Wrong. This changes the whole strategic calculus for NATO, because Russia apparently already has a tool to replace INF prohibited missiles and can with great effectiveness hit great numbers of targets all across Europe. If it is what it seems (we do not know yet), Russia decided to break their good will moratorium on such missiles and that inevitably increases risks for the US lapdogs in the continent, which still have some military planers and can understand very well what this means, in case they are tempted to scale up provocations to the point where they are not just a nuisance anymore.
From what I have read this is a prototype new IRBM and this was a test. This system is not deployed and wont be deployed until the US deploys missiles that would have violated the INF treaty if it was still in effect.
Essentially Putin is saying that when the US puts cruise missiles in Germany they are going to start production and deployment of an OPERATIONALLY tested IRBM system.
NATO is firing cruise missiles into Russia, it's irrelevant from whose territory, hence it has already become a target. And that's not all that NATO will do - it's following a pattern of escalation that was clear from the start; and each subsequent step will be more blatant and belligerent.
Cruise missile launches are not the only thing they will be doing, they will be gathering up as many Russian bits of kit they can get their hands on for testing and evaluating and they will likely be interrogating pilots and prisoners to get information too. They are probably sending their own special forces in to get experience on actual missions no doubt...
Our leaders are indecisive and walking their own rhetoric back while the Western leaders are full of misplaced confidence that they can box Russia into accepting a capitulation. Unfortunately it will all end in disaster. The only way to resolve this situation is for Russia to start escalating back, and hard.
You confuse cautious and sensible with indecisive. Russia has not begged anyone for talks or negotiations and when the terms don't allow them to reach their goals they are not talking.
Trump thinks he can give a deal they can't refuse and if they do refuse he will pump money and weapons and ammo like you have never seen... but that just creates more targets for Russia and Kievs problem isn't a lack of weapons or ammo... it is a lack of trained Motivated men. Money and ammo and weapons wont change that.
They are going to eat themselves... support and supply for a military force even fighting on home turf requires men... when they get short they will start sending rear area guys to the front line... pilots and trainers and others have already been sent... as they send even more men to the front things in supply and the society will start to collapse if the front line doesn't collapse first.
It always had the capability it just never demonstrated the balls hence this capability is worthless when it comes to deterring the West from escalation right here and now.
It had the capability with an ICBM but AFAIK they have nuclear payloads and are unlikely to be wasted with conventional warheads.
This is a new IRBM prototype getting live testing... and doing rather well by the look of it... they hit that factory from one end to the other.
To scare the shit out of the westerners with Rubezh, and finally throwing 20+ NK pipes at some target 600 km away - I would call that a double tap
Even better, it was a new IRBM so scaring the shit out of westerners and testing a prototype IRBM... it might make Biden roll back the permission, and it also might stop US plans for cruise missiles in Germany too...
I am an adult
And I would very much prefer to avoid WW3
You just don't seem to understand what's going on, instead choosing to live in a fantasy while gatekeeping what Russia should do in response to its servicemen (and soon civilians no doubt) being killed.
Go turn the other cheek on your own dime, not ours.
As an adult do you understand that when dealing with arrogant immature children armed with real firearms and explosives that you have to ride a fine line between not enough and too much to avoid catastrophe?
And most crucially of all - unless the Russian leadership gets serious about showing NATO its place, and soon, what we will be looking at is a mass conventional war between Russia and NATO, it won't be avoided.
Economically most HATO countries are not in good shape and their populations are voting these war mongers out and replacing them with less hostile people... eventually their politicians are going to get a clue of what their people actually want and to get and keep power they are going to have to learn to say no to the US.
I would say if any HATO country decides to send troops to Ukraine will lead to protests in that country... if not to start with, then certainly when all the body bags start arriving because Russia is hardly going to spare them... they will make an example of them because it is they that are driving this war and what kept it going this long.
The West knows what it was. If the Korean shit MLRS, they laugh, if the conventional RS 26, they may have concerns. Hit the entire EU conventionally at a speed of 6 km/s. MLRS does not impress anyone.
A prototype IRBM with conventional warheads fitted... they don't need to be conventional.
Second of all, there are no NATO facilities in the Ukraine. They have declared none. But NATO certainly is hitting Russian facilities on Russian territory
Of course there are no HATO facilities in Ukraine... those bio weapons labs and mobile labs... they copied Saddams made up mobile bio weapons labs... and those CIA rendition sites are not there either of course... funny you believe the west so much.
If Russia accepts such then they are creating a rod for its own back.
Putin and Lavrov have said publicly they are open for talks but any freeze or ceasefire so Kiev can rearm and reequip is not acceptable and will not be agreed to.
The main question is the rate of stockpiling missiles so massive as RS26 is.
It is practically a continent theatre ICBM that won't be much less expensive than Yars.
Still a serious overkill I would say.
They are testing the prototype for a weapon they will deploy when the US deploys cruise missiles to Germany like they are planning to do.
I really don't like this situation. Now long range missiles are fired. Somebody has shit in his pants this morning, when blip has appeared on the early warning screen. When does this escalation circle calm down? Hopefully soon.
This is an excellent response, it reminds Europe that Russia is now developing IRBMs because of decisions and actions by their partner the US of A. US missiles going to be based in Germany next year or the year after. Well those subsonic Tomahawk cruise missiles pale in insignificance with IRBMs with this level of precision... a level of precision redundant in real use because they will spread the payload over a much wider area and each warhead will be nuclear.
Putin announced, adding that the missile has been named Oreshnik (Walnut orchard).
Yandex translates it as Hazel.
“It would also get the relationship with the incoming Trump administration off to a very dangerous start.”
How could Trump blame Putin for responding to shit moves by a petty vindictive Biden on his way out... that old prick should go to jail for this.
If Trump wants Russia to calm down he knows what he has to do... leave Europe.
The Oreshnik missile demonstrates impressive precision. It's remarkable that Russia developed such a sophisticated weapon in such a short timeframe. While the Iskander was effective, the purpose of the Oreshnik remains unclear to me.
Their weapons are already precise... this fills the gap created by the US withdrawal from the INF treaty banning missiles with flight ranges of between 500km and 5,000km. The Iskander has extended its range to 1,000km and this weapon will have a range of between 500km and 5,000km to fill the gap between short range missiles (SRBM and SRCM) and intercontinental missiles (ICBMs and ICCMs).
Perhaps Russia is gauging its military-industrial complex's ability to rapidly innovate and deploy new MRBMs
The US said it was going to base long range cruise missiles in Germany over the next few years... this new missile is a response to that... it means Russia will be able to hit targets in Europe and Asia (japan and SK and perhaps Australia) without needing to use their strategic nuclear missiles.
A lot of Soviet programs came to an abrupt halt with the INF Treaty, but the know-how and technology remained. I'm guessing that the Oreshnik could be heavily based on the Skoroghod IRBM of that era. It was a very compact IRBM loosely based on the Pioneer.
New technology and new designs as well as old designs can be taken out and computer tested and modelled and they can try all sorts of things.
I think the US and EU are going to blink and even if the US doesn't the EU will likely demand the removal of all medium and intermediate range missiles from Europe if Russia will do the same. Of course Russia will just move them to the far north for use against Canada and the far east against Japan and SK and Alaska... I can't see the US giving them up... even as inferior as they are now.
Impossible to descalate now. From both sides. Prepare for the worst.
I don't agree... I would wager US personal in the Ukraine will be ordered to not give the codes and guidance information for weapons aimed at anything inside Russian territory. The orcs will still launch long range drone strikes but I suspect no more ATACMS or storm shadows... but if they do it will be interesting to see where they test this new system next.
It is crystal clear now, that NONE was a cartoon - all being a mature and fielded weapon systems, some of them battle proven.
Now, he shows NEW systems, even better than the ones back then...
Better than that.... he went down to the lab for their equivalent of Q and said what have you got in testing... and he walks over and points to an IRBM that is ready for a test... and he says... OK the test target is in the Ukraine in the place they made SS-18 Satan rockets...
Russia just unveiled the Oreshnik, but the west has nothing to worry about - they still have the Copperhead
Just that name Copperhead, sends shivers down my spine... reminds me of the 1980s when I was reading about how awful it was in British magazines like Combat and Survival, and War Machine... and the American Soldier of Fortune.
The kinetic warhead was probably used for demonstration purposes. I wonder what the scale of the destruction is. They don't want to show much. Rolling Eyes Such a warhead probably won't destroy a heavily reinforced target?
At the speeds it was moving a HE warhead wouldn't be much more effective and being lighter would slow down rather quicker.
Solid penetrator warheads would not slow down very much in the atmosphere at all.
This is an IRBM, it will be kinetic warheads or it will be nuclear warheads and we are not anywhere near justifying those just yet.
A kinetic warhead will penetrate deep into multilevel basements and bunkers at a speed that shrapnel will be lethal.
It was an ICBM with a MIRV, there was no massive kinetic punch, nothing like that.
It was a prototype IRBM and accelerating metal to 3km per second is only the sort of thing a rather large HE charge can do normally.
If kinetic weapons were useless then the US wouldn't have been talking about them the last 50 years.
Putin clearly ordered warheads removed (lol how nice of him to coddle Ukriane) and attached MIRVS to it as his show of force
The only MIRVS they would have would be nuclear. These are clearly new kinetic warheads... made viable because of the accuracy of the weapon and the use of multiple warheads to spread the damage around a bit.
I guess you need to use your common sense.
It is not about "how many are allowed" but what it brings to the conversation.
This one is trimmed and focused.
My take is a conversation is between two members, so if you post a quote with two different members talking... a comment and a response... that is a conversation.
Otherwise everyone will say they didn't think it was a conversation and thought it was OK.
Because of the potential confusion I have fixed it for you... no ban this time. Oh how nice of him, defacto warning the Military also.
Gives them all the time in the world to get out
He said he would warn civilians if they could be in danger from an attack... like an ORC HQ in amongst residential housing for instance.
With this sort of weapon hitting an airfield with 6 x 100kg+ solid metal warheads moving at 3km/s second is going to destroy runways and foundations down a significant depth... in fact they could probably go for 30 x 20kg metal penetrators that don't dig down so deep but would still fracture concrete foundations down quite a distance, making repairs interesting... especially if a Kh-101 comes in and drops mines to make the repair a bit more dangerous.
Most Ukies workshop's are in underground areas, that said lobbing these at power stations with actual warhead's and not MIRVs would be a good start.
Conventional weapons are already doing that, likely much cheaper and easier.
This new system is a prototype for testing... they might have a dozen or so, which means they will use it when they think they need to and it is the sort of weapon that Kiev is unlikely to be able to do very much about even with plenty of warning.
Why do the poor saps on the outskirts always have to feel the brunt of it for the decisions being made in Kiev ? While life goes on like in any other European city, in Kiev.
The target was a factory that during the cold war made SS-18 missiles and is currently making weapons of war like rockets. Compared with empty buildings, this was a very useful target to take on.
Lmao so funny Russia has rods of God and the west has… dial a yield lmfao
They also seem rather advanced in drone swarms controlled by AI too... very funny.
Striking a facility used to make weapons is fine, the big question is why wasn't this done the second they found out about it.
If they took the time to get detailed intel on the site and worked out where the heavy equipment is and specifically targeted that heavy equipment then they needed a powerful penetrator or kinetic warhead for the job... four or five missiles with 6 heavy penetrators each means 24-30 Kinzhal missile launches...
Cute fantasy, once Russia and NATO start trading conventional blows, the nukes coming eventually.
But Russias blows are likely to hit the target, whereas HATO blows might hit S-400s in flight and not do any damage at all.
Who wants to put on a flight suit and fly an F-35 to Moscow to teach those damn Russians a lesson?
Acting like this missile changes thing's is delusional, the Russians already have longer range stuff.
A missile of this range with conventional payloads is not something they have had in terms of ballistic missiles.
Is it a nuke or kinetic.. wait to find out...
This is really going to upset EU countries thanks to the US ripping up the INF treaty this will be a new feeling.
How will claims that US AD systems will protect them go down?
Up until now there has been no problem because they had no weapon in that gap... now they are testing it for real.
A BM with 6 warheads, i don't get the hype
It is an IRBM that fills the empty space between Iskander and ICBMs. An accurate missile system moving too fast to intercept because it will also manouver too... likely not a scramjet, more likely just conventional rocket. Small heavy metal penetrators will not slow down in the earths atmosphere very much at all so they probably fly through the air at mach 10 or so and come in at mach 10... the shape and weight will determine terminal velocity and that is the speed it will fall at eventually if there is enough atmosphere to slow it down that much.
Asteroids hitting the earth surface moving at 20km/s are too large to slow down so they impact the earth at near that speed because there is not enough atmosphere to slow it down... it will heat up, but no slow down much.
Some snowballs might explode in the atmosphere but a metal rich asteroid is coming in super fast.
It was Putin basically fiirng a nice like nothing shot to look tough
A kinetic warhead is not for show... Russia does not do for show shock and awe faggoty bullshit that the west loves to inflict on others.
A ship or even perhaps a sub near the surface or a factory with heavy machinery or even a runway or bunker complex getting multiple large holes punched through it is a type of warhead that is useful if you have accuracy and it seems to have accuracy.
or any ABM/PAC 3 installations , just installations. With warming
The cool thing is that ICBM and SLBM test launches require notification, but MRBM and IRBM launches don't.
Do you not know what a MIRV is? It's a decoy warhead meant to confuse AD.
No it isn't. It is a Multiple Independently targeted reentry vehicle. When a Satan carries 10 warheads it is said to have 10 MIRV warheads. It might have 50 decoys and jammers, but MIRVs are what they call the nuclear warheads carried by ballistic missiles.
If the warheads are not targeted individually they are called MRVs, or multiple reentry vehicles that are released and land in a pattern around the aim point to damage a large area target like a city with multiple nuclear explosions. If the warheads can manouver then they are called MaRVs... manouverable reentry vehicles... the fact that they can hit widely separate targets is implied.
An MIRV can either be a Decoy or a REAL warhead. DlCKHEAD
A MIRV is a warhead. Decoys don't need to be guided or targeted...
It was a decoy MIRV, man child there was no warheads loaded.
Those were not decoys, those were kinetic warheads... decoys are stacked shells that appear to be warheads in space so interception means picking the balloons from the metal warheads.. they carry so many decoys because they are stacked like road cones. Decoys have tiny mass and rapidly slow down when they reach the atmosphere like a balloon would.
@Garry: My apologize if my question has been answered somewhere, but if a member happened to make wrong format about quoting... how much time he is provided to fix his post before he is banned ? Or as soon as the min and mod detected it will be an immediate ban ?
Till I see it normally, but in this case I am giving some slack till this post goes up and members understand my position and reasoning... repeat... quote more than one persons comments and that is a conversation...
You would think calls for Genocide and open racism would get you banned here, Funny that's okay but not miss using quote system
Genocide and racism is why this conflict started and the US and the entire west was just fine when the victims were Russians.
The west cycles through bad guys like they do in their terrible movies... Iraqis, Serbs, Russians, Georgians, Hungarians... the Afghans went from heroes fighting off the Soviets to goat fuckers getting in the way of womens rights and democracy.... Iraqis were heroes for fighting Iran in the 1980s and then their name became dirt when they looked like they were going to take Kuwaiti oil and shared a border with Saudi Arabia... the risk was too great so the ally that sold them cheap oil to get them through the energy crisis a few decades before became enemy number one.
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You cant fool us you LYING buffoon 
