Russian special military operation in Ukraine #62

@caveat emptor
Sounds cruel but there is a war going on - people die. I think a double tap would probably have sufficed.

But I guess there was a lot of hatred behind that blow. Must have hurt really bad back home.

Russia cannot allow constant attacks on Russia proper as yet another cost of doing business in this war. If there's no serious response, this is what it will be. Russia proper will just be fired on weekly.

I don't see any downside in flattening all of the western embassies in Kiev. The war is in Ukraine. There's a reason why all of the embassies were evacuated completely when the war started. They expected it. You can say that embassies are the territory of the country who owns them but its just not true. Anything inside the borders of Ukraine is fair game in this war

Try and delete FP's bit in order to avoid another ban...

Who attacked Russia ? An American boy ? The American Embassy ? Poland ? The Eskimos ? No it was the American MIC and Neocons .They used territory of another country to launch an attack , using their own forces and equipment . A mirror response or even escalation in this case can be useful . But it must be precise . Russia could , using own forces and equipment , directly attack the MIC on American soil . Attack from another country soil or international waters of space . It can hit MIC staff , it 's factories and Banks and Villas . I bet the average American will be happy about it . Happy that they are not the target .

Looks like storm shadow missed tbh

If so then it gives Russia room on response,

Thing is in a month trump will dump Ukraine and the Europeans cant carry Ukraine

There is that to think about , escalating now would play into their hands

If indeed intel can confirm Trump and Europe will exit the conflict and reduce weapons , then it’s just the last thrashing of a lame duck administration

Which ever way it goes people have high hopes for Trump - unfortunately I don't but hopefully this time I'm wrong!

Arkanghelsk wrote:If indeed intel can confirm Trump and Europe will exit the conflict and reduce weapons , then it’s just the last thrashing of a lame duck administration

It's not

Trump has to publicly disavow all these people and their plans, and commit in advance to immediately repealing all orders allowing long-range strikes the minute he gets into office

If he doesn't do that, then he is in collusion

But even if he does do that, Russia still has to respond and 2 months is a long time in which many things can happen, whether Russia does anything to respond to an act of war or not - but if it doesn't then the enemy will be assured of no limits.

When Trump gets into power, so then he can de-escalate if he wants to. It's not Russia constantly raising the stakes and so Russia has no opportunity to lower the stakes either.

Arrow wrote:

Give it up with Trump. In the US, the president doesn't have much power. Trump will dance to the tune of the Deep State. If he tries something, the next sniper will hit. How much can we repeat this nonsense about Trump giving up on Ukraine.

Trump was voted in with ending the Ukrainian quagmire among other things. War won't end in 2025 but support will wane, rest assured.
Conflict in Europe makes no sense to increasingly isolationist MAGA, especially supporting a EU and Britain that constantly threw the dump on Trump, Vance, Musk and the likes.

Besides it was thanks to Trump 1st mandate that conflict with the nazis was averted back in 2016-18 timeframe. Despite the Donald being up the neck into the swamp at that time.

The Ukrainian Armed Forces found themselves in a new type of cauldron in Olgovskaya Grove, by Andrey Rezchikov for VZGLYAD. 11.20.2024.

The Russian army has completely destroyed the Ukrainian Armed Forces group blocked in the Olgovskoye Grove area in the Kursk region. The area was cleared for several days, and the Ministry of Defence first reported the creation of a cauldron in the grove three days ago. As experts note, this is almost the first classic cauldron since the spring of 2022, when the forces of the DPR People's Militia and the Russian army blocked the Ukrainian Armed Forces and nationalist battalions in Mariupol.

Russian servicemen have completed the destruction of a Ukrainian Armed Forces group in the Olgovskaya Grove area, the Defence Ministry reported on Wednesday. The enemy was blocked by the Sever group of troops. The grove is located in the Korenevsky District of the Kursk Region, approximately 4 km from the village of Olgovka and 13 km from the settlement of Korenevo.

As war correspondent Alexander Kots notes , the Ukrainian Armed Forces made several attempts to break out of the cauldron with large forces, but suffered serious losses.

According to the war correspondent, the Russian Armed Forces cut off the northwestern protrusion of the wedging. At the same time, the Ministry of Defense reported about the cauldron on Sunday. On the morning of November 17, groups of 15-20 militants tried to "break out of the formed cauldron." As a result, 80 militants were killed, 40 were wounded, and another 24 were taken prisoner.

The fact that the Russian army had surrounded and begun to eliminate about 2,000 Ukrainian Armed Forces fighters in the Kursk region was stated by Russian President Vladimir Putin in an interview with journalist Pavel Zarubin at the end of October. In particular, two elite Ukrainian units of the 37th separate marine brigade were surrounded.

As the head of state said, in mid-October, the 155th Marine Brigade of the Pacific Fleet breached the enemy's defenses at a distance of 10 km from the state border and began moving along it. "They acted quite boldly and heroically," Putin noted.

Overall, over the past 24 hours, the Ukrainian Armed Forces lost more than 400 people in the Kursk direction, and another 11 surrendered. Fighting is taking place in the areas of the settlements of Alexandria, Viktorovka, Dar'ino, Lebedevka, Malaya Loknya, Nikolsky, Novoivanovka and Sverdlikovo. In total, during the fighting in the Kursk direction, the enemy lost more than 34 thousand servicemen and a significant amount of equipment, including 215 tanks and 1,190 combat armored vehicles.

Experts noted several features of the operation to clear the Olhiv Grove. As military historian Mikhail Polikarpov recalled, this is almost the first cauldron since Mariupol, when in March 2022, the forces of the DPR People's Militia, together with the Russian army, blocked the militants of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and nationalist battalions in the city.

"There was a corridor in the Olhiv Grove through which the enemy broke through fields and forest belts. Therefore, there was not a cauldron in the literal sense, as in Mariupol, but rather a "pocket" from which the Ukrainian Armed Forces had a chance to exit along a narrow corridor. And when the Ukrainian Armed Forces began to exit along this corridor, they suffered heavy losses," the source explained.

As for the peculiarity of the operation to clear the Olgovskaya grove, the Russian troops acted using the classic method – they surrounded the enemy, but left them with the opportunity to retreat: “In such a case, the enemy troops lose the ability to conduct organized resistance, because everyone wants to escape along this corridor.”

The historian also noted that the formation of a cauldron can force the enemy to resist for a very long time. If the enemy is given a corridor, then the militants are tempted to escape. As a result, this leads to the collapse of the enemy's defense, as well as saving the forces and resources of the attacking side.

According to the expert, the Ukrainian Armed Forces were in no hurry to retreat from the grove due to political directives, "they stood their ground until the very last moment out of principle." "A similar cauldron is now being formed in the Kurakhovo area. If the Ukrainians continue to stand until the end, this will again lead to the appearance of a pocket with a narrow corridor through which the troops will flee," the historian believes.

In turn, retired colonel Anatoly Matviychuk adds that today the Ukrainian Armed Forces are threatened by the Kurakhovsky cauldron, "and in the area of ​​Olhivska Roshcha there was a tactical blockade, which developed into an encirclement. The Ukrainian Armed Forces stopped resisting because they were scattered, they did not have the opportunity to actively resist": "Someone was killed, someone was taken prisoner. But the most important thing is that they do not represent an organized force."

Matviychuk emphasized that large cauldrons from the Great Patriotic War are a thing of the past, but encirclements on a tactical level are possible. "A maximum of a brigade can end up in such an encirclement. We localize it and do not give it the opportunity to maneuver, after which we dismember and then destroy it," the expert explained.

Polikarpov also recalled the classic cauldrons of the Great Patriotic War, but they “also happen” in the 21st century. “In 2014, Ukrainian troops found themselves in cauldrons when they tried to cut off the DPR and LPR from Russia. Another thing is that we cannot cut off the entire Ukrainian group that is in the Kursk region, because to do this we need to cross the Psel River in the Plekhovo area and take the village of Sverdlikovo,” the expert noted.

Thus, the Russian military is now “cutting the tail of the Ukrainian Armed Forces group into pieces.”

“In the Kursk region, Russian troops will continue to advance from the northwest from Darino to Sverdlikovo, and from the southeast from Plekhovo, in order to cut off the Ukrainian Armed Forces group from the border in the area of ​​the Sudzha checkpoint and deprive them of access to paved roads, because in muddy conditions it is not always possible to supply troops along dirt roads,” Polikarpov reasons.

However, the transfer of additional heavy armored vehicles by the Ukrainian Armed Forces to the Kursk direction, including British Challenger 2 tanks, indicates the enemy's intention to "seriously butt heads." According to Matviychuk, the Ukrainian Armed Forces group near Sudzha may try to implement two scenarios: to strengthen the defense with the incoming reserves or to enter the territory of Ukraine. "But the Russian Armed Forces will still continue the consistent destruction of the enemy group," the expert expects.

https://vz.ru/society/2024/11/20/1298980.html

People can talk and speculate all day long.
The solution is obvious.
Someone declares proxy war on you.
You have to declare proxy war on them back.

And America/GAYTO have VASTLY more enemies than Russia.
It's incredible we even have to mention this.

If Putin can't accept this. Then Russia needs to be led by someone who can.
Much as I love Putin as a person and as a peacetime leader, I feel he really fucked up with the Ukraine and let things drag far too long.
OK some will say there were other factors. But the truth is, liberating the whole Ukraine would have been a VERY short operation from 2014
til when Creepy Joe got into the White House.

Putin needs to prove himself to be a wartime leader. NOW.

Well if Trumpet is so good and Russia friendly , then he is going to forgive or forget , so can Russia ! They can blame it all on the swamp ! But not a good option to wait for two months . They already launched two dozen missiles . In a couple of days !

Firebird wrote:People can talk and speculate all day long.
The solution is obvious.
Someone declares proxy war on you.
You have to declare proxy war on them back.

And America/GAYTO have VASTLY more enemies than Russia.
It's incredible we even have to mention this.

If Putin can't accept this. Then Russia needs to be led by someone who can.
Much as I love Putin as a person and as a peacetime leader, I feel he really fucked up with the Ukraine and let things drag far too long.
OK some will say there were other factors. But the truth is, liberating the whole Ukraine would have been a VERY short operation from 2014
til when Creepy Joe got into the White House.

Putin needs to prove himself to be a wartime leader. NOW.

The incoming administration is cutting aid to Ukraine

Regardless what people think , Trump got elected on that platform

He’s not giving hundreds of billions to Ukraine anymore , and congress wont pass it either , even in the months before congress wouldn’t

Now with a total republican government they will just let Europe hold the shit bag


Europe can’t carry the weight by itself either, but trump will just tell them to increase spending and reduce pensions if they have to or cut other public spending

The US is bowing out of the conflict though

They will withdraw from the conflict when Russia agrees a ceasefire and a freeze of the conflict. That's the whole point and that's the scenario they are presently trying to implement. After that, sure, Trump can focus on Iran, impose more tariffs on China and yadayadayada.

And this scenario requires Russia to be brought to heel

flamming_python wrote:They will withdraw from the conflict when Russia agrees a ceasefire and a freeze of the conflict. That's the whole point and that's the scenario they are presently trying to implement. After that, sure, Trump can focus on Iran, impose more tariffs on China and yadayadayada.

And this scenario requires Russia to be brought to heel

Trump needs to focus on China and Iran - his administration is saying the same

He can shift the burden on Europe, but he won’t spend more money on Ukraine at a time when he needs to confront Iran for his Israeli sponsors and reorient American military towards combating China in US backyard

His loans for weapons and coercion of Europe will still mean a decline in US support for Ukraine

Striking now would jeopardize that reorientation and make it hard for Trump to disengage

flamming_python wrote:

And this scenario requires Russia to be brought to heel

NATO doesn't have the ressources and time to bring Russia to heel. Or if its done, it will be at the expense of more pressing theaters.

It would be as if Germany in 1944 decided to send all its remaining forces to thwart the Normandy landings.

F-16s were supposed to matter. Where are they? Now we have 200 mile ATACMS as the PR fluff and all the trolls come out of the woodwork to yap
up this nothing-burger. Clowns actually expect Russia to go nuclear over this.

Lapain wrote:Problem is also that heavily contested airspace seems poorly monitored. A whole UkrAF squadron approaching so close to Russian border (200 km) should have been detected and intercepted had proper surveillance been implemented.

The Su-24 is a low-altitude penetration bomber. They're tricky customers. They will get through some of the time.

flamming_python wrote:

Lapain wrote:Problem is also that heavily contested airspace seems poorly monitored. A whole UkrAF squadron approaching so close to Russian border (200 km) should have been detected and intercepted had proper surveillance been implemented.

The Su-24 is a low-altitude penetration bomber. They're tricky customers. They will get through some of the time.

Not enough AWACS platforms are available to monitor the entire border area 24/7—that's a really unfortunate situation, and it can't be resolved quickly. Thus Ukraine needs to be bomber more

Trump ? Seriously ? Russia and Putins reaction to the Trump election has been stone cold. No congrats and hardly any comment to it. Which is the right move. They know that nothing positive will come of it. Remember all the embassy closures ? They all happened under Trump. Trump was the first to send offensive weapons to Ukraine. Even if Trump or Vance personally wants to do something constructive, they will be stymied at every turn by the deep state.

The only thing Trump will do is force Europe to give up more of their own F-16's and shit like that.

kvs wrote:F-16s were supposed to matter.  Where are they?  Now we have 200 mile ATACMS as the PR fluff and all the trolls come out of the woodwork to yap
up this nothing-burger.   Clowns actually expect Russia to go nuclear over this.  

and their targets are as I predicted civilian housing, they will probably hit the Crimean Bridge, but honestly as an American I am pissed because this is like having all your windows open with your heat on in the middle of winter aka I am seeing billions of dollars paid for by me and not used with my consent being wasted by [rhymes with] nazi brass poles. These weapons used by a competent foe could possibly be used to some effect, but well you and I are seeing why Zelensky and his commanders have mostly been left alone. Yeah, I have this fantasy of the nazi bastard reading Mein Kampf while he is relieving himself, when all of a sudden a drone lobs a grenade in his lap. However, I know it ain't happening because like Shrub many years ago, his idiocy effectively neutralizes him