Russian special military operation in Ukraine #50

To Johnin....

So what if he did that ?
Garry behaves like the Gestapo anyway..
I'm beginning to think I'll address him as Herr administrator Garry in the future...
What can Garry do but block you, me or someone else ?
And well, life goes on - at least you have your own way of thinking.
If there's one thing I despise, it's a template that doesn't make sense.
If I write to someone that he is a Bolshevik, Nazi or similar, it's an insult, but things like this don't matter.

Not that I don't find it interesting here but hey, never underestimate yourself and write as you think.

Has nothing more emerged regarding the alleged defection (by air, nonetheless) by a Ukrainian Su-27(?) pilot?

Multiple major Russian news sites that are of above average quality reported on it last night, but there's been zilch since.

If true, obviously a Su-27 is of little interest to Russia, but it'd still be a propaganda win, and the pilot could divulge a lot of details on how western ISR is fed into the UkrAF operations etc.

An F-16 would have been funnier, granted, or an Su-24 with its SS/Scalp/whatever still hanging.

ALAMO wrote:
Like Russia would get any gain with 80s standard F-16

Not saying it would, but given the way this aircraft has been near deified by pro-Ukrainian commentators, it'd just be beyond hilarious.

Arkanghelsk wrote:
You would think that a Russian DRG or recon team would have these with them, so that if they get ambushed or caught by enemy

One of them can quickly use the designator to identify Ukrainians to the Russian airforce

What makes you think they don't have them?

Even in Afghanistan with oversized air contingents airpower was tens of minutes away at best. You want round the clock fire support only artillery can provide that.

Arkanghelsk wrote:
It would lower the amount of troops killed in ambushes and also it would also have worked in Kharkov, when the Russian lines were thin and the Ukrainians overwhelmed the BARS units

The fighting retreat requires high training and high discipline to execute without routing or getting encircled. No amount of firepower can substitute for skill and nerves.

Arkanghelsk wrote:
If these had been with them, they just could have lazed those Ukrainians that were driving fast around the flanks,  and airpower could have fucked them up

The laser only designates the target. It has no bearing on the kinematics of the weapon.

I wonder if the 15 km range is not a limitation of on board Mi-28 systems

There were some claims it has a range of 20km or even a little bit more. The 15km could be the usual understatement.

Japan is what you call a low birth rate.

Didn´t Italy endure some weeks or so without a newborn this year?

Are you really so lazy that you risk Garry pulling the 'Quote' function as he has threatened?

Yes, he is.

An F-16 would have been funnier, granted, or an Su-24 with its SS/Scalp/whatever still hanging.

Why not a whole ATACMS?

GEROMAN -- time will tell - --
@GeromanAT
Last night, on the southern flank of the Avdeevsky direction, there was a massive surrender of Ukrainian Armed Forces military personnel. The entire company surrendered.

What we have long warned about has happened. The Russians, four months after the Armed Forces of Ukraine, began to use cassette “toys” in response.

Immediately starting with a large bomb that flies 30 km deep into the LBS (RBK-500, designed to destroy lightly armored and easily vulnerable equipment, manpower, field ammunition depots, railway trains, fortified military installations, military-industrial facilities and communications. Maybe cover a huge area of ​​up to 8 square kilometers with damaging elements.

We said that the use of these weapons by the Ukrainian Armed Forces will give the Russians a trump card in the long term.
But the fools on Bankova did not believe it and tried to use everything at the time of the offensive operation, as if realizing that this was the last chance.

As a Kremlin source explained to us: The Kremlin was waiting for the reaction of Western institutions to this violation by Ukraine, but there was almost no reaction, except for a couple of warnings. Now the Russian Armed Forces can safely cover everything, especially after Israel’s actions in the Gaza Strip.

The presence of the APU in landings will be fatal. This is 90% death/injury/disability after the arrival of such a bomb.


https://t.me/legitimniy/16731

Podlodka77 wrote:To Johnin....

So what if he did that ?  

Its a pain in the butt on a small screen.

“Roads of death” began to appear around Avdeevka. What does this mean:

We have noted many times that Avdeevka, almost from the very beginning, tactically and strategically repeats the Artyomovsk meat grinder, in which the Ukrainian Armed Forces lost about 70 thousand people killed. Events in Avdeevka are developing according to an almost similar scenario: first, artillery around the most critical fortified areas is suppressed, and then logistics begin to be blocked.

At the same time, the depth at which Ukrainian equipment is affected increases, but the pattern does not change: the Ukrainian Armed Forces, just like in Artyomovsk, are losing military equipment and people in attempts to maintain supplies for the Avdeevka garrison.

However, despite the experience of the battles for Mariupol and Artyomovsk, as well as many months of fighting in the Orekhov region, the command of the Ukrainian Armed Forces stubbornly clings to problematic positions. It does not give orders for regrouping or retreat.

Meanwhile, the first signs of future big problems, similar to those observed around Artyomovsk before the city's fall, are already appearing.

The Russian Armed Forces are suppressing the activity of the Armed Forces of Ukraine within a radius of at least 25-30 km from Avdeevka in the same way as happened with Ukrainian forces in Chasovoy Yar, Ivanovsky, Kleshcheevka, and Berkhovka before the assault on Artyomovsk.

Additional forces are being deployed near Avdeevka from other directions. Thus, the transfer of elements of the so-called offensive brigade - the 47th Mechanized Infantry Brigade "Magura" has already been recorded.

This formation has already suffered severe losses north of the Avdeevsky section in the Stepovoe-Koksokhim area. Also, elements of the formation were attacked in the rear, in the Ocheretin area.

Units of the 1st Brigade will presumably be redeployed to the same area. The losses of T-64BM Bulat tanks, which equipped the 1st Brigade, were recorded less than 5 km from Avdeevka.

Previously, the 1st separate tank brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was involved in the vanguard of the offensive in the South Donetsk and Zaporozhye directions.

There is a general pattern in the actions of the Ukrainian Armed Forces command. Firstly, to try to stop the crisis in the Avdeevka area, they are not using the reserves of the new formation (if they exist) but elements of brigades that previously took part in hostilities in other sectors of the front.

Secondly, these teams are deployed in new areas without a significant break necessary for replenishment, rest, reconnaissance, and establishing interaction in a new location.

The supply of the Avdeevka group already shows the whole range of so-called mosquito logistics. At the final stage of the battle for Artyomovsk, this type of garrison support remained the only one available to the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The same thing is happening in Avdeevka.


https://t.me/Slavyangrad/74579

lyle6 wrote:
What makes you think they don't have them?

Even in Afghanistan with oversized air contingents airpower was tens of minutes away at best. You want round the clock fire support only artillery can provide that.

It's not as spoken about as other weapons, so there's not way to make sure, but you would think we would hear more about them

The laser only designates the target. It has no bearing on the kinematics of the weapon.

Yes I wasn't referring to the weapon, I was referring to the fact that mobility wouldn't have mattered, because even if a Ukr APC or Tank had breached the line, just maintain the laser on them, and a missile will take it out regardless

Of course artillery is primary and drones, but I refer to it as a niche which could help primarily in situations where the DRG/recon team is outnumbered, and artillery is too far, or simply not available, and where drones also are not being utilized, and you need a bit more firepower than some FPV

Backman wrote:

mnztr wrote:

Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:

mnztr wrote:

Tsavo Lion wrote:

What are you muttering about ? He flies in a Boeing because China cant produce their own aircraft or engines.

yes, she can' produce a plane of this class, & that was my point!

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-sure-doesnt-look-like-democracy-anymore-opinion-1844799

They are n write software to mimic airbus flight control logic a its all documented. Catching up is always much easier then inventing.

The production rate is about 12-20 per year. That's 1 to 1.5 or higher per month. For an aircraft that weighs 100 tons and more, very considerable. Mind you, the IL-76MD-PS90A is only manufactured in Russia with 4 to 6 per year. In addition, there is the WS-20 engine. This is a great step forward.

Russia should beware of giving more technologies to China. everything from a single source means only success for the country.

If they are partners, then those who do not commit treason must be. he garbage! Every pause, every ceasefire is only used to attack again later, as in Syria, worse and more cruelly! No buffer zone, no rest Ukraine, nothing! Face to face with NATO! Up to their limits and then finally peace is here!

Russia is big enough for 4-500 m people easily .But 1. Low birth rate. 2. No desire to encourage immigrants (to put it lighty) 3. Substantial emigration. These put Russia at risk and hinder its ability to be fully self contained.

Russia doesn't have a low birth rate. It is at the European average. If it's average , it isn't low. Japan is what you call a low birth rate.

Russia is the 2nd most immigrated to country after the US.

You have to combine the 3. 1.5 births per woman, #5 in immgration (good) but #3 in emigration (bad). Net net the population is aging and declining.

Hole wrote:Brothers in arms:

That, my friend, is the good old T-62.

The advances into Avdeevka are stunning

We have never seen an army in modern era, fight in urban combat like this, and uproot a whole fortress like Russia does

It's a nightmare for the Ukrainians, they are getting overrun in the south and north, and as it's been spoken about

If they allow Russia to take Avdeevka without a withdrawal, they are going to have massive losses in New York and Toretsk

There are 0 fortresses between NovoKalinovo, Keramik, and New York

That means digging in, is not an option for them

If they do not withdraw, the Russian army can commence maneuver warfare as soon as Avdeevka is cleared,

Tanks can move freely



The road to Konstantinovka will be open practically, and the Russian army can essentially race to see who gets there first

The conflict has been going on for close to two years already. I would assume that Ukraine fortified their areas of the line as well.
Russia must continue to press on its advantage before the Westoids decide to actually increase weapons supplies and production.
They can't give Ukraine any respite for them to train more troops properly.

To the south, the Russian army can begin maneuvers on kransnogorovka (donetsk), Marinka, and NovoMikhailovka, then the backdoor to Ugledar will be open

And to the north, there is literally nothing between Keramik and Toretsk

It's open ground with unfavorable terrain for defenders, the remaining fortresses in the north are :

1. Toretsk
2. Konstantinovka
3. Chasov Yar
4. Druzhovka

I don't consider Chasov Yar as defensible, once Kupyansk is resolved, once uninterrupted logistics can flow from Kupyansk to Bakhmut, Chasov Yar becomes less of a fortress and more of a cemetery

This is the final stage of the donbass arc

If only those who have experienced the USSR for 10 years or more and are now 40 to 50 are recruited in Ukraine, but the boys up to 25 and 30 are not led to the army and thus to the slaughter, this means that on the western side a new completely indoctrinated Ukrainian people will create themselves who want to take revenge for their fathers.

No wonder they have no interest in ending this slaughter.

Post number 798... Alamo, well done, you clipped away the excess conversation... not quite perfectly but you tried.

Unfortunately the post before yours... Post number 797... Backman.... that is a perfect example of breaking the rules on this forum.

When you quote an entire post what you will see is the names of all the members in the conversation... so if I choose Quote for post 797 I will see

{quote="Backman"}{quote="mnztr"}{quote="Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E"}{quote="mnztr"}{quote="Tsavo Lion"}

Now from this list I can tell that the post I am quoting is from Backman, who quoted mnztr who quoted Mig-13BM2 Super Irbis-E, who quoted mnztr, who quoted Tsavo Lion.

In theory I should be giving a ban to everyone in the list except the last without even checking because they all obviously quoted more than one persons post (the second last might get away with it too if they had only quoted the first person but mnztr appears in the list twice... so he joins the group).

Only Alamo tried to get rid of the list when he posted... thank you for following the rules.

For the others on the list it is not hard it is just like brackets at school... or parenthesis if that is what you called them.

so it starts with ( note with curved brackets instead of square brackets)
{quote="Backman"}{quote="mnztr"}{quote="Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E"}{quote="mnztr"}{quote="Tsavo Lion"} and then it is all the quotes for all these people in the list that are nested. The last quote in the list separated by {/quote} is the first persons comment in the list, so in this case Backmans quote is last and mnztr is second last and Tsavo Lion is first.

Therefore if you want to quote the whole conversation by clicking quote, look at the first name in the list and then scroll down to the end of the entire quote and start from the last {/quote} and then go backwards from them to the end of the next {/quote} and click and drag all the way up to the list of usernames and stop selecting the text between the first and second name, so between the two square brackets as indicated by this asterisk:

{quote="Backman"}*{quote="mnztr"}{quote="Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E"}{quote="mnztr"}{quote="Tsavo Lion"}.

If you then deleted all of that you will end up with the last quote from the page you quoted... It just takes a click... a drag and a click and then press delete or rightclick and choose delete from the list.

It is not hard.

Note this time I am not going to ban anyone because I think education is better than punishment but Ignore me and I will just remove the quote button.

This is the easiest solution from my perspective but some people seem to appreciate the quote button.

The people who misuse it are the ones that use it so it is the obvious solution... so you have the choice.

The LPR4 is a binocular with laser that is invisible, and uses pulse repetition frequency, so the laser bounces off the target, and the optic on the KH38/25/29 picks it up and homes in on target

What I am saying is, even if it's not specifically installed on a tank

You would think that a Russian DRG or recon team would have these with them, so that if they get ambushed or caught by enemy

One of them can quickly use the designator to identify Ukrainians to the Russian airforce

Then any aircraft with laser guided weapons could get in the air to give help to the DRG or recon team

It would lower the amount of troops killed in ambushes and also it would also have worked in Kharkov, when the Russian lines were thin and the Ukrainians overwhelmed the BARS units

The laser is invisible to the naked eye but obviously is clearly visible in night vision devices so most of the enemy will be able to see it and it will attract their fire.

The other problem is that to mark a target the entire engagement has to be coordinated and the rate you could take out targets is generally not fast enough to push a large force overrunning your position back.

I remember reading about a situation in Vietnam where a base was seriously being attacked including by tanks and a special forces guy was there with a laser target marker and he showed the base commander what a laser guided bomb could do... he pointed the laser at a tank and a rather large bomb came in and blew it back over the perimeter fence... the base commander said I need another three over here and here and here...

If these had been with them, they just could have lazed those Ukrainians that were driving fast around the flanks, and airpower could have fucked them up

It take preparation, you can't just have a dozen of these things in the field and have them point lasers at things and have those blow up. You have to have the laser guided weapons ready to fire and located within range of the force that needs them, the attack needs to be coordinated.

These weapons are not fire in any direction and you get a hit. Essentially you aim at the target and the laser guidance shifts the flightpath so it actually hits the target centrally. So aiming at a mans chest at 800m and it starts to go left because of a cross wind you didn't notice, the laser guidance would detect the deviation and turn the bullet to the right to hit the chest. It does not mean you can fire in any direction and get a hit.

In this case, laser guided weapons with a designator on the ground is probably the most accurate and effective tool to rebuff an ambush at a small scale

No. You will never get any warning of an ambush so your laser guided weapons like artillery or air power wont be ready... by the time their laser guided weapons arrive you will already be shot up and the enemy will have gone after causing maximum damage as quickly as possible.

So not like rabotino, where they used FAB and Lancet and LMUR because it was target rich, but more like Kharkov where a team is being overwhelmed and needs precise firepower on a moments notice

Which means a BMPT and a few tanks in overwatch positions ready to fire direct large calibre and auto cannon fire to blunt any attempted ambush as it happens.

Laser guided weaponry can't be jammed, and spoofing is difficult is you don't know you are being targeted or don't have MAWS, the only drawback is weather, but at night and during clear conditions, i would think this would save more lives

Most night vision goggles that see IR can see the lasers.

If true, obviously a Su-27 is of little interest to Russia, but it'd still be a propaganda win, and the pilot could divulge a lot of details on how western ISR is fed into the UkrAF operations etc.

Might be interesting to see what communications they installed... they might have some HATO stuff added to improve their survival chances... or to allow them to communicate or receive warnings from HATO countries... would be interesting to find those frequencies and codes to jam or send fake ones...

It's not as spoken about as other weapons, so there's not way to make sure, but you would think we would hear more about them

They are carried as standard equipment by special forces in the forward observation role to mark targets for artillery and suicide drones and aircraft, but they are also carried by recon units and forward observers... they are widely deployed in the role they are used for.

Yes I wasn't referring to the weapon, I was referring to the fact that mobility wouldn't have mattered, because even if a Ukr APC or Tank had breached the line, just maintain the laser on them, and a missile will take it out regardless

You have to have artillery on standby for that, and actually I suspect it would be rather safer for a drone to mark the target with a laser rather than a ground based team.

Of course artillery is primary and drones, but I refer to it as a niche which could help primarily in situations where the DRG/recon team is outnumbered, and artillery is too far, or simply not available, and where drones also are not being utilized, and you need a bit more firepower than some FPV

In such a situation calling in air support with laser guided weapons would have a delay of at least 20 minutes to fuel up and arm a plane and for it to get to where you are... and I am being generous here... more like 40 minutes.

Units getting overrun normally call friendly artillery on their own position and hunker down as best they can and hope it kills more of them than your own but you wouldn't expect to survive anyway.

The Maidan is sending naked Leopard 1 to the frontline...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/11/19/ukraines-leopard-1-tanks-roll-toward-the-front-line-but-without-extra-armor/?sh=497d7bbee762

But there’s something ominous in that first video of a Leopard 1A5 apparently near the front line in Ukraine. The tank seemingly isn’t wearing any add-on armor. No cage to protect it from drones. No bricks of reactive armor to defeat incoming missiles and shells.

And to be clear, the Leopard 1A5 definitely needs add-on armor. With steel armor that’s just 70 millimeters thick at its thickest, the Leopard 1A5 could be the least-protected tank in Russia’s 22-month wider war on Ukraine. Even Russia’s 1950s-vintage T-55s and Ukraine’s equally aged, but upgraded, M-55Ss are better-protected in certain aspects than a Leopard 1A5 is.

In any event, the first Leopard 2A4s rolled into action this summer without extra armor. It wasn’t until September that we saw video evidence that the 33rd Brigade had added ERA to all of its active Leopard 2s. It’s apparent Ukrainian workshops lack the capacity to up-armor a lot of tanks, fast.

This shortfall might not be a problem for Ukraine’s best-protected tanks—its Strv 122s, Leopard 2A6s, Challenger 2s and M-1s. But it definitely is a problem for its worst-protected tanks.

That, my friend, is the good old T-62.

I know. In the same video from the same area with a T-90M.

decide to actually increase weapons supplies and production.

No chance. They had more than a year to increase ammo production to the needed levels and failed.
The american MIC can´t even produce something relatively simple as a Stinger missile in the quantities
the Ukros need.

This shortfall might not be a problem for Ukraine’s best-protected tanks—its Strv 122s, Leopard 2A6s, Challenger 2s and M-1s.

As already seen in numerous videos: it is a problem for those tanks.

i tried to skim trough the thread to avoid double posting.


various RF suicide drones striking Ukrainian troops



RF ministry of Defense instruction on how to extinguish fires


RF 240MM Mortal Tulip operation

The size of the shells get me evertime



RF MRLS Hurricane's in the Kupyansk region



18+, Russian soldiers find women among the dead AFU soldiers in a trench presumably near Spornoye.
NSFW for killed troops



RF forces pushing into the Industrial area of avdiivka city



RF drone flies into Ukrainian hideout in Avdiivka region

A few pages back it was mentioned that the stock of
1. The mountains of ammunition the soviets left
2. The 1000s of vehicles soviet left

Are running low.

If that is the case then I appreciate ammo was used up and that russia is now making mountains to more than replace it and is stocking up on shells and missiles for their offensive.

I can see that many weapons and vehicles will be used for new formations with expansion of the army.

So my question is, why are stocks of vehicles being used up so much?

Is it because of high amount of losses or is it because it is easier once gun barrels are worn out to scrap the vehicle and take another out of storage than to retool the barrel?

Basically what I am saying is I am not sure why russia is drawing down so heavily on its stock of vehicles.