. I can see why the US gives billions of dollars to various media conglomerates and "independents" across the world, and the reason is... because people are fucking idiots.

I probably shouldn't laugh at the Ukrainians who fight for the their cocaine snorting, homosexual, clown President and "EU values" when just across the border, equally gullible people are calling for regime change in their own country because foreign news outlets said that Ukraine is winning again so we need to replace  Putin with navalny. I can't blame Ukrainians for being easily deceived, manipulated and led to slaughter when so many "Pro-Russians" are screeching for a mass mobilization of conscripts to fill up the front lines which would lead to 10x more Russian KIA's than there currently are now, and for what? To deny the Ukraine cheap PR victories? So Russia doesn't look bad in front of people who never liked them anyway?

Demilitarization and Denazification.

Not holding on to every inch of territory gained... that's what the Ukraine does, that's why they lose anywhere between 300 and 1000+ troops a day. 

How many videos have we watched of Ukrainians huddled together like sheep in shallow trenches, abandoned houses and under trees just to see them absolutely shredded by Russian artillery? Yet we don't see the same from Russia. 

I have one last question for everyone here complaining about Russian military tactics, if you were in balakleya and 9000 Banderites was about to enter the village, would you rather be ordered to stay and fight to the death while heavily outnumbered  or ordered to retreat to a secure position?

The Russian govt and military is quite cynical about the propaganda war. They really don't give a f*ck. At all.

I don't think we can exclude the possibility that they took the propaganda L here and wanted to draw Ukraine forces out of kharkiv and into the open. Think of it. They got Ukraine forces and equipment pouring into open territory.

Russia is also overly concerned about civilians and infrastructure. They don't want a Mariupol 2.0.

zorobabel wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:When a man shits, he immediately releases the water...
The same should be done to the comments of Walle83, Arkhangelsk, Zorolabel (a scumbag who likes pictures of Nazis), Azi and the like. Well done Arkhangelsk - you have wonderful friends now and you have completely destroyed your credibility..
ZOROLABEL, remove the picture of the Russian plane from your profile - it's not for you, you're dishonorable.

In fact, everything I posted was just repeated in the latest post by Wargonzo. https://t.me/wargonzo/8212

I guess he is a pro-Ukraine tool as well?

Pull your head out of your ass and realize what is happening.

You've screwed up your career on this forum because you and your ilk will always be seen as a fifth columnist (at best) after a Russian victory. Remove the image of Su-34, better post HIMARS or M777.
And now I'm going to turn on the water after this message, you already know why..

Erk wrote:PCR is very critical of the Kremlin, most of his points are accurate.

The main advantage Russia has over Ukraine, are vastly higher population from which to form armies, and a functioning Military Industrial Complex.

So, a win should be possible based on those two things alone.

I am still confounded why Russia do nothing about the import of NATO weapons, and official without interruption into Ukraine.

PCR has some points. But his idea of Russia going full USA on Ukraine is not the answer. The initial 3 week war would be impressive. But the next decade of insurgency and chaos would be terrible. The answer is doing an operation like this with at least 2:1 or 3:1.

Podlodka77 wrote:You've screwed up your career on this forum because you and your ilk will always be seen as a fifth columnist (at best) after a Russian victory. Remove the image of Su-30, better post HIMARS or M777.
And now I'm going to turn on the water after this message, you already know why..

Lol, I don't have a 'career' on a forum, and the likes or dislikes do not concern me, as interesting as they may be for some. I have been right in everything I have said in the past 3 days, despite constant attacks. In fact my comments are not nearly the level of doomerism now being spread on RU military accounts on Telegram. I gather from the last page or two that there are still some that think the Kharkov front collapse is part of a Russian MoD 5D chess masterplan? Lmao

Unwillingness to learn from mistakes leads to the repetition of the same mistakes. Were lessons learned from the first phase of the war? Can you invade a country of 40 million and control an area the size of England with 100,000 troops? Looks like, possibly, no.

JohninMK wrote:Paul Craig Roberts has posted a rather different assessment of the Russian retreat (I get the impression that his point of view is being widely reflected within Russia at present)

"The Kremlin’s attempt to fight a war with minimal resources and no commitment to disrupt the government and functioning of Western Ukraine and the weapons flowing in from the US and NATO now brings the humiliation of having Ukrainian troops break through Russia’s thinly defended line in the Kharkov region of Eastern Ukraine.

I would be surprised if Russia, by far the superior power, doesn’t quickly regain control over the military situation in Donbass. But the Ukrainian success, no matter how limited or temporary, has doomed Putin’s “limited operation,” which, as I have emphasized, was doomed from the beginning.

It was doomed from the beginning by the Kremlin’s ridiculous assumption that Washington would permit the operation to be limited. The widening of the war was guaranteed. The fact that the war has widened is now understood by Russian TV hosts who say the proxy war in Ukraine between the US and Russia is over and Russia now faces a real direct war with the US and its NATO puppets. For Russia to continue in Ukraine, the Kremlin must fight a real war and knock out the government in Kiev and the governmental and civilian infrastructure that permits Ukraine to conduct war without Russian interference and which permits supply avenues for ever more dangerous Western weapons to be acquired by Ukraine. It is stunning that Putin thought he could drive Ukrainian troops out of Donbass and then sign an agreement ending the conflict.

The Ukrainian success in overrunning Russian positions will widen the war further. Europe’s enthusiasm which was waning will wax again, and Washington will up the provocations to increase the pressure on Putin. Neoconservatives will push for beefing up the US/NATO forces on Russia’s borders and trouble-making in former, but now independent, Russian provinces at the risk of convincing Russia that a broad scale invasion of Russia is being prepared while Russia is trapped in Ukraine. If this happens, it will light the fuse of nuclear war.

The Kremlin dropped the ball when the Kremlin permitted Washington to overthrow the Ukraine government and install a Russian-hating puppet. The Kremlin dropped the ball again when eight years ago the Kremlin let pass the opportunity to reincorporate Donbass into Russia, thus ending the conflict before it could begin. The Kremlin dropped the ball again when it launched a limited military operation confined to Donbass when what was called for was a lightning takedown of Ukraine before the West could respond.

What accounts for these strategic blunders by the Kremlin? I don’t know for sure. My speculation is that Putin was won over by globalism and has as his goal for Russia to be an accepted member of the West’s global order. This goal has imposed all sorts of restrictions on his range of action. Putin couldn’t accept the requests of the Donbass republics to be brought back home to Russia, because it would confirm the West’s propaganda that he intended to rebuild the Soviet empire. Putin couldn’t authorize a blitzkrieg conquest of Ukraine, because it would scare Europe into Washington’s arms forever. Putin has to operate within the confines of international law that Washington and NATO ignore in his effort to prove that Russia adheres to law and resorts to force only as a last resort.

Putin’ solution was agreements, such as the Minsk Agreement on which the Kremlin wasted eight years and the mutual security agreement the Kremlin attempted to get from Washington and NATO prior to the limited operation in Ukraine. Why so much emphasis on agreements even while the Kremlin rightfully complained endlessly of Washington breaking every agreement? It suggests that the Kremlin’s overriding goal has been to have Russia have its rightful place in the Western system, which left the Kremlin reactive, having denied itself a proactive policy of targeting its enemy.

To have such an unrealistic goal requires ignoring the Wolfowitz Doctrine of US Hegemony. It requires ignoring that the massive power and budget of the US military/security complex requires Russia as America’s #1 enemy. It was Trump’s goal of normalizing relations with Russia that brought about President Trump’s downfall. In the face of such powerful evidence as Trump’s demise, how was it possible for the Kremlin to hold on to its delusions and continue to speak of “our Western partners?”

In many ways Putin is a great leader and a man of peace, but he has seriously miscalculated the real situation. His tolerance of insults and provocations has encouraged more, and the provocations are on the verge of initiating a war that will destroy the Western world."

Anyone that's not a dimwitt has been detailing this since 14. So that's fine and all but Paul Craig Roberts is playing in dangerous waters here cause he knows that throwing a couple of positive bones in the end to lessen the incoming fire won't do (old trick that works on the sheep - "balance" - but not on the educated)...

What he's describing in detail is "high treason" - unintentional or not, history does not care. As it did not care for Gorby and his clan, history judged his actions all the same, consequences that were disastrous for Russia. Better watch his back, another hit job by the Saker and the other sheepherders may be incoming.

Girkin already being tried for treason on the web by the Putin cult. Watch out!

ucmvulcan wrote:Not a defeatist, but just an innocent question.  Why doesn't Russia do a temporary troop surge of say up to 200,000 to drive the Ukes out of Donestks, take the rest of Zaprozhiye and liberate Kharkov, and simultaneously launch airstrikes to knock out Ukraine's government, intel, and military leadership, hit all bridges and rail junctions across the Dniepr and dielectrify the country? Wicken, Blanken, and Nod and Eurotrash leaders should not be able to so easily make it to Kiev.  I get it, the Kiev op was designed to tie down forces so LPR and DPR could be liberated and the Kherson and Zaprozhiye corridors seized, but losing Kharkhov, while not leading to casualties, does only encourage the west and Ukraine and this has to be stopped.

Because in the 6 months of the SMO they have permanently crippled the West's economies much worse than the strategic bombing campaigns did the Reich.
They don't want this to stop and they have all the means to turn this into a recurring nightmare for the West for decades if need be.

zorobabel wrote:[q forum, and the likes or dislikes do not concern me, as interesting as they may be for some. I have been right in everything I have said in the past 3 days, despite constant attacks. In fact my comments are not nearly the level of doomerism now being spread on RU military accounts on Telegram. I gather from the last page or two that there are still some that think the Kharkov front collapse is part of a Russian MoD 5D chess masterplan? Lmao

Unwillingness to learn from mistakes leads to the repetition of the same mistakes. Were lessons learned from the first phase of the war? Can you invade a country of 40 million and control an area the size of England with 100,000 troops? Looks like, possibly, no.

Is it possible without . aving any propaganda losses ? Looks like possibly no.

lyle6 wrote:

ucmvulcan wrote:Not a defeatist, but just an innocent question.  Why doesn't Russia do a temporary troop surge of say up to 200,000 to drive the Ukes out of Donestks, take the rest of Zaprozhiye and liberate Kharkov, and simultaneously launch airstrikes to knock out Ukraine's government, intel, and military leadership, hit all bridges and rail junctions across the Dniepr and dielectrify the country? Wicken, Blanken, and Nod and Eurotrash leaders should not be able to so easily make it to Kiev.  I get it, the Kiev op was designed to tie down forces so LPR and DPR could be liberated and the Kherson and Zaprozhiye corridors seized, but losing Kharkhov, while not leading to casualties, does only encourage the west and Ukraine and this has to be stopped.

Because in the 6 months of the SMO they have permanently crippled the West's economies much worse than the strategic bombing campaigns did the Reich.
They don't want this to stop and they have all the means to turn this into a recurring nightmare for the West for decades if need be.

The SMO has nothing to do with crippling western economies.
When some country like Germany places sanctions against Russia, it's not doing anything to Russia, it's forbidding German citizens from buying Russian products.
The SMO is just a convenient opportunity to act as a cover story for restrictions they were imposing anyway.

The whole get off fossil fuel thing, or get off nuclear, is just an excuse for implementing energy austerity.
If you want to know who and why this is happening, do a search on WEF "The Great Reset". WEF have control over EU policy.
It's not an appropriate discussion for this thread, but it is the real reason behind the EU sanctions against Russia, not the SMO.

A couple pages ago , some 6th columnist doomer said he got inventory of Russian captured and abandoned equipment from some Ukrain source.

Ukrainian propaganda networks claim this is captured equipment of Russian Armed Forces. In fact, this is a repair plant in Crimea. Mixture of captured Ukrainian hardware and broken down Russian Armed Forces equipment can be seen. Recorded by a woman peacefully riding her bike and speaking Russian.

It is located in Novostepnoe, Crimeahttps://t.me/asbmil/4990

billybatts91 wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

PhSt wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Rather than taking your frustration over a phantom defeat out on the whole nation, take it out on the Nazis with guns. In fact all armed Ukrainian forces are legitimate targets. Plenty to choose from. Some juicy mercenaries along with them. And destroying them will actually end the war, not targeting power plants that Russia will just have to rebuild anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fair and reasonable person, but from my observation, this "Humanitarian" tactic by Russia is not helping them win this war. I don't know about you, but for me ANY type of method is acceptable as long as the Ends are met.

What if those methods are having to pull back to fight another day?

Ever thought of that?

That's what clowns like you said when they retreated from Kiev. Kharkov is lost.

Seriously what is it with all the folks in this thread that know better than the Russian military leadership?

They were clearly not taken by surprise and they have suffered absolutely minimal casualties in their withdrawal. They didn't do it for no reason, and it was orderly and well-organized. So now pipe down.

As for Kharkov, it was never taken in the first place. Some Russian recon platoons entered it during the first few days of the war to scope out whether the local elites are ready to give up the city as in Kherson. Turns out they weren't and double-crossed the Russians. As soon as those recon platoons started getting ambushed they withdrew and the whole city was bypassed.

caveat emptor wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
Did Gerasimov tell you that?
Or was it Dvornikov who confided his plans to you?

It is easy for you to be cynical. You're sitting somewhere in Питер while pro-Russian civilians and Russian soldiers are suffering in the meantime. Show , at least, some decency for them.
I understand that you might be confused with this war, as you showed in the beginning. And i can appreciate that given your political allegiance and everything. Being cynical at this moment doesn't put you in a good light.
I hope you find a way Pavel.

It's not easy or hard, nor am I showing any lack of decency
I have no information as to whether civilians in the area were warned by Russian troops or offered evacuation so I will withhold judgement.

What I'm telling you is the explanation that's most obvious. Anyone with a few brain cells to spare can figure out that Russia is up to something here, even the Ukrs have clocked on and are now trying to douse the enthusiasm of their bellicose and clueless supporters who honestly believe that a rout of Russian forces is in progress.
And we have seen barely any evidence of Russian losses so the exchange of firepower is clearly favouring it massively.

I mentioned before that this Russian focus on mobility and stand-off range, and being able to chose its confrontations reminds me of what I read about Mongol strategies. Add to that Tamerlane. They used their range and mobility to their supreme advantage to decimate enemy manpower and were seldom forced into a battle not on their terms. They never had any qualms about retreating or luring the enemy out. Held or abandoned territory was of no consequence.
Maybe not the most politically expedient comparison but that's what I see. And when you have such advantages you ought to make use of them.
In the modern day air-power dominance, available fuel supplies and mobile artillery/air-defences/etc... allow you to fight in an analogous way.
Meanwhile the Ukrainians are low on fuel and stuck in their stronghold areas and cities.

billybatts91 wrote:The morale among Russians is very low right now. Sad to see...

https://defenceforumindia.com/attachments/rdt_20220910_2151106988591719780127223-png.171158/

Scratch a 'Russian' find an Ukr

billybatts91 wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

ATLASCUB wrote:

flamming_python wrote:This thread has been overrun

And by coincidence the conversation has veered towards getting rid of Putin, Washingtons/Londons ultimate goal

Withdraw and nuke from orbit

Weren't you the one who was calling Putin a murderer, a monster, criminal etc etc... at the start of this operation? Weren't you the one who staunchly argued against the war on literally all grounds despite what was happening inside Ukraine for over 8 years? The one who flip flopped quickly on all of that when the threat of being cast out by the forum dimwitts and hive mind reached critical mass?

Yep that one.

The trolling here by certain accounts is off the charts, and yours is one of the most insidious ones. Dimwitts obviously can't notice shit.

Jury is out on Putin

But I didn't call for his removal because that's not what you do during wartime.
On the other end the Ukropathogen here is actively transforming people into advocating NATO war-aims.

All NATO has is flash, propaganda, media, spin, psyops, colour revolutions and all this immateriality. They're Chaos from Warhammer basically.
But if you don't fall for it they're powerless

War time? What war time, it's just a little "special military operation".

It's an SMO against the Ukraine. But essentially an existential war with the entire West

I find it amusing that these demoralization posters seem to post much less along a certain time of day/night. Makes me wonder.

thegopnik wrote:

If Ukrainians are dying like crazy why hasnt their momentum stopped. I guess heading to moscow is no longer a joke to laugh at next.

Karl Haushofer wrote:Twitter full of claims of ukrainian forces storming donetsk airport now.

Keep em coming

TMA1 wrote:I find it amusing that these demoralization posters seem to post much less along a certain time of day/night. Makes me wonder.

I wish the mods would remove half the propaganda pictures in this thread.

What's going on is significant.

NATO capitalized on the withdrawal of Russian forces in several towns.
For political reasons Russia left the defense of these towns to local militias, which we now see was a really bad decision.
It shows cities which are thinking about having a referendum on joining Russia, they they might be abandoned by the Russian military, and re-captured by Ukraine/NATO.
This is really bad optics.

Erk wrote:It shows cities which are thinking about having a referendum on joining Russia, they they might be abandoned by the Russian military, and re-captured by Ukraine/NATO.
This is really bad optics.

Are you suggesting that the NATzO occupation force will rough up the civilians who will support Russia? If this tactic works, then Russia can simply do the same treatment to Pro-Ukro Nazis in liberated areas. I have witnessed through experiments that with enough pain and torture a captive will eventually fold to your will.

PhSt wrote:

Erk wrote:It shows cities which are thinking about having a referendum on joining Russia, they they might be abandoned by the Russian military, and re-captured by Ukraine/NATO.
This is really bad optics.

Are you suggesting that the NATzO occupation force will rough up the civilians who will support Russia? If this tactic works, then Russia can simply do the same treatment to Pro-Ukro Nazis in liberated areas. I have witnessed through experiments that with enough pain and torture a captive will eventually fold to your will.

It is not speculation, because it has already happened in other towns.

Read this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre

https://translated.turbopages.org/proxy_u/ru-en.en.2ae402df-631d0e24-b263427a-74722d776562/https/m.vz.ru/news/2022/9/10/1176889.html
The Russian Defense Ministry carried out a whole range of measures to mislead the Armed Forces of Ukraine, created the illusion that we have "weak defense" and allegedly there is no information about the preparation of an offensive in the areas of Balakleya and Izyum, now the main task is to defeat the group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, military expert Konstantin Sivkov told VZGLYAD newspaper. On Saturday, the Defense Ministry announced the regrouping of troops in the areas of Balakleya and Izyum.

"Our military knew that an offensive was being prepared, so now the troops are regrouping to destroy the group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU), which came to the areas of Balakleya and Izyum. It should be borne in mind that there are no fortified areas there, so the task of destroying the most combat-ready Ukrainian units will be solved quite successfully. This will take a few more days, " said Konstantin Sivkov, Doctor of Military Sciences.

Sivkov emphasizes that the diversionary maneuvers were carried out in order to "pull the AFU strike group out of the fortified areas." "If this group would have remained in Slavyansk or Kramatorsk, how many would have had to" pick out " it? And now it's in the palm of your hand.

^ i don't see how it could be anything else. There was offensives all along the line that were beat back with ease. But all of a sudden , Ukraine is just world beaters in this one area ?

Sources with knowledge of previous Combats in Donbass claim that Ukraine has been baited to launch the offensive, in order to lure the largest contingent of the Ukrainian Army into a cauldron, after which they will be surrounded and attacked by a major counter offensive of Russian aligned forces.

This tactics has succeeded in 2 major battles during the 8 year long war in Eastern Ukraine.
The first time the Ukrainian Army got caught in a Cauldron in Donbass; President Poroshenko had to sign the Minsk 1 peace agreement, for the release of the Ukrainian Army.
The second time the Ukrainian army got caught; President Zelensky signed the Minsk 2 peace agreement.

If the latest Ukrainian offensive is a trap, it would explain why the Russian command talks about retreats, in public, but are silent about what to expect next.