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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

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    Dr.Snufflebug


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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Jan 09, 2023 5:51 pm

    It's likely to do with maintenance issues or just incompetence on the part of the crew. No vehicle, wheeled or tracked, is impervious to crappy conditions and bad substrate, and to avoid the most common pitfalls you need proper maintenance and smart driving.

    That said, the M113s do suck in a lot of other ways unrelated to mobility and weather. Well known from elsewhere beforehand, but we certainly saw that once again on the Kherson front. It was practically a turkey shoot, and god knows how many M113 wrecks litter those fields now.

    Arkhanghelsk wrote:Holy shit the whole front is collapsing

    They already took Krasna Gora and Blagodatnoye

    Once they break Seversk from Bakhmut the whole flank is gonna fold

    I'd push to Chasov Yar and watch the whole Kharkov line from Kremenayya and Svatovo to Liman fall apart

    The right flank is exposed, they are in danger of losing everything which depended on the Charlie Line as a flank

    If the reports are true, Airborne and Marines have reinforced Wagner in several key locations and this has allowed them to really tip the scale in their favor, seemingly taking the Ukrainians by complete surprise.

    There are multiple reports that Republican army guys are suddenly rapidly moving forward in the Ugledar area too, southwest of Donetsk.

    I did have a very strong feeling that something big-ish was going to happen at the end of the weekend, as I said last week regarding the unusually convenient marriage between the Christmas truce and the weather...

    Also, the Ukrainians are very weary, let's not forget that. They've been "softened up" if you excuse the cynical parlance for a long time now by Wagner, both casualty-wise and psychologically.


    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:06 pm; edited 6 times in total

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jan 09, 2023 5:56 pm

    Krasna Gora has been stormed, M-03 was blocked as an exit!

    The whole area is falling !

    If I am VSU, I'm hauling ass to Chasov Yar, there's no way out now

    💥💥💥The RF Armed Forces launched a "powerful assault" on Soledar - Deputy Defense Minister of Ukraine Maliar.
    The city could fall within hours, he added.

    something does not work💥💥💥

    LETS GO GUYS

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 36 Scree124

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:08 pm

    What is more important, seems that Ukrs are throwing every single unit they have to close the gap in Soledar.
    Azov remains, Kraken, all the terobrona they have left, and the mercs they can assemble.
    Some of those already feel the vibe and go missing on the route - two Brits reported gone today ...
    Today a chief of staff of the special units of the border guards was reported KIA.
    Border guards.
    Chief of staff.
    Cooks go next.
    And drummers from the orchestra shortly after.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:11 pm

    https://t.me/i20028843/42304

    Some Ukros Forces are watching from outside the city

    The battle for Bakhmut is commencing soon

    I wonder , would they go straight down M-03, or to Seversk?

    Chasov Yar?

    What's the move from here?

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:25 pm

    Chasov Yar is too vulnerable to flanks, the Ukies cannot use it, if they lose soledar they will have to fall back to the Sloviansk and Krama line
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    Post  caveat emptor Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:51 pm

    Chasov Yar and its vicinity  are on highest terrain in this part of Donbas. Ukrainians will, most likely, try to hold it.
    From there, you can control supply lines between Kostyatyinovka and Kramatorsk.

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    Post  caveat emptor Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:56 pm

    Ochakov explosion was huge, since the guy that recorded video is almost 4 kilometers away.
    https://t.me/RVvoenkor/35560

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    Post  ucmvulcan Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:04 pm

    M113 is a major reason why I think the Bradley and Abrams would be utterly useless. Before I continue, I am going to piss off a lot of you. The Abrams is the best tank in the world. Wait, don't add me to your foe's list just yet. Its the best tank in the world in the hands of American tankists, benefiting from the US logistics and supply network, and operating as part of America's combined arms doctrine of establishing air supremacy/air superiority, close air and artillery support and using intel to strike where the enemy is weakest.

    Ukrainian troops do not have the thousands of hours of drill and training that US troops do

    They don't have the logistics support the US does, US has something like 20 soldiers in logistics and support/rear area services for every soldier at the front. We also have lots of support vehicles, the ability to perform maintenance and overhaul engines, and quickly and adequately provide gas and munitions for our tanks. Ukraine? They would not have the ability to overhaul US equipment. They could not supply the Abrams with fuel or ammunition. So no logistical support, that's strike two.

    Lastly, the Abrams needs to be part of an integrated whole. Ukraine doesn't have air supremacy, it doesn't even have air superiority so Ukrainian tankists can't call in air support. They don't have artillery support either.

    So while the Abrams, in American hands, is pound for pound best in the world, in Ukraine it would be a poorly deployed sitting duck sitting in the field broken down, out of gas and ammo, and waiting for a dorito to put it out of its misery.

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    Post  kvs Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:17 pm

    The M113 is immobilized with its tracks fully frozen in the mud. That this vehicle can operate in winter is not relevant, so can any
    car. It lacks the power to break free of the frozen mud lock. But this is true even for tanks with bigger engines. This is one of
    the reasons why operating in the mud transition period is a bad idea for any army.

    They should have parked the M113 on logs.

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    Post  thegopnik Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:23 pm

    https://files.catbox.moe/pvzo31.mp4

    at this rate Ukrainian soldiers are going to help their population become pro-russian.

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:30 pm

    @umcvulcan

    Well, yeah, I agree and it's pretty much what I've said before. The Abrams (and Leo 2!) hasn't done well in service other than their respective countries of origin. This is indisputable, the primitive ME playing ground has made a joke out of everything.

    When used as designed, by their designers, it's a whole other story.

    But M113s are objectively crap regardless, I dare say. There are other western APCs that are much better. The USSR and later Russian ones are much better too. Just objectively.


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    Post  Odin of Ossetia Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:31 pm





    They are trying to forcibly conscript him?


    To let you know, in Poland during December of the last year 70 000 men left the country in order to avoid being called up to serve in the Polish military, and Poland is not even directly involved in the war. There have been recently call ups for the reserve military training in Poland.


    It is understandable.

    For many ethnic Poles there is no real motivation to fight on behalf of the Ukrainians.


    http://asaland.proboards.com/thread/460/land-zamosc-zamojszczyzna-1942-1944


    http://michalw.narod.ru/index-Truth.html


    I cannot comprehend how one can fight for their own genociders.





    Last edited by Odin of Ossetia on Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:33 pm

    But M113s are objectively crap regardless, I dare say. There are other western APCs that are much better. The USSR and later Russian ones are much better too. Just objectively.

    The fact that Germans can't find 40 Marders to fulfill the political declaration is much more fun than M113 - at least the latest exists Laughing

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    Post  Kiko Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:57 pm

    Ukraine loses Soledar and Artemovsk, by Evgeny Krutikov for VZGLYAD. 01.09.2023.

    Rejecting the Christmas truce, Kyiv received painful breakthroughs in the defense line in the Donbass. The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation have achieved decisive successes in Soledar and Artemovsk, important strategic points that the Ukrainian command is trying to keep at any cost, including for political reasons.


    As of January 9, fighting is already underway in the center of Soledar and in the area of ​​five-story buildings in the north-east of the city. Two railway stations, a number of salt mines, residential buildings in the south and southeast along Oktyabrskaya Street came under the control of the RF Armed Forces. The village of Bakhmutskoye in the southwest of Soledar was also cleared. The units advancing from the east, from the side of the village of Yakovlevka, went to the area behind the Transfiguration Church, and the assault detachments went to Yurchina Gora, cutting off the section of the route to Blagodatny, that is, cutting off the supply of the group in the strategically important Seversk.

    According to the VZGLYAD newspaper, by noon fierce battles began for the administration building of Soledar and for the neighboring House of Culture, in other words, for the city center. Satellite images show a large fire near the central square. The defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has become fragmented, it no longer has a single command and is divided into separate groups.


    The day before, the withdrawal of the 128th separate mountain assault brigade of the Armed Forces of Ukraine began, which quickly turned into a flight. The 61st brigade also began to leave positions, despite attempts to urgently reinforce it with reserve battalions. As a result, she left the position, which led to the flight of the 10th mountain assault brigade, as well as the 17th tank brigade - it was she who represented the last operational reserve that was supposed to hold Soledar and plug holes in the defense.

    However, ideologically motivated units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, including the special forces "Karpaty" and separate units of mountain assault brigades, tried to hold observation posts in five-story buildings on Karpinskogo Street, so it was premature to talk about the occupation of Soledar. But on Monday, the Ukrainian units (or rather, their remnants) retreated to the north-west of the city to the Artemsoli area and the Sol railway station.


    Theoretically, this can be called the third line of defense, which boils down to an attempt to stay on the outskirts until the arrival of the reinforcements announced by Zelensky  (it is assumed that we are talking about the newly formed “numbered” brigades from those mobilized in the Chernihiv region, which have been undergoing combat coordination at the Goncharovsky training ground for the last month).

    The second task of the remnants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the city is to prevent Russian troops from quickly reaching the north of Soledar and cutting off the road to Seversk. In fact, it has already failed, since the crossroads of the road to Seversk (the corner of Oktyabrskaya and Pionerskaya streets) has already been placed under fire control by the RF Armed Forces.

    The situation near Artemovsk also changed dramatically (in the Ukrainian manner - Bakhmut). By the morning of January 9, units of the RF Armed Forces drove out the combined detachments of the 60th and 17th Ombre from the village of Podgorodnee, that is, they opened up the possibility of encircling Artemovsk from the north. In the south and southeast of the city, the fortifications in the villages of Opytnoe and Kleshcheevka were being destroyed and the territory around the gypsum plant (KNAUF) on Patrice Lumumba Street was being cleared.

    The Armed Forces of Ukraine constantly transferred reinforcements to Artemovsk from among the reserves of the 60th brigade, as well as two armored groups of the 28th mechanized brigade, separate companies of special forces and theterodefense. Presumably, the nearest reserve of the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be the 58th brigade and the 93rd brigade from the same Chernihiv region. A couple of numbered brigades, which are hastily transferred from the Zaporozhye direction to Bakhmut, will not have time to get there.


    The main form of defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Soledar and Artemovsk was indiscriminate shelling by the artillery battalion of the 60th brigade and the 17th tank brigade, which are located outside the contact combat zone. Five Su-25s and two MiG-29s were also connected from the airfield in Mirgorod.

    The amusing fortifications built on the central streets of Soledar in the form of traditional anti-tank gouges made of rails welded to each other turned out to be of no use to anyone.


    According to a number of data, the active transfer of reserves of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Soledar and Artemovsk will be able to begin no earlier than January 20. Consequently, they will hold a new line of defense, to the west of the broken system Artemovsk - Soledar - Seversk.

    In the middle of the day on January 9, reports began to come in that the assault detachments began cleaning up Experienced south of Artemovsk and entered the villages of Krasnaya Gora and Paraskovievka. The last two are small, even by local standards, settlements along the railway, but they are tactically important positions, as they close the encirclement of Artemovsk from the north, cut off the local Ukrainian garrison from Soledar. When this success is consolidated, the entire space between Artemovsk and Soledar will come under the control of the RF Armed Forces.

    Cleansing of small villages to the south and southwest of Artemovsk threatens the supply of the local garrison. The new line of defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine will be built, as in Soledar, along the western outskirts of the city, and further along the settlement of Chasov Yar, which over the past few months has been turned by the Armed Forces of Ukraine into the main stronghold of the entire Ukrainian group, as well as into a distribution point for arriving reserves .


    Chasov Yar is a good position; quarries of refractory clay are historically located in this town (the factories themselves have not been working for a long time, but they are a “industrial complex” convenient for defense). In addition, right in front of Chasovy Yar, the Seversky Donets-Donbass canal flows, which even in cold weather (on Monday in the Donbass minus 12-15 Celsius) is a defensive position.

    The loss of the entire defensive line Artemovsk-Soledar-Seversk threatens the Armed Forces of Ukraine with far-reaching consequences.


    Firstly, the pressure on Kremennaya and Lysichansk will stop, the entire flank of the Ukrainian front in this direction will sag.


    Secondly, the creation of a new line of defense (tentatively around Chasov Yar) will require special efforts from Kyiv. Already, about six numbered brigades that made up the garrisons of Artemovsk and Soledar are practically defeated, they need to be rotated and understaffed with new recruits.

    Over the past weeks, these garrisons have been kept at the expense of "veteran" units, including mountain assault, highly motivated "Svidomo" and special forces. The new numbered brigades, made up entirely of ideologically motivated sergeants and officers from among veterans mobilized with little participation, show little effectiveness.


    At the moment, the defense line of the Armed Forces of Ukraine has been broken, and the Ukrainian command will no longer be able to return the situation. However, it is too early to talk about the full occupation of Artemovsk - Kyiv will hold this settlement to the last for ideological reasons.

    Even now, its further defense is meaningless, but there are no signs of the withdrawal of units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from the city. Moreover, there is evidence that in the center of Artemovsk, fortifications are being created along the lines of Soledar, and the Armed Forces of Ukraine continue to insist on strengthening the grouping in the city, including at the expense of units from the southern direction.

    On the other hand, there are reports that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are increasing their presence in Vuhledar, which may also mean preparations for a counteroffensive in the southern direction. So far, the pace of advancement of the RF Armed Forces in Soledar and around Artemovsk is quite high, but unpleasant surprises are still possible.

    https://vz.ru/society/2023/1/9/1194217.html

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    Post  thegopnik Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:58 pm

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Jan 09, 2023 8:37 pm

    The Ukrainians "volksturmed" last spring too.

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    Post  Hole Mon Jan 09, 2023 8:40 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 36 Fiftyo10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 36 Fmc3bx10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 36 Scree563
    SBU tried to make propaganda movie.  Laughing

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    Post  Hole Mon Jan 09, 2023 8:47 pm

    So while the Abrams, in American hands, is pound for pound best in the world,
    To heavy. To big. No auto-loader. Shitty engine. Inferior firepower, except when using radioactive ammo.
    The thing was designed for showrooms and not real wars.
    In a real war you don´t have perfect conditions and can rely on a 50 men engineer team arriving just in
    time to clean the air filters or haul the tank back to the next harbor for a trip to the tank factory if it needs
    a repair.

    Twitter news:
    Our sources from near Bakhmut report: employees of the SBU were transferred to the group near Bakhmut, with the task of stopping alarmism and desertion in the ranks of the ZSU, associated with heavy losses near Bakhmut.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:11 pm

    Yeah M1abrams is definitely not best pound for pound tank lmao, that's t90M at 47 tons facing Javelin, Stugna, NLAW, At4, Matador, and basically the entire western atgm arsenal

    Houthis and PMU showed that m1abrams was not that good when they destroyed M1abrams by the hundreds

    And US vs Iraq is a terrible example, such an army was hollowed out after a decade of war with Iran, and showed that in Kuwait

    2003 war was just finishing off what Iran had already bled

    T90M decimated a NATO armed Soviet army, armed with most expensive ATGM weapons

    That is what you can call best pound for pound tank

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:39 pm

    I don't think you understood what "umcvulcan" said, guys.

    It's like the old AR-15/M-16/M4 vs Kalashnikov (of any variety) shite that has polluted the internet since time immemorial.

    They all do their job very well in optimal conditions, but the Kalashnikov will indeed do better in sub-optimal conditions, better than yankee pig dog.

    The massive U.S. military machine can influence or shape the conditions in ways no other country can though. I mean, their military budget is like ten times Russia's, maybe more. Expect their weapons, the way the yankee pig dog designs these things to take this into account. American soldiers can use all of this equipment the way it was intended, and they do it very, very well.

    Give the same weapons to some Bandera loser... Like my match rifle in the hands of some ghetto gangster. Waste of time and money.


    Last edited by Dr.Snufflebug on Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:07 pm; edited 4 times in total

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    Post  SolidarityWithRussia Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:41 pm

    Has the US ever been able to win an offensive war against an enemy that has not been weakened before?
    Iraq was weakened by Iran.
    The 3rd Reich was weakened by the Soviet Union.
    Mexico was weakened by interior problems.
    Other than that the glorious US army has lost against enemies like Canada or the Taliban.

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    Post  ludovicense Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:49 pm

    It seems that there is a NATO meeting scheduled for the 20th of this month to discuss the deployment of combat tanks.
    Abrams, Challenger, Leopard are on the docket.

    Apparently all Soviet equipment has been destroyed or is out of action for technical reasons... and there is no way to replace it.

    I think they'll approve....but there are a lot of technical, logistical (Western drinking tanks) and training issues to be overcome.

    Unless NATO goes straight to war.

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    Post  ludovicense Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:53 pm

    Sim, M1abrams definitivamente não é o melhor tanque libra por libra lmao, isso é t90M em 47 toneladas enfrentando Javelin, Stugna, NLAW, At4, Matador e basicamente todo o arsenal atgm ocidental.....

    No one talks about NATO's "wonders" anti-tank weapons anymore, which presumably performed well below expectations.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Mon Jan 09, 2023 9:58 pm

    It still speaks to the performance of T90 in a high intensity conflict

    Which m1 Abrams did not see, as they fought a broken Iraqi army, which fled every engagement, and which at best fired RPG-7 at Abrams

    M1 Abrams if tested against the same volume of anti tank fire, ISR and targeting assets, drones, would have a very different report than its performance in Iraq in 2003

    Iraq did not possess drones, did not possess ISR, did not possess all NATO weapons and logistic capabilities, and did not possess 120 billion dollar military Budget lol...

    And put USAF into Ukrainian IADS environment, and the story will get worse

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:01 pm

    ludovicense wrote:No one talks about NATO's "wonders" anti-tank weapons anymore, which presumably performed well below expectations.

    Nope. Here you also have a curious example. The Ukrainians were gifted countless Javelins, NLAWs, Panzerfaust-3, AT-4s etc. None have made any noticeable impact anywhere. We've seen some hits, sure, some successul, some not, but mostly duds and hundreds of unfired leftovers... That were promptly shipped to Moscow for analysis.

    The jihadis in Syria that were gifted with older generation TOWs were way more successful, pound for pound.

    It's different when you fight a peer or near-peer enemy.



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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35 - Page 36 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #35

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