Russian population and demographics #2

@Fb
I believe you are going down a weird rabbit hole.

@Alfa Nothing weird about it, Western oligarchs are largely anti-religion, anti-family, anti-human and seek to subjugate their own (and everyone else's) populace in ways that would make the CCP blush. They've invested billions of dollars over the years learning to control and manipulate people via information warfare with the disastrous results speaking for itself in the US & Ukraine, for instance. Their attitude, beliefs and deeds are truly Satanic.

https://www.rt.com/russia/576586-kremlin-difficult-demographic-situation/


I have warned of this for a while and been rubbished. Good to see the Kremlin is aware. But even a necessary war is not helpful. Most people want to live their lives. Even the most patriotic people do not want to live indefinitely in a nation at war. And with endless conflict. Russia needs to get this done and focus on BRICS and the new economic future of Russia. Raising the quality of life for the average Russian is just as existential as the war.

I have a feeling a lot of available info about Russian demographics from English sources is highly contaminated with NATO propaganda.

For example, from 2010 to 2022, the average life expectancy for Russian men rose only by four years, from 63 yrs old in 2010 to 67 in 2022. And in some data, Ukraine even has a higher life expectancy

The average lifespan was over 72 years before 2022.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/RUS/russia/life-expectancy

Russian life expectancy is determined by the metabolic syndrome. In the 1990s people consumed carbohydrate laden food because meat was too
expensive. This has cumulative damage even if the diet improved in the last 20 years. As in the west, people think that consuming carbs and sugars
is OK when it is actually metabolic poison. Russians consume a lot of industrial seed oils like people around the world including the EU, Japan and
the USA. Linoleic acid, the main component of industrial seed oils drives insulin resistance and LDL oxidation leading to atherosclerotic plaque growth.
It is a mitochondrial poison that also damages mitochondrial DNA which makes it a contributor to cancer as well.

High alcohol consumption is involved in metabolic syndrome as well since alcohol is a liver poison and also contributes to insulin resistance. But
even if everyone stopped consuming alcohol, metabolic syndrome would not disappear since it is driven by the type of food consumed. Rates of
alcohol consumption have declined substantially in Russia in the last 20+ years but this is not enough to extend the lifespan by a large amount.

Racism in the US is amplified by the history of slavery and the politics around it. I have read a credible explanation comparing Brazil with the USA, that
in the USA the anti-slavery movement created a pro-slavery reaction (natural for politics) that entailed justifications of slavery that
did not occur in Brazil. So Jim Crow, etc, are the face of this investment in defaming people of African origin to justify their enslavement
and keep them on the "plantation" after the US civil war. Blacks account for about 15% of the US population and are "ghetto-ized" which
generates social problems such as crime. This ghetto trap is the legacy of slavery and the brazen attempt to maintain it in a new form
after the civil war. The crime and economic disparity helps to keep the racism alive.

(There is an actual physical separation of blacks and whites in the USA that does not occur in Canada, for example south Boston).

By contrast, in Russia blacks are a tiny minority who were never slaves and have only moved there in the last few decades (I am not going
to claim only the this period, but there would have been almost none in the 1800s). There are exceptions such as the Ethiopian black
ancestor of Pushkin. So Russia does not have the legacy, institutional-cultural racism like the US. But Russia has its own variant which
is common to European whites and that is against "darkies" (including people from the Caucuses). In my experience this does not amplify
into the sort of hostility that occurs in the USA for numerous reasons. The USSR was anti-racist and this was a real positive contribution
to Russian culture.

This is a broad view from outside the individual experience of blacks in Russia and it is possible for some of them to have experienced more
extreme treatment. There is a fringe of neo-Nazi, NATzO lovers in Russia. Navalny was trying to pander to these "ethnic nationalists"
at one stage.

I would add that there is more and more voices against uncontrollable inflow of immigrants from Central Asia, especially, Tajikistan. Majority of them speak very bad Russian or don't speak any at all and are grouping themselves into enclosed communities. Even bigger problem is that many got Russian passport. Even if they were previously protected by construction lobby, last few months there were raids in their communities and groups due to rising criminality and extremism. Basic problem is still unanswered though, that is uncontrollable naturalization of said group. Better mechanism would be to just give them unlimited residency, that can be easily revoked if they turn to be troublemakers.

flamming_python wrote:
Most of them speak Russian acceptably. There are some places in the country with a higher concentration of Central Asian migrants such as that satellite city of Moscow with a huge immigration center but generally speaking they spread themselves out; at least those that come as families do - as just like for everyone else, work can be anywhere, affordable accommodation can be anywhere, school and kindergarten places for their kids can be anywhere and so you will look all over the city or the country for the best conditions. Naturally there are more migrants in the cheaper suburbs, while the warehouse districts is where you'll find a lot of them working and therefore living too. In my housing complex although it's not the cheapest place - there are a couple Uzbek/Tajik families too. And there are a lot more in nearby housing, together with Chechens and some other visible minorites. But on the whole most of the population is Russian. There is no auto-segregation or anything in the area that I live, everyone shares the same playgrounds, stores, sports facilities and whatever.
Don't believe everything you read.

I am talking about people from Tajikistan exclusively. I agree that percentage wise, much more Uzbeks and people from Kyrgyzstan will speak Russian. Last year, almost 500 citizens of Tajikistan received Russian passports daily. Even if someone is pushing to bring them over, it is absolutely unnecessary to hand them passports so fast.
As for other part of your message, i don't believe what people say, but raids by Moscow police of Tajikistan illegal mosques, restaurants and other parlors are recorded on video. Tajikistanis killed mobilized people on one of the training grounds, recently one Tajikistani, with Russian passport, killed soldier on leave ( because he was taking part in SMO) in Chelyabinsk, i believe, etc.
Not to forget that Tajikistan is the worst shithole in Central Asia, borders with Afghanistan, that cleansed Slavic population at the beginning of the '90s during civil war and has biggest problem with islamic terrorists and fundamentalists of all neighboring countries.

Forgot to add this. Even though it reads as a comedy. Last sentence is alarming, imo. Let's not forget that population of Tajikistan is under 10 million.

https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/6159618

Tajikistan sent inspections to Russia to check the living conditions of migrants
Tajik authorities have sent inspections to Moscow, St. Petersburg, Yekaterinburg, Novosibirsk and Ufa to check the living conditions of migrant workers. This was reported by the Ministry of Labor, Migration and Employment of Tajikistan.

"On behalf of the Government of Tajikistan, working groups were organized to get acquainted with the living conditions of labor migrants in Russia and conduct explanatory work among them... Five groups were organized, they were sent to Moscow, St. Petersburg, Yekaterinburg, Ufa and Novosibirsk, " the Ministry of Labor of Tajikistan said in a Facebook post (owned by Meta, recognized as extremist and banned in the Russian Federation).

The inspection teams included representatives of ministries. The Ministry of Labor of Tajikistan noted that the process of labor migration is under the special control of President Emomali Rahmon, "practical measures are being taken to regulate it, as well as to protect the rights and interests of citizens" of Tajikistan.

According to the Russian Interior Ministry, the number of Tajik citizens who received Russian passports increased by 60% in 2022. According to Federal Security Service statistics, 516,000 Tajik citizens entered Russia in the first quarter of 2023, and 548,000 in the second quarter.

flamming_python wrote:

It's a bit hard to know as there are many Uzbeks from Tajikistan and many Tajiks from Uzbekistan. Generally I group them together as its easier.

Uzbeks are less than 10% of population of Tajikistan. Majority of Tajikistan citizens that come are ethnic Tajiks. But, that is not that important.

That's 2 cases, out of how many Tajiks in Russia?

I could give you more examples, but that was not the point, i tried to make. Did you hear of any other ethnic group doing similar things?

There was a civil war in Tajikistan in the 90s between the Islamists and the secularists. Everyone who had a better place to be than in a warzone left. The secularists won and Tajikistan today while still being a conservative Islamic society particularly in the rural areas, has no Sharia law bullshit or anything like that whatsoever. Comparing it to Taliban-controlled Afghanistan over the border is like comparing night and day

You're proving my point. Fundamentalists were so powerful in Tajikistan that they tried to take the power in the country. Not only that, they had 10s of thousand of fighters under arms. Are you trying to imply that these people were all killed in the '90s or that they vanished into thin air.  Also, i never compared Afghanistan to Tajikistan. I just said that they share the border. You're a smart guy. Come to the conclusions yourself.

There is a YouTube channel run by a deaf Tajik girl I came across some time ago. Check it out if you're interested how such families live in Russia, at least those who've been in the country for a long time

I am sure that there are some Phd candidates on studies in Russia, as well, but average is pretty abysmal. Also, i'm not against allowing them to come, just don't hand them passports like candies. Regulate their status, so they can work legally and be part of the system, but don't give them citizenship that easy.
Otherwise, there will be cases, like recent one from Yekaterinburg, where 3 Tajiks (fresh Russian citizens) murdered a Russian and they had to provide them with translators for court hearing.

Another proof that system is broken:

https://www.interfax-russia.ru/moscow/news/rossiyskoe-grazhdanstvo-v-pervom-kvartale-2023-goda-poluchili-svyshe-106-tys-inostrancev-pochti-polovina-iz-nih-urozhency-tadzhikistana

More than 106 thousand foreigners received Russian citizenship in the first quarter of 2023, almost half of them are natives of Tajikistan
44,8 thousand passport for Tajiks against only 22 thousand for Ukrainians in the middle of campaign of giving citizenship to population of "new regions"
I understand the logic of lobbyists. Tajiks work for third of the money. Is this in the best interest of the country is another question.

flamming_python wrote:
You talk about Tajiks all the time on this thread but get your reading list from the same Russian nationalist scoundrels at every turn. Much more so than with Tajiks, I have a problem with these people instead.

Save me the diatribes. You're implying something that you took out of your ass. All links i posted today here are from well established Russian media houses.

I can understand the desire to want to keep yourself as an ethnic or religious majority in your own country, that's natural - but instead of say, rearing and raising 4 kids and taking them to church services - what you do instead is complain and then outright manipulate facts to make these immigrants seem like a pack of hyenas. I've even seen these people issue demands for Muslim peoples in Russia to have less kids. The Muslims are not the ones with the problem. Why is it that these people are saying that Chechens, Dagestanis, Uzbeks, etc.. should have less kids, instead of saying that Russians should have more?

Yet, you didn't see me mention any of the aforementioned nations, neither i made any derisive comments about islam or Muslims. Certainly, didn't even mention number of children in any of my posts.

These fascist idiots are a Trojan horse. They are not the types who would have large families and contribute to the solution of the Russian demographic problem, if anything they more often follow the same neo-pagan, LGBT, Satanist shit we see in the Ukraine. Western values in other words.
While at the same time undertaking all efforts to inflate internal tensions in Russia, even when objectively, our problems in this regard are fairly minor compared to Europe's. See the problem here?

You're talking to yourself FP. You got some preconceived picture in your head about my ulterior motives and whatnot, that you actually don't even bother to address what i wrote in previous messages.

To sum it up:
Tajikistan is a failed country, certainly worst among stans (not including Turkmenistan, as that country is almost run as a reservation) which is a feat. It's been held in place with help of Russian base, cash grants and loans (mostly from Russia) and  remittances from Russia, as well (over 50% of GDP consists of remittances). With extensive history of islamic fundamentalism and thousands of them going to fight in Afghanistan after the end of civil war.
It would be smart to hedge risks and not gift these people passports like there's no tomorrow and instead allow them to work legally and be part of society. Ones that are worth will end up with passports anyway.

To those who think that the population of Russia is in freefall. Have a look at the statistics:

Population of Russia: number, dynamics, statistics

08/12/2023

The total population of Russia as of January 1, 2023 is  146,447,424  people according to [1-Rosstat] - dated 08/01/2023 "Population of the Russian Federation by municipalities as of January 1, 2023". (Excluding statistical information on the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR), Luhansk People's Republic (LPR), Zaporozhye and Kherson regions).
The total population of Russia as of January 1, 2022 is  145,557,576  people according to [1-Rosstat] - dated April 25, 2021 "Estimation of the resident population as of January 1, 2022 and on average for 2021".

Year  Population
2023  146 447 424
2022  145 557 576
2021  146 171 015
2020  146 748 590
2015  146 267 288
2010  142 856 536
2000  146 890 128
1990  147 665 081
1980  138 126 600

Source: https://www.statdata.ru/russia