flamming_python Fri Nov 04, 2022 8:55 pm
limb wrote:The ukrainians repaired and put their captured T-90M in service. It was left most likely by a guards division, and it shows that there was no sabotage
Is there a doctrinal reason that when russians abandon a tank, they don't sabotage it or scuttle it any any way, shape or form? I wonder if the russian army discussed giving russian tankers some explosives to just set inside. Does it even go through their mind that they should throw a grenade inside(Russian tankers have always been given grenades AFAIK) or light a fire? Even if the ukrainians are in hot pursuit it would only take a few seconds. Also if a tank is isolated, its the fault of commander of the unit by extension for not having proper supply and scuttling means.
Were the crewmen given this tank too stupid or too cowardly to be tankers? This kind of reminds me of T-90A tanks being given to random syrian NDF militias, rather than elite units like the tiger forces(which only use T-55s) who due to stupidity abandoned one or two.
This connects to how Lapin's group, using unupgraded T-72Bs and BMP-1s abandoned less vehicles than the 4th and 1st tank armies around kharkov. yet Lapin was criticized sharply , and O group only now is modern kit en masse.
A russian commenter mentioned if a guards unit abandons above a certain number of vehicles in working order, they should have their guards title removed. These units cant be riding off of the prestige of their members 80 years ago. Im inclined to agree.
https://t.me/historywarweaponmain/66967
There is no reason other than a lack of training and instructions about doing so. It's not hard to disable a tank when you have access to the ammo or fuel compartment. A long cloth soaked in a little diesel at a minimum together with a lighter. Or even better a small timed explosive charge can be supplied to crews who could plant it next to the propellant on their way out
This is a serious oversight. Thanks to which NATO has all the information about the T-90M and T-80BVM, T-72B3M that it could ever want. And can use their technology in their own designs for reactive armour, ATGMs, etc..
The only thing worse would be if they got their hands on a T-14 armed with the Afghanit APS.
And BTW I fully support abandoning vehicles if needed to preserve crew lives or to maintain the schedule of the advancing column. It's just there is not excuse when it comes to handing them over to the enemy intact. Or failing to evacuate them if possible. There were many vehicles during the initial advances towards Kiev, Sumy, Chernigov which were simply left by the side of the road and no BREM vehicle or tank transport ever retrieved them - or at least not before hostile villagers or saboteurs damaged or set fire to them themselves.
Quite a callous attitude towards military equipment and military-industrial secrecy. Hope it's rectified.
Last edited by flamming_python on Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:01 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Explosions in the Dnepropetrovsk region. Geran hits targets
Big_Gazza
The new package of US military military assistance to Ukraine in the amount of $400 million contains 250 M1117 armored personnel carriers, 40 armored boats, 1.1 thousand Phoenix Ghost drones, MIM-23 Hawk air defense systems and 45 T-72 tanks bought from the Czech Republic - Pentagon.
