Russian special military operation in Ukraine #25

Wagner PMC update

"8 prison transport trucks are transporting 400 prisoners in Tambov to a training area in southern Russia (possibly Wagner’s base in Molkino) likely before going to Ukraine. They say 10-12 prison trucks were seen in Belgorod last night "
https://t.me/russianhead/6825

flamming_python wrote:

Penal battalions

In all seriousness, hope these 'gentlemen' are held to the most impeccable conduct. The most impeccable. Whether in relation to commanding officers, civilians or enemy POWs. Else back to the slammer for you.
I have my misgivings as to the unit cohesiveness under fire, and esprit de corps of such formations, but anyway. We'll find out soon enough.

yes for sure, but a lot might be in there as product of the environment they grew up in without much hope. this could be an opportunity to not only find inner drive and self respect but possibly something more like comradery or purpose. offer them a new positive opportunity to better themselves. as you say, lets see. best of luck to them.

Big_Gazza wrote:Good vid by Alexander Mercouris, and he discusses the recent press conference by Putin regarding the SMO.  Starts in earnest at @19:20, runs until @48:00

Putin openly states that the SMO is intended to prevent the larger plan of US/EU/NATO to forment instability in Russia and trigger its breakup, using Ukraine as a tool to achieve their ends.  Thats an acknowledgement of the true reason for the conflict and its actual nature, ie a proxy wa with US/EU/NATO.

He states that Russia has used restraint but such will not last forever, and that if attacks on civvie infrastructure continue then restraint will evaporate.

He openly calls Ukropi actions as terrorist acts, including previously undisclosed attempts at attacks on nuclear power station facilities within Russia itself. This suggests that the Kremlin may indeed upgrade the SMO to an ATO.  Lets hope they do, and that the Russian military are finally allowed to take off the gloves.

When asked about Ukropi counterattacks, he said "let them try"... "lets see how it ends"...

Putin isn't concerned about Ukropi counterattacks, he's confident that the RGS knows what it is doing, that the plan is working, and that the Ukropi conduct will inevitably result in a sea-change in Russian operational tempo via a change in the terms of reference.



Putin also states that the relationship with India is rapidly strengthening like their relationship with China.  Both China and India are increasingly supportive of Russias actions, and are by and large setting aside their bilateral problems in the pursuit of a developing consensus over Ukraine and the actions of the hegemonistic West.

Alexander makes some good points, the Duran Shop should sell straight jackets to keep his hands still, it's distracting.

Erk wrote:

Alexander makes some good points, the Duran Shop should sell straight jackets to keep his hands still, it's distracting.

Ok, that gave me a laugh

Airbornewolf wrote:
Here you go:

https://odysee.com/@airbornewolf:8/18+!-Ukrainian-Mechanised-unit-panics-in-combat.:9

I would have PM'd you, but you are a hard man to reach

Thanks, Airbornewolf and Spherenox, but I better should not have asked....
I am not unsed to some of the footage but that kinda hit me and my fantasy...

flamming_python wrote:

Finally, you're speaking about the Caucasus. Not only did the Ossetians come from somewhere else and settle there, but plenty of others before and since. Kalmyks, Cossacks, Greeks, Nogais, Azerbaijanis, Turkmen, Meskhetian Turks, Kumyks, had all basically come from elsewhere over the past 1500 years and either displaced or assimilated populations that were there before them, or were employed as loyal colonists by outside empires.
It's a giant clusterfuck but because everyone did it, it really does not equate to the shit-story in Kosovo; which in fact developed a lot more recently in historical terms.

I can imagine that... And it was also a bit of a Babel's tower as well..

If I don't remember wrong from what I read in the past, when the greek colonists came in Colchis they almost basically needed many translators just to be able to communicate within a single village.

Even now Megrelian and Svan languages are not understandable by Georgian speakers from east Georgia, the different is larger than as n example the one between Russian and Polish.

Are the Russian Su 34, Su 35 operating in Ukraine carrying a fibre optic towed decoy?

Here in India, the Su 30MKIs are being equipped by DRDO with a fibre optic towed decoy.

Sujoy wrote:Are the Russian Su 34, Su 35 operating in Ukraine carrying a fibre optic towed decoy?

They aren't sadly.

THo to be fair the aerial situation in Ukraine does not really seem good anyway for towed decoy employment. Ukrainian PVO cleverly use Scout and shoot and Emmission control, as awell as being provided intelligence by NATO AEW. This give them edge by not really having to turn radar for long. Giving Russian pilot rather late early warning.

Also the low level bombing by Su-34 make it vulnerable to Manpads which towed decoy dont really address. While Ukrainian Su-27's and MiG-29 does not really seem to do Air-to Air mission. So chance of anyone getting a long range shot by R-27 is also kind of low. Jammer pod do works tho on that situation. But towed decoy give more leeway.

---------

I'm curious tho if at some point Russians will escalate by start shooting down those NATO ISR's. as everything is perfectly well within range of Russian Air defense and aviation.

Stealthflanker wrote:

Sujoy wrote:Are the Russian Su 34, Su 35 operating in Ukraine carrying a fibre optic towed decoy?

They aren't sadly.

THo to be fair the aerial situation in Ukraine does not really seem good anyway for towed decoy employment.  Ukrainian PVO cleverly use Scout and shoot and Emmission control, as awell as being provided intelligence by NATO AEW. This give them edge by not really having to turn radar for long.  Giving Russian pilot rather late early warning.

Also the low level bombing by Su-34 make it vulnerable to Manpads which towed decoy dont really address. While Ukrainian Su-27's and MiG-29 does not really seem to do Air-to Air mission. So chance of anyone getting a long range shot by R-27 is also kind of low.  Jammer pod do works tho on that situation. But towed decoy give more leeway.

---------

I'm curious tho if at some point Russians will escalate by start shooting down those NATO ISR's. as everything is perfectly well within range of Russian Air defense and aviation.

Why cant Su-34s do  high altitude bombing and recon during bad weather  from 9000-12000m, above the range of manpads and optically guided SAMs?

Radar guided sams can be spoofed by chaff. Dont tell russians dont have countermeasures against the buk radar.

limb wrote:
Why cant Su-34s do  high altitude bombing and recon during bad weather  from 9000-12000m, above the range of manpads and optically guided SAMs?

Radar guided sams can be spoofed by chaff. Dont tell russians dont have countermeasures against the buk radar.

Ideally or already done except no video of it. All we see so far is Su-34 using Iron bombs at low altitudes.

The thing about Buk that makes it hard to properly counter is that they actually only emit when opportunity arise. Also it comes with a TV tracker so it can actually launch and slave its radar to optical tracker and make jammer kinda useless as the information is not come from the radar.

It presented however an opportunity to engage using Kh-31. tho i am not sure how Russians fly their SEAD mission. The aircraft being fired upon may not be in position to engage, this requires 2nd plane which to engage the radar when it's still busy illuminating the target.

Big_Gazza wrote:Russians are the masters of trolling.  

https://twitter.com/ILRUSSO1/status/1571231559201525769

The next level of trolling would be to drop a few old washing machines filled with explosives from an Tu-22M3 onto Kiev. 

Statue of Alex Nevski erected in Melitopol, a gift from St. Petersburg (not the one in Florida)

The story behind one of the guys from the "mass grave"

Ukrainian infantry squad attacking Kherson region

Pay and repent - Kyiv is preparing Russia's surrender

FULL ARTICLE: https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/201868-platit-i-kajatsja-kiev-gotovit-rossii-kapituljaciju.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

How do world leaders really see the conditions for reconciliation in Ukraine? Let's step aside from Kyiv's fantasies and take a look at Erdogan's plan, which he handed over to Zelensky in Lvov at the end of August.

"1. Ukraine recognizes Crimea as Russian, the Verkhovna Rada recognizes this and introduces it as an amendment to the constitution.
2. The concept of an aggressor country is removed from all military doctrines of Ukraine and a neutral agreement on comprehensive cooperation is concluded, and it is ratified by the parliaments of both countries.
3. LDNR is recognized as separate republics, and their sovereignty is approved by all UN member states.
4. Kherson and Zaporozhye regions are holding a plebiscite under the auspices of the UN.
5. Ukraine receives a neutral non-bloc status and security guarantees that all UN member states give.
6. Complete demilitarization of Ukraine.
7. For the period of all reforms and implementation of all agreements, an international UN contingent is introduced into the territory of Ukraine to protect the border, nuclear power plants, ports and airports.
8. Early elections to the Verkhovna Rada.
9. Extraordinary presidential elections.
10. A complete change in the constitution of Ukraine and its complete transparency, equality for Russian speakers and neutrality

By mid-September, the office of the President of Ukraine gave birth to a response. In fairness, while they carry the status of unofficial - the source of the telegram channel "Image of the Future".

"1. Withdrawal of Russian troops from all territories occupied by them after 02/24/22.
2. Legislative transfer to Kyiv of all gold and foreign exchange reserves and seized assets of the Russian Federation and Russians on 1.09.22. The law on reparations must be adopted by the State Duma, the Federation Council and signed by the President.
3. Additional payment of reparations of €200 billion over 25 years in equal terms, also through the adoption of a law on financing infrastructure projects for Ukraine.
4. Free supplies of natural gas to Ukraine for five years from 1.01.23.
5. Holding a referendum on the status of Crimea no later than 01/01/24 under the auspices of the UN and international organizations.
6. Demilitarization of the entire European part of the Russian Federation with the withdrawal of all units and formations beyond the Urals.
7. Legislative reduction of the Russian army to 600 thousand people.
8. Admission of military observers to all military facilities of the Russian Federation, including closed research institutes and design bureaus.
9. Early elections of the State Duma with the full participation of international observers.
10. Early presidential elections with the full participation of international observers.”

NOTE: doesn't appear to be much to negotiate about here. 404 strikes again.

Stealthflanker wrote:

limb wrote:
Why cant Su-34s do  high altitude bombing and recon during bad weather  from 9000-12000m, above the range of manpads and optically guided SAMs?

Radar guided sams can be spoofed by chaff. Dont tell russians dont have countermeasures against the buk radar.

Ideally or already done except no video of it.  All we see so far is Su-34 using Iron bombs at low altitudes.

The thing about Buk that makes it hard to properly counter is that they actually only emit when opportunity arise. Also it comes with a TV tracker so it can actually launch and slave its radar to optical tracker and make jammer kinda useless as the information is not come from the radar.

It presented however an opportunity to engage using Kh-31. tho i am not sure how Russians fly their SEAD mission. The aircraft being fired upon may not be in position to engage, this requires 2nd plane which to engage the radar when it's still busy illuminating the target.

Whats the zoom and range of the optical tracker of the buk m1? Using saclos guidance to hit a fighter sized target like 15km away should be very difficult. flying If radar is turned on at all, its bound to trigger RWR. MAWS if missile is fired at all. Su-30, Su-34 can use superior energy flying at 10000-12000m to immediately turn away from the radar signal. The buk m1 only has a max range of 35km, so its NEZ against a high flying maneuverwble supersonic aircraft should be very low.

limb wrote:
Whats the zoom and range of the optical tracker of the buk m1? Using saclos guidance to hit a fighter sized target like 15km away should be very difficult. flying  If radar is turned on at all, its bound to trigger RWR. MAWS if missile is fired at all. Su-30, Su-34 can use superior energy flying at 10000-12000m to immediately turn away from the radar signal. The buk m1 only has a max range of 35km, so its NEZ against a high flying maneuverwble supersonic aircraft should be very low.

It's not Saclos but more like a Semi active laser homing but using radar instead.

and the problem here is the -response- time. Can you instanteneously respond to a threat at close range in the first place ? The Optical tracker may have shorter range than 9S35 radar BUT. It give very short warning time.

Indeed, engaging a vehicle with a modern 30mm autocannon ammunition with a .50 is suicidal...

Big balls, small brain.

A metaphor for the whole conflict really...

Sharif PM of Pakistan

The fact of the matter is that the US was prepared to have good relations with communist China because they perceived the Soviet Union as a greater threat... to their domination of the whole world... if they had given up that dream of being in charge of everyone (which we don't want by the way... most countries like independence and don't like being told what to do by anyone) and just been friendly to China and to the Soviet Union there would be no need for the cold war and conflict.

A strong developing Pakistan is no threat to Russia, just as Russia is no threat to a peaceful developing Pakistan... growing by trade and cooperation is a better path than war and hate.

Taliban shelling Uzbeks make sense, taliban want Russian approval for pipeline to shore up their government

Russia needs guarantees from talibs-

Cheap energy for Pakistan and India will be good for both countries and Afghanistan is going to benefit from transit fees the way Ukraine and Poland used to... but I bet Russia gets less shit from the Taliban than they get from the Poles and nazis.

The huge irony is when this operation is finished if the west is still getting Russian gas piped to them they will probably demand it goes through NSII so they are not funding the neutral Ukrainians and the new Russian Federation members...

Russia should get Ukraine done so that it can deal with this US proxy in Kazakhstan.

They can do both... it is more important to get the Ukraine sorted correctly and properly than to get it done now.

I guess that all people who use DJI drones are fluent in Chinese.

Do such drones come with encrypted control and data channels?

I guess you have made som fuckup with quoting bro

Nah, just lazy... it is a full quote of my post with his own comments added directly and highlighted by making them bold.

Geez man. I've only been on team doom for a couple days and you're cursing me out more than the perma doomers. Very Happy
I am not a perma doomer. Even the q and a Putin did recently had a calming effect.

In a month you will look back at your own panic attack and recognise it for what it is.

It is like people who support very successful sports teams absolutely losing it and abusing their very good sporting teams because the other team beat them on this occasion... except it is not even that...

Looking at the video of what Russian forces abandoned... fucking T-80 tanks... damn fuel guzzlers... and the doom sayers think the solution is to send more soldiers and more fuel guzzling vehicles in there... Russia needs light and highly mobile vehicles there... preferably not all brand spanking new because they might have problems with brand new stuff too... float like a butterfly and sting like a Grad/TOS/Smerch/Iskander armed dragon.

As I have said when we have discussed the T-62Ms - there will be a time when having any tank simply beats not having one

Some might laugh at the ASU-85, but except for tanks the ASU-85s gun can penetrate any non tank target from any angle, and when firing at troops dug in or other fixed positions, the volume inside makes it more comfortable than some armoured vehicles.

See the rich folk in Moscow and Saint Petersburg aren't on the list.

Are you trying to suggest the rich folk in Russia are the same as rich folk everywhere...

There is a joke in Serbia that reads; "What are the residents of Serbia who live outside Belgrade called? The answer is; Outsiders"...

In the UK it would be everyone outside London, and in New Zealand it would be everyone outside Auckland...

It sounds plausible. It doesn't look like the best strategy to me as it can easily cause friendly casualties.

And the Orcs are well known for being very careful regarding casualties of their military and their civilian populations... NOT.

American HARM missiles have shown zero effectiveness against Russian radars.

Their success comes from being a weapon added to an attack aircrafts loadout or a fighter supporting attack aircraft during a strike. When an enemy radar turns on you lock and fire a missile, forcing the radar to shut down for self preservation.

The fact they don't hit anything is not as important as the enemy can no longer use radar as you pass through or near the target you are striking.

Obviously you need a lot of missiles in the strike package to keep those radars off and their lack of kills looks bad in stats, but if it prevents the enemy painting your aircraft and shooting them down it is doing its job.

Interesting that the west never really invested a huge amount into such weapon types... probably the best system is the British ALARM, which is a very clever missile with a range of modes and functions... including one mode where as you approach enemy airspace you launch an ALARM and it climbs up to very high altitude in a vertical climb and then it deploys a parachute and shuts down its engine and listens for a radar signal. If it detects a signal it cuts the parachute and lights up a second stage rocket and flys down and hits the target.

Of course its main problem is the same problem HARM has... Soviet SAMs are designed to shoot them down directly.

HARMs loved serbian dummy radar emmiters made out of civilian antenna and electronics.

I remember reading that one of the decoys they used were standard microwave ovens with the transparent doors cut out so the microwaves could escape out the hole in the door. Don't know whether it was true or just bullshit of course... but an amusing story anyway.

Not buying it. 5th column scum will be padding out the numbers, and passing off all natural deaths in Russia over the last 7 months as "military related", ie the deceased was once conscipted. Follow the money, how much are BBC paying for this "service" and who does it go to? If anyone thinks this is genuine then I have a bridge to sell them.

Yes, you can't be a liar for a living and then expect people to believe anything you say.

The irony is that the west claims RT is a branch of the Russian government and is a propaganda broadcaster, but I would say they were more independent than the BBC was with British and US propaganda... often they actually generate it.

I have my misgivings as to the unit cohesiveness under fire, and esprit de corps of such formations, but anyway. We'll find out soon enough.

I remember a video showing Russian troops and they found this conscript under a truck with his hands tied to something so it looked like he was reaching up and fixing something... he was actually sleeping. When he was woken up the western reporter talked to him and tried to get him to denounce his country, and the guy got really agitated saying sleeping on the job is one thing but he was a good soldier who would defend his mates with his life and he loved his country.

Don't judge people by their actions... some of them might have personal reasons to do a very good job in Ukraine... some might have a grudge to settle too.

Plenty of working age men left the Ukraine to go to the west but lots also went to Russia too because they didn't like what was happening in the Ukraine.

Russia is the best chance of a decent future for the people living there now and if I was Ukrainian I would want to go back and help sort it out too.

Haven't you seen those Hollywood movies about the Dirty Dozen or that Canadian TV Show Dark Matter where the bad guys were given a chance at redemption and took it and became good guys... if it was on TV it must be true right?

Alexander makes some good points, the Duran Shop should sell straight jackets to keep his hands still, it's distracting.

Or sparkly gloves and he can do a Jazz hands show while he is talking...

Sure we can fool ourselves by seeing the things for Russkie via ping glasses, still, the situation is very much different from the fairy tales being lectured to the population.

The core point I have been making is that the west has done this to itself... Russia was happy to sell them cheap energy and put up with most of their shit, but they had to interfere in the Ukraine and try to take the port of Sevastopol as a HATO port just to rub Russias nose in it, and look at where we are now.

Are the Russian Su 34, Su 35 operating in Ukraine carrying a fibre optic towed decoy?

I would think they are using the best gear they have, but I am not sure a towed decoy would work against an optically guided BUK...

Why cant Su-34s do high altitude bombing and recon during bad weather from 9000-12000m, above the range of manpads and optically guided SAMs?

BUK can reach 15km altitude... and can be used in optical guidance mode.

Radar guided sams can be spoofed by chaff. Dont tell russians dont have countermeasures against the buk radar.

When used in optical mode BUK acts more like an ATGM than a radar guided SAM.

NOTE: doesn't appear to be much to negotiate about here. 404 strikes again.

Can't expect them to suddenly get smart.

They signed the Minsk agreements and violated them... I wouldn't trust them signing anything else... even with the French and Germans cosigning the agreement... totally worthless.

Whats the zoom and range of the optical tracker of the buk m1? Using saclos guidance to hit a fighter sized target like 15km away should be very difficult. flying If radar is turned on at all, its bound to trigger RWR. MAWS if missile is fired at all. Su-30, Su-34 can use superior energy flying at 10000-12000m to immediately turn away from the radar signal. The buk m1 only has a max range of 35km, so its NEZ against a high flying maneuverwble supersonic aircraft should be very low.

The BUK has a tracking radar and a search radar... the tracking radar is on the launch vehicle so every launch vehicle has one... the tracking radar normally tracks the missile just launched and the target and sends flight commands to the missile to steer it on an intercept course with the target.

With optical guidance the target isn't tracked by the tracking radar, but flight corrections are generated by comparing the point of aim of the optics system with the location of the out going missile, course correction signals could be sent by tracking radar but they don't need to be directional... more like a radio signal that the missile receives and responds to.

Hitting a fighter sized target 15km is easy have you not heard of optical zoom lenses, and the BUK has a rather large warhead with a proximity fuse so a direct hit is not needed.

The optically guided Vikhr has a CEP of 80 centimetres at 8km range... draw a circle 0.8m across and a missile aimed at the centre point of that circle will land inside that circle 50% of the time... times it by four, 3.2m and 99% of all missiles fired will be inside that circle.... and that was in the 1990s. With new optics and lasers the performance has improved.

The radar and optics on even the old BUK were pretty good.

TASS; SMO news;

* One of the battalions of the Ukrainian nationalist formation "Aidar" of the 53rd mechanized brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) in the Donetsk People's Republic has lost more than half of its personnel as a result of hostilities. This was stated on Sunday by the official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry, Lieutenant-General Igor Konashenkov.
"During the fighting in the area of ​​the settlement of Zaitsevo of the Donetsk People's Republic, the 24th battalion of the Aidar national formation of the 53rd mechanized brigade lost more than half of its personnel. The command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine withdrew the remnants of the unit to Chasov Yar of the Donetsk People's Republic," he said.


* Aviation, missile troops and artillery during a special operation in Ukraine hit about 180 targets of the Armed Forces of Ukraine per day, including the point of coordination and control of missile strikes by a group called "Primorye" in the Nikolaev region. This was stated on Sunday by the official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry, Lieutenant-General Igor Konashenkov. "Strikes by operational-tactical and army aviation, missile forces and artillery hit the control and coordination center of missile strikes of the Primorye group in the Shurino region of the Nikolaev region," he said. According to Konashenkov, three command posts of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were also hit in the Chervoniy Oskol districts of the Kharkiv region, Seversk of the Donetsk People's Republic and Pershotravneve of the Zaporozhye region. In addition, the manpower and military equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were hit in 127 districts, including the Kraken national formations in the Nikolaevka and Kramatorsk regions of the DPR and the bases of foreign mercenaries of the American private military campaign (PMC) Academia. In addition, 47 artillery units were hit.
According to him, an ammunition depot of the 14th mechanized brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which contained more than 7.5 thousand shells for Western artillery systems, was destroyed near Kharkov. Also in the Dolinka region of the Zaporozhye region was the ammunition depot of the 128th mountain assault brigade.



* The Russian Aerospace Forces in the Kramatorsk region destroyed an American M777 howitzer of 155 mm caliber, an S-300 radar and an air defense radar station in the DPR. This was announced by the official representative of the Russian Ministry of Defense, Lieutenant-General Igor Konashenkov.


*
Four brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU) lost about 200 servicemen in the Donetsk People's Republic and Zaporozhye region in a day as a result of massive strikes by the Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS), missile forces and artillery. This was stated on Sunday by the official representative of the Russian Defense Ministry, Lieutenant-General Igor Konashenkov. "The Russian Aerospace Forces, rocket troops and artillery inflicted massive fire strikes on units and reserves of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. In the area of ​​​​the settlement of Kirovo, Zaporozhye region, units of the 65th mechanized brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were defeated by concentrated fire strikes. Enemy losses amounted to 100 Ukrainian servicemen, as well as more than 10 units of military equipment," he said.
In addition, according to Konashenkov, the enemy lost more than 110 servicemen and 20 units of military equipment as a result of Russian army strikes on the positions of the 54th, 93rd mechanized brigades and the 10th mountain assault brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the areas of the settlements of Verkhnekamenskoye, Disputed, Berestovoe, Artemovsk and Zaitsevo in the DPR.


* Russian air defense systems shot down eight Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) in a day, and also intercepted eight shells of HIMARS multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS). This was announced on Sunday by the official representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Lieutenant-General Igor Konashenkov.

franco wrote:Pay and repent - Kyiv is preparing Russia's surrender

FULL ARTICLE: https://topwar-ru.translate.goog/201868-platit-i-kajatsja-kiev-gotovit-rossii-kapituljaciju.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

How do world leaders really see the conditions for reconciliation in Ukraine? Let's step aside from Kyiv's fantasies and take a look at Erdogan's plan, which he handed over to Zelensky in Lvov at the end of August.

"1. Ukraine recognizes Crimea as Russian, the Verkhovna Rada recognizes this and introduces it as an amendment to the constitution.
2. The concept of an aggressor country is removed from all military doctrines of Ukraine and a neutral agreement on comprehensive cooperation is concluded, and it is ratified by the parliaments of both countries.
3. LDNR is recognized as separate republics, and their sovereignty is approved by all UN member states.
4. Kherson and Zaporozhye regions are holding a plebiscite under the auspices of the UN.
5. Ukraine receives a neutral non-bloc status and security guarantees that all UN member states give.
6. Complete demilitarization of Ukraine.
7. For the period of all reforms and implementation of all agreements, an international UN contingent is introduced into the territory of Ukraine to protect the border, nuclear power plants, ports and airports.
8. Early elections to the Verkhovna Rada.
9. Extraordinary presidential elections.
10. A complete change in the constitution of Ukraine and its complete transparency, equality for Russian speakers and neutrality

By mid-September, the office of the President of Ukraine gave birth to a response. In fairness, while they carry the status of unofficial - the source of the telegram channel "Image of the Future".

"1. Withdrawal of Russian troops from all territories occupied by them after 02/24/22.
2. Legislative transfer to Kyiv of all gold and foreign exchange reserves and seized assets of the Russian Federation and Russians on 1.09.22. The law on reparations must be adopted by the State Duma, the Federation Council and signed by the President.
3. Additional payment of reparations of €200 billion over 25 years in equal terms, also through the adoption of a law on financing infrastructure projects for Ukraine.
4. Free supplies of natural gas to Ukraine for five years from 1.01.23.
5. Holding a referendum on the status of Crimea no later than 01/01/24 under the auspices of the UN and international organizations.
6. Demilitarization of the entire European part of the Russian Federation with the withdrawal of all units and formations beyond the Urals.
7. Legislative reduction of the Russian army to 600 thousand people.
8. Admission of military observers to all military facilities of the Russian Federation, including closed research institutes and design bureaus.
9. Early elections of the State Duma with the full participation of international observers.
10. Early presidential elections with the full participation of international observers.”

NOTE: doesn't appear to be much to negotiate about here. 404 strikes again.

Turdlensky really does need to kill himself.
I think he was watching to much of the Ali G film when coked up last night.
Here's the link 0:28 onwards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVfw9U02GB8

And kebab boy Turdogan needs to get fucked by a goat.
Altho Im sure he would enjoy that.

Hole wrote:

Big_Gazza wrote:Russians are the masters of trolling.  

https://twitter.com/ILRUSSO1/status/1571231559201525769

The next level of trolling would be to drop a few old washing machines filled with explosives from an Tu-22M3 onto Kiev. 

Well, why not. In Vietnam a US Navy Skyraider dropped a toiletbowl on the North Vietnamese positions. So carpetbombing with Miele washing machines , I say Yes!