Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

ahmedfire wrote:
Sources said this is the new batch for Egypt .

Imagine how much "work" goes into building just one of those jets!?  You have all those panels -- the titanium & alloys along with the composite ones -- and that's not even factoring the metallurgy stage of what it takes to manufacture and press and shape those panels to perfect fit tolerances.  Then you have the other side of that which is the composite materials and the fabrication process of that side of the coin.
Then you have:
- assembly of frame
- assembly of panels
- all the wiring that needs to be installed to make all the needing parts powered up
- all the bladders or built-in fuel tanks that have to be sealed and tested for pressure?
- all the moving parts flaperons, rudders, leading edge flaps
- I keep thinking of all the wiring alone that goes into each aircraft must be an incredible task!  Imagine running one wrong or missing one?  Trying to go back and looking for what and where and how that wire went missing!?!  They must have a checklist of some sorts so that would never happen.
- the landing gears
- engine and all associated connections lol that's like a whole other book by itself.
And so much more I could sit here and talk about all this stuff all day but gotta stop sometime.

Then you have 30 of them just for the Egyptian order LOL.  Incredible.  And they also have the order for the VVS to complete and they just delivered 2 of them a few weeks ago to the Russian Air Force and Sukhoi is also assembling the Su-57 and that I'm sure is going through growing pains as we speak simply because it's a new jet and the first one in Russia to be designed digitally.  Not sure if that will affect the assembly process but I'm sure a new aircraft will have its own new problems.

So God bless them for the tremendous work they're doing and if the rest of those jets look like the ones we've seen in those pics above or like this one below, the EAF is in for a treat with these bad boys!



What a beauty. I really hope that when they remove the paint covering the Egyptian flag on the vertical stabilizers that they also end up exposing the EAF roundel not only on the wings, but on the fuselage also somewhere forward of the air intake. It just won't look 100% without that roundel. Silly I know but we're fussy about these things! lol.

awmz wrote:So has anyone figured out its an AE or SD?

Well, if you've read all the posts and followed the entire discussion, it looks like @Ahmedfire has shown us that the missiles we have seen so far on all the MiG-29Ms are the AE, unfortunately. But hopefully @Gary is right and that perhaps they bought a batch of both, and so far they've only mounted the AE for all these flights because it's all they need for now in peace time operations and when the need arises, they'll start mounting the SDs. I hope that's the truth since you probably know my opinion about these and no need to repeat it again. Welcome, BTW.

Gomig-21 wrote:

ahmedfire wrote:
Sources said this is the new batch for Egypt .

Imagine how much "work" goes into building just one of those jets!?  You have all those panels -- the titanium & alloys along with the composite ones -- and that's not even factoring the metallurgy stage of what it takes to manufacture and press and shape those panels to perfect fit tolerances.  Then you have the other side of that which is the composite materials and the fabrication process of that side of the coin.
Then you have:
- assembly of frame
- assembly of panels
- all the wiring that needs to be installed to make all the needing parts powered up
- all the bladders or built-in fuel tanks that have to be sealed and tested for pressure?
- all the moving parts flaperons, rudders, leading edge flaps
- I keep thinking of all the wiring alone that goes into each aircraft must be an incredible task!  Imagine running one wrong or missing one?  Trying to go back and looking for what and where and how that wire went missing!?!  They must have a checklist of some sorts so that would never happen.
- the landing gears
- engine and all associated connections lol that's like a whole other book by itself.
And so much more I could sit here and talk about all this stuff all day but gotta stop sometime.

Then you have 30 of them just for the Egyptian order LOL.  Incredible.  And they also have the order for the VVS to complete and they just delivered 2 of them a few weeks ago to the Russian Air Force and Sukhoi is also assembling the Su-57 and that I'm sure is going through growing pains as we speak simply because it's a new jet and the first one in Russia to be designed digitally.  Not sure if that will affect the assembly process but I'm sure a new aircraft will have its own new problems.

So God bless them for the tremendous work they're doing and if the rest of those jets look like the ones we've seen in those pics above or like this one below, the EAF is in for a treat with these bad boys!



What a beauty.  I really hope that when they remove the paint covering the Egyptian flag on the vertical stabilizers that they also end up exposing the EAF roundel not only on the wings, but on the fuselage also somewhere forward of the air intake.  It just won't look 100% without that roundel.  Silly I know but we're fussy about these things! lol.

awmz wrote:So has anyone figured out its an AE or SD?

Well, if you've read all the posts and followed the entire discussion, it looks like @Ahmedfire has shown us that the missiles we have seen so far on all the MiG-29Ms are the AE, unfortunately.  But hopefully @Gary is right and that perhaps they bought a batch of both, and so far they've only mounted the AE for all these flights because it's all they need for now in peace time operations and when the need arises, they'll start mounting the SDs.  I hope that's the truth since you probably know my opinion about these and no need to repeat it again.  Welcome, BTW.

Its weird though why all the credible online experts like gamal and such are saying its the SD maybe you can ask them?

awmz wrote:Its weird though why all the credible online experts like gamal and such are saying its the SD maybe you can ask them?

Mahmoud Gamal might be credible, but we all make mistakes.

Gomig-21 wrote:

awmz wrote:Its weird though why all the credible online experts like gamal and such are saying its the SD maybe you can ask them?

Mahmoud Gamal might be credible, but we all make mistakes.

If you think about it if the SD is available for export its only logical to get them US/israel don't really have effect on russian sales or they would've stopped the sale of the Su-35 + We got the Migs for those missiles as its an interceptor in the first place and to compensate for the missing AMRAAMS on the F16s so if we couldn't get the SDs why even bother buying the Migs we could've just stuck to buying downgraded US equipment if that was the case

awmz wrote:
If you think about it if the SD is available for export its only logical to get them US/israel don't really have effect on russian sales or they would've stopped the sale of the Su-35 + We got the Migs for those missiles as its an interceptor in the first place and to compensate for the missing AMRAAMS on the F16s so if we couldn't get the SDs why even bother buying the Migs we could've just stuck to buying downgraded US equipment if that was the case

If you go back one page and take a look at Ahmedfire's post #281 in this thread, he explains the difference rather well and shows which one is on the Egyptian MiGs which appears to be the AE.  I said the same exact thing you did several times on this thread and the fellas came up with some pretty good and convincing reasons, between Ahmedfire and Gary.  They've certainly convinced me and I look at all the other air forces that deploy Russian fighter jets and their R-77s and I also see only the AE version.  I don't think I've seen any jet out there with the SD version TBH.  Just the one pic of the Russian Su-27 or 30 in the previous page in one of my posts where the crew is mounting one of the missiles on the jet.  Other than that, very rare to see the SD version.

The older models would be cheaper, and less politically volatile so it makes sense for them to buy some and to show them, because for targets at closer ranges they would probably be just as effective as longer ranged models but cheaper and already in full scale mass production.

The newer longer ranged missiles are also for export and I really don't know why Russia would say no to Egypt... they don't normally control their customers like that... if you have the money to buy the product they will sell it... leading to the unusual situation where both China and India had versions of the Su-30 with more sophisticated AAMs (R-77 RVV-AE) missiles than the Russian Air Force was using at the time (Su-27s with R-27s).

Obviously there are limits to what they will sell... they wont sell Topols to Egypt for example... but equally the RVV-BD is an export variant of the R-37M, and the export version of the Su-57 is there too... remember the Russian MIC has tiny margins with domestic sales so export sales is where they get most of their funding for R&D etc etc... but even then they don't have enormous markups like the west does... cough Rafale cough...

I would think Egypt will reduce the butt hurt from the west by keeping the R-77-1s in stores rather than on their planes for the time being... it is certainly a card they can play at any time... just like an RVV-BD... it makes no sense to show your entire hand at once... you just don't play the game that way.

Some of the new armed drones Russia is making should be interesting to Egypt... an IADS over Israel is expensive for aircraft... but even more so for defending against smaller slower harder targets like drones...

GarryB wrote:The older models would be cheaper, and less politically volatile so it makes sense for them to buy some and to show them, because for targets at closer ranges they would probably be just as effective as longer ranged models but cheaper and already in full scale mass production.

The newer longer ranged missiles are also for export and I really don't know why Russia would say no to Egypt... they don't normally control their customers like that... if you have the money to buy the product they will sell it... leading to the unusual situation where both China and India had versions of the Su-30 with more sophisticated AAMs (R-77 RVV-AE) missiles than the Russian Air Force was using at the time (Su-27s with R-27s).

Obviously there are limits to what they will sell... they wont sell Topols to Egypt for example... but equally the RVV-BD is an export variant of the R-37M, and the export version of the Su-57 is there too... remember the Russian MIC has tiny margins with domestic sales so export sales is where they get most of their funding for R&D etc etc... but even then they don't have enormous markups like the west does...  cough Rafale cough...

I would think Egypt will reduce the butt hurt from the west by keeping the R-77-1s in stores rather than on their planes for the time being... it is certainly a card they can play at any time... just like an RVV-BD... it makes no sense to show your entire hand at once... you just don't play the game that way.

Some of the new armed drones Russia is making should be interesting to Egypt... an IADS over Israel is expensive for aircraft... but even more so for defending against smaller slower harder targets like drones...

Makes sense like we did with the S300VM that was ordered in 2014

Exactly.

Revealing long range AAMs now would just have negative consequences for Egypt right now... the US would likely cut more ties and might impose sanctions to damage the Egyptian economy... and it might start developing or accelerate the development of super long range AAMs to counter them which would totally negate the advantage of having them.

The older missiles will be cheaper and good to get experience on, and for closer ranged targets during peace time where you need to get closer and identify something before the possibility of getting permission to shoot it down it wont matter if it is the older shorter ranged missile or a new more expensive but also more capable model...

Well, I think you folks know me by now that I believe it when I see it and if I don't see it, I don't believe it lol!  Seriously, though, even if it's reported in Sipri or another publication, because of the anonymity and secrecy of Russian deals (especially with Egypt) I still wouldn't believe it until we get a visual OR and official Russian publication or announcement.  I hope I'm wrong!  But that's just me.

Same with the Meteor.  Until we see one or two hanging off the pylons of an EAF Rafale, then they're not in the inventory plain and simple unless an official release from MBDA or a high-ranking UK military official or French or Italian comes out.  Then I might be convinced but I just don't think they've ordered them yet for some reason or another.

Also I tried looking at the IAF jets to see if they ordered any and very hard to tell if even they have any. Or the Algerian jets.  All of them look like they're carrying the RVV-AE.  I was told by an Indian fella who's really into all things IAF and very well informed that when they had issues with the missiles a few years ago because of the humidity and storage etc. and they lost a bunch of them, instead of replacing the damaged R-77s with new ones, they bought more R-27s instead because they're experience is that they're better missiles all around.  NOT MY SAYING, but this guy said it.  Disclaimer since I don't want half the forum jumping ugly on me loool.    

That being said, I certainly hope to see at least two of the types of R-27s when the Su-35s start flying around with munitions.  I figured they would be here already with the MiG-29/35s?!  Hopefully someday when they're not shy to put missiles on their jets that we start seeing R-27s on the MiG-35s as well!

Gomig-21 wrote:Well, I think you folks know me by now that I believe it when I see it and if I don't see it, I don't believe it lol!  Seriously, though, even if it's reported in Sipri or another publication, because of the anonymity and secrecy of Russian deals (especially with Egypt) I still wouldn't believe it until we get a visual OR and official Russian publication or announcement.  I hope I'm wrong!  But that's just me.

Same with the Meteor.  Until we see one or two hanging off the pylons of an EAF Rafale, then they're not in the inventory plain and simple unless an official release from MBDA or a high-ranking UK military official or French or Italian comes out.  Then I might be convinced but I just don't think they've ordered them yet for some reason or another.

Also I tried looking at the IAF jets to see if they ordered any and very hard to tell if even they have any. Or the Algerian jets.  All of them look like they're carrying the RVV-AE.  I was told by an Indian fella who's really into all things IAF and very well informed that when they had issues with the missiles a few years ago because of the humidity and storage etc. and they lost a bunch of them, instead of replacing the damaged R-77s with new ones, they bought more R-27s instead because they're experience is that they're better missiles all around.  NOT MY SAYING, but this guy said it.  Disclaimer since I don't want half the forum jumping ugly on me loool.    

That being said, I certainly hope to see at least two of the types of R-27s when the Su-35s start flying around with munitions.  I figured they would be here already with the MiG-29/35s?!  Hopefully someday when they're not shy to put missiles on their jets that we start seeing R-27s on the MiG-35s as well!

The su-30MKI couldn't carry the SD till late 2019

Th Su-30MKI is a modification of basically a two seat Su-27.

The Su-35 is compatible with all new Russian weapons for fighters and light bombers.

New pic of one of the newly assembled Su-35SE for the EAF, tail number 9214 with the tail flag temporarily covered up with the camo paint undergoing flight tests.

Can't see it...

Did you upload it to an image server and link to that or are you hot linking?

That file is a nightmare, almost like it's possessed by a demon! lol. You should see it now.

Some nice EAF MiGs & Rafales & Mirage 2000s and F-16s during last week's French Air Force visit Skyros.

Sweet pic with mix or French, Egyptian Rafales as well as EAF MiG-29M/M2.

Yeah, Egypt has a rather beautiful Airforce. Waiting for those Su-35 pics.

miketheterrible wrote:Yeah, Egypt has a rather beautiful Airforce. Waiting for those Su-35 pics.

Egyptians know how stuff is done, smart folks

Mike and PD... you guys are going to burst in to flames any second now....

Mirage 2000s, Rafales, MiG-29s, Su-35s, and F-16s... they have a bit of everything... India has a similar fleet except scratch the F-16 and make the Su-35 into an Su-30MKI and I seem to remember you two complaining about the complexity and redundancy of their aircraft choices...

GarryB wrote:Mike and PD... you guys are going to burst in to flames any second now....

Mirage 2000s, Rafales, MiG-29s, Su-35s, and F-16s... they have a bit of everything... India has a similar fleet except scratch the F-16 and make the Su-35 into an Su-30MKI and I seem to remember you two complaining about the complexity and redundancy of their aircraft choices...

Correct. Only difference is, that Egypt buy planes with original components inside and not experimenting with components from everywhere around the World. French planes are fully French, US planes are fully US and Russian planes are fully Russian.

Egypt was dependant on US 100%. They had to buy something else. French showed that they are not that much trusty so they also bought russian stuff.

They also get political support when they buy it.

India buys weapons without the need to not be dependant on Russia because they will always get everything gvey want from them and they don't seak for political support. That's why their choices are so bad. They buy from everyone with no real goal.

Egypt is not India

They work within limits of what's possible for them and compared to their neighborhood they are doing very good job

Plus they think for themselves

I started to think the shortage of weapons in the F-16 fleet became an advantage by turning Egypt face to other non US aircrafts .

At least Russia will give what Egypt needs , and France has no reason to say no .

Adding different platforms could increase the operational cost but on the other side the enemy will face some systems he don't know much about it .

It's good too to connect the different platforms under control and command system "RISC2 " which was introduced by Egypt during the 2018 Egypt Defence Expo .

https://www.c4isrnet.com/battlefield-tech/c2-comms/2020/10/28/how-is-the-egyptian-air-force-able-to-operate-its-fleet-of-mixed-origin/

Images of Scalp cruise missiles for anyone who doubted it

https://www.facebook.com/103344724583985/videos/1128472277608724

A released video showing EAF is using KH-35 .




Also it's the first photo of Harpoon on F-16.