Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

Any informations, when will Egyptian Su-35 finally land in Egypt? For now we only see them sitting in Russia.

medo wrote:Any informations, when will Egyptian Su-35 finally land in Egypt? For now we only see them sitting in Russia.

The contract happened really fast. IMO they are still training on them and it will take more time than for mig-29 since it's a more complicated airplane with more sensors but also 3d vector thrust engine that need time to be trained on.

They don't want to get in a position where the plane put itself in an bad situation and loose control. Thrust vectoring isn't easy to use. And they can't train just one egyptian instructor for that but will train all the pilots.

But the other interesting part is the two end MiG-29M/M2/35 are the rarer 2-seat models of which the EAF only has 4 o fthem IIRC.

They might have ordered 4 fitted out with two seats but they are actually modifiable at overhaul level units where the seat and second cockpit can be added or fitted with an extra fuel tank.

It means as long as you get the extra parts you can swap between versions of single seat and twin seat on all three aircraft of that generation/modification.

MiG-29M and MiG-29M2 are essentially the same aircraft and can be changed between the two designations by either fitting two seats or one seat and an extra fuel tank. The MiG-35 is the same and so is the MiG-29KR... both of which can also be in a two or single seat configuration.

The original MiG-29M from the late 1980s could not do this and previous MiG-29s were either single seat with a small canopy or a two seat KUB model with a two seat canopy.

GarryB wrote:

But the other interesting part is the two end MiG-29M/M2/35 are the rarer 2-seat models of which the EAF only has 4 o fthem IIRC.

They might have ordered 4 fitted out with two seats but they are actually modifiable at overhaul level units where the seat and second cockpit can be added or fitted with an extra fuel tank.

It means as long as you get the extra parts you can swap between versions of single seat and twin seat on all three aircraft of that generation/modification.

MiG-29M and MiG-29M2 are essentially the same aircraft and can be changed between the two designations by either fitting two seats or one seat and an extra fuel tank. The MiG-35 is the same and so is the MiG-29KR... both of which can also be in a two or single seat configuration.

The original MiG-29M from the late 1980s could not do this and previous MiG-29s were either single seat with a small canopy or a two seat KUB model with a two seat canopy.

I realize that and I think it's pretty cool while it shows the versatility of that specific aircraft. But don't you think that despite that capability or option that it is a rather cumbersome process? To remove a gas tank and add a functioning backseater would probably be a bit easier than the other way around, having to remove all the wiring and connections for a functioning backseat and then add the tank with the safe plumbing etc.

My guess is that even with that option and even if I'm wrong and it's not as difficult or cumbersome as I think it would be, that the EAF would relegate the ones that are the way the are to remain that way and order more of whatever type they need since it seems they are quite happy with those aircraft.

On another note, what needs to happen is to confirm the local rumors that there are at least 5 Su-35SEs in Egypt and possibly up to 17 units undergoing training in house. What we would LOVE to see at this point is those bad larries to appear in Egyptian colors and insignia to put pressure on a lot of other issues we would love to see resolved to make the EAF a much more potent air force than it already is.

One of those would be to convince the US that is better get on the move and accept the Viper upgrade request for the EAF for at least 145 of the existing F-16s which would entail adding the new SARSs AESA radar and start offering the AIM-120C-7 as well as the AIM-9X and many other beneficial upgrades to one of the US's better regional allies despite its recent partnership and super friendship with Russia. And if not, then it's time to make a really drastic change and put the US almost completely behind it and move solely to European and Russian aircraft and give the US the old heeve hi ho middle finger!

Which BTW, there's a new video in Arabic that suggests that Egypt has put in a very solid request for a large number of Su-57s that makes the Algerian request look like child's play. I've been dreaming of that scenario for a long time and it couldn't have come any sooner.

Hopefully the Russian fellas here will see or hear of that news in one of the reliable Russian networks and announce it. We need to see that big time as well as get going with the Su-35SE so that the number of that aircraft can quickly grow from 30 to 54, possibly 72 and eventually 100+.

I suspect they could buy the planes as singles and buy extra twin seat adaptation kits to convert any they wish to operate at twin seaters.

Removing ejection seats is normal... sometimes you have to replace them or take them out for maintenance or to replace parts, and I would think once it is removed the empty space could be made bigger by having a removable cockpit display system that would enlarge the size of the fuel tank you could fit there.

It has not been modified for this job, but designed from the outset for the rear seat to be removable... it wont be something you do between missions, but if you decide you want all two seaters then you don't have to return all the planes and wait for new planes.

With the original MiG-29 they made them totally different with different sized and shaped canopies which resulted in the twin seat aircraft being a trainer with only a ranging only radar it could not carry the full range of radar guided weapons. This limited the two seaters to being trainers only, unless you loaded them with IR guided R-73s and R-27T or ET missiles and optically guided bombs, but it was still a rather limited military aircraft.

By making them changeable all aircraft can be used as trainers and yet remain fully operational aircraft with an increase in flight range for the single seaters.

All your aircraft can be operational trainers but also fully combat capable and actually better for roles where two crew can do the job better... low level strike... flying at high speed is largely automated but it is still important for a person to concentrate on what is happening and to fly the aircraft, while another person can monitor enemy activity and targets or potential targets...

https://ria.ru/20210720/shugaev-1741881433.html
Do we expect that the additional Su-35 deal is specific to Egypt, as the article confirms, compared to the picture of the factory’s production, and also because the article mentioned that China or Turkey did not contract the fighter

joker88 wrote:

Looks like the Su-35SE on the right is being fitted with something on the bottom of the wingtip rails which makes them NOT the Khibiny pods but rather a different type of missile or guided bomb.  The inner pylon looks like they're fitting R-73 but hopefully the more modern R-74 is what Egypt ordered with this batch.  Still waiting to see the R-27ER!

EDIT: Actually I do think I see a single R-27 on the far inner pylon of that same aircraft's right wing! Anyone else agree with that or disagree and think it's something else? @Gary or @Isos or @LMFS or @AhmedFire?

I do not know because the picture is not clear even after a while, but the jamming system is very visible

But the Khibiny EW pods are mounted on the SIDE of the wingtip rails, not the bottom like it shows on the picture. Usually all munitions like the R-73 are mounted on the bottom of the wingtip rails like whatever those are in the pics. But if they were Khibiny pods, they would be mounted like this:



If they mount a missile, they hang it right to the bottom of the wingtip rail like this:



Which is not what I believe is in the picture you posted which is very interesting. Wonder what it is? But I'm VERY happy to see what appears to be at least a single R-27 on the inner pylon of the right wing!

Because the image is a horizontal projection, filter the image, you will find that it is on the edges, and you also find the distance between the pod and the missile is not large, and this is not customary for loading weights on the wing

The inner pylon looks like they're fitting R-73 but hopefully the more modern R-74 is what Egypt ordered with this batch. Still waiting to see the R-27ER!

Can't tell with the quality of the image, but no matter what the quality the R-74 would be rather hard to distinguish from the R-73 because they are very similar...

T220 optical-electronic target designation container on the Egyptian MiG-29M2

medo wrote:Any informations, when will Egyptian Su-35 finally land in Egypt? For now we only see them sitting in Russia.

We've been told "through the grapevine" that they'll be unveiled rather soon.  The source is someone who claims to be close to the authorities and didn't want to give out any more info than that.  So we just have to take it for what it's worth.

One development that happened recently is quite extraordinary and that is the same one that they did on the Mirage 2000s and that is integrate the Al-Tariq guided missile. Under the CISMOA treaty, this shouldn't be a problem at all and the treaty was signed a few years ago. So either the EAF was able to acquire the source codes for the F-16s to integrate these weapons to them, or they worked out some other deal.

EAF F-16s with Al-Tariq guided missiles integrated onto them which is a major milestone.

Another interesting development of the AIM-7 Sparrow that appeared very quickly during one of the military videos showing a very interesting modification to the front cone of the missile with what appears to be some type of seeker? Perhaps with the recent source codes being given to the EAF and the rumors that 100 block 40 F-16s will be upgraded to block 52 including the final arrival of the AIM-120 as well as some other things that we end up seeing integrations like the Al-Tariq as well as this very interesting AIM-7.



It also makes the SU-35's appearance a bit shaky, to say the least. Let's hope the EAF was able to get all this while giving the US the middle finger on CAATSA at the same time. I also read they're heavily involved with Russian technicians in modifying quite a bit of the avionics on the Su-35s to make them compatible with the western F-16s and Rafales using the locally produced RISC2 data link network

Would be a shame. Egypt needs to look out for itself especially thru all the trials it has gone thru. That said, Russians have seemingly already built the aircraft and they are solid. It would be a shame and I could see Russians being very pissed. Wonder if Egypt is using stuff like the Ethiopian dam and Russia's response as an excuse. Russians will think they were being used to get better deals with the west.

If Egypt doesn't buy the already produced su-35, Russia can just sell them to Iran as a revange for CAATSA.

Rumours say Russia proposed only the su-30 to Iran which wanted Su-35 or su-57. They forbid sells of su-35 and most likely because of Israel/US pressure. Now nothing prevents them of selling those 24 su-35 directly to Iran. This could lead to permanent stop of CAATSA.

TMA1 wrote:Would be a shame. Egypt needs to look out for itself especially thru all the trials it has gone thru. That said, Russians have seemingly already built the aircraft and they are solid. It would be a shame and I could see Russians being very pissed. Wonder if Egypt is using stuff like the Ethiopian dam and Russia's response as an excuse. Russians will think they were being used to get better deals with the west.

No offense to gomig, but the relevance between this missile and Su-35 is rather questionable at best. Plus, same guy said with sources close to the authorities that Su-35 will be unveiled soon in Egypt, then says this.

Rather, it's ridiculous.  BTW, I know many of you don't follow economics closely, but Russia is prime number 1 in opening up and building logistics, assembly plants and manufacturing in Egypt along the Niles special economic zone. So Egypt won't give two poops about CAATSA anyway.

The most likely thing could actually be economics more so. Right now, everyone is feeling a pinch and Egypt isn't excluded. So it's a lot cheaper to make sure they have modern missiles ready than adding expensive Jets. But who knows.

TMA1 wrote:Would be a shame. Egypt needs to look out for itself especially thru all the trials it has gone thru. That said, Russians have seemingly already built the aircraft and they are solid. It would be a shame and I could see Russians being very pissed. Wonder if Egypt is using stuff like the Ethiopian dam and Russia's response as an excuse. Russians will think they were being used to get better deals with the west.

Yes exactly, that's one of the things we saw happen.  While the EAF was trying so hard with France since 2017 to execute the option for 12 more Rafales that was part of the first order of 24, and it was like pulling teeth!  France wouldn't budge or agree to anything.  Then suddenly the deal with the Su-35s is in full swing when Pompeo makes his threats in exchange for F-15s and the EAF tells him no thanks because they considered the Su-35 a far superior aircraft, then suddenly there's a signed deal with France for 30 new Rafales at the lowest price ever!  You can't help but think there's shady business going on.

miketheterrible wrote:No offense to gomig, but the relevance between this missile and Su-35 is rather questionable at best. Plus, same guy said with sources close to the authorities that Su-35 will be unveiled soon in Egypt, then says this.

LOL!  No offense taken, my friend.  You speak the truth, and that's the whole point I was making.  We're getting all these mixed messages with contradicting actions and it's difficult to look at the situation on one side alone and with certainty.  Besides, Egypt is central in the Arab world for rumors international galore lmao.

The relevance is obviously not just this interesting missile, it's the fact that the EAF now most certainly has the source codes for the F-16s because it's integrating Al-Tariq glide missiles on them and not only that, there's news that 100 F-16 Block 40s are in the process of being upgraded to Block 52 to meet the standard of the other 18 block 52s that were ordered back in 2013.  One of them already has been testing with conformal fuel tanks on its back.

Back in the day, when the CISMOA treaty hadn't been signed and Hillary Clinton was the most vocal in congress about Egypt being the worst infringer of 3rd party infractions with things like allowing the Chinese to enter F-16 hangers and take a really good "tour" of the fighter jet etc.  Now they're allowing integration of guided missiles, the upgrade on 100 block 40 aircraft, the modification of the AIM-7 Sparrow from a semi active to most likely an active homing missile and who knows what else.  Where is all this kindness from the US coming from?!  Not to mention the sudden willing from France to supply 30 new Rafales at the most ridiculously discounted price!?  Could it be that we sadly folded to the threats of sanctions through CAATSA?

Then we have all these local news and rumors I mentioned of the avionics being replaced as well as unveiling soon and even several rumors that the EAF will keep the Su-35s and operate them out of Russia lmfao.  We all know that's nothing but a crock of shit, but then it was corrected to them operating out of Al Jufra airbase in Libya, just not in Egypt and somehow that will get the EAF out from under the terms and limits of CAATSA.  How something that ridiculous would do that is beyond me.  They would still belong to the EAF.  So there you go.

The only thing that would solve all these doubts is to see them unveiled and presented out of Cairo West airbase with Egyptian roundels and Tahyia Misr written on the side and a bunch of pilots being met and greeted by President Al-Sisi and then seeing them in their extra large hangers.  Then that would seal the deal entirely!  Until then, we're going to have these doubts and speculations and rumors left and right.

miketheterrible wrote:Rather, it's ridiculous.  BTW, I know many of you don't follow economics closely, but Russia is prime number 1 in opening up and building logistics, assembly plants and manufacturing in Egypt along the Niles special economic zone. So Egypt won't give two poops about CAATSA anyway.

The Dabaa nuclear power plant is the number 1 mega project Russia is involved with.

miketheterrible wrote:The most likely thing could actually be economics more so.  Right now, everyone is feeling a pinch and Egypt isn't excluded.  So it's a lot cheaper to make sure they have modern missiles ready than adding expensive Jets.  But who knows.

There's a lot of truth to that, but it's also other things we don't hear behind closed doors which are probably serious threats from the US.  They're quite known for being able to look you in the face and tell you (ala Mafiosi style) if you don't do a certain thing, they'll rain down eternal pain and suffering like never before, all with a smile.  Who knows if Egypt folded under all that pressure.  Let's hope not and somehow they worked out a deal where they were able to keep the Su-35s as well as all the F-16 upgrades!

Its still speculations based upon assumptions. Never do that. I experienced that the hard way in a professional workplace.

Anyway, Egypt could have very well used third party dealings to buy Russian equipment. Egypt I believe was one of the few third countries that got access to Russia's alternative to swift. Anyway, Russia has automotive plants and tractor plants and other investments going on in Egypt so they are heavily invested. Egypt can easily purchase without CAATSA being in effect.

Also, Egypt could also grease the wheels and offer incentives to US and EU manufacturers as well.

miketheterrible wrote:Its still speculations based upon assumptions. Never do that.

Never do what? It's just a discussion on the current situation. I presented all the issues that made it a dilemma to know for certain what is going on. You make it sound like I broke a law or something!? lol

miketheterrible wrote:I experienced that the hard way in a professional workplace.

Well, this is a forum, hardly the workplace. Not sure the analogy applies, or even what was done lol. The posts shouldn't be taken with such seriousness anyway, they're just discussions with points that support the current situation with the Su-35 in Egypt from both sides. Nothing less and nothing more.

The end of the saying about the fighter, the first batch was delivered at the end of 2020, with 5 fighters, and the second defense was 7 fighters, and it only appeared in the army’s display in the new capital with other weapons
The MiG deal was done in late 2015 and did not appear until 2019 in the Egyptian lands. Everyone wants to see the fighter in Egypt
And I am one of the people who confirm that it is in Egypt with many sources that cannot be published. America itself knows its existence and this was mentioned by the Congress itself and it did nothing because India is the same with regard to the s400

Things are not measured by pictures, otherwise the S-300 has appeared so far
or the Batsons for the Jarjoub base
Egypt does what it wants if America imposes sanctions, it will not take protection for crossing the Suez Canal or the airspace and working against America’s interests in the region. Imagine the Strait of Hormuz, the Arabian Gulf, the Suez Canal and the Red Sea, whichever is left best for america