Egyptian Air Force (EAF)

Gomig-21 wrote:And it also appears that the F-15 deal is on the verge of collapsing because the EAF is not happy with the US' offer, which entails 24 - 32 Advanced F-15s, but with an older AIM-120B, stripped advanced EW suite and an older much less capable one replacing it and all sorts of basing and ridiculous flight conditions imposed in the deal.

EAF Lieutenant General basically told the US reps that it was an insult that the US would offer such a horrible aircraft with all those ridiculous conditions and that the EAF's MiG-29M/M2s would be better aircraft than the proposed F-15s. So why even purchase them in that case when they could get not only the Su-35SE, but also many more MiG-29M/M2s or MiG-35s and have much better aircraft in both cases as well as no restrictions whatsoever.  Why the US wants a say in which bases the 2 squadrons of F-15s would be flying out of is beyond me.  Can't figure that out.

So it looks like the EAF will most likely tell the US to go kick rocks and pound sand at the same time and finish the Su-35SE deal and maybe start getting the completely finished ones delivered.

Plus on top of all these negotiations, the EAF quietly went out and struck a deal with Leonardo and Finmeccanica for 24 Eruofighter Typhoons along with 20 or 24 M-346 Arimacchi trainer aircraft that they've been negotiating on for the last 3 years.  This was part of the mega Italian offer for 6 Bergamini FREMMs, 24 EFTs, 24 M-346s, 20 Fallaj OPV offshore patrol corvettes and 1 spy satellite worth about 12 billion Euros.  All this under the nose of the Americans whom are probably shocked and pissed about this.  But their silly and insulting offer for the F-15s was apparently a "take it or leave it" according to Tactical Report.  If that's the case, the EAF will undoubtedly not accept it and why they announced this EFT deal with Leonardo right at the same time.  Times a changing it seems.

The F-15 deal stall claims is just the usual rumors that pop out whenever there's a deal in its final phase Also Tactical Report has zero credibility, don't take their reports seriously.

It is credible.  Nothing indicates it's not, as most of the elements explained have been quoted locally, specifically the comments from the EAF LTC.  Everything makes complete sense since McKenzie came out and made the announcement that the US was going to supply Egypt with F-15s as if it was a done deal, then the Su-35s deliveries were paused and the "take it or leave it" ultimatum by the US is just like them.

I'm in my mid-50s and I've been around for a while and remember a lot of the deals with the US and they truly are very unreasonable.  They also made the basing conditions on the Saudi F-15s as well as the Qatari ones, so that's clear as day expected.

Same with the possible Typhoon and M-346 trainers.  All info about those aircraft in the TR article is aligned with Italian newspapers and online releases.  Saying they have zero credibility is hardly accurate.

EAF MiG-29M landing in Saudi Arabia for Faisal 12 exercise.  They seem to be having problems with their canopies not seating very well and buckling a little in the center.  They're also using what appears to be a locally produced bracket to support the large canopy when it's fully open and jet is parked.





There's that orange bracket they're using to help hold up that enormous canopy that's probably putting a lot of pressure on the hinges.  Another reason why the canopy might be buckling like it is could very well be from this bracket.  I'm assuming the way they install it is to have the canopy automatically raised to full open, then stick the bracket in and drop the canopy manually onto the bracket to hold it in place.  That could very well pry the sides and cause that frame to stick out a bit past the fuselage as you can clearly see it happening on the first pic of the MiG landing.  





Still an absolute beauty of an aircraft and apparently the EAF is super happy with this fighter.  Pilot and commander testimonies as well as usage is very obvious as to how much they like it.  I expect the numbers to increase exponentially with MiG-35s once things settle in Ukraine and with the lousy F-15 deal.





I'm also of the mindset that the EAF bumps off the Su-35SE and put an order in for the Su-57.  Su-57M is the export version?  If so, then that's what they should do, raise the number of MiG-35s with the AESA radar and jump right into the Su-57.  The Su-35 seems unnecessary at this point if they can move onto the 5th gen platform.

Could be wind protection. Too much wind and this canopy will fly with iranian f-14s.

Has EAF said anything about mig-29 vs rafales capabilities or against for f-16 and mirages ? Anything on egyptian forums ?

Would be nice to have some feedbacks about that.

Isos wrote:Could be wind protection. Too much wind and this canopy will fly with iranian f-14s.

Possible, but whatever the reason is, if it's causing this below, then something isn't right.  I think there is some problem that started with this buckling and then they created those brackets to support the heavy weight of the canopy.

Do you think there is a problem here, or not?



To me, it's is very rare to see that much unevenness along the straight edge where it should be very flush just like at the rear where it's hinged.  That part sits perfectly and so should the rest of the canopy.

Isos wrote:Has EAF said anything about mig-29 vs rafales capabilities or against for f-16 and mirages ? Anything on egyptian forums ?

Would be nice to have some feedbacks about that.

Not that I've seen.  The only thing that was brought up was the article about the Rafale's SPECTRA & EW system jamming the IRBIS-E radar.  When I brought that up here I was eaten alive looool.  That's ok, I can take it!

There was another bit of news talking about the Su-35SE deal and if Egypt will give the US the middle finger and still proceed with it and it seemed to suggest that will happen.

One of the more intriguing things that appeared in that article is that one of the reasons the EAF has its eyes set on the Su-35SE is for several reasons, one being the AESA L-band linear radars on the leading edge wings (or actually in the slats/flaps) and how they, along with the IRST, would help detect the F-35 in the "neighborhood" as well as provide the EAF with a heavy, long-range platform for air superiority.  

But the thing that stood out to me the most was it claimed the EAF's MiG-35M/M2s have the R-77 (RVV-AE) and the R-27 which the latter we have not seen at all and would have by now, especially in the induction ceremony where they laid out all the weapons for that aircraft and the R-27 was not present.  But then it said that the Su-35SE would in fact carry the R-77-1 (RVV-SD) and the R-27 which makes me think these MiG-29M/M2s are not capable of firing those longer ranged missiles, for whatever reason, either the Zhuk-ME or data linkage or whatever, hence why they never purchased either of those missiles with these MiGs.

https://www.defenseworld.net/2021/11/27/understanding-egypts-54-rafale-and-24-su-35-jets-procurement.html

I certainly agree there is a problem with the canopy and I am guessing this is a stop-gap measure until UAC can come by and do some clever modifications to the canopies. And yes the mig-29m is one of my favorite fighters. Graceful and fleet of foot and deadly. Would love to read pilot comments on it. Essentially the mig-29m is equal to a good f-16 block 52. Extremely capable. Once the new afar radar and jammer upgrades are put in place it will be like the brand new vipers in quality. I love the Egyptian airforce colors and the awesome array of fighters you guys have. In these tense times it is always good to have a selection of complex weapon systems from around the world.

I also love the datalink and comms system your airforce designed for communication throughout the fighter fleet.

Oh I didn't notice that. Looks like a terrible default. Is it only this aircraft or all of them ? It could be just an accident, the canopy fell instead of closing slowly and normally.

The angle of photography is the one who prepared for that

But the thing that stood out to me the most was it claimed the EAF's MiG-35M/M2s have the R-77 (RVV-AE) and the R-27 which the latter we have not seen at all and would have by now, especially in the induction ceremony where they laid out all the weapons for that aircraft and the R-27 was not present. But then it said that the Su-35SE would in fact carry the R-77-1 (RVV-SD) and the R-27 which makes me think these MiG-29M/M2s are not capable of firing those longer ranged missiles, for whatever reason, either the Zhuk-ME or data linkage or whatever, hence why they never purchased either of those missiles with these MiGs.

The MiG-29M is able to carry the full range of AAMs AFAIK and are not limited in any way.

R-27E models, which are the larger longer ranged versions traditionally were carried only by the Su-27s, with the smaller lighter R-27 missiles being the standard BVR on the MiG-29.

The longer ranged missiles (R-27E) were intended for use against heavier aircraft like strike aircraft and also support aircraft like inflight refuelling planes.

Regarding the aircraft with the buckled canopy, it might have something to do with the heat in Saudi Arabia... the orange support system looks like a quick patch solution and actually the use of such a support is what is likely causing the buckling because the canopy would not be designed to support any weight where the orange brace applies pressure and support.

Considering potential problems like suffocating the crew or not being able to use AB for more than 90s or your tail falls off... it does not seem to be an insurmountable problem... a bit of reinforcing and improved hinge mechanism design.

Gomig-21 wrote:It is credible.  Nothing indicates it's not, as most of the elements explained have been quoted locally, specifically the comments from the EAF LTC.  Everything makes complete sense since McKenzie came out and made the announcement that the US was going to supply Egypt with F-15s as if it was a done deal, then the Su-35s deliveries were paused and the "take it or leave it" ultimatum by the US is just like them.

I'm in my mid-50s and I've been around for a while and remember a lot of the deals with the US and they truly are very unreasonable.  They also made the basing conditions on the Saudi F-15s as well as the Qatari ones, so that's clear as day expected.

Same with the possible Typhoon and M-346 trainers.  All info about those aircraft in the TR article is aligned with Italian newspapers and online releases.  Saying they have zero credibility is hardly accurate.

EAF MiG-29M landing in Saudi Arabia for Faisal 12 exercise.  They seem to be having problems with their canopies not seating very well and buckling a little in the center.  They're also using what appears to be a locally produced bracket to support the large canopy when it's fully open and jet is parked.





There's that orange bracket they're using to help hold up that enormous canopy that's probably putting a lot of pressure on the hinges.  Another reason why the canopy might be buckling like it is could very well be from this bracket.  I'm assuming the way they install it is to have the canopy automatically raised to full open, then stick the bracket in and drop the canopy manually onto the bracket to hold it in place.  That could very well pry the sides and cause that frame to stick out a bit past the fuselage as you can clearly see it happening on the first pic of the MiG landing.  





Still an absolute beauty of an aircraft and apparently the EAF is super happy with this fighter.  Pilot and commander testimonies as well as usage is very obvious as to how much they like it.  I expect the numbers to increase exponentially with MiG-35s once things settle in Ukraine and with the lousy F-15 deal.





I'm also of the mindset that the EAF bumps off the Su-35SE and put an order in for the Su-57.  Su-57M is the export version?  If so, then that's what they should do, raise the number of MiG-35s with the AESA radar and jump right into the Su-57.  The Su-35 seems unnecessary at this point if they can more onto the 5th gen platform.

I mean all military bloggers that I follow agree that Tactical report is not a credible source and publishes BS most of the time

Isos wrote:Oh I didn't notice that. Looks like a terrible default. Is it only this aircraft or all of them ? It could be just an accident, the canopy fell instead of closing slowly and normally.

Sorry late reply.  No, definitely not all of them, just really obvious with that one.  The rest look like they do sit a bit proud of the fuselage, but nothing like this which lends me to think that's just the way they're seated in general, except this one which seems to have an obvious problem.  Nothing that can't be repaired of course.

Maybe the next batch of MiG-35s will have a permanent hydraulic lift in the center of the canopy that deploys with the opening and closing of the hinges to support that massive canopy which I can only assume weighs quite a bit, as all canopies do, instead of that homemade bracket.

Take a look at this beauty.  Not necessarily a new pic, but one that hasn't been posted before.  This is arguably the most eye-pleasing, beautiful aircraft ever built.  A close edging to the venerable MiG-21! Especially in this camo scheme, wow!



Who wouldn't like to get a hold of all those manuals they're looking at!  
Looks like the landing gear retraction is being tested.



@Gary , remember the convo we were having about the MiG-29M/M2 backseater's avionics and what it entails etc., well, I came across this pic of the EAF conducting buddy-buddy refueling and found it rather interesting as it's taken by the rear seater but only shows the top part of that setup.  Looking at those canisters, what do we suppose those are, the oxygen tanks or the gas canisters for the front ejection seat rocket booster?  I thought it was pretty interesting.



Those Su-35s will look pretty slick flying with these guys.

Another look at one of these beauties and canopy looks perfectly seated.

Sorry late reply.  No, definitely not all of them, just really obvious with that one.  The rest look like they do sit a bit proud of the fuselage, but nothing like this which lends me to think that's just the way they're seated in general, except this one which seems to have an obvious problem.  Nothing that can't be repaired of course.

If not all are effected then perhaps the one instance was because of one accident that perhaps led to the introduction of the orange support structure to prevent further repeats of the accident.

The Single seat and two seat models of the MiG-29K and MiG-29M and MiG-35 all use the same canopy so I suspect if there is a problem with hinge failure that it was due to a specific circumstance... perhaps the supports don't work as well in the heat of Saudi Arabia and the hydraulic or air pressure supports failed in a way that led to the canopy coming down too fast and therefore buckling it which would lead to some sort of support being put in place to prevent repetition...  a patch till a more permanent solution could be found for all the aircraft.

Any upgrades or changes would be applied to basically all Modern new made MiG-29s so it is worth fixing.

Maybe the next batch of MiG-35s will have a permanent hydraulic lift in the center of the canopy that deploys with the opening and closing of the hinges to support that massive canopy which I can only assume weighs quite a bit, as all canopies do, instead of that homemade bracket.

The size of the canopy suggests to me it already has hydraulic supports, and is not just a hinge holding it open... but sitting on a tarmac in 50 degree plus temperatures with no support strut taking the weight might have led to a collapse and the visible damage... leading to the orange support strut as a short term fix to be followed by investigation and more permanent solution.

Looking at those canisters, what do we suppose those are, the oxygen tanks or the gas canisters for the front ejection seat rocket booster?  I thought it was pretty interesting.

I am not up to date with the latest models of their ejection seats... I do remember drogue shoots launched from the top of their ejection seat to stabilise the seat and prevent tumbling after ejection, but they look like they have side facing rocket thrusters too, which might be fired after ejection to throw the seat clear of the aircraft.

It is a Zero Zero ejection seat so even sitting on the runway stationary this seat will drag the crewman up and out of the cockpit and the off in one direction or another for the parachute to deploy and land away from the potentially burning wreckage of the aircraft (ie the reason for ejecting in the first place).

But equally the MiG could be inverted at 600km per hour and rolling rapidly descending fast towards the ground so the seat has to be able to get clear of the aircraft and stabilise itself before releasing its own parachute to slow down further.... ejecting at 20km altitude in a MiG-31 the crewman would remain with the seat connected to an emergency oxygen supply inside the seat till both the man and the seat had descended to much lower safer altitudes for the seat to separate and the crewmans parachute to open and allow them to land safely.

Interestingly on the Ka-50s ejection seat it has rockets located there that actually launch first and drag cables behind them that haul the seat out of the cockpit... the purpose being if the main rotor blades have not been severed by explosive bolts then the cables will be snagged by any remaining blades and the seat will be dragged sideways and flung out near horizontally instead of upwards through the remaining blades and sliced and diced.... but obviously this is not a concern for a fighter pilot or crewman.

Nice photos BTW.... notice the squiggly lines in the curved part of the canopy on those Hokums on those carriers.... that is det cord... detonation cord... if the crew has to eject explosive bolts will shear off the main rotor blades (all 6) and those det cords will also be detonated to shatter the canopy so the ejection seats can launch directly upwards through the canopy without needing to wait a second or so for them to be ejected clear... it makes ejection faster and safer... but would shower you in canopy bits before ejection.

Report of a Rafale that crashed during training. It's the second egyptian rafale that crashed. It seems they don't like the heat of desertic countries.

Isos wrote:Report of a Rafale that crashed during training. It's the second egyptian rafale that crashed. It seems they don't like the heat of desertic countries.

Hope it was worth the $150M.

Isos wrote:Report of a Rafale that crashed during training. It's the second egyptian rafale that crashed. It seems they don't like the heat of desertic countries.

Not a Rafale, but unfortunately an F-16.

We were having fun with this unfortunate event on another forum because it was actually an F-16 that crashed near Port Said and not a Rafale.  Notice that tweet says "likely a Rafale"? looool.  So why assume it's accurate?

There was another short clip of someone who was very close to the crash and filmed the wreckage while it was still burning and you can clearly see the orange colored swaths on one of the wings.  The Rafales don't have the orange swaths.  That video has since been taken off of twitter because the one who posted it got really paranoid about the authorities coming after him loool.

But no, it wasn't a Rafale but an F-16 and the pilot ejected safely.  If that video pops up again somehow, I'll post it and you'll be able to clearly see both, the orange swath and the pilot parachuting to ground.  

You also have to understand the "peoples' internet war" between some of the gulf countries and Egypt.  Notice the author of that tweet is from Qatar? loool.  

The other problem that causes all of this is the lack of transparency from the Egyptian MoD.  Instead of just coming out and saying what it was and giving as much information so that there are none of these crazy accusations and rumors and all that crap, they'll only say "Unfortunately an air force jet has crashed outside of Port Said" and then mention the pilot ejected safely etc. but that's it!  Then the rumors fly like crazy.

BTW, the first Rafale that crashed is actually being replaced in the 2nd order of 30 Rafales coming.  Dassault has released a PDF for its marketing and exports and lists the new Egyptian order will be 30 aircraft + 1 to complete the 2015 order.  So that's good news that they're replacing that one loss.

MiG has also replaced the 2 MiG-29M/M2s that have crashed.  All this terrible news actually has a silver lining in that the EAF is clearly performing a lot of training and flying a lot of hours in these aircraft.  

Yeah, do guard against GCC twitter troll tweets lol.  Eventually this crash will be listed on F16 . net.

Could you share the picture ?

Isos wrote:Could you share the picture ?

It was a short video on a tweet.  It has since been taken down probably because the guy who took the video suddenly got really scared or something, especially since he was talking in it, too.  

If you notice, there are hardly any pictures taken by Egyptian civilians of any military platforms or exercises etc.  Most of the pics we get are by military officials only or military sanctioned journalists or by other militaries performing exercises with the EGY military.  Unfortunately, it's because some who did take pics have been temporarily detained (even arrested) and questioned as to why they're taking pictures of the military.  It's a brutal sense of paranoia that they're being spied on and so it becomes frowned upon.  I'm guessing that is most likely what happened to that tweet.

But I think it will appear again in time, somehow, or maybe even stills from the video.  Those Qatari tweets came out a couple of days ago and I'm sure many Egyptians are pissed off at the lie and so they'll somehow chase that video down.  As soon as I get my paws on it I'll post it and tag you.

Broski wrote:Hope it was worth the $150M.

That's the total value of the contract of $4.5 billion divided by 30 = 150 million.  Except there's obviously training, logistical support, spare parts (I believe another pair of simulators) PLUS the additional single Rafale to replace the one that crashed and of course, a large batch of AASM HAMMER PGMs, MICA IR & ER, SCALP-EG CMs AND supposedly a batch of Meteor missiles.  Emphasis on "supposedly".  

Once you factor all those, it comes out to less than that.  The first batch was approximately $80 million per aircraft, but that was because it was the first export deal for the Rafale and it was lumped with other naval assets etc., so they got a sweet deal.  This one is certainly higher but not 150M each.

EDIT: I just looked it up and under the new contract for the 30 + 1 Rafales, the unit cost is €95 million which equals $99,066,000 per aircraft. So basically about $100 million per aircraft which is still ridiculously expensive. Friggin' French.

Rafale is a great fighter, but indeed expensive.

Gomig-21 wrote:

Broski wrote:Hope it was worth the $150M.

That's the total value of the contract of $4.5 billion divided by 30 = 150 million.  Except there's obviously training, logistical support, spare parts (I believe another pair of simulators) PLUS the additional single Rafale to replace the one that crashed and of course, a large batch of AASM HAMMER PGMs, MICA IR & ER, SCALP-EG CMs AND supposedly a batch of Meteor missiles.  Emphasis on "supposedly".  

Once you factor all those, it comes out to less than that.  The first batch was approximately $80 million per aircraft, but that was because it was the first export deal for the Rafale and it was lumped with other naval assets etc., so they got a sweet deal.  This one is certainly higher but not 150M each.

EDIT: I just looked it up and under the new contract for the 30 + 1 Rafales, the unit cost is €95 million which equals $99,066,000 per aircraft.  So basically about $100 million per aircraft which is still ridiculously expensive.  Friggin' French.

Do you still circulate these rumors about the fall of Rafale, and lie the Egyptian military spokesman and the Egyptian authorities?

https://arabic.rt.com/middle_east/997771-%D8%A3%D9%86%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%A1-%D8%B9%D9%86-%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1%D8%B9-%D8%B7%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%AD%D8%B1%D8%A8%D9%8A-%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1%D9%8A-%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%A6%D8%AF-%D9%85%D9%82%D8%A7%D8%AA%D9%84%D8%A9-%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%81%D8%A7%D9%84/

Report of a Rafale that crashed during training. It's the second egyptian rafale that crashed. It seems they don't like the heat of desertic countries.

Good to see the pilot survived, machines can be replaced easily enough... hopefully after they debrief him and check the black boxes they can work out exactly what happened.

Hope it was worth the $150M.

At the end of the day planes crash... even the expensive ones... all you can do is investigate and work out what happened and try to prevent that problem or situation from costing you more aircraft.

Not a Rafale, but unfortunately an F-16.

Well less expensive, but the response remains the same... talk to the pilot and look at the contents of the black box and work out what went wrong.

That video has since been taken off of twitter because the one who posted it got really paranoid about the authorities coming after him loool.

But no, it wasn't a Rafale but an F-16 and the pilot ejected safely. If that video pops up again somehow, I'll post it and you'll be able to clearly see both, the orange swath and the pilot parachuting to ground.

I hope the Egyptian authorities are not that paranoid... they should be asking for the footage for the investigation, but not hunting it down in a negative way... that video might provide useful information and nobody should be afraid of the truth... planes crash, especially during training and getting their hands on video would be more valuable than hunting down people with such footage and driving it all underground.

Anyway... glad the pilot is OK.

The other problem that causes all of this is the lack of transparency from the Egyptian MoD. Instead of just coming out and saying what it was and giving as much information so that there are none of these crazy accusations and rumors and all that crap, they'll only say "Unfortunately an air force jet has crashed outside of Port Said" and then mention the pilot ejected safely etc. but that's it! Then the rumors fly like crazy.

To be fair it might not be totally clear about what happened so being fully transparent straight away might not even be possible, but certainly trying to hide the facts is pointless in this day and age... when I was a teenager it took time to process film from a camera and if no one published your photo in a paper or magazine which would need to be posted in to the newspaper or magazine then it didn't spread very fast very quickly... only a few dedicated types walked around with cameras... these days everyone has a phone and every phone has a decent camera built in.

All this terrible news actually has a silver lining in that the EAF is clearly performing a lot of training and flying a lot of hours in these aircraft.

Planes crash unfortunately... especially when they are being used, but the pilots seem to be getting rescued and hopefully investigations will find any design faults or issues with tactics or climate or whatever is causing the crashes... not much else they can do really.

EDIT: I just looked it up and under the new contract for the 30 + 1 Rafales, the unit cost is €95 million which equals $99,066,000 per aircraft. So basically about $100 million per aircraft which is still ridiculously expensive. Friggin' French.

They charged the Indians 8.4 billion for 36 Rafales, which is about $233 million per aircraft... but AFAIK that includes support and equipment and spares contract for 10 years of operations... which normally at least doubles the cost of the aircraft so we are talking about a cost of 115 million per airframe which is still no cheap and still rather more than they paid for their Su-30MKIs actually...

https://imgur.com/a/Z9WtbM3

@Isos , take a look at the video.  Notice when the camera zooms in you can clearly see the orange colored ID swath mark on part of the wing that is still very visible.  As mentioned before, the Rafales don't have those but the F-16s do.  Also, that area of patrol belongs to one of the F-16 squadrons which are the most numerous aircraft in the EAF with a current count of approximately 160 units.  As a matter of fact, we just saw pictures taken by the USAF of 4 original F-16Bs, the 2 seaters that arrived to Egypt in 1982!  They only received 8 of the B two-seat models and to still have them operational and performing air to air refueling quals is really incredible.  I'll post pics of them from last week's air to air refueling exercise with the USAF a bit later and also the black & whites of the day they arrived to Cairo.

Isos wrote:Could you share the picture ?

Play the video and look closely at the orange swath and a little beyond it on the light grey color of the wing, you can even see the EGY roundel. The grey color of the F-16s is much lighter than that of the Rafale but the orange is the definitive proof.

None of the videos are working for me... I should upgrade my OS...