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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47

    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:08 am

    I cannot imagine the f16 will fare well In Ukraine like I said with the Leos and Abrams, Ukraine just lacks the proper training and everything else you'd need. Its like trying to put a bandaid on a gun shot wound, F16 is a match for any russian plane, but Ukraine just doesn't have the capability to use it well

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    Post  TMA1 Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:14 am

    Eh the f-16 block 52 was and is still a very solid fighter but we are talking essentially similar capabilities as the mig-29m equipped with r-77-1 and r-74 missiles and A2G weaponry.

    The issue is it is piecemeal and not part of the overall western combined arms doctrine. They will certainly be more dangerous especially with aim-120c5 missiles and datalinks. That said with combined Russian air defense and interceptors they will get shot out of the sky or bombed on the ground more than likely.

    What is disturbing is that this all undoubtedly implies that the natosphere surveillance aircraft will be helping guide and track on targets and evade with probablyittle to no use of it's own radar which is the most blatant aggression that would come from the west.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:22 am

    European f16 are different. There are differences even among ones operated in one airforces. Some can carry jassm, some cant. Some can operated relatively news amraams, and some does not. Ones donated to ukrs wont be the most advanced and less ussed for sure. IT is just another show.

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    Post  d_taddei2 Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:25 am

    Is Luka hinting at what's to come for Ukraine?


    Alexander Lukashenko about military operations in Ukraine in a interview:

    “Now Russia will grind you there.  Living force and technology.  Already those motivated, ideologically minded Natsiks, as they were called, nationalists, these people are not ideologically strong.  They are all dead already.  Who is fighting here?  Those whom you catch on the streets and bring here.  They are not prepared.  Well, a few soldiers.  They can't handle this car.  Russia has changed.

    Russia today has the latest weapons at the front.  There are already enough drones.  It's a completely different army.  And the most dangerous thing is that they have 250,000 volunteer corps.  Russia has 250 thousand, which are now trained and in reserve.  There are fewer Russians at the front now"

    "No need.  And you go, you understand, like stubbed and drunk.  You go at the ready, as they show the Germans in the movies.  You go to these barricades, but you don't even reach, we see it, the minefields.  You are simply destroyed by the thousands.  You have 45 thousand people died during the counteroffensive and left there crippled.  Your losses at the front are one to eight."

    The President continued:

    “Here they will grind you here, and then they will do what you and the leadership are most afraid of.  They will cut you off to Moldova, Transnistria.  What will you do next?

    “They will cut off your west.  You will be left with a scrap, if there is.  That's what will happen to you?  And there will be no state like Ukraine, our state with you.  Our native land - yours and mine"

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    Post  Hole Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:40 am

    and not what drones will typically observe.
    It looks as if the russian side has enough recon drones along the frontlines to use some recon drones to film other recon drones doing recon.  Very Happy

    What are they going to use them for ?
    The Japanese had a special technique at the end of WWII.  lol1

    It is almost like they know what they're doing.
    You mean they got trained soldiers and experienced officers? Mention that to someone in the western MSM and he/she/it will get a stroke.

    There was this one episode where Cartman says he is going to kick Kyle's ass and then Kyle slaps him and he starts crying. 
    The episode where he wants a fight with a girl and then eats his own underwear to get out of it is even better.

    Direct hit 
    Shocked That must have hurt.

    And there will be no state like Ukraine, our state with you.  
    russia

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    Post  d_taddei2 Fri Aug 18, 2023 11:50 am

    In the USA, they started talking about the need for peace talks on Ukraine

    Politiko writes that even one of Ukraine's main allies in the US Congress, Andy Harris, admitted the failure of the Ukrainian offensive.

    He said that the US was short of funds after the pandemic and that he would oppose giving money to Kiev without inspector general oversight. The politician is, among other things, afraid of waste and fraud, the publication explains.

    "Zelensky would have suffered a heavy defeat in the war without our support. And with our help, he won't win. The situation is now at an impasse," Harris said, acknowledging the need for negotiations.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:12 pm

    d_taddei2 wrote: In the USA, they started talking about the need for peace talks on Ukraine

    Politiko writes that even one of Ukraine's main allies in the US Congress, Andy Harris, admitted the failure of the Ukrainian offensive.

     He said that the US was short of funds after the pandemic and that he would oppose giving money to Kiev without inspector general oversight.  The politician is, among other things, afraid of waste and fraud, the publication explains.

    "Zelensky would have suffered a heavy defeat in the war without our support.  And with our help, he won't win.  The situation is now at an impasse," Harris said, acknowledging the need for negotiations.


    Peace talks?

    Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz Razz

    Was the USSR interested in "peace talks" in Jan 1945? No. If the Ukrotrash unconditionally surrender then only their nazi leadership needs to be tried and hung for war crimes. If not, well... lets just say it won't be an enjoyable experience for them.

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    Post  franco Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:48 pm

    On Tuesday, August 15, at about noon, a sabotage and reconnaissance group of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, consisting of approximately 15 people, tried to cross the Russian border near the village of Kurkovichi, Starodubsky Municipal District, Bryansk Region, but got into a hidden forward position of the border mortar group of the Russian Armed Forces.

    The saboteurs went immediately to a short distance, after which a shooting battle began. Ukrainian terrorists, not expecting resistance, began to retreat, firing back, despite the fact that superior forces were on their side.

    “ During the shooting battle, our brother-border guard received a bullet wound, unfortunately, the wound turned out to be fatal - on the way to the hospital, the border guard died from blood loss. Covering the retreat of the DRG, the enemy opened mortar fire, as a result of which two more border guards received shell shock, one of them was severe. Reinforcements were quickly sent to the area. The breakout attempt was successfully eliminated ", - writes the Telegram channel " Senior Border Guard".

    As expected, the border guards were the first to accept the battle and did not let the saboteurs into the territory of Russia, despite the numerical superiority of the enemy.

    The terrorists suffered heavy losses - only according to preliminary confirmed data, four "two hundredths", whose bodies the saboteurs threw on the battlefield. The video footage shows the bodies of well-equipped militants with NATO weapons.

    In addition, trophies were taken - FPV drones, on which Russian symbols and inscriptions "property of the FSB" are applied. There is no doubt that the drones were being prepared for provocations.

    Also, the border guards seized several units of Western-made small arms in full body kit, explosives and other components.

    Hiding, Ukrainian saboteurs fired mortars at the village of Kurkovichi, trying to avenge the failed attempt to break through. The shells hit the local dairy complex, where the veterinarian was shell-shocked.

    Great sacrifices do not stop Ukrainian saboteurs. Early in the morning of August 16, a Ukrainian DRG consisting of six terrorists again tried to penetrate the territory of the Bryansk region. During the ensuing battle, five out of six militants were destroyed by border guards, the regional governor Alexander Bogomaz wrote in his Telegram channel.

    https://odnarodyna-org.translate.goog/article/ukrainskie-operacii-pod-chuzhim-flagom-sorvany-rossiyskimi-pogranichnikami?utm_source=warfiles.ru&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 18, 2023 1:21 pm

    "Zelensky would have suffered a heavy defeat in the war without our support. And with our help, he won't win. The situation is now at an impasse," Harris said, acknowledging the need for negotiations.

    It is very interesting isn't it... before the conflict Putin gave some documents to the EU and HATO about Russian concerns and they laughed in his face and said no.

    When the war they were working so hard to make inevitable started they thought this was their chance to destroy the Russian economy and get Putin overthrown and they stopped Zelensky from surrendering to ensure Russia collapsed and their army was defeated.

    Now that their much talked about counter offensive has totally failed and all their reserves used up they are talking about a stalemate... pretending that all this time Russia has been doing all it could to defeat Kiev and push them back to the Polish border.

    I believe it was Churchill who said... we have not yet begun to fight... but in this case it is rather more accurate...

    Negotiating right now would be a total waste of time because Zelensky is not prepared to give up anything at all... even territory that is already lost.

    The real problem as I see it, is that Zelensky is claiming everything so when he concedes things he is not losing anything he hasn't already lost anyway... sort of like... OK, you can have Crimea and we get xxx back.

    No... actually the real problem is that Zelensky and the US and EU and HATO simply cannot be trusted at all so it does not matter what is agreed upon or signed it will just be used as a delaying tactic to build up forces and perhaps do a better job next time.

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    Post  Airbornewolf Fri Aug 18, 2023 2:29 pm

    Wagner school:
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47 - Page 17 Photo100

    Battle between RF and Ukrainian vehicles at the Zaporozhye frontline


    from the source:
    ukrainian infantry fighting vehicles are storming the Russian positions in the first video, but a Russian tank came out to meet them, destroying two of them.
    The battle lasted several hours until the evening, by that time another BMP came up from the Russian side, and a tank from the Ukrainian side.
    The battle ends with the Russian infantry destroying a Ukrainian retreating tank.

    RF quick reaction force extracts Russian pilot from downed KA-52

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    Post  Godric Fri Aug 18, 2023 4:08 pm

    America is putting pressure on the Netherlands & Denmark to send there F-16s after the Ukrainian pilots have been trained, those F-16s of Netherlands were delivered in the early 1980s and they have only 24 left they are classed as block 20, as for Denmark there F-16s are even older there F-16As and if Denmark were to send there F-16s they would have no fighter/strike aircraft in there airforce

    so you are talking airframes that are in there 5th decade of service

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    Post  Hole Fri Aug 18, 2023 4:37 pm

    Godric wrote:so you are talking airframes that are in there 5th decade of service
    Just as Biden.  lol1

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    Post  Godric Fri Aug 18, 2023 4:49 pm

    Hole wrote:
    Godric wrote:so you are talking airframes that are in there 5th decade of service
    Just as Biden.  lol1

    nah he looks as if he is 200 years old, re animated with electricity

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    Post  Arrow Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:23 pm

    Godric wrote:America is putting pressure on the Netherlands & Denmark to send there F-16s after the Ukrainian pilots have been trained, those F-16s of Netherlands were delivered in the early 1980s and they have only 24 left they are classed as block 20, as for Denmark there F-16s are even older there F-16As and if Denmark were to send there F-16s they would have no fighter/strike aircraft in there airforce

    so you are talking airframes that are in there 5th decade of service

    It will be over 120 planes. A lot
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    Post  ALAMO Fri Aug 18, 2023 5:41 pm

    Hold your horses lads.
    Actually the most modern F-16 in Europe are the Polish ones, but nobody is considering giving them anywhere.
    It is true that all the others are A/B versions, yet a lot of those has been modified.
    These modifications equalled MLU, so in general all Euro 16s can use AIM-120. The difference is, that not all of them in its newest versions.
    The catch is, that there are two countries set to give their planes - and in both cases they still have a vanilla, non modified versions that represent a 80s level. And as most of those has been delivered in the early 80s, we talk a 30+ y/o pieces, in some cases 40 y/o. No need to add them age, it is good enough Laughing
    My guess is that what Ukrs will get, is using a 80s standard radar and some improvements making them able to use AIM-120B and maybe some Mavericks. That's all. It is just another bogus to pretend that something is being done.

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    Post  nomadski Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:11 pm

    The F16 , if in Ukraine , must use proper runways , and if carrying any kind of useful load , must either be stationed close to frontlines , where it is vulnerable to SRBM , SAM and fighter jets , or further away with smaller load and mid-air refuelling , where the Tankers are sitting Ducks and runways can be taken out with MRBM , fighter bombers and jets . So if this announcement of a hundred or so F16 , is real and not propaganda , then they know these planes must start flying from Poland and attack from Polish Air bases . The only way is to do it , and deny doing it , so article 5 applies , when Wagner attack from Belarus or Russia attack Polish bases . They could come to it's " aid " . So Wagner rapid reaction must be ready .


    Edit : Any F16, armed or unarmed in transfer flight or combat operation , by pilot of any nationality from any Airfields, is a legitimate target, as soon as entering Ukraine, as well as Airfield it took off from.


    Last edited by nomadski on Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:40 pm

    Lancets in the USSR, 1945.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47 - Page 17 18258510
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47 - Page 17 18258512
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47 - Page 17 18258511


    At first I thought it was some AI generated BS, but nope. These are Soviet SB-1/M IR-homing bombs from the late 1940s, trialled on Tupolev Tu-2s but ultimately never put into action due to several factors influencing each other:
    * Only BIG targets spewing a lot of heat (powerplants, foundries etc) could be reliably targeted
    * The electronics were expensive as hell
    * The warheads were rather small, and not effective against big targets anyway

    So, basically, if you wanted to bomb a big factory, regular bombs did it just fine. It would still take a while before homing technology matured, into the 50s.

    Anyway, just funny how Lancety it looked, though it was a completely different thing of course. The reason I posted it was just because I'd never heard of it before though I was well aware of other Soviet hi-tech from the war that rarely, if ever gets mentioned in western sources (radars, nightvision etc, yes they had them too).

    Anyway, probably better for some history thread if there is one, I guess.

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    Post  Godric Fri Aug 18, 2023 7:40 pm

    Arrow wrote:
    Godric wrote:America is putting pressure on the Netherlands & Denmark to send there F-16s after the Ukrainian pilots have been trained, those F-16s of Netherlands were delivered in the early 1980s and they have only 24 left they are classed as block 20, as for Denmark there F-16s are even older there F-16As and if Denmark were to send there F-16s they would have no fighter/strike aircraft in there airforce

    so you are talking airframes that are in there 5th decade of service

    It will be over 120 planes. A lot

    Denmark and Netherlands have 44 F-16s between them, if Denmark give them there F-16s they have no offensive or defensive airforce, so you are talking about 24 early 80's F-16s that were due to be mothballed from the Netherlands

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    Post  Ispan Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:24 pm

    In replying to the angst of a lot of people about the "advances" of the Ukrainian army in the southern front, a reader from my blog, a long serving officer, gives a professional explication of the "elastic defense", I liked it so much I couldn't help being pedantic and spoiling it with a long extract from a book explaining it in further detail

    https://guerraenucrania.wordpress.com/2023/08/18/la-defensa-elastica-en-el-frente-de-zaporozhe/

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:04 pm

    Netherlands nor Denmark have that many F16s.

    The Eu in total has 568 F-16s of various types and conditions they could send, if people wanna know the exact number there you go.

    We the US have about 1k, so add the US with EU and that's 1,568k.

    None Eu counties and have about 521 combined, Eygpt, Taiwan, SK. But these countries will not fork over any aircraft to Ukraine for obvious reasons mainly Sk and Taiwan who need them due to China. Eygpt might part with some but they said they will only sell Ukraine stuff if they pay upfront, they don't accept IOU.

    f16s on order include countries like Slo, Bulgaria etc.

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    Post  Arrow Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:08 pm

    The Eu in total has 568 F-16s of various types and conditions they could send, if people wanna know the exact number there you go. We the US have about 1k, so add the US with EU and that's 1,568k. None Eu counties and have about 521 combined, Eygpt, Taiwan, SK. But these countries will not fork over any aircraft to Ukraine for obvious reasons mainly Sk and Taiwan who need them due to China. Eygpt might part with some but they said they will only sell Ukraine stuff if they pay upfront, they don't accept IOU. wrote:

    Yes, NATO/USA has an overwhelming tactical air superiority over Russia.

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    Post  thegopnik Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:12 pm

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Oo4JCMm5S0&pp=ygUeYnJlYWtpbmcgbmV3cyByb2JlcnQgZiBrZW5uZWR5


    Last edited by thegopnik on Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Kiko Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:14 pm

    Russia should start seriously producing the MiG-35 for export to friendly countries to offset the F-16 brouhaha impelled by yanquis worldwide.

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:44 pm

    @WeebUnionWar
    Wagner's New Meatgrinder | Operation Trident Siege | Russia's Plan To End The War
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #47 - Page 17 F31C4HDXwAA1o31?format=jpg&name=large

    https://twitter.com/WeebUnionWar/status/1692582599225421999

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    Post  mnztr Fri Aug 18, 2023 10:58 pm

    After watching all the drones fly into bunkers, I wonder how soon it will be before a drone with AI flys into a bunker and demands the surrender of everyone. Surrender or I will explode. There is no other option. Touch the drone or shoot it and it will explode, run and it will explode. Surrender or die. The benefit is you can use the drone again!!! And after a few vids of exploding drones killing everyone I would bet surrender rates would get close to 100%. You can even get the surrendering troops to deliver the drone as their secure IFF token so they don't get killed trying to surrender. A nice female motherly voice. I bet it would work really well.

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