Russian special military operation in Ukraine #26

mnztr wrote:


I question the authenticity of the RAND doc It s a bit to convenient, although that is pretty much the plan.  

The usual American "think tanks" are openly imperialist warmongering scumbags.
Atlantic Council, Jamestown, Rand the now disbanded "Project for a new American |Century". Its easy to understand their ideas "full spectrum dominance", "Washington Consensus", its global domination.

Release a fake document to counter the real ones that basically the same thing. Its their childish version of "plausible deniability".
When u have McCain and many others openly laughing and joking with Banderite leaders openly doing Sieg Heil gestures, u know what shit is going on.

Oh, my friendly armchair field marshals have been busy at night
How is the campaign going, comrades?
Ordered some fronts and tank armies to advance, lately?
Called Putin to tell him that he is a fag and chicken?
My brave tin soldier generals, I salute you!


(I just guessing, by the number of not displayed posts made by all my zoo personnel )

How accurate is this analogy?

ALAMO wrote:Oh, my friendly armchair field marshals have been busy at night
How is the campaign going, comrades?
Ordered some fronts and tank armies to advance, lately?
Called Putin to tell him that he is a fag and chicken?
My brave tin soldier generals, I salute you!


(I just guessing, by the number of not displayed posts made by all my zoo personnel )

ALAMO, I take my hat off to you because I see that you are the most active against the fifth columnists - You and Garry..
The whining about the plane was active tonight, as far as I can see. People don't seem to know that KNAAZ produces Su-35S and Su-57, NAPO Su-34M and IRKUT Su-30SM2.
I just wonder if those fools realize that with the partial mobilization, Russia raised the "ladder to a higher level" and thus made it clear (first of all to the West) that it is ready to go further than that.

ALAMO wrote:Oh, my friendly armchair field marshals have been busy at night
How is the campaign going, comrades?
Ordered some fronts and tank armies to advance, lately?
Called Putin to tell him that he is a fag and chicken?
My brave tin soldier generals, I salute you!


(I just guessing, by the number of not displayed posts made by all my zoo personnel )

Ill celebrate when a city of 30000 people (artemovsk) and a tiny hamlet(veselaya dolina) surrounded by concrete bunkers is liberated after 6 months.

These Iranian drones have impressed me so far with payload and accuracy, I get the need to strike deep behind enemy lines but they seem perfect for hitting staging areas , pontoon bridges  and enemy groupings ie Liman. I find it hard to comprehend that Russia with its airforce, artillery , and now these drones has failed for days now to destroy the crossing and bridgehead that the Nazis have created near Liman. Its even more frustrating when I remember how much the Russians struggled to cross the same river and make gains themselves.
Call me what you want but this is the DNR , so bs excuses will not do.

No apparent issues in Kherson, even taking terrain into consideration, shouldn't be much different in the east, so begs the questions wtf are they doing.
https://t.me/intelslava/37904

Ukrainians are claiming that theyre using latge amounts of quadcopters to visually detect Russia ln aircraft flying on the deck and they give warning to MANPAD teams. I already saw footage fr a Ukrainian drone in Kherson flying at around 300m observing a su-34 flying at ~40m and dropping bombs. Thats probably how they shot down the 2 sukhois(apparently the one with burning engine also crashed) and is concerning.

Serberus wrote:These Iranian drones have impressed me so far with payload and accuracy, I get the need to strike deep behind enemy lines but they seem perfect for hitting staging areas , pontoon bridges  and enemy groupings ie Liman. I find it hard to comprehend that Russia with its airforce, artillery , and now these drones has failed for days now to destroy the crossing and bridgehead that the Nazis have created near Liman. Its even more frustrating when I remember how much the Russians struggled to cross the same river and make gains themselves.
Call me what you want but this is the DNR , so bs excuses will not do.

No apparent issues in Kherson, even taking terrain into consideration, shouldn't be much different in the east, so begs the questions wtf are they doing.
https://t.me/intelslava/37904

They'll just say keeping those bridgheads untouched is 3D, no, actually 5D chess

limb wrote:Ukrainians are claiming that theyre using latge amounts of quadcopters to visually detect Russia ln aircraft flying on the deck and they give warning to MANPAD teams. I already saw footage fr a Ukrainian drone in Kherson flying at around 300m observing a su-34 flying at ~40m and dropping bombs. Thats probably how they shot down the 2 sukhois(apparently the one with burning engine also crashed) and  is concerning.

Makes sense considering the video of su30 being downed was shot by enemy drone. I fail to see the reasoning behind risking su34 and su30 flying low on dumb bombing missions which exposes them to MANPADS and short range AA , if they have a shortage of smart munitions and stand off weapons why not use su24s instead

Serberus wrote:

limb wrote:Ukrainians are claiming that theyre using latge amounts of quadcopters to visually detect Russia ln aircraft flying on the deck and they give warning to MANPAD teams. I already saw footage fr a Ukrainian drone in Kherson flying at around 300m observing a su-34 flying at ~40m and dropping bombs. Thats probably how they shot down the 2 sukhois(apparently the one with burning engine also crashed) and  is concerning.

Makes sense considering the video of su30 being downed was shot by enemy drone. I fail to see the reasoning behind risking su34 and su30 flying low on dumb bombing missions which exposes them to MANPADS and short range AA , if they have a shortage of smart munitions and stand off weapons why not  use su24s instead

Exactly. Im extremely frustrated that in this war, theyre not using Su-24M2s as much, since theyre more expendable. Also no targeting pods at all for su-30s.

Stealthflanker wrote:

limb wrote:
Whats the zoom and range of the optical tracker of the buk m1? Using saclos guidance to hit a fighter sized target like 15km away should be very difficult. flying  If radar is turned on at all, its bound to trigger RWR. MAWS if missile is fired at all. Su-30, Su-34 can use superior energy flying at 10000-12000m to immediately turn away from the radar signal. The buk m1 only has a max range of 35km, so its NEZ against a high flying maneuverwble supersonic aircraft should be very low.

It's not Saclos but more like a Semi active laser homing but using radar instead.

Thats basically the definition of SARH. Missile riding on a radar beam instead of laser. SARH can be spoofed since the 1950s cuz RWR and chaff.

GarryB wrote:Fitters and Floggers were lost too.

They were much cheaper to replace, and in this war would be expendable even if upgraded.

Funny because Su-25s have all those, while the Fitters and Floggers had speed and flares.

Su-25s have landed with one engine taken out... something a Fitter and Flogger simply can't do.

Vast majority of Su-25s crashed after getting hit by MANPADs, and if they got back to base the airframe was unusable. The point isnt to limp home, but not to get hit. The Su-22M4 and MiG-27K had near equal or equal countermeasure suites and could fire guided weapons from safer ranges.

No it wasn't, the troops on the ground said the Su-25 was rather better at finding the enemy positions they directed them to and hitting the enemy positions in Afghanistan... and since.

1. Afghanistan was COIN, this isn't.
2. This isnt 1979. You don't use eyeballs to detect enemy troops, you use FLIR targeting pods, and the Su-22M4 and MiG-27 couldve been easily upgraded to carry them.

The Su-34 of today is vastly superior to Su-22 or Su-17 or MiG-27 or Su-24s from the 1970s.

Not when dropping dumb bombs from low altitude.

I would have to disagree... for striking specific targets like a bridge or building they were very good but operating over the battlefield they were too fast.

They're superior ina near peer conflict. Speed is important in this war. Su-22M4s and MiG-27s couldve been used to strike bridges on the dniepr or kremenchug without fear of attrition.

The Su-25SM3 has a pretty good laser and EO system fitted, but much of the time they don't roam the battlefield looking for targets of opportunity, they are normally sent on specific missions to hit enemy forces in specific locations as identified by ground forces.

The Su-22M4 and MiG-27 can do the same thing just as well. You're basically admitting the Su-25 doesnt do CAS in this war, loitering over the battlefield, but just does individual strikes.

I would have to disagree... for striking specific targets like a bridge or building they were very good but operating over the battlefield they were too fast.

This is what this war is. Drones wouldve been ideal, but russia doesnt have them in any meaningful numbers, until possibly now.

Serberus wrote:

limb wrote:Ukrainians are claiming that theyre using latge amounts of quadcopters to visually detect Russia ln aircraft flying on the deck and they give warning to MANPAD teams. I already saw footage fr a Ukrainian drone in Kherson flying at around 300m observing a su-34 flying at ~40m and dropping bombs. Thats probably how they shot down the 2 sukhois(apparently the one with burning engine also crashed) and  is concerning.

Makes sense considering the video of su30 being downed was shot by enemy drone. I fail to see the reasoning behind risking su34 and su30 flying low on dumb bombing missions which exposes them to MANPADS and short range AA , if they have a shortage of smart munitions and stand off weapons why not  use su24s instead

Serberus, I would be worried if LIMB liked my comments..

Su-24s might be expendable but pilots are not. Of course Russia will use the aircraft with more survivability.

limb wrote:
Exactly. Im extremely frustrated that in this war, theyre not using Su-24M2s as much, since theyre more expendable.  Also no targeting pods at all for su-30s.

I have to agree with you. 
I don't get what is the point of risking to loose a fighter like Su-30sm or Su-34 when you can use artillery or kamikaze drone to hit infantry groups or armored vehicles. 
Maybe speed + surprise factor...

Btw, any thoughts how many Su-30 and Su-34 were lost so far?
Acc. to Oryx which is famous to exaggerate thing it is about 11 su-30sm and 13 su-34.

lancelot wrote:Su-24s might be expendable but pilots are not. Of course Russia will use the aircraft with more survivability.

How is the Su-34 more survivable when  doing low altitude runs dropping dumb bombs right above the target compared to the Su-24M2? Its more survivable at high altitude, I agree.

Acc. to Oryx which is famous to exaggerate thing it is about 11 su-30sm and 13 su-34.

Oryx is a lying turkroach. So far numbers of destroyed Su-34s are: 2-4 destroyed in march, 1 destroyed by friendly fire in july, 1-2 destroyed after, judging by russian OSINT like rybar, whos far more reliable. Total: maximum of 7. Still pretty bad.

Regarding Su-30SM: 1-2 destroyed in march, possibly 1-2 destroyed after. Up to 12 Su-30s destroyed in Saki airbase in august.  Total: up to 4 Su-30SM, up to 12 Su-30M2 of the navy.

Su-35: 1-2 destroyed in march, 1 destroyed by friendly fire in july. Total: Up to 3.

This is inexcusable tho. Russia can only produce like 4-5 Su-34s and 2-3 Su-35s per year due to sanctions and export orders. They need a larger airfleet to cover more ground.

Ned86 wrote:

limb wrote:
Exactly. Im extremely frustrated that in this war, theyre not using Su-24M2s as much, since theyre more expendable.  Also no targeting pods at all for su-30s.

I have to agree with you. 
I don't get what is the point of risking to loose a fighter like Su-30sm or Su-34 when you can use artillery or kamikaze drone to hit infantry groups or armored vehicles. 
Maybe speed + surprise factor...

Btw, any thoughts how many Su-30 and Su-34 were lost so far?
Acc. to Oryx which is famous to exaggerate thing it is about 11 su-30sm and 13 su-34.

More like 3 or 4 su-30 and some 5 su-34.

They didn't lost a huge amount but they clearly can't use them effectively.

The drone usage is really bad. They should be hunting ukrainian armored vehicles on the front everyday but they prefere to use them to hit the roof of a random building in Odessa with little to no damage to ukrainian army.

Meanwhile they use kalibr on the front where krasnopol can do the work.

Isos wrote:

Ned86 wrote:

limb wrote:
Exactly. Im extremely frustrated that in this war, theyre not using Su-24M2s as much, since theyre more expendable.  Also no targeting pods at all for su-30s.

I have to agree with you. 
I don't get what is the point of risking to loose a fighter like Su-30sm or Su-34 when you can use artillery or kamikaze drone to hit infantry groups or armored vehicles. 
Maybe speed + surprise factor...

Btw, any thoughts how many Su-30 and Su-34 were lost so far?
Acc. to Oryx which is famous to exaggerate thing it is about 11 su-30sm and 13 su-34.

More like 3 or 4 su-30 and some 5 su-34.

They didn't lost a huge amount but they clearly can't use them effectively.

The drone usage is really bad. They should be hunting ukrainian armored vehicles on the front everyday but they prefere to use them to hit the roof of a random building in Odessa with little to no damage to ukrainian army.

Meanwhile they use kalibr on the front where krasnopol can do the work.

They don't use kalibr on the front. They *allegedly* use it to bomb ukrainian army barracks and training grounds, with *alleged* very heavy losses to the ukrainian troops. However, these "heavy losses" are clearly exagerrated, since ukraine could pull 50000 troops to take izyum out of its ass while still having reserves to spare and reinforcing artemovsk with multiple BTGs every day, and on top of it successfully entrenching themslves on the other side opf seversky donets.

How is it 5 Su-34s destroyed? I only saw 2 pics of them being downed in march, and one friendly fire incident in june, plus this last one with a burning engine. I count up to 4. Keep in mind ukrainians take pics of russian aircraft falling down in the air, and then take a pic of the wreckage, and claim that they were different aircraft.

I agree with you about drones. They should be used to lure ukrainian SAMs to fire at them, allowing a second wave of drones to destroy them, clearing the way for russian strike aircraft at high altitude to bomb targets behind enemy lines.

Also, they should hunt long raneg MLRSs. The ukrainians still somehow keep firing hundreds of rockets from their smerch version, the olkha, per day, despite supposedly running out of stocks.

limb wrote:

Regarding Su-30SM: 1-2 destroyed in march, possibly 1-2 destroyed after. Up to 12 Su-30s destroyed in Saki airbase in august.  Total: up to 4 Su-30SM, up to 12 Su-30M2 of the navy.

Su-35: 1-2 destroyed in march, 1 destroyed by friendly fire in july. Total: Up to 3.

This is inexcusable tho. Russia can only produce like 4-5 Su-34s and 2-3 Su-35s per year due to sanctions and export orders. They need a larger airfleet to cover more ground.

I think that in Saki at most 4 SU-30 were destroyed...in most pessimistic scenario.

Regarding production, Russia can easily produce 10+ su-34, Su-30sm and Su-35.

Ned86 wrote:
I have to agree with you. 
I don't get what is the point of risking to loose a fighter like Su-30sm or Su-34 when you can use artillery or kamikaze drone to hit infantry groups or armored vehicles. 
Maybe speed + surprise factor...

Btw, any thoughts how many Su-30 and Su-34 were lost so far?
Acc. to Oryx which is famous to exaggerate thing it is about 11 su-30sm and 13 su-34.

We are now seeing the suicide drones strike with impunity in places like Odessa. This could indicate a complete lack of AA systems in many urban areas away from the frontlines. Russia should continue to strike infrastructure with these drones non stop. This will cause the Ukranians to withdraw their AA again from the fronts and hopefully expose them. At any rate, it was no secret that the Ukranian troops gathered AA systems near the frontline, as a response to these rather effective low altitude bombing runs (see video's from Kherson front to see how effective they can be). It was a matter of time untill they scored some hits. Now Russia is likely to adjust its tactics again

This is what russian aircraft with the SVP-24, for all its high technology, should easily do if they use dumb bombs, in order to evade SAMs. instead we see Su-34s flying right on top of their target like its 1943.

Come on, toss bombing is 1950s tactics possible with 1960s CCRP technology. The fact that they're firing rockets in parabolic trajectories, but do this WW2 style low level bombing shows something is either seriously wrong with russian targeting technology, or the potbelly dinosaurs in the air force command have even worse retardation than I thought.

ucmvulcan wrote:
Hopefully 300,000 new troops will shift the balance of power back in Russia's favor.  

What are you morons talking about?

The slaughter at the border of the Nikolaev/Kherson regions continues.
The meat grinder in the western part of the Donetsk region continues.
But you concentrate on a tiny stretch of the frontline because other idiots on Twitter and Telegram tell you so.

A view from the other side for the pessimists around here. Quotes for you

This is the strategic reality Kiev and the US faces, the Russian military machine with its industrial scale production back end.

First pair

Losses of Ukraine during the special operation - hundreds of thousands of people. Former Deputy Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine Serhiy Krivonos admitted the monstrous number of victims of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

Retired General of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Serhiy Krivonos announced on a live broadcast that Ukraine is suffering monstrous losses, numbering in the hundreds of thousands.

Second, my highlight

The US warehouses are empty. The Russian defense industry works 24/7, and they know how to produce equipment" — General of the SSO (Spec Forces) of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

The deputy commander and creator of the SSO of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, General Krivonos, on the air on the YouTube channel "Politeka", spoke about the deplorable prospects of Ukraine on the example of a decrease in arms supplies from the West and the growing production rates in Russia.

“They are not only deconserving equipment, but they have just launched production, their Russian defense industry is in 24/7 mode, and they know how to produce equipment. They have production, and they did not sell it, as we use to".

"Let's stop believing in fairy tales and think that somewhere the Americans have something hidden in their vaults. What the Americans had was designed to fulfill the tasks for their armed forces and what they give is not so much," Krivonos commented on the supply of Western weapons.

https://t.me/CyberspecNews/6703

Podlodka77 wrote:
ALAMO, I take my hat off to you because I see that you are the most active against the fifth columnists - You and Garry..
The whining about the plane was active tonight, as far as I can see. People don't seem to know that KNAAZ produces Su-35S and Su-57, NAPO Su-34M and IRKUT Su-30SM2.
I just wonder if those fools realize that with the partial mobilization, Russia raised the "ladder to a higher level" and thus made it clear (first of all to the West) that it is ready to go further than that.

No way !
An army of field marshalls second to the Guderian, Rommel, and Kutuzov only realized that planes can be shot down, when there is a war.
No kidding !