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    Russian population

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:51 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Even the Mongol Empire was divided up, with Kublai Khan as it's nominal head.
    The largest nation on Earth can stay together only if it federalizes, otherwise there will be separatism, civil war, & break up.
    The USSR failed to update its system; the Russian Federation isn't a true federation, with all governors appointed or sacked by Moscow.

    What the fuck does this have to do with Russian population?

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:06 pm

    It'll be reduced or at least not increase from the internal strife during & after the breakup, if it occurs. Look at disintegrating Ukraine-Ms left & Ks killed.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:39 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:It'll be reduced or at least not increase from the internal strife during & after the breakup, if it occurs. Look at disintegrating Ukraine-Ms left & Ks killed.

    What are you ranting about? Were you sniffing glue?

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:53 pm

    I'm just answering ur stupid ?. Pl. refrain from making derogatory remarks.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:26 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:I'm just answering ur stupid ?. Pl. refrain from making derogatory remarks.

    No you are one who is stupid

    Either start making sense or stop clogging the forum

    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:39 pm

    u r not a moderator, so fuck off!
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:05 am

    I am a moderator and on the previous page I distinctly said to behave and stop the personal insults or there will be temporary bans, so you both put me in an awkward position because if I don't give you both temporary bans it makes me look weak and ineffectual.

    Personally I don't if people think I am weak or ineffectual, there are always rules but the important thing is how they are enforced.

    That is why us mods get the enormous money we get paid to give up our normal lives to keep the peace here... Twisted Evil

    This is an emotive and emotional subject so I will make this a final warning you can disagree even without evidence or links to proof... opinion is something you are entitled to, but opinion without reason is dangerous... any more problems, tantrums, personal attacks and I will simply lock this thread because members are not mature enough to hold a sensible non confrontational discussion about it.

    Are we clear?

    Of course there might be bans included in the locking of the thread depending on what happens too.

    GarryB
    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:04 am

    I believe it has been discussed previously that Russia’s population will see yet another decline in the period between 2015 - 2025 and then start to increase again, still this is a disturbing development and Russian authorities needs to do more to increase ethnic Russian population and Russify the rest of the country’s non ethnic Russian population. A strong Russian identity is what will keep the country unified for the next thousand years.



    Russia’s Natural Population Decline to Hit 11-Year Record in 2019

    Russia’s natural population decline will set an 11-year record this year as the country’s demographic crisis shows no signs of letting up, the RBC news website reported Friday.

    Russia’s overall population totaled 146.7 million in January-September 2019, the State Statistics Service Rosstat said in a report last week. While migrant inflows had offset its natural population decline in previous years, in 2018, Russia’s total population dropped for the first time in a decade as migration numbers hit record lows.

    In the first 10 months of this year, deaths outnumbered live births by 259,600, RBC cited Rosstat data as saying. It was the highest natural population decline since 2008, when deaths outnumbered births by 362,000.

    “Nothing will change until the end of the year, [and] Russia’s population will shrink,” RBC quoted Olga Chudinovskykh, a professor at Moscow State University’s economics department, as saying.

    Migrants are unlikely to come to Russia in greater numbers in November and December, Chudinovskykh told the outlet, meaning Russia’s total population is on track to decline for the second year in a row in 2019.

    The United Nations has predicted that Russia’s population could halve to fewer than 84 million people by 2100.

    Meanwhile, Russian authorities have said that they expect Russia’s population to resume natural growth in 2023-2024.

    President Vladimir Putin last year pledged to allocate $8.6 billion on programs including mortgage subsidies and payouts to families to encourage Russians to have more children. His government is also considering attracting migrants from Russian-speaking countries over the next several years to offset the country’s population decline.

    “This demographic hole that the president himself and other leaders in the social sector have talked about repeatedly is at its apex,” RBC quoted the Kremlin’s spokesman Dmitry Peskov as saying Friday.

    “The situation is certainly very unpleasant,” he added.
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    Karl Haushofer


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    Post  Karl Haushofer Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:29 am

    Cumulative effect of the 1990s is coming true now as there are a record low number of women in Russia who are in a child-bearing age. But a bigger collapse can be avoided if there fertility rate can be risen to close to 2. This is a major task, as currently it is only about 1,5.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:26 pm

    I think a lot of people are over reacting to a natural thing... they can't change what happened in the 1990s... all they can do is set up a stable strong intelligent democracy that makes people of child bearing age think it would be worth bringing another life in to this world.

    Numbers are not a thread... they have the capacity to slaughter billions if they need to use it and in some weird alternative universe where say India and China got together and invaded Russia to seize land, I don't think they would struggle with a purely conventional defence force but with nukes I think they could easily defend territory an enemy wants to take in one piece rather than obliterate with nukes.

    The UKs population wasn't that big these last few centuries when their navy dominated much of the worlds oceans and France and other European powers didn't require numbers to dominate the countries they colonised and dominated and exploited... and right now the US has been dominating the whole planet with barely two to three times Russias population and lets face it a lot of Americas population make little difference to its international power one way or the other...

    Large populations have advantages but also enormous problems come with that too...
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:45 pm

    GarryB wrote:I think a lot of people are over reacting to a natural thing... they can't change what happened in the 1990s... all they can do is set up a stable strong intelligent democracy that makes people of child bearing age think it would be worth bringing another life in to this world.

    Numbers are not a thread... they have the capacity to slaughter billions if they need to use it and in some weird alternative universe where say India and China got together and invaded Russia to seize land, I don't think they would struggle with a purely conventional defence force but with nukes I think they could easily defend territory an enemy wants to take in one piece rather than obliterate with nukes.

    The UKs population wasn't that big these last few centuries when their navy dominated much of the worlds oceans and France and other European powers didn't require numbers to dominate the countries they colonised and dominated and exploited... and right now the US has been dominating the whole planet with barely two to three times Russias population and lets face it a lot of Americas population make little difference to its international power one way or the other...

    Large populations have advantages but also enormous problems come with that too...

    Exactly.

    Plus they cannot force woman to pop babies. Its third world nations that produce the most children even if there are no benefit for them in terms of government hand outs.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:59 am

    The fact that educated people tend to have fewer children suggests to me that fewer children is actually a good sign... it makes sense to be to have fewer kids and then focus on looking after those kids properly and giving them a long healthy life...
    Tsavo Lion
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    Post  Tsavo Lion Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:13 pm

    The Urals and Siberia may be empty. Russians migrate to large cities
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:33 pm

    Russia is currently spending a rather large amount of money to build runways and roads and rail links in the far north and the far east.

    Plans to support the north sea route from Asia to Europe also means northern ports will be revitalised and the towns near those ports will grow and develop.

    As the populations increase problems associated with living there like transport and heat and comfortable accommodation can be solved, and the enormous wealth of the region can be exploited and developed.

    People leave regions because there is no work or no work that pays a living wage... mining jobs are usually well paid... and when the miners get paid and go in to town then they will want to spend their money... towns will need all sorts of people from barbers and dentists and everything else you need in life....
    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:07 am

    The hysteria about population decline is based on 18th century notions that population means power. This has not been true since WWII.
    Today, a few good missiles can achieve what 100,000s of thousands of soldiers couldn't in the past. It would actually be better to have
    fewer children raised in poverty. The only downside is that single child families may result (not guaranteed) in the "spoiling" of the child.
    But that is hard to compare to the sibling strife seen in multi-child families. Maybe having "naive" children who do not how to effectively
    lie and backstab would actually be better.

    Regular
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    Post  Regular Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:31 pm

    kvs wrote:The hysteria about population decline is based on 18th century notions that population means power.   This has not been true since WWII.  
    Today, a few good missiles can achieve what 100,000s of thousands of soldiers couldn't in the past.    It would actually be better to have
    fewer children raised in poverty.   The only downside is that single child families may result (not guaranteed) in the "spoiling" of the child.
    But that is hard to compare to the sibling strife seen in multi-child families.   Maybe having "naive" children who do not how to effectively
    lie and backstab would actually be better.


    Russia is not that bad when it comes to population - there's less workforce for menial tasks, especially in big cities. This has to be outsourced for some time.
    Homosovieticus people who never transitioned are dying out, so less mouths to feed.
    They will have less headaches from "immortal pensioners" and flooding immigrants.

    Big population is only good thing if country has decent education system and prospects to employ them. Currently, such utopia doesn't exist.

    Automatisation will make population near irrelevant, the surplus will starve and the lucky ones - will get UBI and live in commieblocks.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:06 am

    Yeah, industrialisation was also going to eliminate jobs too, but what it did do was eliminate the mindless manual jobs that no one wants anyway.

    Automation does not mean Judgement day when machines can make machines and humans are obsolete... the fact is that today with 3D printing machines and computers vastly superior to those shown in any Terminator movie, you still couldn't sustain an artificial population without human support in that system.

    Jobs wont disappear... they will just change, and hopefully some of the more dangerous and damaging occupations will either be eliminated or made safer...

    Of course the real threat to people comes from people... recently read an article that identified the serious problem with modern robots... seems too many are white... In the same article it mentioned the supremacy of the new quantum computers they are developing... it even mentioned that because quantum computers work differently there are some problems they can solve that you can't really even attempt on a conventional computer. They mentioned a problem given to a test quantum computer that took 2 minutes to solve which they described as being so complex that it would take a current supercomputer about 10,000 years to process...

    Anyway the objection was the use of the word Supremacy... it has connotations of white domination of other cultures and ethnic groups and colonialism and all that crap...
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:11 pm

    Strong push towards increasing Russian population is being made

    Putin: Pay maternity capital from the first-born and pay off the mortgage for the third child
    https://topcor.ru/12736-putin-platit-materinskij-kapital-s-pervenca-i-gasit-ipoteku-za-tretego-rebenka.html?utm_source=politobzor.net


    Putin proposes monthly payments for children aged 3-7 starting January 2020
    https://tass.com/economy/1108739
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    par far


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    Post  par far Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:21 pm

    Viktor wrote:Strong push towards increasing Russian population is being made

    Putin: Pay maternity capital from the first-born and pay off the mortgage for the third child
    https://topcor.ru/12736-putin-platit-materinskij-kapital-s-pervenca-i-gasit-ipoteku-za-tretego-rebenka.html?utm_source=politobzor.net


    Putin proposes monthly payments for children aged 3-7 starting January 2020
    https://tass.com/economy/1108739



    This is great news that steps are being taken to increase the population.

    One thing that Russia has to be careful about is don't allow migrants into the country to get advantage of the system like they do in the west.
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:08 pm

    par far wrote:

    This is great news that steps are being taken to increase the population.

    One thing that Russia has to be careful about is don't allow migrants into the country to get advantage of the system like they do in the west.  

    Russia will improve its fertility rate. Let's assume there will grow form 1,7 to 2,2 it is still about keeping the same population. You need immigration to have economy growing.
    Juts to manage wisely.


    Look at Australia or NZ.
    Viktor
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    Post  Viktor Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:28 pm

    I think there is no immigration problem by itself. If the immigration flow is of such scale that domestic culture can easily absorb by means of adjustment its benefits will be considered

    as good but if the scale of the immigration influences domestic culture in a way that it changes it in a unpredictable manner it will be considered bad.

    So the thinking goes along the perception of adjustment vs unpredictable change.

    Russia is a rapidly developing country and needs large workforce so faced with the implications of liberal policies of the 90ies it makes sense to embrace controlled immigration and

    allow merit based citizenship for hard working good people who feel gratitude for the opportunity given and are willing to give some back in return with all the others kick out.
    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:42 pm

    yup, that's precisely how I see it. Otherwise you need "Nigerian" fertility rates to keep up with population growth Cool .
    AlfaT8
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    Post  AlfaT8 Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:24 am

    Oh god, i have heard it all before.

    Welfare will lead to infertility, that will cause more migration and eventually the fall of the country from within.

    That's why any welfare scheme must be well managed, in particular with keeping the family unit whole, instead of using it as some replacement for the husband.
    And destroying the family.

    If you want higher fertility above 2.2, then as it always has been and always will be, you will have put pressure on the Women.
    And give as many benefits as possible to the Man.

    I know a lot of people here like to believe otherwise, and cherry pick certain regions in the country to make there case, but i have seen the fertility rates in the West.
    And i know Welfare isn't remotely a solution.

    Hopefully, the Russians will manage theirs better.
    But i wouldn't hold me breath.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:39 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:yup, that's precisely how I see it. Otherwise you need "Nigerian" fertility rates to keep up with population growth Cool .

    All you need for good birth rate are decent incomes, reasonable work hours, maternity leave, affordable housing and affordable kindergartens

    Afterwards problem fixes itself

    All easily doable if you don't dick around and do some planning

    TheArmenian
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    Post  TheArmenian Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:39 am

    I have the best solution for fertility and it won't cost anything:

    - Once a week, switch off the electricity for a few hours (evening time) in whole regions. See how birth rates will rise.

    Sponsored content


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