Russian Navy: Status and News #6

GarryB wrote:I don't see that happening... we don't know what sort of problems these designs might be having... their propulsion systems might be awful... and most systems wont be compatible with Russian naval systems which would limit their usefulness.

The "problems" most often talked about when bitching about Project 956 was its propulsion. You might have seen it much in keypub fora and others since early 2000s.

My stand on it remains the same then and now. Improper maintenance, unless someone shows me there was something else, which I might have missed.

The fact that the Chinese are using their 4 x 956E and have even kept them and upgraded their destroyers, contrary to the popular bitching about unreliable propulsion of the 956, shows the problem as such is not with the propulsion/design.

To expand a little in simple terms, marine boilers are "delicate" stuff, coz they need to have pure/distilled water feeding the tubes. The quality of the water needs to be checked and maintained at specified levels. Failure of which results in impurities depositing in the tubes. These salt deposits clog the tubes, and over time cause corrosion and even tubes bursting. That's how most of the boiler explosion generally happen.

I don't agree.  Even 24 destroyers available now could not cover the worlds oceans... the west could simply monitor their locations and harrass ships where there is no close Russian navy presence.

True. I never intend to stop at 24 destroyers. You might have also seen me talking much about 11356, 22160, Type-054, 1166, tankers, etc, and bitching about the disastrous 20380/3/5 with approx 15-20 day endurance, which might have also irritated some.

What I want to see is multiple task group led by a destroyer which can be deployed to various theaters. Task grroup will looks like this.
1 x 956 or anyother
1 x 11356 or Type-054A
2 x 22160
2 x PS-500 ASW
1 x 23130 or newer tanker/replenishment

All the above ships have no less than 30 days endurance.
Now as an example for deployment during crisis .... 2 task group along the north and 2 along the south of the Islanders.


Btw, many here are simply not getting the larger picture w.r.t the need for a good fleet. I seriously wonder how many in this forum were actually born in the 70s or atleast in the 80s, though older guys/vets do exist. But most looks like from the 90s, who's only interests, not surprisingly, are in fancy star wars kinda stuffs leaving out the bread and butter.

The US has way more nuclear attack submarines. While they would have losses they would still win on that front.

It is not about who has the most submarines, but more about what Russian ships can do when they consider they are under attack.

A western or even neutral ship wanting to board a Russian ship can't just jump aboard... there are protocols and rules.

Permission needs to be sought and granted... in an hours time a submerged sub could get within firing range for the captain of that civilian ship to get into contact with them, then the ball is in their court... do they want to risk a torpedo or anti ship missile for this?

Most of the time I would say no.

After they do it a few times some surface ship escorts in regions where there are issues will likely be set up.

Wanting China to build 30 Frigates or destroyers for them ignores the problem of crews and port space for those ships, not to mention support ships to keep them operating.

In fact that seems to be their plan. Just look at this BS about selling nuclear attack submarines to Australia.

That was to bully China... Australia don't need an SSN for Australian waters... an SSK would be much much cheaper and more suitable for the role of silent hunter... Aussie SSNs are to operate off Chinese waters pissing off the Dragon.

The Chinese will start to crank up their nuclear attack submarine production soon. But it would take them like two decades to get parity there.
Assuming the Chinese don't mess up the program in the first place.

The combination of more Russian and more Chinese ships and subs is going to be more problematic for the west than most other things they could do.

With UKSK launchers on Russian subs that means 50km+ range ballistic rocket powered torpedoes and 4,500km range land attack cruise missiles, as well as 1,500km range anti ship and land attack missiles is a formidable armament for any submerged sub or corvette.

Every vessel adds a node to the network with sensors and weapons that expand its power and reach...

The "problems" most often talked about when bitching about Project 956 was its propulsion. You might have seen it much in keypub fora and others since early 2000s.

Yes, not much around in public about it during the cold war but obviously everyone inflates issues afterwards, either Russians not happy with Ukrainian engines in ships, or someone just slagging Russian ships.

The Russian Navy was never over funded, and has been through problem periods just like every other branch, but as you mention delicate components requiring strict attention and likely interrupted parts supply and support from the Ukraine due to political issues and of course that is a recipe for problems to happen... a few issues and the reputation sticks.

Btw, many here are simply not getting the larger picture w.r.t the need for a good fleet. I seriously wonder how many in this forum were actually born in the 70s or atleast in the 80s, though older guys/vets do exist. But most looks like from the 90s, who's only interests, not surprisingly, are in fancy star wars kinda stuffs leaving out the bread and butter.

I totally agree, but also think the upgraded Udaloy are rather physically big for what they are... they are called Frigates, but what they should have is a lot of new automation and likely a reduced crew size that would allow the addition of a dozen or two naval infantry that could be carry to board other ships or be placed on Russian registered civilian ships to provide protection in particular regions.

The Udaloys are overkill for coastal patrol vessels and with their upgrades could be made long endurance ships... with some support vessels like the new long range models designed to operate with ships away from Russian ports for long periods they could operate for very long periods away from Russian waters.

The time it will take to get their heavier Gorshkovs into service will be time to get those gas turbines working properly and mature for serial production, then they can start to look at new Destroyers.

36 Frigates and 26 odd destroyers plus about 10-12 cruisers as well as 6 new 40K ton helicopter cruisers and perhaps 2 new CVNs to compliment the Kuznetsov CV and they will be looking very strong... and will be putting the Royal Navy and even the French Navy to shame.

The Russian Navy is going to see a shift in its importance and a growth in its development and focus, but that will also include a shift to find export partners outside the western clan, which also means an expansion of the civilian fleet as well.

Westerners see navies as invasion fleets but to operate globally you need global reach and nothing gives that to you like a strong navy, and the Russian Navy has Corvettes and Subs that would make the commander of carrier groups worried about what he is doing...

Video is from 2nd of March in Zelenodolsk shipyard in Tatarstan.

Construction of one pr.22800 Karakurt and one pr.22160 Vasily Bykov class are visible.

We all saw the articles of that patrol ship being sunk by a Grad rocket but as we learnt it was fake footage. Does anyone see anything wrong with current video?

They hit explosive materials already partially unloaded from it with debris from shot down Tochka-U. That caused three secondary explosions.
To prevent danger of explosion of all munitions left on board it was submerged by Russian sailors.

If it was 'sunk' by the missile, with everything that was onboard there would be no ship, no two other landing ships in port and no Berdyansk port too. Yet they all remain.

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I think by most definitions the photos show the ship is 'sunk' albeit in shallow water.

So yes, to the first part of your question. The answer to the second part is believed to be no as the RuN seem to have scuttled it themselves.

Just what caused the fire is still not clear.

First correction: It was not the ORSK. It was the SARATOV.
Second correction: There was not the Ukrainians (no Tochka and no UAV). It was a carelessness related incident where ammunition that was being unloaded exploded and spread like wildfire.

R.I.P. Saratov

I saw a video where there was an explosion in mid-air and fragments fell into the ship. Then it started burning.
I do not think it was an explosion on board the ship. It looked like an enemy projectile fragmenting.

lancelot wrote:I saw a video where there was an explosion in mid-air and fragments fell into the ship. Then it started burning.
I do not think it was an explosion on board the ship. It looked like an enemy projectile fragmenting.

Post video please.

I did not keep a link. Sorry.
There are videos from RT several days ago, I think it was March 19th, showing Tochka-B debris in Berdyansk from a previous attack.
https://t.me/msgazdiev/778

So they at least tried firing Tochka toward the harbor before.

The video I saw had something fragmenting in the air above the ship. Then the hot fragments fell onto the ship.
I do not know which kind of munition it was. If it was a missile, a rocket, or whatever.

http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/03/ah-no.html
"Per the amphibious ship Saratov, it is a loss and being a very old ship she will be struck down. The ammo compartment exploded due to hit by cassette warhead and it started a massive fire. The fire was dealt with, but this old ships is a goner. "

I agree with him. It looked like some kind of cluster ammunition. Or maybe something which exploded in mid-air.

From what I understood.

Russians flooded the ship to stop the fire. It will be surfaced easily with pumps and send to a crimean shipyard for repairs.

The ships suffered collateral daamages and doesn't seem to have been hit directly.

MOSCOW, March 29. /TASS/.
In 2022, the Far Eastern Shipbuilding and Ship Repair Center (FSCRC) will modernize the Irkutsk nuclear submarine and repair the Admiral Vinogradov large anti-submarine ship, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said at a conference call on Tuesday.
"This year, it is necessary to modernize the nuclear submarine missile cruiser Irkutsk, repair the large anti-submarine ship Admiral Vinogradov, work to restore the technical readiness of the nuclear submarine missile cruiser Tomsk at a permanent base," Shoigu said, speaking about the state defense order for DCSS for 2022.He said that in 2021, FTSSS enterprises repaired and serviced 112 ships and vessels of the Navy. The frigate Marshal Shaposhnikov has also been equipped with a modern effective strike system. "As a result, the specified level of technical and combat readiness of the Pacific Fleet has been ensured," Shoigu stressed.

He said that at today's meeting, the progress in the implementation of the state defense order in 2022 by the enterprises of the FTSSS will be discussed.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14213613

Otvet ASW missile

At Severnaya Werf:

The name appears clearly on the hull: MERKURY (ex-Retivy)

The large trawler on the right side of the picture has just been taken out of the construction building.

TASS; May 17, 23:23

The Baltic Fleet will be replenished with new small missile ships in 2022
More than 30 various exercises planned in the Baltic Sea before the end of the year


KALININGRAD, May 18. /TASS/. New modern small missile ships of project 22800 and 21631 will enter the Baltic Fleet (BF) in 2022, the press service of the fleet reported in connection with the 319th anniversary of the formation of the Baltic Fleet celebrated on May 18.

"The Baltic Fleet is expecting the arrival of new warships by the end of 2022. In particular, we are talking about modern small missile ships of project 22800 Karakurt and 21631 Buyan-M. They have already been launched at shipbuilding plants and are being prepared for testing," - said the press service with reference to the commander of the Baltic Fleet, Vice Admiral Viktor Liina, without specifying the number of ships that will replenish the combat strength of the fleet.
The press service also noted that the Fleet's patrol ship is completing a complex of tests after a deep modernization in the naval testing grounds of the Navy. After their completion, he will return to the fleet and continue to perform tasks in accordance with his intended purpose as part of a formation of surface ships.

As previously reported, the Neustrashimy frigate, which was repaired and modernized at the Yantar Baltic shipbuilding plant in Kaliningrad, successfully carried out artillery and rocket firing in the Baltic sea ranges.

Combat exercises

Until the end of 2022, the Baltic Fleet (BF) plans to conduct more than 30 exercises in the Baltic Sea.

"By the end of the year, ships of the Baltic Fleet will take part in more than 30 exercises of various directions in the Baltic Sea, as well as in international exercises that will be held in various areas of the World Ocean," the press service said, citing the commander of the Baltic Fleet, Vice- Admiral Viktor Lin. They did not specify which countries would take part in the international maneuvers.
It is noted that in addition to ships and support vessels, coastal units, aircraft and helicopters of naval aviation will be involved in the exercises in the area of ​​responsibility of the Baltic Fleet. In addition, the press service said, the ships will make several trips, including to the far sea zone.

According to the press service, the planned intensity of the fleet's combat training in the winter training period increased by 42%. Surface ships and support vessels traveled about 100,000 nautical miles. Currently, several ships of the fleet are successfully solving assigned tasks in the far sea zone. The crews of the fleet's naval aviation flew over 3,500 hours during the winter period, which significantly exceeded last year's figures.

"Karakurt" and "Buyan-M"

Project 22800 small missile ships are equipped with the Caliber high-precision complex with cruise missiles, modern control systems, electronic weapons, radio communications, navigation, electronic warfare and countermeasures, anti-sabotage weapons, portable anti-aircraft missile systems. The ships are intended for operations as part of detachments and groupings of warships, as well as singly.

Small rocket ships (corvettes) of project 21631 (code "Buyan-M") are Russian multi-purpose rocket and artillery ships of a new generation. Designed to carry out patrol service for the protection of the sea area in open coastal waters of the seas, oceans, inland seas and on navigable rivers. The main strike armament (caliber-NK missile launcher) makes it possible to hit not only enemy surface ships, but also ground targets located at a considerable distance from the coastline.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14653357

They need to put the Pantsir-M on all the Karakurts to have better defenses against drone attacks.

Just the first two boats don´t have Pantsir-M.

Pantsir would be good, but squeasing one of those laser defence systems on board sounds pretty interesting too... a ship based version perhaps... one for the front and one for the rear?

The more they make the better and over time technology will improve and their performance will increase while they will get smaller and lighter and cheaper...

Disposal of "Admiral Lazarev" cruiser of the project 1144. I don't know where I would place this post because I don't want to put this ship and its pictures in the columns about "Peter the Great" and "Admiral Nakhimov". Also, I don't see that there is a section "Cruiser of the project 1144".

I wonder if they can transform it into a powered barge full of UKSK and send it in the black sea.

It would be easier (and cheaper) to use the steel from the ship to build a new barge. Or more then one.

Hole wrote:It would be easier (and cheaper) to use the steel from the ship to build a new barge. Or more then one.

I heard their steel is of a very good quality. It would be very sad if they just scrap it and not use it for new ships.

Isos wrote:

Hole wrote:It would be easier (and cheaper) to use the steel from the ship to build a new barge. Or more then one.

I heard their steel is of a very good quality. It would be very sad if they just scrap it and not use it for new ships.

Unlike some ships that were sold for "free", such as the Kiev-class (project 1143) aircraft carriers and the Moscow-class (project 1123) helicopter carriers, the steel from this ship will remain in Russia.

Podlodka77 wrote:Disposal of "Admiral Lazarev" cruiser of the project 1144. I don't know where I would place this post because I don't want to put this ship and its pictures in the columns about "Peter the Great" and "Admiral Nakhimov". Also, I don't see that there is a section "Cruiser of the project 1144".

Even though she is being scrapped, she is still in better condition than the Pr 1164 Ukraina.

It fills me with pain and rage that one of the pinnacles of Soviet naval power projection is being cut up, while it's being replaced by 4  frigates that are taking over 7years  to put into service, or are never finished because Russia lost the technology for marine gas turbines.

This reminds me of Warhammer 40k. The dark age of socialist technology is over, there are a select few irreplaceable tech relics jealously guarded, and every few decades, old dark godless socialist technology (such as the zvezda 1950s marine diesels or the Saturn copy of the Zorya mashproekt ancient 80s turbines) is resurrected by orthodox tech priests and is copied and built like works of tech art at 1-2 relics per  every few years. This is because said orthodox tech priests need the power of the procapitalist Christian god to bring back the lost technology.