Russian special military operation in Ukraine #50

MMBR wrote:
So my question is, why are stocks of vehicles being used up so much?

Because the demand is high and the Russians prefer to lose heavy metal over the blood of their men?

As we've observed through the majority of the conflict, the Russians are many times more mechanized, fire multiple times more ammunition and train much more heavily than their counterparts. Naturally they lose more heavy equipment both from combat and virtual (wear and tear) attrition.

This material advantage directly translates into a massive snowballing advantage in combat power over the Ukrainians who have suffered a dismal 10:1 loss exchange to the Russians.

In videogame terms, its like playing against some trust fund kid who has unlimited funds to whale on the most broken gear while you have to play free until the paycheck comes. He also doesn't need to go to work so he's constantly sharpening and improving so you're constantly getting skill issued everytime you play against him.

Furthermore the old equipment has still a role to play now.

In the future, maybe even with upgrades it will have less utility.

The role of the reserves are to be used in times like this. This will also allow slowly to build new reserves in peacetimes.

lancelot wrote:
Claiming the armor of the Leopard 1 is 70 mm 'at its thickest' like they did is also a huge red herring. The Leopard 1 has basically the same protection as an APC. The truth is a 30 mm autocannon can penetrate it in nearly all of its surface. I would rather be in a T-62 to be honest.

As for reactive armor, they can like get Kontakt-1, if not of their own production, the Poles have a roughly similar equivalent. But like you said this  is a waste of time on the Leopard 1 since even an autocannon can penetrate it and the Kontakt-1 will be of zero help in addressing that. Like you said what they should be doing is adding cage armor to it. At least it would offer some protection against HEAT shells.

ERAWA is much better than vanilla Kontakt-1, but there must be something behind it to cover. It disrupts cumulative stream by a solid factor, but even it that would be 70% reduction, 70 mm behind will be pierced anyway. No double warhead is needed here.
Considering cages, I was more focused on antidrone application.
Those tanks will be devastated by the drones, having a roof protection of only 8 (EIGHT !sic!) mm steel plate, with only ammo magazine and driver's seat covered by an astonishing 30 mm.
There is one more thing worth mentioning, as the western shitstream is already busy proving how those tanks are not pathetic, and "Russkie are using T-55!!!" ...
At the moment, propaganda spin is busy pretending that it was all fine with the tank, as it was a LIGHT one.
It is quite funny, as it is heavier than T-62, which is armed with an enormously more potent gun. T-62s thinnest armor is DOUBLE the L1s, while the thickest is THREE TIMES of it.
If we add BDD to that, it gets the weight of L1, having around QUADRUPLE the protection level
Sometimes the propaganda made to cover the absurdity of this situation runs so far from the common sense, that became absurd itself.

@ hole
I agree about t72 and t80s but this operation has seen also the use of older t55 and t62, even if not as main battle tanks (but they are still not worse than the leopard 1).

It is quite a tricky perspective.
What does "not worse" mean?
Both 55 and 62s are better armored.
62 is better armed.
As long as both won't be seriously upgraded with night vision systems, the fire control of L1A5 is superior.
So the real question is what are those tanks supposed to do on the battlefield?
Russkie are using them as artillery. Both are much more resilient rather than typical SPG, and both will do better when strucked with counter battery fire.
And both can deliver quite effective, 80s mod HE ammunition up to the range of most 122 mm cal.
It is an effective niche where those can be placed, utilizing warehouses full of 40+ y/o ammunition stock.

While Ukrs are forced to use L1s as a regular tank.
Even the Slovenian M55s are a class better.
It will be decimated.
Poor khokhol souls are already doomed.

higurashihougi wrote:Warning: This post is merely used for entertainment, consists of purely comical content.    

https://english.nv.ua/nation/ukrainian-armed-forces-we-want-enemy-to-be-hungry-cold-and-have-no-desire-to-fight-50369533.html

‘We want them to be cold & hungry’ — Ukraine’s plans to make winter intolerable for Russian invaders

The Ukrainian Armed Forces will try to "disrupt" Russian logistics routes during the winter to make it impossible to supply weapons, food, and other necessities, Volodymyr Fityo, Ukraine’s Ground Forces Command spokesperson, said on national television on Nov. 19.

"Our main task is to ensure that everything that happens now helps the Ukrainian army and, conversely, harms the Russian invaders. We want them to be hungry, cold, and have no desire to fight," he said, adding that the enemy should expect "surprises from the sky."

The Ukrainians and their "masters" have always tried to project what is happening to them as actually happening to the Russians.

still waiting for a blotch of red paint on Ukraine's map.

The Russian Ministry of Defense managed to return the bodies of dead servicemen during an exchange with the Ukrainian side. State Duma deputy and representative of the parliamentary coordination group on military operations Shamsail Saraliev told RBC about this on November 20 .

Thus, the Russian Ministry of Defense returned 80 bodies of Russian military personnel. At the same time, the Ukrainian coordination headquarters for the treatment of prisoners of war reported the return of 94 bodies of dead Ukrainian soldiers during this exchange.

The exchange itself took place with the assistance and participation of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the coordination headquarters of Ukraine added .
“We are agreeing on wider access for the ICRC to prisoners of war”

The head of the Moscow ICRC delegation, Ikhtiyar Aslanov, talks about the humanitarian situation in the Northern Military District zone, the situation at the Zaporozhye NPP and the search for missing people

The last exchange of bodies between Russia and Ukraine took place in October. Then the Russian side received the bodies of 60 servicemen, and the Ukrainian side received 64 bodies.

Prior to this, in July, as a result of negotiations, 45 Russian military personnel, who were in mortal danger in captivity, were returned from territory controlled by Kiev . The released soldiers were taken to medical facilities for further treatment and rehabilitation.

The special operation to protect Donbass , the beginning of which was announced by Russian President Vladimir Putin on February 24, 2022, continues. The decision was made against the backdrop of an aggravation of the situation in the region due to shelling by the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

https://iz-ru.translate.goog/1608242/2023-11-20/deputat-gosdumy-soobshchil-o-vozvrashchenii-80-tel-voennykh-rf-v-khode-obmena-s-ukrainoi?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Hole wrote:
Taking the experience of the SMO into account, the question arises if the assault gun will make a comeback.

If you are asking me - the answer is : hardly.
Sure 100 or 115 mm ammo can do the job - but won't have the punch of higher caliber. Nor range.
This war is weird.
If that will be the reality of the next ones?

Arkanghelsk wrote:And a border of some sort will be drawn.

Hole wrote:
Russia should just keep the borders with Poland and Romania.
No need to redraw them.

Totally agree.
There is no need of a country called Ukraine, anyway.

By the way, concerning the people that left. Why is it a problem for Russia. Unless those people are refugees in Russia, they are a problem for the host countries in the west and in Poland. Russia does not need to allow them back at the end of the SMO. Problem solved. They will be a problem for the west (and in the case of Poland they can even threaten polish statehood.

Hole wrote:
The western-most regions could be rented to some North-Korean companies and farmers.

LOL it could be a good idea. They did not want the russians they get the north Koreans (as long as it is only temporary and only for some farms)