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Big_GazzaNice vid of Nauka, including some use of the ERA remote manipulator.
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47 posters
Russian Space Program: News & Discussion #4
Big_Gazza- Posts : 4912
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Kiko- Posts : 3899
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Russia to quit International Space Station after 2024, 26.07.2022.
By that time, Russia will start building its own space station, Roscosmos chief says.
Russia is going to withdraw from the International Space Station (ISS) project with the West after 2024, the new head of the country’s space agency Roscosmos, Yury Borisov, said on Tuesday.
Moscow is going to fulfill all its obligations to foreign partners as part of the ISS project, but “the decision to withdraw from this station after 2024 has been made,” Borisov told President Vladimir Putin during a meeting at the Kremlin.
“I think, by that time, we’ll start putting together a Russian orbital station,” the space boss added.
According to Borisov’s vision, Russia’s manned space flights should be carried out in line with a balanced and systematic scientific program, so that each mission would provide the country with new knowledge in the field of space.
The previous head of Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin had predicted that the ISS, which NASA plans to operate until 2030, would “fall apart” by that time unless “huge amounts of money” are invested in its repair. But work to keep the station in orbit is no longer effective for Russia due to the current geopolitical environment, he pointed out.
Borisov also acknowledged in April that the Russian modules of the station have exhausted their lifespans.
The ISS was launched in 1998 as a joint effort by Russian, American, Japanese, Canadian and European space agencies. It’s divided into the Russian and American sections, with the latter being run by the US and other participants of the project.
https://www.rt.com/russia/559652-space-station-quit-timeframe/
By that time, Russia will start building its own space station, Roscosmos chief says.
Russia is going to withdraw from the International Space Station (ISS) project with the West after 2024, the new head of the country’s space agency Roscosmos, Yury Borisov, said on Tuesday.
Moscow is going to fulfill all its obligations to foreign partners as part of the ISS project, but “the decision to withdraw from this station after 2024 has been made,” Borisov told President Vladimir Putin during a meeting at the Kremlin.
“I think, by that time, we’ll start putting together a Russian orbital station,” the space boss added.
According to Borisov’s vision, Russia’s manned space flights should be carried out in line with a balanced and systematic scientific program, so that each mission would provide the country with new knowledge in the field of space.
The previous head of Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin had predicted that the ISS, which NASA plans to operate until 2030, would “fall apart” by that time unless “huge amounts of money” are invested in its repair. But work to keep the station in orbit is no longer effective for Russia due to the current geopolitical environment, he pointed out.
Borisov also acknowledged in April that the Russian modules of the station have exhausted their lifespans.
The ISS was launched in 1998 as a joint effort by Russian, American, Japanese, Canadian and European space agencies. It’s divided into the Russian and American sections, with the latter being run by the US and other participants of the project.
https://www.rt.com/russia/559652-space-station-quit-timeframe/
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Arkanghelsk- Posts : 3919
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Kiko wrote:Russia to quit International Space Station after 2024, 26.07.2022.
By that time, Russia will start building its own space station, Roscosmos chief says.
Russia is going to withdraw from the International Space Station (ISS) project with the West after 2024, the new head of the country’s space agency Roscosmos, Yury Borisov, said on Tuesday.
Moscow is going to fulfill all its obligations to foreign partners as part of the ISS project, but “the decision to withdraw from this station after 2024 has been made,” Borisov told President Vladimir Putin during a meeting at the Kremlin.
“I think, by that time, we’ll start putting together a Russian orbital station,” the space boss added.
According to Borisov’s vision, Russia’s manned space flights should be carried out in line with a balanced and systematic scientific program, so that each mission would provide the country with new knowledge in the field of space.
The previous head of Roscosmos Dmitry Rogozin had predicted that the ISS, which NASA plans to operate until 2030, would “fall apart” by that time unless “huge amounts of money” are invested in its repair. But work to keep the station in orbit is no longer effective for Russia due to the current geopolitical environment, he pointed out.
Borisov also acknowledged in April that the Russian modules of the station have exhausted their lifespans.
The ISS was launched in 1998 as a joint effort by Russian, American, Japanese, Canadian and European space agencies. It’s divided into the Russian and American sections, with the latter being run by the US and other participants of the project.
https://www.rt.com/russia/559652-space-station-quit-timeframe/
The ROSS is guaranteed now, very good, Borisov came through and as he did with Missiles
He will do for space industry, it is necessary to increase cooperation with China
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Hole- Posts : 11125
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In addition to ROSS there should be a BRICS space station.
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owais.usmani wrote:
I guess this means they won't be reusing any of the modules from the Russian segment of the ISS.
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kvs- Posts : 15870
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There is almost no news about the transition of rockets from kerosene to "naphtil" in Russia. This fuel reduces
substantially carbon deposits on the surface of rocket engine components. This goes together with more
efficient combustion and thus higher specific impulse in the same engine. Only Russia manufactures this
fuel. It is not just some sort of cleaner kerosene variant but its chemical formula is secret.
substantially carbon deposits on the surface of rocket engine components. This goes together with more
efficient combustion and thus higher specific impulse in the same engine. Only Russia manufactures this
fuel. It is not just some sort of cleaner kerosene variant but its chemical formula is secret.
GarryB, LMFS, Hole and Belisarius like this post
TMA1- Posts : 1194
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With the upgraded shielding will the space tug be able to transfer parts of the station to other planetary orbits?
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Big_Gazza- Posts : 4912
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TMA1 wrote:With the upgraded shielding will the space tug be able to transfer parts of the station to other planetary orbits?
If you are referring to the Zeus NEP vehicle currently under development, I expect it will be able to transport manned station modules to Martian (or Venusian) orbits. It would be an ideal piece of kit for the assembly of large orbital complexes in either deep space or around planetary bodies.
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GarryB- Posts : 40560
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I guess this means they won't be reusing any of the modules from the Russian segment of the ISS.
They evaluated most of the modules to be in need of too much repair and upgrade... better to make new parts... even more so when they can apply improvements and upgrades to the design now they have a few decades experience with their use.
Just the improvements in Solar panel technology alone over this time might improve things significantly, but many of the Russian parts were the core parts used to put the station together... in many ways the ISS was MIR 2.
With the upgraded shielding will the space tug be able to transfer parts of the station to other planetary orbits?
It has excellent potential for a space station to orbit the moon... which would massively improve communications and support to bases on the moon.
There is no atmosphere on the moon so some sort of space tether could actually be feasible too...
Unfortunately there are no radiation belts around the moon so electrical power would not be generated through such a cable in the same way a cable from a satellite in earths orbit could generate electricity... but it would be an interesting and potentially efficient way of landing things on the surface or bringing things up from the surface to orbit...
TMA1- Posts : 1194
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Agreed. The Mars fetish is too much. The moon is the perfect jumping off point. First a moon station. Then transfer of stations on the surface. With the nuclear tug you finally have the ability to keep adding modules. Eventually with a big enough moon base you can start digging underground and with enough critical infrastructure it can become self sustaining. This will be when mankind is finally an interplanetary being. The space tug is the major step. From there new orbital and moon surface station nodes can be tugged along as well as a couple landing craft and vehicles.
This is how it starts. Mars only comes after this in my opinion. With a moon station and basic base, then we can have space tugs shuttling humans to other orbits. Just imagine a dozen or so tugs shuttling in their respective orbits. Thry get these tugs to an extremely fast speed. Then refueled vehicles from earth or moon space stations and even lunar ground stations can make a timed dash to catch up with the tug to meet with it and catch rides to Ceres
Mining the asteroid belt and eventually settling the jovian moons.
Guys this is all perfectly doable. I wish a great leader could come and make peace with powers in a multipolar world and make some pact with the great powers where each sets aside twenty percent of their military budget in order to compete in space together in friendly rivalry.
This is how it starts. Mars only comes after this in my opinion. With a moon station and basic base, then we can have space tugs shuttling humans to other orbits. Just imagine a dozen or so tugs shuttling in their respective orbits. Thry get these tugs to an extremely fast speed. Then refueled vehicles from earth or moon space stations and even lunar ground stations can make a timed dash to catch up with the tug to meet with it and catch rides to Ceres
Mining the asteroid belt and eventually settling the jovian moons.
Guys this is all perfectly doable. I wish a great leader could come and make peace with powers in a multipolar world and make some pact with the great powers where each sets aside twenty percent of their military budget in order to compete in space together in friendly rivalry.
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GarryB- Posts : 40560
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Nice idea but it isn't going to happen.
The Moon is nice and relatively close and a good place to learn to be self sufficient.
Technologies like 3D printing hold enormous promise... you could have machines that grind up moon dust and moon rock that can be used to make shelters from local materials... some sort of polymer or other material that binds it up and makes it solid like rock with an outer covering in case of any dust storms or incoming material from the sky.
Boring machines could dig tunnels deeper under the rock and the spoils could be used for above ground structures where needed for even better protection from solar and space radiation and solid matter like meteoroids.
Operations on Mars will be easier despite the much greater distances because assuming some sort of reliable power source there is atmosphere and material for various things too... actually mining Mars would be cheaper and easier than mining the asteroids because the asteroids are so far away and so far apart... if asteroid fields looked like the ones in movies and documentaries the distance out from the sun would mean there is more material than in all the planets combined to create a ring that wide and deep around the sun.
The real asteroid belt standing on a decent sized asteroid... and there are some big ones.... you would not be able to see any other asteroid in the field... they would be too small and too far away... if they were as dense as the asteroid belts shown in Star Wars they would have collapsed together and formed planets with that much matter and those planets would be huge.
Getting a manned station on the moon would be a good first step and the technology needed to operate self sufficiently without every little thing needing to be sent up and brought back would be good experience for longer trips of greater distance.
If it worked I would say a long range remote control mission with a space tug to one of Jupiters or Saturns moons would be an interesting experiment too... testing instruments in extreme gravity and radiation fields would be valuable and returning it to earth orbit so it can attach to ROC and be examined and tested for damage and fatigue would be a useful base of information for future missions to those far away places.
The increased flight speed should shorten flight times and make even return trips from Pluto and Charon and perhaps even objects in the ort cloud would be possible.
The Moon is nice and relatively close and a good place to learn to be self sufficient.
Technologies like 3D printing hold enormous promise... you could have machines that grind up moon dust and moon rock that can be used to make shelters from local materials... some sort of polymer or other material that binds it up and makes it solid like rock with an outer covering in case of any dust storms or incoming material from the sky.
Boring machines could dig tunnels deeper under the rock and the spoils could be used for above ground structures where needed for even better protection from solar and space radiation and solid matter like meteoroids.
Operations on Mars will be easier despite the much greater distances because assuming some sort of reliable power source there is atmosphere and material for various things too... actually mining Mars would be cheaper and easier than mining the asteroids because the asteroids are so far away and so far apart... if asteroid fields looked like the ones in movies and documentaries the distance out from the sun would mean there is more material than in all the planets combined to create a ring that wide and deep around the sun.
The real asteroid belt standing on a decent sized asteroid... and there are some big ones.... you would not be able to see any other asteroid in the field... they would be too small and too far away... if they were as dense as the asteroid belts shown in Star Wars they would have collapsed together and formed planets with that much matter and those planets would be huge.
Getting a manned station on the moon would be a good first step and the technology needed to operate self sufficiently without every little thing needing to be sent up and brought back would be good experience for longer trips of greater distance.
If it worked I would say a long range remote control mission with a space tug to one of Jupiters or Saturns moons would be an interesting experiment too... testing instruments in extreme gravity and radiation fields would be valuable and returning it to earth orbit so it can attach to ROC and be examined and tested for damage and fatigue would be a useful base of information for future missions to those far away places.
The increased flight speed should shorten flight times and make even return trips from Pluto and Charon and perhaps even objects in the ort cloud would be possible.
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thegopnik- Posts : 1831
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I want to still be alive when they put a person on Mars. More space tug projects please.
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Hole- Posts : 11125
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Has the person to be alive? 
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Big_Gazza- Posts : 4912
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Hole wrote:Has the person to be alive?
If not, the Holy Musk, God of Exceptionalist Innovation, could do it tomorrow. The rotted corpse of the "pioneer" would safely touch down on the Martian wasteland, for about 3 microseconds, before the impact vapourises him/her into a cloud of dust and steam.
Actually, I think this will be the fate of anyone dumb enough to ever step foot onto a future hypothetical Space-ecks manned Mars misison. Their ideas for "Red Dragon" is utter nonsense and don't get me started on that sub-orbital troop carrier he's trying (and failing) to build for the Pentagram
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Scorpius- Posts : 1576
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For those who were interested in the differences between naphthyl and TS-1.
naphthyl:
void specific thrust impulse, m/s: 3 855.3
oxidizer excess coefficient: 0.90
Fuel density at 20 oC, kg/m3: 833
Kerosene TS-1:
void specific thrust impulse, m/s: 3 845.5
oxidizer excess coefficient: 0.90
Fuel density at 20 oC, kg/m3: 755
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2017/04-2017/04-05.pdf
naphthyl:
void specific thrust impulse, m/s: 3 855.3
oxidizer excess coefficient: 0.90
Fuel density at 20 oC, kg/m3: 833
Kerosene TS-1:
void specific thrust impulse, m/s: 3 845.5
oxidizer excess coefficient: 0.90
Fuel density at 20 oC, kg/m3: 755
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2017/04-2017/04-05.pdf
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kvs- Posts : 15870
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Thanks for the information. Fuel density difference of 833 vs 755 kg/m3 is substantial and demonstrates that naphtil is not a
a kerosene but a different hydrocarbon.
Fuel tanks with naphtil can be 10% smaller which saves on weight or alternatively you get more total thrust and thus higher payload
out of an identical rocket. The lower carbon deposits on engines is a big deal as well.
a kerosene but a different hydrocarbon.
Fuel tanks with naphtil can be 10% smaller which saves on weight or alternatively you get more total thrust and thus higher payload
out of an identical rocket. The lower carbon deposits on engines is a big deal as well.
GarryB, Werewolf and Big_Gazza like this post
Scorpius- Posts : 1576
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Russia has developed a technology for creating closed ecosystems for space based on the methane processing cycle:
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/04-2021/04-07.pdf
Russian manned Soyuz spacecraft use orientation engines repeatedly:
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-04.pdf
The fundamental problem of developing high-temperature converter power systems for promising nuclear tugs (including for the Martian flight complex) has been solved:
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-05.pdf
Experience and prospects of launches of small spacecraft from the Plesetsk cosmodrome:
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-06.pdf
Calculation of ballistic flight path options for a manned expedition to Mars (2049-2050):
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-08.pdf
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/04-2021/04-07.pdf
Russian manned Soyuz spacecraft use orientation engines repeatedly:
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-04.pdf
The fundamental problem of developing high-temperature converter power systems for promising nuclear tugs (including for the Martian flight complex) has been solved:
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-05.pdf
Experience and prospects of launches of small spacecraft from the Plesetsk cosmodrome:
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-06.pdf
Calculation of ballistic flight path options for a manned expedition to Mars (2049-2050):
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-08.pdf
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Big_Gazza- Posts : 4912
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kvs wrote:Thanks for the information. Fuel density difference of 833 vs 755 kg/m3 is substantial and demonstrates that naphtil is not a
a kerosene but a different hydrocarbon.
Fuel tanks with naphtil can be 10% smaller which saves on weight or alternatively you get more total thrust and thus higher payload
out of an identical rocket. The lower carbon deposits on engines is a big deal as well.
Very interesting. Naphil density is nearly as high as Syntin (851 kg/m3), a synthetic kerosense analog that the Soviets used to boost lift capability of the Soyuz-U2 but was discontinued post-collapse due to the high costs of manufacture. I wonder if Roskosmos will go ahead and squeeze extra performance out of the Soyuz-2 booster by re-proportioning the fuel and oxidser tanks?
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Big_Gazza- Posts : 4912
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Scorpius wrote:
energia.ru is blocked here in the Great Southern Penal Colony...
kvs- Posts : 15870
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Big_Gazza wrote:kvs wrote:Thanks for the information. Fuel density difference of 833 vs 755 kg/m3 is substantial and demonstrates that naphtil is not a
a kerosene but a different hydrocarbon.
Fuel tanks with naphtil can be 10% smaller which saves on weight or alternatively you get more total thrust and thus higher payload
out of an identical rocket. The lower carbon deposits on engines is a big deal as well.
Very interesting. Naphil density is nearly as high as Syntin (851 kg/m3), a synthetic kerosense analog that the Soviets used to boost lift capability of the Soyuz-U2 but was discontinued post-collapse due to the high costs of manufacture. I wonder if Roskosmos will go ahead and squeeze extra performance out of the Soyuz-2 booster by re-proportioning the fuel and oxidser tanks?
Napthil must be a result from the research that resulted in Syntin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerosene
I think the only link to kerosene is that it is some sort of cycloalkane species as this class in the form of naphthenes is part of the kerosene mixture.
Hence the name naphtil.
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lyle6- Posts : 2600
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IDK, sounds like a good pitch for a DoorDash for cannibals.Big_Gazza wrote:
If not, the Holy Musk, God of Exceptionalist Innovation, could do it tomorrow. The rotted corpse of the "pioneer" would safely touch down on the Martian wasteland, for about 3 microseconds, before the impact vapourises him/her into a cloud of dust and steam.
Actually, I think this will be the fate of anyone dumb enough to ever step foot onto a future hypothetical Space-ecks manned Mars misison. Their ideas for "Red Dragon" is utter nonsense and don't get me started on that sub-orbital troop carrier he's trying (and failing) to build for the Pentagram
GarryB- Posts : 40560
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Join date : 2010-03-30
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energia.ru is blocked here in the Great Southern Penal Colony...
Same in NZ, but...
Folder with PDF files via proxy server
List of proxy servers you can use (and their current speed):
http://free-proxy.cz/en/web-proxylist/country/RU/all/ping/all
Choose one and put the blocked address in the search box and click the button to launch...
Big_Gazza and kvs like this post
thegopnik- Posts : 1831
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Scorpius wrote:Russia has developed a technology for creating closed ecosystems for space based on the methane processing cycle:
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/04-2021/04-07.pdf
Russian manned Soyuz spacecraft use orientation engines repeatedly:
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-04.pdf
The fundamental problem of developing high-temperature converter power systems for promising nuclear tugs (including for the Martian flight complex) has been solved:
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-05.pdf
Experience and prospects of launches of small spacecraft from the Plesetsk cosmodrome:
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-06.pdf
Calculation of ballistic flight path options for a manned expedition to Mars (2049-2050):
https://www.energia.ru/ktt/archive/2021/03-2021/03-08.pdf
pdfs wont open
kvs- Posts : 15870
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Get them via Garry's proxy link and they open fine.
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