Russian special military operation in Ukraine #48

AMCXXL wrote:Supossed russian losses in the war against NATO

This is nothing after 18 months+ of combat over a very sophisticated air defence network. S-300, Patriots, IRIS, etc...

Compare this to the coalition losses over Iraq in GF1 who in a month lost 75 aircraft ‒ 52 fixed-wing aircraft and 23 helicopters.....

his is nothing after 18 months+ of combat over a very sophisticated air defence network. S-300, Patriots, IRIS, etc... wrote:

Only that VKS does not fly deep into Ukrainian territory. If they did this, the losses would be much greater. They don't fly because Ukrainian air defense is still dangerous.

It cannot be said that VKS gained air superiority over all of Ukraine. Still, Ukraine has many AD assets. This can also be seen during cruise missile attacks, etc.AD is still active although it can't do much during missile attacks. Still, the VKS doesn't fly deep into 404 territory.

Tolstoy wrote:

AMCXXL wrote:Supossed russian losses in the war against NATO

Bull! We never lost 3 Su-35

and how many ?

I think at least two one at the begining near Kherson and other in Bryansk , the other could be Su-27

Arrow wrote:

Only that VKS does not fly deep into Ukrainian territory. If they did this, the losses would be much greater. They don't fly because Ukrainian air defense is still dangerous.

Yes this is that FRONTAL AVIATION means, aviation that operates just arround the front line

for deep strike Russia has missile troops

for deep strike Russia has missile troops wrote:

They use expensive cruise and ballistic missiles for this purpose. If the Ukrainian AD did not exist, they would have sent tactical aviation with cheaper air-to-ground missiles or guided bombs. Additionally, they could send a Tu-22M3 with bombs like in Syria. However, AD's Ukrainian assets do not allow this. The point is that here there is often an erroneous statement that VKS has achieved air superiority over Ukraine, which is not true. Only in the frontline zone.

Arrow wrote:
They use expensive cruise and ballistic missiles for this purpose.

and $1,000 drones

Arrow wrote: However, AD's Ukrainian the whole western world assets do not allow this. The point is that here there is often an erroneous statement that VKS has achieved air superiority over Ukraine, which is not true. Only in the frontline zone.

which fo 4 levels of air superiority do you mean?[/quote]
[/quote]

Backman wrote:

Largely ceremonial role, as CIS alliance is nowadays. It carries no military power, whatsoever.

You still think he was in jail then ? And now he's been released and taken a post at the CIS ? Just bc he took this post doesn't even mean that he is out of the military either.

We dont know yet about Russian plans regarding CIS. Perhaps it will get more real with nato constant expansion and open confrontation?

ALAMO wrote:Just to sum up, here is a standard T-80BV being used in theatre.


Factory made modernization including all around anti drone ERA panels, top coverage etc.

so T-90m is less perspective than T-80 ?      

Russia will start producing T-80 tanks again

Vladimir Raskhodchikov10:43 10.09.2023

T-80 tanks and its modifications showed excellent performance in battles during a special military operation.

The Russian Federation is preparing to resume production of T-80 tanks from scratch. In recent years, the modernization and repair of already produced machines has taken place. The decision was influenced by the effectiveness of the T-80 during a special military operation. Alexander Potapov, General Director of Uralvagonzavod Concern JSC (Rostec Group of Companies), stated this on the air of “Military Acceptance” on the Zvezda TV channel.

“This is the task, at least the military has set it for us. And we are now actively interacting, working, and exploring these issues with the Ministry of Industry and Trade, because this requires, accordingly, new capacities,” Potapov said.

Watch the new episode of the program “Military Acceptance. T-80BVM, updated "Alyosha"" on the website of the Zvezda TV channel, as well as in the SMART.TV application. You will see how the T-80BVM tank has changed after the SVO-inspired modernization. You'll also learn how the tank's guidance system allows you to shoot on the move and why the fastest tank is also one of the most stealthy

https://tvzvezda.ru/news/2023910836-TUaTV.html

Alamo wrote:
And something that is cited to be second Ch2 knocked out.

https://t.me/c/1638135777/20233



BUT it might be the first one, only with newly destroyed friends assisting. I am not sure.

it was the one where all the crew happily left the tank  singing bandera anthem. Then they told everything with spicy details to X-/Reddit warrriors?

The turret is blown off same style and facing the same direction.
On the other hand, there was no destroyed car in front of it.
It proves nothing, the car could have been destroyed later.

And about T-80s, those have some clear advantages in cold climate.
I guess that in case of war, Russkie can't ignore existing stocks of stored T-80, which means they will have hundreds - if not thousands - of them back in the ranks anyway.
Restarting production won't be a bad idea, considering that the tank has quite an impressive power surplus, and was designed with a high reverse speed of 30+ km/h from the beginning. Both means that it can be up-armored easily, and its modernization won't require changing the engine and gearbox as it is for T-90M.

IMO it's more about producing t-80BVM, which is just upgrading old tanks rather than producing new ones from scratch.

I looked at the film of this "second" Ch2, and I guess it is the second indeed.
The first one was destroyed in front of a small slope, heavily forested. Deforested actually considering the intense shelling, but there were definitely a lot of trees in a background, and a slope of some low hill.



The second one - terrain in the background is flat no hill slope. Considering the perspective, this hill could have been in some distance before it as a car drives, but no - all area is flat and hardly any bushes observed.





Screens are put according to a car drive direction.

99% we have a second killed Ch2, with the same style turret cooked off.

Backman wrote:

caveat emptor wrote:

Backman wrote:General Surovikin was elected chairman of the CIS coordinating committee on air defense issues. All representatives of the CIS Council of Defense Ministers voted for his candidacy. Kornukov was in the same position whilst still commander-in-chief of Russian Air Force.

Largely ceremonial role, as CIS alliance is nowadays. It carries no military power, whatsoever.

You still think he was in jail then ? And now he's been released and taken a post at the CIS ? Just bc he took this post doesn't even mean that he is out of the military either.

He went from commanding a military to being dumped to paper pushing gig in completely meaningless and stillborn organization nobody gives a shit about

Of course he was in jail

Only reason he isn't dead (as he should be) is thanks to social media slurping his balls, it would be bad PR

Says a lot about current day when backstabbing traitors like him can just walk free

He was covering for scum who murdered his own pilots, by any law or justice he should have hanged long ago

Isos wrote:IMO it's more about producing t-80BVM, which is hust upgradinf old ranks rather than producing new ones from scratch.

ZVEZDA is an official media outlet of MoD . If they said the new production is ordered this mean is it about new tank production. As for upgrades AFSIK  there were 2 batches of T-80, the recent one pretty recently

@Alamo

 - well in short T-80 seems to have better potential then T-90 otherwise why military would require restarting production? Omsk as originally manufacturing T-80, now has been upgrading for a while. Let me guess where production restart will go to...

In this latest Voyennaya Priyomka episode there was a part when they said clearly that no new production was going on, only refurbishing.
Russkie have a few thousand of these tanks in storage.
New production of some subsystems is clearly needed to pimp those up, no doubt about that.
So if they are to make some aggregates and parts anyway - it might surely end up with new tanks rolled out.

ALAMO wrote:In this latest Voyennaya Priyomka episode there was a part when they said clearly that no new production was going on, only refurbishing.
Russkie have a few thousand of these tanks in storage.
New production of some subsystems is clearly needed to pimp those up, no doubt about that.
So if they are to make some aggregates and parts anyway - it might surely end up with new tanks rolled out.

but the question is why? Armata is better anyway then both T-90 and T-80 ... you need skilled workers and production capabilities interesting problem. "Alyosha" effect?

Yes, but is expensive.
People sometimes are living in delusion about "the horde Russian army" missing the fact, that the situation changed some 180 deg in the last 30 years.
Russia is not the Soviet Union.
It is half the inhabitants.
Doesn't have WarPac allies.
Was outgunned and outnumbered by NATO multiple times, in both the manpower, number of weaponry, and economics.
This is why since the early 00s, they put the money on the technologies.
And general mutual destruction assurance.
As the West was still drunk with its own colloids, they hadn't spotted the fact.
Being busy with propaganda humiliating Russkies, they have missed the technological breakthroughs happening there.
So before the 240222, Russian army was heading for relatively small forces with a high technological saturation.
I will only remind you, that the Russian army was cut down to only some 1.1 mln, and were seriously considering going under 1mln.
High-end Armata platform was one of the examples, but not only.
They have scaled down the navy to assure area denial only, carrying shit about blue water presence.
It was logical, as they had all the major trade routes located on land, or closed seas they could control having no navy at all.
Airforces number was down and down ...
End effect was supposed to be a +/- 1 mln high professional and heavy technologically advanced army capable or rapid deployments of limited scale. With highly sophisticated weapon systems capable of precision strikes all around the globe, 24/7/365.
But the 240222 changed that all.
They have been forced to clash with heavy and strong conventional army, that is extremely low on casualties sensitivity.
Carrying human waves tactics, and supplied by a combined west with all the warehouses they could find.
That forces a rapid change in the both concept and armed forces composition.
Soon we will face a heavily armed Russian army of 1.5 mln.
That requires thousands of weapons, making a cost factor crucial.
Russkie have a decade when they will be well ahead with any single weapon system, which is an obvious denial for westerners.
Not a single county in NATO will be able to field an equivalent of Armata family till mid 30s, which is sure.
They will pimp up the existing gear, pretending that Ch2 with old and already lagging behind gun is another gamechanger.
Or changing the name od Leopard to Panther, simulating that making it even more expensive will sole the things.
Or giving some next letters to old&worn M1 concept.
When Ruskie will field a cheap air defense that won't be absurdly cost ineffective against a toy drone costing $200, NATO will masturbate of how the 40 km range mid-tier systems with missiles costing $300k a piece are gamechangers. Or even better, how they can shoot own a $2000 Geranium with $1mln PAC-Something Patriot high tier system.
It will be an interesting decade, that's for sure.

Play it again Sam?

Russian troops destroyed three landing boats of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the Black Sea

Russian Defense Ministry: three landing boats of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Willard were destroyed in the Black Sea

13:40 10.09.2023(updated: 13:46 09/10/2023)


MOSCOW, September 10 - RIA Novosti. Russian naval aviation discovered three US-made high-speed boats with Ukrainian landing groups in the Black Sea, the boats were destroyed, the losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces amounted to 36 people, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported on Sunday .
“In the Black Sea at night, naval aviation discovered and destroyed three US-made Willard speedboats with landing groups of special operations forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine with a total number of up to 36 military personnel,” the Russian military department said in a report.

https://ria.ru/20230910/spetsoperatsiya-1895325739.html

ALAMO wrote:Yes, but is expensive.

i basically agree with all your arguments, though I was not clear enough.
Im concerned not about costs only but also   about timing and overall costs but since MoD ordered they surely calculated and know what they need.
1) T-80 wont start immediately you need some years to restart

2)  retooling factory and taking more workforce takes time too..


so new T-80s can start rolling in 3-4 years



bTW As for Panther is reworked Leopard then reworked  -T-80 with the new turret  tank be called Zveroboy      

Actually, as we all can see, they are pumping out T-80BVMs at a steady rate.
Which already required some new parts and systems, and tooling, and all the stuff.
And finally - the staff
Sure they had tons of parts/systems stored, but if they will end up with serious digits of tanks in ranks, those will be there for the next 30 years.
This will obviously deplete the storage of spare parts and surely requires establishing a new production.
This war has proved one more thing that hardly anyone would imagine.
West is impotent, in general.
Lacks production cap, technology and ... money!
It is 19 months into a war.
And as I said, not a single new Euro made tank was rolled out of the production lines.
We talk Brits, Germans, French and Italians - all produced tanks in the 90s.
We talk Poles, Czechs, Croats - all produced tanks in 90s!!
Not a single Eurofighter, nor Rafale ...
Every single new piece delivered to European armies, are made in ... Korea.
It is an overall fall. Total and absolute deindustrialization.
That all combined means, that T-90M or T-80BVM is as good as it is now - both won't face a serious competitors on the battlefield.
And if will - a swarm od Lancets will take care of those.

Use of Russian MLRS Smerch cluster shells in Ukraine. After the Ukrainian army began using cluster munitions, the Russian army also began using cluster munitions. The video shows rare footage of a Russian Smerch MLRS striking with cluster shells, presumably in the village of Urozhaynoye, Zaporozhye region. At the end of the video, footage of the use of incendiary ammunition is also shown.

Leopard 2A6 ambushes 2 Russian T-72s of unknown modification and scores a direct hit on the side of one with an HE shell. Then both T-72s retreat intact and under their own power. Probably the hit tank had its sights and sensors knocked out or they didn't know where the fire was coming from exactly.

And this is the culmination of all that propaganda and hype. The height of the Leo 2's success in the Ukraine so far that we know of. Finally, a victory. Damaging a single T-72 and forcing it to retreat for field repairs.

thegopnik wrote:Use of Russian MLRS Smerch cluster shells in Ukraine. After the Ukrainian army began using cluster munitions, the Russian army also began using cluster munitions.

No, both sides have been using this ammo since 2014.
Stop that finally, as it is getting annoying and boring.

Edit : I was nit addressing that to you in person I only can't get this denial concept at all

Backman wrote:You still think he was in jail then ? And now he's been released and taken a post at the CIS ? Just bc he took this post doesn't even mean that he is out of the military either.

You have a problem with reading comprehension. Regardless if he was in jail or not, this position is ceremonial. 
They can keep him in military in trivial positions untill retirement. 
Akin to what happened to Marshals of Soviet Union 
(Budyonny,Voroshilov and later Timoshenko) at the beginning of the WW2. They were relegated to some bs positions of troop inspectors or some such, without any real power.

ALAMO wrote:We talk Poles, Czechs, Croats - all produced tanks in 90s!!

Croats never produced tanks. In the 90s Đuro Đaković only assembled some M-84 from the parts that were left over when the war started. Majority of the parts and systems were not produced in Croatia at all ( steel and some electronics in Slovenia, gun and engine in BiH, hydraulics and transmission in Serbia, etc). Tank was made as a collaboration of many companies throughout Yugoslavia and Đuro Đaković was only an integrator, place where final assembly happened.

Sure you are right, yet it was a tank production.
And some modernization programs, too.
Italians haven't made their tanks on their own.
KMW was using subcontractors too.
Poland produced last Euro made tanks back in the 00s, but used multiple suppliers as well. Including the French, Germans, Slovenians ...
And even that is GONE.

Evidence of partisan groups inside Ukraine murdering soldiers and mercs on leave from the front.

Arrow wrote:It cannot be said that VKS gained air superiority over all of Ukraine. Still, Ukraine has many AD assets. This can also be seen during cruise missile attacks, etc.AD is still active although it can't do much during missile attacks. Still, the VKS doesn't fly deep into 404 territory.

Russia has a few options when dealing with Ukrainian AD ,they can either a) destroy the launchers using various means (drones, Anti radar missles, Kinzhal with sat targeting etc. OR they can leave the launchers in place and force the West to keep sending absurdly expensive missiles to shoot down cheap drone. They have silver bullets to use when they really need to destroy a high value target. And for other targets they can use saturation which will hit the target and impose a MASSIVE AD cost on the west that is already very short of missiles.