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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:26 pm

    The problem the Ukies have is it is very difficult to fall back, OK retreat, in good order unless moving through an already manned defensive line. Suddenly the momentum builds up and 100m becomes 1000m. Azov execution lines have to fall back faster.

    But it looks like they have 'fortress' like positions a bit further back. Hence the 'don't be too optimistic' warnings.

    GEROMAN -- time will tell - 👀 --
    @GeromanAT
    ·
    3h
    it is reported that the latest Wagner video is from here
    ->
    (that would be a massive break through indeed)

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 28 Flz2JPCXEBA0XCy?format=jpg&name=small



    GEROMAN -- time will tell - 👀 --
    @GeromanAT
    ·
    7h
    the yellow part is indeed a fortress - with tunnels (Salt Mines) etc - so I guess RF will cut them off there and dry them out like we saw in "Azov Stal" - till they have to surrender (or die)

    Nicolas de Saint-Cheron
    @NikolaA93466184
    ·
    7h
    Replying to @GeromanAT
    May be they mean tnis part of the town (red). The question is what is the situation with this part of Soledar (yellow). It looks like a fortres with these densely placed tall concrete buildings.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 28 FlzFVKeWIAMlDTz?format=jpg&name=small


    Last edited by JohninMK on Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  caveat emptor Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:28 pm

    I believe that Russian army should contract Wagner instructors to update infantry training, after the war.

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    Post  mnztr Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:46 pm

    If I was Russian I'd want a quick end to all this and cruel blows to Ulraine would not upset me that much at this point. I think Russia needs to bust some heads. Those "allies supposedly supporting them need to be more open in this. Russia cannot be alone The coups and color revolutions and agreements that were all lies by neocons, neolibs and centrists have been what proved to anyone with a brain that Russia is in the right. wrote:

    Everyone wants this to end. But the problem is, the cost of a quick end in blood may be very high, and it seems Russia will not send its mobilized troops in until they are fully trained and equipped. Also the winter has not yet fully arrived.

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    Post  littlerabbit Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:56 pm

    Apparently, ukrowehrmacht is retreating from Podgorodnoe. Very Happy   At first, they thought it was the retreat from Krasnaya Gora, but geolocation affirmed the other suburb/village. Things are finally moving faster.  Cool


    https://twitter.com/WarMonitors/status/1611481488889090048

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    Post  Podlodka77 Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:02 am

    Merry Christmas to you Christian brothers.
    Notice to Alamo; Bro, I bought Alfa again - GIULIA..
    Cars, just like women, should be chosen with the heart... santa





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    Post  JohninMK Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:08 am



    From the Drive
    We got a little more clarity Friday afternoon on which version of the Bradley the U.S. will provide Ukraine.

    It’s the M2A2-ODS version, Air Force Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder, the Pentagon’s top spokesman, told The War Zone Friday afternoon.
    That variant, an upgrade from the M2A2, was introduced to address some of the deficiencies that were found during Operation Desert Storm (ODS), from which it gets its ODS designation.


    From https://militaryleak.com/2022/01/06/croatian-army-to-buy-bradley-m2a2-operation-desert-storm-ods-armored-fighting-vehicles/

    The M2 Bradley IFV is an American infantry fighting vehicle that is a member of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle family. It is manufactured by BAE Systems Land & Armaments, which was formerly United Defense. The Bradley IFV was developed largely in response to the amphibious Soviet BMP family of infantry fighting vehicles, and to serve as both an Armored personnel carrier (APC), and a tank-killer. The M2A2 Bradley was introduced in the U.S. Army in 1988. It is an improved version of the standard vehicle Bradley M2A1. After Operation Desert Storm (First Gulf War in 1991), the M2A2 was upgraded again with the addition of an eye-safe carbon dioxide laser rangefinder, global positioning system, combat identification system, and thermal viewer for the driver. The 1,423 M2A2 Bradleys brought up to this standard were referred to as M2A2 ODS (Operation Desert Storm).

    The M2A2 ODS emerged as part of a two-phased M2A2 modernization plan designed to implement lessons learned from over ten years of mechanized Infantry experience and to correct deficiencies noted during Operation Desert Storm. The addition of PGS/POSNAV enhances the M2A2 ODS’ ability to maneuver with the rest of the combined arms team. Crew survivability is also enhanced with the integration of Battlefield Combat Identification System and a Missile Countermeasure device. The M2A2 Bradley is armed with an ATK Gun Systems Company M242 25 mm Bushmaster Chain Gun with a 7.62 mm M240C machine gun mounted coaxially to the right of the main armament. The Javelin anti-tank missile replaced the earlier Dragon in the M2A2 restow, and five TOWs or three TOWs and two Javelins could be carried.
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    Post  Erk Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:30 am

    PapaDragon wrote:

    It's not just about Ukraine exploiting the opening Russia gives it, it's also about devastating effect this idiocy has on morale of Russian troops


    Very shallow thinking.
    There are over 70million Christians in Russia, that's half the population.

    The break allows Ukraine to push in more troops to the meat grinder.

    More importantly, it demonstrates clearly to Russian allies, when they read the negative Western response to the ceasefire offer, that Russian's are the good guys, and the West/Ukraine are spawn of Satan.

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    Post  PhSt Sat Jan 07, 2023 1:42 am

    Perhaps the ceasefire announcement is just a ruse to confuse the NATzO NAZI decision makers jocolor

    As long as the NAZI Pukrainian Cannon fodders are exterminated I'm content attack
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    Post  GarryB Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:25 am

    Most of them don't care about the war or are on Russia's side anyway

    Most of those on the side of Russia are because their leadership seem more human than western leadership... offering a truce is human...

    During the first world war there were plenty of christmas truces and even games of soccer between enemies... WWII was a different war... both were brutal and bloody but WWII was less of a stalemate... less frustrating... one side dominated initially and was then overcome by production and numbers...

    regarding the chrisimas ceasefire, does that apply ony to christians? What about muslims, slavic pagans, buddhists, finnic pagans, communist atheists, etc?

    Applies to anyone willing to honour it... the orcs leadership have already said they wont.

    And the western countries supporting them have taken the opportunity to announce more weapons they are prepared to supply to add to Ukraines suffering.

    It's not just about Ukraine exploiting the opening Russia gives it, it's also about devastating effect this idiocy has on morale of Russian troops

    When you are hole beef on the edge of the plate looking at the meat grinder other bits of beef have gone through and you hear from the butcher he is prepared to stop operating the meat grinder for a day or two but the organisation supplying the meat just keeps pushing you in... perhaps it is a couple of days to think about your situation... and your available choices.

    Ukrainians have confirmed that Iranian drones are using lots of Western technologies. What goes around comes around.

    The west claims ownership of everything... most of these so called western technologies will be made in Japan or Taiwan or China and sold on the international market...

    Won't the AIM-7 have abysmal range when deployed like that? It's meant to be launched at altitude, with significant initial velocity for free.

    I mean, compare with the Kub in the middle, there is a reason it's that fat and has ramjet cruise engines.

    Or is there some add-on booster fitted to them?

    It wont have the same range as the air launched model but it is a standard SAM used on US Navy ships as the ESSM.

    So wanna hear something funny? Shogu was on the news saying "Despite the fact the Russian military observed the ceasefire we where attacked"

    The same truce Ukraine openly say "No" to...


    Let that sink in

    When you are fighting scum you have to give them a chance to be civilised, but when they prove they are scum and not interested in peace or the lives of their people and all that matters is grafting money and equipment from the west then it makes it easier morally to continue killing them in enormous numbers like they have been.

    Since the outbreak of hostilities in Ukraine, 951 Bundeswehr servicemen have filed reports for dismissal from the ranks of the armed forces due to unwillingness to participate in hostilities.

    Not really new.... I remember during Desert Storm there was a US ship that they liked to show off and talk about because it had a high number of women in the crew which was showing how modern the US Navy is in terms of gender etc etc... when the ship was assigned to move to the middle east for the conflict most of the women suddenly got pregnant and the ships orders were cancelled because they didn't have enough trained crew to operate her on her upcoming mission.

    Obviously the ship got the nickname "the love boat" after a TV series of the time...

    Reaction of nationalist Russian circles, which are also most religious, says it all and they are completely against it. I don't see the point in this.

    The Vatican approved it, so Kiev saying no will have some effects in the west... even if they are not enough to make a huge difference... every little victory counts...

    If I was Russian I'd want a quick end to all this and cruel blows to Ulraine would not upset me that much at this point. I think Russia needs to bust some heads. Those "allies supposedly supporting them need to be more open in this. Russia cannot be alone

    Stretching it out over time costs the west money both directly in money donated to the criminals in Kiev, but also losses of money due to sanctions on Russia and Russian energy and isolation of the west from Russia...

    Russia was too connected to the west... all their energy sales were shipped by western ships insured by western companies, the sales brokered by western companies, and most international organisations like SWIFT and WADA etc are too western dominated.... these sanctions are breaking those monopolies and creating alternatives which is a necessary prerequisite for real future independence for any country from the west... a true multipolar future...

    Without this conflict it never would have happened... talks about dropping the US dollar and alternatives to SWIFT would remain just talk and never really happen because just bypassing sanctions means the west can pretend to be anti Russian while still making good money from its business with other countries and the west.

    That twitter guy Julian is pro ukrainian but at least he knows when to recognize defeat. Compare to the rest of the ukro flag in name group of people on twitter he is a reliable source of informations.

    Funny when their fanboys give him shit for stating the obvious instead of keeping to the party line of western propaganda... deny deny deny...

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    Post  Backman Sat Jan 07, 2023 8:26 am

    How are these infantry fighting vehicles going to enter Ukraine? By rail from Poland? Russia should follow this trash as it comes in and blow it away

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    Post  Regular Sat Jan 07, 2023 8:46 am

    If they didn’t do it in 10 months, then it won’t happen now as well.

    I am interesting to see them in use. How much you want to bet that Ukrainians use them like BMP-1 or 2s and will ride Marders and Bradleys on top instead of inside. Especially new mod bradleys, hardly any room in them
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    Post  Regular Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:04 am

    I honestly hope Ukraine will get at least 200+ Leopard 2a+ from Denmark, Finland and Germany. Knowing that Russian T-90 tanks are close to the front in would solve discussions what tank performs better. (Maybe finally we will see reverse gears being used Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 28 1f600 ) The problem is- Ukrainians will be all green compared to experienced Russian crews and this itself could be decisive factor in hupothetical tank on tank battle (that will probably won’t happen)

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:01 am

    Ukraine isn't getting new mod Bradleys, and the risk Russia would capture one make it too risky, I suspect these are old Bradley M2's that have suffered lots of wear and tier. How they will do In Ukraine? I imagine provided the Ukies don't use them like fools, they will do okay. That is until ATGMs and what not find them but that goes any tank these days, if the missile hits unless you lucky as **** the tank is down, you need to keep the missiles from hitting.

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    Post  ALAMO Sat Jan 07, 2023 10:29 am

    Post  caveat emptor Yesterday at 11:28 pm

    I believe that Russian army should contract Wagner instructors to update infantry training, after the war.


    But I hope you DO realize the fact those instructors are ex-Russian army? scratch

    Funny when their fanboys give him shit for stating the obvious instead of keeping to the party line of western propaganda... deny deny deny...

    Yeah, he was whining like a little pussy for negative twitter scores a while ago when he showed some Ukro being fuked up hard Laughing

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    Post  Regular Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:27 am

    They are getting post ODS-E versions, so I assume A3? Not the A4 so you are right.


    Re Wagner officers being ex. Russian military, well… there is difference when you are in peace time and do nothing but chase soldiers. Wagner on other hand participated in conflicts since the day they were formed. Not only they carried institutionalised training, but brought their own, removed what wasn’t needed and so on. They are always fighting when they don’t have superiority in firepower nor numbers.

    And yes, military officers are like kids compared to them. They are more comparable to proper SF in their experiences and have more conventional understanding now too.

    I think their effectiveness is shown in Ukraine. Fighting against numerically superior forces, also they have artillery shortages (talking about wagner, not Russian army and I am not sure if it was fixed) they don’t have abundant heavy equipment too.

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:47 am

    They are getting A2 not A3's, etc bradleys made in 1988.

    We don't even use A2's anymore in combat roles just training, so they are taking hem outta mothball and giving it to Ukraine


    Last edited by SeigSoloyvov on Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:48 am

    Seig "Ukraine isn't getting new mod Bradleys,"

    As Regular and i commented, its not really old Bradleys but not new either. The Pentagon has reported that they will be some of the 1400 that were updated to M2A2-OSD standard. Presumably similar to those sold to the Craots a year or so ago.

    Backman "How are these infantry fighting vehicles going to enter Ukraine?"

    There are videos of Bradleys on the move in Bulgaria, don't know which version, but that may be related to the US Airborne troops in Romania. It is an alternative route into Ukraine tp Poland as per the loads of Turkish stuff on the way in.
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:53 am

    M2A2-OSD is a 1991 modification.....it is nothing modern so yes they are very old bradleys
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    Post  JohninMK Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:57 am

    M2A2-OSD is a 1991 modification.....

    Which could have taken 10+ years to work through. I think we can be confident that the US will not be handing over low mileage samples to be used by almost untrained (in US eyes) crews in an environment where there is a very high chance of their destruction and probably inadequate maintenance and spares.


    Last edited by JohninMK on Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Isos Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:59 am

    Lancet will take care of those bradleys easily.

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    Post  JohninMK Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:03 pm

    As to where the Russians destroy them, the strategy to date seems to have been to allow tanks/etc in the main to pass through Ukraine empty, using energy etc on the way, then attack them in the east when they have crews in them.

    There must be some pros and cons with that approach.

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:13 pm

    Not really the first ODS came along a few months after DS and even if you wanna try that route, A2's are 1988 models and even if they upgraded an A2 with ODS a few years ago its still the 1991 mod. These are old bradleys no matter how you wanna slice it
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    Post  Hole Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:20 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 28 Fl2sr410
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 28 Flznah11
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 28 Flznah10

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    Post  Hole Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:21 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 28 Fl2w7i10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 28 Fl3gcq10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 28 Fl08at10
    BMD´s in Crimea

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    Post  famschopman Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:29 pm

    The bradley version really isn’t that important or relevant. The Tow-2B they carry is. In Iraq they made good work of tank crews. Not sure if any modern tank can handle the penetrator coming in from the top, penetrating and the blowing of the turret. You need a shtora system maybe on each tank to counter them.

    The thing here is that you now a high mobile platform carrying multiple missiles which is not impossible but tougher to take out.

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