Russian special military operation in Ukraine #31

flamming_python wrote:

Azi wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Where is this great defeat?

Losing territory is a DEFEAT!

Tell that to Kutuzov.

Do relax and quite being yet another incoming panic-monger who appears but once per full tide. It's a battle and not only will the lines go to and fro as per tactical expediency, but most of what you hear about it will either be inaccurate or disinfo for a little while yet

Azi wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Aaaaand here come the doomers

Where do you live in Russia? Maybe you will be part of Ukraine soon Enjoy!!!

Kherson is a nothingburger I know I know...same like Moscow and every other region of Russia!

flamming_python wrote:Time for all of them to have a think.
Because the West is losing interest in the war, steadily. So what do they count on? Years more of warfare?
Or will somebody step up that is ready to publicly declare the need to hold talks without preconditions and then implement the provisions of whatever deal is signed?

Kiev has said that Denis Kireev, a secret agent on a mission from Ukraine’s Defense Ministry, has died. Earlier reports claimed that a man with the same name was killed by Ukrainian secret services as a suspected traitor.

Ukraine’s Chief Directorate of Intelligence said on Saturday that Kireev was among three agents killed in the line of duty. “They have died, protecting Ukraine,” the military intelligence agency wrote on social media, without elaborating.

News of Kireev’s death has caused some confusion after Ukrainian media initially reported that the country’s own domestic security service, the SBU, strongly believed Kireev was a spy and had killed him during an apparent arrest attempt.

Ukrayinska Pravda newspaper quoted sources as saying that SBU agents had “clear” evidence of high treason and had tapped Kireev’s phone. However, other reports claimed that the SBU was not involved in the man’s death, and that someone wanted to frame the agency. The SBU has not commented on the matter. 

limb wrote:
Rising water levels shouldnt matter. Its just a river. Kherson is 327000 city with god knows how many opportunities to fortify. Russia is leaving it without a fight. Meanwhile Ukraine is still successfully defending Bakhmut, a 72000 pop cuty for 5 months now.

Hole wrote:This tells me that the winter offensive will come from the North. 

Azi wrote:If it's not a trap, then the war is already lost! Possibly Putin is now negotiating a disadvantageous peace treaty. But time works AGAINST Russia and not for Russia! Russia is under sanctions while NATO continues to pour endless arms and money into Ukraine. Ukraine has enough cannon fodder for years. And it doesn't give a **** how many soldiers Ukraine loses...victory is victory and defeat is defeat. Next year Ukraine will get more air defense systems, maybe ATACMS and yes the HIMARS were a game changer...maybe additional good western battletanks!

Lapain wrote:My issue is really how these territorial retreats will affect the overall morale of the troops on the ground, seeing how fast they can decide to cancel any of these costly gains, what is the point of fighting on for seemingly low value swathes of area?

flamming_python wrote:

Azi wrote:If it's not a trap, then the war is already lost! Possibly Putin is now negotiating a disadvantageous peace treaty. But time works AGAINST Russia and not for Russia! Russia is under sanctions while NATO continues to pour endless arms and money into Ukraine. Ukraine has enough cannon fodder for years. And it doesn't give a **** how many soldiers Ukraine loses...victory is victory and defeat is defeat. Next year Ukraine will get more air defense systems, maybe ATACMS and yes the HIMARS were a game changer...maybe additional good western battletanks!

No-one's negotiating a disadvantageous peace treaty

It's easy to disprove

Let's say that Russia is indeed prepared to accept the humiliation of an apparent public defeat in return for some sort of peace agreement; despite there being no military, international, or economic urgency that would coerce it into doing so in such a manner.
It regardless wouldn't make much sense. If there is a deal so then make it public. And have the Russians and Ukrainians announce it. Otherwise no-one is even obliged to such a deal, which will make it pointless for the Russians to agree to in the first place.
While if leaving the city is part of the preliminary process for a deal - then it's too stupid a step to be true. What will prevent the Ukrainians from going back on their word in this case once they've secured the city? And if such a deal falls through, then Russia will have to indeed expend a lot of lives and effort to take the city back. Else there is a now a threat to the Crimea.

And that's not even to talk about the fact that it's now officially Russian territory.

By the facts.

1. From a military point of view, this is the most serious purely military defeat of the Russian Federation since 1991. In our case, this is already the 3rd serious military defeat after Balakleya and Krasny Liman. There are a number of issues related to the safety of the Kakhovskaya HPP after the withdrawal, the future of the Antonovsky Bridge and the North Crimean Canal, the evacuation of military equipment to the left bank, etc. etc.

2. The described reasons for the withdrawal of troops to the left bank are the result of problems that have taken place since the beginning of summer and, for various reasons, have not been eliminated. They stem from the failure to capture Nikolaev at the very beginning of the NWO, when the city was in a semi-encirclement, but due to various mistakes it was never taken.

3. Now the stake is obviously being placed on increasing the total strength of the grouping and releasing part of the forces operating on the right bank in the interests of offensive operations, which can be expected in late November-early December. If any operational successes are achieved there, of course, they will justify the withdrawal from Kherson. But it is worth remembering that not only we "release" troops from the right bank, but also the enemy.

4. It is obvious that the surrender of the regional center of the Russian Federation will have tangible consequences for the public consciousness and the enemy will certainly use it. In the absence of foreseeable success with the occupation of large settlements and advancement during the winter offensive, a series of military failures will accumulate much more serious internal discontent than sanctions.

5. Of course, there is also a version about some kind of agreement with the Americans "ala Minsk-3", but so far there are no concrete actions on the part of the United States that would indicate this. So far, there are much more prerequisites for the continuation of intense hostilities.

6. Any offensive actions in the direction of Odessa and Nikolaev in the foreseeable future can be forgotten at this stage.

7. The NWO obviously continues, there is no refusal from the stated goals of the NWO. Looking forward to the winter season.

All in all, a gloomy day. It has to be experienced. The scar on the heart will remain.

https://t.me/boris_rozhin/69797

flamming_python wrote:I'm not even going to argue with the doomer crowd, you guys can go at it unchallenged and take everyone's statements at face value.

We'll see what really happens in due course.

zepia wrote:
They didn't say they will withdraw from the whole Kherson region.
They said they will withdraw to defense line at Dnieper River i.e. the east bank.
Isn't that what we already suspected?

Azi wrote:

Ultimately, all of this can cost Putin his head! It should also not be forgotten that the deputy head of the Kherson region died in an "accident" today. Why does the Russian secret service kill honest and brave Russians? They should better kill Ukronazis. Russians may soon be tired of Putin's geopolitical games?!

limb wrote:Leaving the right bank of the dieprr didnt make sense.

Azi wrote:

zepia wrote:
They didn't say they will withdraw from the whole Kherson region.
They said they will withdraw to defense line at Dnieper River i.e. the east bank.
Isn't that what we already suspected?

This means that an attack on Odessa, Nikolaev and Krivoy Rog is out of the question in the near future. In addition, Crimea is losing water supply and Ukraine has a stepping stone to infiltrate and attack the southern part of Kherson and thus Crimea as well.