Russian Navy: Status and News #6

So they're upgrading Severnaya Verf to not lay down 22350M there?

We'll see next month if he's right, I guess...

New clarifying images of Severodvinsk.
- Akula (supposedly K-328 Leopard, I wonder where the Samara, Brastk and Volk are)
- Sierra I (supposedly B-239 Krab, is it being scrapped?)
- B-90 Sarov
- Uniform AS-13
- X Ray AS-23



In the dry dock, two Delta IVs, supposedly the K-117 Bryansk and the BS-64 Podmoskovye



There is also another Delta IV that should be the Yekaterinhug and there is a Kilo in the floating dock, probably in dismantlement

Well shown how Russia can move its fleet of small missile ships in internal waters between the Caspian, Black, Baltic, White and Barents Seas

Arrow wrote:Well shown how Russia can move its fleet of small missile ships in internal waters between the Caspian, Black, Baltic, White and Barents Seas

What is the maximum ship size/ displacement that these internal canals can accommodate? I hope its enough to allow ships like Project 20386 corvette to traverse, or at least ships that are armed with formidable anti ship/ land attack weapons like the Zircon


Speaking of the Project 20386 corvette , wiki, although not a reliable source, claims that its been canceled, true or just another NATO Nazi propaganda?

It is about water displacement and it is something like 3-4m or so, but in some places it is shallower than that.

These canals are not normally used for patrol boats to transfer between fleets because there are height limits that often require masts and radars to be removed for the trip so it is not something you can zip through and then zip straight back for.

There is a couple of Combat Approved episodes for a Corvette type that is transferred along the canal system and it is quite interesting.

I would say a dedicated patrol barge of relatively shallow displacement could be developed intended for river operations... the certainly do have armed ships for river duties.... they often fit them with multiple rocket launch tubes and the turrets of obsolete tanks like the PT-76 and the T-54/55 turrets with guns mounted for use against shore targets.

Talks of ships carrying UKSK launch tubes would be tricky because such tubes are 10m long.

Something whose launch tubes could be horizontal for carriage and raised up for launch inside a standard shipping crate might be a solution but in such an instance it would be simpler and cheaper to just mount them on trucks or trains rather than block up canals with such things.

Size is restricted according to Volga-Don Max register.
3.6m draft, 141m length and 16.8m beam.

Speaking of the Project 20386 corvette , wiki, although not a reliable source, claims that its been canceled, true or just another NATO Nazi propaganda?

That is just wiki being wiki... if you follow the link they give the article in TASS states:

"It is not expected that it will be commissioned in its present-day version," the source added. "The ship will be completed in accordance with a modified project and will join the Russian Navy in a totally new, more balanced version."

In other words the first of the series needed some changes and these changes will be made before they consider serial production... pretty much the same thing that happened to the Lada class SSKs and the Ivan Gren class landing ships... they built the first version and found it was limited or not properly balanced in terms of capabilities so they fix the problems with a redesign and then start serial production.

Something  the US Navy should have done with their Zumwalt class destroyers and LCS class frigates... instead of making three and 16 respectively before realising they don't work and having to cancel them and put something else into production instead.

And important note on that TASS article the Wiki page also ignored was this one:

TASS has been unable to officially confirm this information at the time of the publication.

ALAMO wrote:Size is restricted according to Volga-Don Max register.
3.6m draft, 141m length and 16.8m beam.

Is anywhere also written the max air draft (or however is called? I mean max height during high water from seas in order to still allow clearance under bridges?

They can remove masts and often have floatation aides to allow ships of greater displacement to pass through the canal system... but it is not for regular traverse operations... this is for moving a ship to a new base before it is finished...

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

ALAMO wrote:Size is restricted according to Volga-Don Max register.
3.6m draft, 141m length and 16.8m beam.

Is anywhere also written the max air draft (or however is called? I mean max height during high water from seas in order to still allow clearance under bridges?

You can see in Military acceptance that, height wise, there is a problem with Don-Volga channel locks. They had to remove radar mast on Karakurt. As for the displacement alone, only Buyan and Karakurt can pass and maybe project 20380 with flotation devices, after their masts are removed.

caveat emptor wrote:

Rodion_Romanovic wrote:

ALAMO wrote:Size is restricted according to Volga-Don Max register.
3.6m draft, 141m length and 16.8m beam.

Is anywhere also written the max air draft (or however is called? I mean max height during high water from seas in order to still allow clearance under bridges?

You can see in Military acceptance that, height wise, there is a problem with Don-Volga channel locks. They had to remove radar mast on Karakurt. As for the displacement alone, only Buyan and Karakurt can pass and maybe project 20380 with flotation devices, after their masts are removed.

Well than maybe that is the next improvement (when and if there will be a need and money for it).

It is not an unsolvable problem.

Improving the waterways by dredging them or increasing the height of bridges will allow larger heavier river boats to operate there too improving capacity for traffic.

The heavy aircraft carrier Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov and the heavy nuclear missile cruiser Admiral Nakhimov will return to the Navy after repairs and modernization in 2024. It is reported by TASS.

“So far, there are no changes in the deadlines for the delivery of these ships to the fleet. The deadlines remain the same - 2024," said Vladimir Korolev, deputy head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation for military shipbuilding, during the Army-2023 International Military Fund.

It is noted that the Admiral Kuznetsov has been under repair and modernization at the 35th shipyard since 2017. As a result, the ship should receive a completely new stuffing, including new cable cables, a deck with a springboard, a power plant, a take-off and landing control system for carrier-based aircraft and navigation equipment. The service life of the upgraded ship will increase by 20 years.

The Admiral Nakhimov TARK has been repaired and modernized at the Sevmash enterprise in Severodvinsk since 1999. The key result of the modernization will be an increase in the strike power of the cruiser. According to information from open sources, it will carry, among other things, 10 universal ship-based firing systems for eight Caliber-NK and (or) Onyx cruise missiles each. In addition, in the future, he will receive Zircon hypersonic missiles.

Earlier, the head of USC Rakhmanov spoke about the upcoming improvements on the aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" , the repair of which began in 2017 after returning from a campaign in Syria. ■

https://tvzvezda-ru.translate.goog/news/20238141256-14AUx.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui&_x_tr_hist=true

It can be interesting.

https://t.me/militaryrussiaru/8067

The Public Council under the Ministry of Defense of Russia visited the Caspian Flotilla

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4741053.html

GarryB wrote:Hopefully they are realising the value of long range accurate gun fire capacity and are doing to the 203mm calibre what they also seem to be doing to the 152mm rounds.

What is the Russian Navy doing to the 203mm calibre? Are you suggesting that big guns are going to make a comeback on Russian Destroyers and Cruisers?

Artillery has proved its worth in Ukraine so probably the Russian Navy has taken note.

I would think someone in the west would understand and think that to be quite natural... the revival of naval guns is not a new idea...

The Zumwalt class was largely designed around a brand new gun that was supposed to revolutionise the navy by having a weapon that could deliver HE payload accurately over 100s of kms to targets far more cheaply than a missile could.

At the moment they are talking about reduced diameter low drag 152mm HE shells with flight ranges of up to 180km... this is a reduced calibre low drag projectile that is wrapped in a sabot to fit the barrel which is released as the round clears the muzzle.... use a bigger sabot for the exact same projectile and load it into a 203mm gun and you have a bigger propellant charge and probably a longer barrel and even more range for zero extra development cost.

Spend a bit more money on a 203mm version and you could have a heavier warhead and perhaps onboard propulsion... namely a ramjet or even scramjet motor to accelerate to higher speeds and maintain those speeds with an idle throttle setting maximising fuel use and eliminating drag so it would coast enormous distances to a target area... perhaps 500km or more.

Russia has already proven the effectiveness of artillery on the battlefield and it would also kill two birds with one stone...

To attack a modern well defended group of ships is the equivalent of trying to attack a military base on land.

Now for use against HATO forces that appears to be pretty easy... Iskander and Smerch and a range of other weapons would be very effective because the west simply does not have the depth and numbers of SAMs to cope with even just a small portion of missiles the Russians already have in service let alone drones.

Use against Russian forces however means most of your missiles and weapons are going to get shot down and you need a surge attack with extra missiles and decoys after careful planning and examination of their forces to find weak spots and holes in their defence. In this case tiny drones have proven the only vector with any real success, but you need small groups of men to operate near enemy positions because such small drones don't have a long range or a significant payload.

For a Russian vessel there will be large numbers of air defence weapons, but on western ships not so many... which means if a Russian destroyer with hundreds of SAMS and dozens of attack missiles of various types including anti sub and anti ship and land attack, has a 152mm gun it can approach the enemy ship to within say 120km or so and start firing its main gun... lets say 50-60 rounds per minute... that is a lot of targets to deal with at one time that would rapidly overwhelm most individual targets... it is essentially a drone swarm.

In 10 years time imagine a cruiser with a couple of 203mm gun turrets with thousands of shells as a normal load that can hit targets out to 300-400km with precision and a reduced payload of perhaps 30-40kgs and 200km range with a 100kg HE payload... that would be devastating.

The first shell they fire might be a loitering drone to monitor the attack so they can decide if follow up attacks are needed.

A Russian official has already mentioned that 152mm guns are going to be introduced for the Navy... most likely to replace the 130mm Bereg coastal defence guns that compliment and support their coastal missile batteries... they have 100mm guns on their corvettes and 130mm guns on their Frigates... it would make sense to have 152mm guns on their Destroyers and perhaps 203mm guns for their cruisers... even if they are fitted to a few ships for naval gun support for the new helicopter carriers and landing ships.

The British learned in the Falklands war the value of such support.

The Americans put their Iowa class battleships back into service and the Soviets put their Sverdlov class ships with their old 152mm guns back into service for the same reasons... which probably seemed a good idea at the time but was probably more problems than it was worth.

To be clear the 203mm stuff is my speculation but they have talked about 152mm for the navy and joint development of guns and ammo is an efficient way to get good weapons into service.

I would think the Russian Army and Navy would be looking at the future of 152mm and 203mm rounds... if you have to reduce weight and calibre to get the extra range then going to a larger calibre and even using full sized 152mm rounds in sabot fired from 203mm gun tubes would be a quick easy long range shell because of the extra propellent in the larger calibre gun will make it go faster and further.

The larger calibre means more room to play with propulsion systems like ramjets etc and for reduced calibre HE rounds of very low drag the bigger calibre gun means more HE delivered further.

Good ideas are sometimes just obvious.

Severnaya Verf will launch the frigate Provorny, restored after a fire, by May next year

Saint Petersburg. September 20. INTERFAX - PJSC Severnaya Verf (St. Petersburg) plans to launch the Project 20385 corvette Provorny, restored after a fire, by May next year, said the general director of the enterprise, Igor Orlov.
“We plan to launch the ship in the next six months, taking into account weather and climatic deviations - until May 2024. The ship is being restored, the customer is waiting for it,” Orlov told Interfax on the sidelines of the international exhibition and conference Neva 2023.

According to the general director of Severnaya Verf, the decision that the ship should be completed without reducing its performance characteristics was made based on the results of a damage analysis with the participation of representatives of science and the customer.

“Today, all the tasks of restoring or supplying new equipment to complete this ship have been resolved, we have no problems in terms of equipment. We are now completing its construction, all the main hull structures have been restored, everything related to saturation has been restored, the installation of the main equipment is underway ", added Orlov.

As reported, a fire on the corvette "Provorny" occurred in December 2021; the ship's superstructure was damaged in the fire. The corvette was planned to be transferred to the Russian Navy at the end of 2022. Corvette "Provorny" is the second ship of Project 20385. The lead corvette of the project, "Gremyashchiy", serves in the Pacific Fleet of the Russian Navy. This ship is armed with Caliber cruise missiles.

The main task of the project ships is to detect and destroy surface targets and submarines, organize landings, protect the coastal zone and escort other ships. Plans were reported to arm Project 20385 ships with Zircon hypersonic missiles.
Severnaya Verf is one of the largest shipbuilding enterprises in Russia, part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC).

source

Warships and submarines of the Black Sea Fleet left the main base of the Black Sea Fleet in Sevastopol and relocated to Novorossiysk and Feodosia. This can be seen in satellite images published in Western media.

At the base in Novorossiysk there are now all serviceable Project 06363 Varshavyanka submarines, two Project 11356 frigates, a patrol ship, five large landing ships and most of the small missile ships. Two project 12700 minesweepers, two small missile ships and one large landing ship moved to Feodosia.

Obviously, such a maneuver is intended to protect the Black Sea Fleet from attack by long-range missiles. It is worth noting that after regular attacks on enemy military airfields , the use of Storm Shadow/SCALP-EG cruise missiles came to naught. The last episode with the interception of these ammunition in the Crimea region was noted on September 26.

Probably, the decision to relocate warships was made in connection with the possible imminent transfer of American ATACMS to Kiev . These ballistic missiles are capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 300 km and can pose a real danger to the Black Sea Fleet.

Let us remind you that on September 13, Storm Shadow cruise missiles damagedBDK "Minsk" and the submarine of project 06363 "Rostov-on-Don", which were being repaired in the dry dock of the ship repair plant in Sevastopol. The Russian Ministry of Defense assured that the ship and submarine will be restored.

https://topcor-ru.translate.goog/39942-korabli-chernomorskogo-flota-perebazirovany-v-novorossijsk-i-feodosiju.html?utm_source=topwar.ru&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

Very little of the Russian Navy in the Med currently. Out of harms way.

Kilo Krasnodar heading for the Baltic.

Kinzhal is way faster than any ship.

A military-technical response to NATO expansion is being prepared on Lake Ladoga - it could become a missile launch site for small missile ships (SMRVs). The Ministry of Defense has carried out comprehensive work to study the possibilities of basing ships and performing combat missions in this water area, sources in the military department told Izvestia. Based on the results of research that took several months, it was recognized that RTOs can operate effectively in Lake Ladoga. Experts note that this is an adequate measure after NATO expansion in the north-west: from here ships can keep Finland at gunpoint. “This is a completely sound military-technical response to the accession of Finland and Sweden to NATO. Lake Ladoga is quite large. During the Great Patriotic War, the Ladoga Flotilla operated there, and after the war various forces were stationed. It is a good idea to ensure that Buyans and Karakurts fire at NATO targets. In addition, this area is not as well known to alliance intelligence as the Baltic bases,” military historian Dmitry Boltenkov told Izvestia.

Navykorabel.ru
04 November 2023

Navy after SMO

No one talks about this openly, but there is confidence that the Russian Navy is currently financed on a residual basis, and, most likely, it will be this way until the end of the Northern Military District.

Here is the data on layings and government contracts for the current year: laid down: corvette project 20385 ("Retivy", ASZ), sea minesweeper project 12700, two medium reconnaissance ships project 03182R, icebreaker project 21880M, medium sea tanker project 21130 and a large hydrographic boat pr. 19920; contracts were signed for torpedo boats, Project 1388N3TM, and sea tugs, Project 23470.

As you can see, warships of the main classes are represented in the list by one corvette of the near sea zone (2350 gross tons). There are no nuclear submarine cruisers, no destroyers, no frigates. The ships laid down earlier, of course, are being built, and the frontline ships are on combat duty and engaged in combat training, but all this is done somehow half-heartedly.

There are no and cannot be any complaints about this. The country is fighting in a land theater, and all efforts and resources must be concentrated on this. However, the SMO will end sooner or later, and then, as one would hope, the fleet will be repaid all its debts.

In pre-war 2021, 14% of the state budget was spent on defense (3.6 out of 25.4 trillion rubles). In 2024, it is planned to spend 29% (10.8 out of 36.7 trillion provided by GDP growth). At the same time, in 2026 (definitely post-war), expenses of 35.6 trillion rubles are planned. If defense spending again drops to 14% (which would be quite logical), in monetary terms it will amount to 5.0 trillion rubles, and taking into account inflation (30% for 2022-2025*) - 3.8 trillion, that is, they will approach pre-war levels.

* 2022 - 12%,
* 2023 - 7% (forecast 6-7%),
* 2024 - 6% (forecast - 4%),
* 2025 - 5% (forecast 4%)

Taking into account that during the Northern Military District, other types and branches of troops (primarily the Ground Forces, Aerospace Forces, Airborne Forces) will be thoroughly equipped with new weapons and military equipment, God himself ordered to spend even though would be a third of the defense budget.

You need to understand that the state defense order is about half of defense spending (the other half goes to maintaining the armed forces). Approximately 2/3 of the state defense order is spent on the purchase of new equipment, the rest is spent on repairs, modernization and R&D. As for the Navy, about 60% of procurement funds can be spent on the construction of ships of the main classes, the rest can be spent on other ships and vessels, ammunition, coastal aviation, BRAV (my assessment, based on purchases by the US Navy and the characteristics of the Russian Navy - A.Sh. ).

Estimated calculations show that the creation of a full-fledged Navy of 205 pennants (12 SSBNs, 24 multi-purpose submarines (APKR), 36 non-nuclear submarines, 4 aircraft carriers with air groups, 8 cruisers (project 23560), 28 destroyers (22350М), 33 frigates (22350 ), 30 corvettes, 6 UDC with AG, 24 BDK) about 10 trillion rubles are needed. in 2020 prices
Based on the given figures (defense expenditures - 3.8 trillion with subsequent annual indexation; the share of the Navy - 1/3, State Defense Order - 1/2, new equipment - 2/3, ships of the main classes - 60%), to create a full-fledged fleet it will take 40 years, which, given the scale of what needs to be done, cannot be called too long. Moreover, this period can easily be reduced to 30 years by increasing the annual defense budget by just a few percent. ■

https://t.me/navy_korabel/246

lancelot wrote:Compare it with similar ships being operated by Canada (Harry DeWolf class) or Norway (Svalbard class). This is much more well equipped.

I would also prefer if it had better air defense. But this is meant to operate in the Arctic in the first place. The threat environment is totally different.

Well Lancelot, I gave up...
Of course, I'm not important, because I am neither Russian nor am I in the Russian VMF, but the events (or rather non-events) in the Russian VMF irritate me far more than the members of the forum.
I think it is nonsense that it is being said that SMO is the cause of the poor construction and delivery of new ships and submarines to the Russian Navy.
And it is not only discussed in this forum. The main problem is in the Russian shipbuilding industry and its cooperatives and not because the SMO.

If it was Sevmash who raised the desired pace of construction, why has everything slowed down now and why, even after 9 years and 3 months, the submarine "Arkhangelsk" has not yet been launched. Here, the fault of the state and the military top is certainly because the production has certainly slowed down because of the SMO.

The Russians need at least 6 more corvettes of project 22385 because the total number delivered to the Russian Navy and those under construction is now 18. I did not include only the corvette of project 20386. There is no talk of laying additional keels for projects 20380/5.
The contract for two more frigates was signed with Severnaya Werf 3 years ago and construction has not yet started. The contract for 6 more project 22350 frigates was not signed this year.
Although the frigate "Golovko" is supposedly about to be put into use, it seems to me that it is rather fast and I am not sure if in such a short time the Russians could demonstrate the reliability of the new gas turbines and reducers. Kudos if they are, but it usually doesn't go that fast.
Russia needs project 885M and non-nuclear project 677 submarines. As for warships, the ideal and only universal ones are corvette 20385 and frigate 22350 platforms. Everything else is pouring water into a perforated bucket.