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Anyway What I'm really waiting for are the antey 2500.
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53 posters
Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons
sheytanelkebir- Posts : 536
Points : 553
Join date : 2013-09-16
mack8- Posts : 1039
Points : 1093
Join date : 2013-08-02
A necessary evil i guess, hopefully something will transpire soon though.No pics yet. I note that recently opsec has improved at iraqi airports... No more leaking pics by airport ground staff.
That would be something to actually see S-300VM (and MiGs and Sukhois etc.) in Iraq.Anyway What I'm really waiting for are the antey 2500.
sheytanelkebir- Posts : 536
Points : 553
Join date : 2013-09-16
Actual deliveries turn out to be 3X single and 1X dual seater. Bringing up the total fleet size to 10x single and 2X dual seaters.
medo- Posts : 4343
Points : 4423
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
sheytanelkebir wrote:Actual deliveries turn out to be 3X single and 1X dual seater. Bringing up the total fleet size to 10x single and 2X dual seaters.
So, Iraqi air force now have a full squadron of Su-25 jets.
sheytanelkebir- Posts : 536
Points : 553
Join date : 2013-09-16
Who knows... It is very much possible that 4X airframes were sent back on the same an124 for overhaul. Which is the standard modus operandi of the iraqi af with Russian jets. Leaving 8 in place...
Can someone tell if these are bog standard su25 without night attack capability?
http://iraqimilitary.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2062&start=645
Can someone tell if these are bog standard su25 without night attack capability?
http://iraqimilitary.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2062&start=645
medo- Posts : 4343
Points : 4423
Join date : 2010-10-24
Location : Slovenia
sheytanelkebir wrote:Who knows... It is very much possible that 4X airframes were sent back on the same an124 for overhaul. Which is the standard modus operandi of the iraqi af with Russian jets. Leaving 8 in place...
Can someone tell if these are bog standard su25 without night attack capability?
http://iraqimilitary.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2062&start=645
On the photos, they are standard Su-25 jets, which doesn't have night capabilities. I wonder if they are equipped with GPS or GLONASS sat navigation, which could help to some degree with night attacks.
sheytanelkebir- Posts : 536
Points : 553
Join date : 2013-09-16
interfax agency said that Russia is preparing to ship 20 units of the updated Mi-28Ne with dual controls to Iraq.
I am guessing this is in addition to the 15 units (non dual control but radar equipped) Iraq bought in 2013.
I am guessing this is in addition to the 15 units (non dual control but radar equipped) Iraq bought in 2013.
iraqidabab- Posts : 316
Points : 331
Join date : 2014-05-31
dual controls?
magnumcromagnon- Posts : 8138
Points : 8273
Join date : 2013-12-05
Location : Pindos ave., Pindosville, Pindosylvania, Pindostan
iraqidabab wrote:dual controls?
Training helicopters, which allow veteran pilots to train green pilots.
George1- Posts : 18522
Points : 19027
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
New Mi-28NE for Iraq
Known Rostov spotter (with the nickname "Mi-26") filmed started flight tests at the airport JSC "Rostvertol", Krestovka in Rostov-on-Don one combat helicopter Mi-28NE manufactured for Iraq (temporary tail number "11"). According to unofficial reports, that is the first of the final four Mi-28NE on Iraqi contracts 2012-2013, a total of 15 machines. These four Mi-28NE must be made in the version with dual controls (ie Mi-28UB) and will bear dark gray color - in contrast to previous machines supplied to Iraq in camouflage color.
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1915011.html
Known Rostov spotter (with the nickname "Mi-26") filmed started flight tests at the airport JSC "Rostvertol", Krestovka in Rostov-on-Don one combat helicopter Mi-28NE manufactured for Iraq (temporary tail number "11"). According to unofficial reports, that is the first of the final four Mi-28NE on Iraqi contracts 2012-2013, a total of 15 machines. These four Mi-28NE must be made in the version with dual controls (ie Mi-28UB) and will bear dark gray color - in contrast to previous machines supplied to Iraq in camouflage color.
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1915011.html
sheytanelkebir- Posts : 536
Points : 553
Join date : 2013-09-16
http://sputniknews.com/military/20160607/1040907452/russia-iraq-daesh.html
Russia is willing to sell iraq "anything they ask for". cooperation in the joint intelligence centre is very satisfactory and russia would consider any request from iraq for direct support.
Russia is willing to sell iraq "anything they ask for". cooperation in the joint intelligence centre is very satisfactory and russia would consider any request from iraq for direct support.
mack8- Posts : 1039
Points : 1093
Join date : 2013-08-02
In this very nice photoreport you can see iraqi Mi-28NEs (or are they UBs?) and Mi-35Ms at Rostvertol:
http://gelio.livejournal.com/216241.html
http://gelio.livejournal.com/216241.html
George1- Posts : 18522
Points : 19027
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Iraq Receives New Batch of Mi-28NE Military Helicopters From Russia
http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160629/1042113806/iraq-receives-russian-mi28-helis.html
http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160629/1042113806/iraq-receives-russian-mi28-helis.html
George1- Posts : 18522
Points : 19027
Join date : 2011-12-22
Location : Greece
Τhe last two Mi-28NE delivered to Iraq
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2010649.html
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2010649.html
sheytanelkebir- Posts : 536
Points : 553
Join date : 2013-09-16
This week's reports by the Iraqi finance ministry shed light on some of Iraq's current issues with armaments.
many purchases from Russia have been suspended due to lack of cash by the Iraqi side (MSTA-S, BMP-3, T-90S, MiG-35, S-300).
In the meantime the finance ministry report stated the following:
USA gave Iraq $2.7Bn loan for weapons purchases to reactivate US offers which had lapsed due to previous Iraqi inability to pay.
China has given Iraq $2.5Bn for weapons purchases. The Chinese weapons are supplied by NORINCO and Poly-Technologies.
many purchases from Russia have been suspended due to lack of cash by the Iraqi side (MSTA-S, BMP-3, T-90S, MiG-35, S-300).
In the meantime the finance ministry report stated the following:
USA gave Iraq $2.7Bn loan for weapons purchases to reactivate US offers which had lapsed due to previous Iraqi inability to pay.
China has given Iraq $2.5Bn for weapons purchases. The Chinese weapons are supplied by NORINCO and Poly-Technologies.
iraqidabab- Posts : 316
Points : 331
Join date : 2014-05-31
I'm afraid we might purchase the AH-64 with those loans, that would be a big mistake.
sheytanelkebir- Posts : 536
Points : 553
Join date : 2013-09-16
the US loans are for the following:
-payment for second batch of F16s
-Payment for the 20,000+ LGBs
-Payment for 5000+ Hellfires
-Payment for 2 new combat caravans with 4 rails.
-payment for second batch of F16s
-Payment for the 20,000+ LGBs
-Payment for 5000+ Hellfires
-Payment for 2 new combat caravans with 4 rails.
iraqidabab- Posts : 316
Points : 331
Join date : 2014-05-31
sheytanelkebir wrote:the US loans are for the following:
-payment for second batch of F16s
-Payment for the 20,000+ LGBs
-Payment for 5000+ Hellfires
-Payment for 2 new combat caravans with 4 rails.
So now after deals have been made for HQ-9 long range AD and CH-5 UCAV. What do you expect the next heavy weapons purchase to be about for the air force.
Any chance we'll see a purchase of SU-34? i've the feeling this will be of much more use than SU-30's/Mig-35's for the time being, there's a lot of ground work to be done in iraq and Syria.
d_taddei2- Posts : 3028
Points : 3202
Join date : 2013-05-11
Location : Scotland Alba
iraqidabab wrote:sheytanelkebir wrote:the US loans are for the following:
-payment for second batch of F16s
-Payment for the 20,000+ LGBs
-Payment for 5000+ Hellfires
-Payment for 2 new combat caravans with 4 rails.
So now after deals have been made for HQ-9 long range AD and CH-5 UCAV. What do you expect the next heavy weapons purchase to be about for the air force.
Any chance we'll see a purchase of SU-34? i've the feeling this will be of much more use than SU-30's/Mig-35's for the time being, there's a lot of ground work to be done in iraq and Syria.
I think due to current conflict and budget constraints they would be better buying Su-25SM, Su-24M2, and maybe some Mig-29SMT/M2 (if needed) these aircraft are more than enough for Iraq's need, without buying more expensive aircraft.
GarryB- Posts : 40545
Points : 41045
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
I would agree with that... an upgraded MiG-29 wont intimidate the neighbours but will kick ISIS ass, and Su-25s would be rather more use than supersonic fighters any day.
Fencers have proved that with good intel on the ground situation they can still get the job done without costing a fortune.
Perhaps even a few bomb trucks would be useful... half a dozen Tu-22M3s for the purposes of absolutely trashing a target with conventional ordinance when needed... but they would not be cheap.
I would probably go for the Su-30 rather than the Su-34 as while it is cheaper and less capable as a strike aircraft the Su-30 is good enough for most purposes and has a better secondary capability as an air superiority fighter. On paper the Su-34 could be used for air to air purposes but in practical terms it is more of a medium range strike aircraft... and would be a waste as a fighter.
Fencers have proved that with good intel on the ground situation they can still get the job done without costing a fortune.
Perhaps even a few bomb trucks would be useful... half a dozen Tu-22M3s for the purposes of absolutely trashing a target with conventional ordinance when needed... but they would not be cheap.
I would probably go for the Su-30 rather than the Su-34 as while it is cheaper and less capable as a strike aircraft the Su-30 is good enough for most purposes and has a better secondary capability as an air superiority fighter. On paper the Su-34 could be used for air to air purposes but in practical terms it is more of a medium range strike aircraft... and would be a waste as a fighter.
d_taddei2- Posts : 3028
Points : 3202
Join date : 2013-05-11
Location : Scotland Alba
GarryB wrote:I would agree with that... an upgraded MiG-29 wont intimidate the neighbours but will kick ISIS ass, and Su-25s would be rather more use than supersonic fighters any day.
Fencers have proved that with good intel on the ground situation they can still get the job done without costing a fortune.
Perhaps even a few bomb trucks would be useful... half a dozen Tu-22M3s for the purposes of absolutely trashing a target with conventional ordinance when needed... but they would not be cheap.
I would probably go for the Su-30 rather than the Su-34 as while it is cheaper and less capable as a strike aircraft the Su-30 is good enough for most purposes and has a better secondary capability as an air superiority fighter. On paper the Su-34 could be used for air to air purposes but in practical terms it is more of a medium range strike aircraft... and would be a waste as a fighter.
Tu-22M3's would be nice lol, but its unlikely. The Su-25 would be ideal for supporting offensives and ground troops along with Iraq's Mi-35 and Mi-28, the Su-24 for buildings being used for ammo depots, command centres etc. and the Mig-29 could also be used for buildings or kept on high alert to intercept enemy convoys. Their hellfire armed Cessna AC-208 Caravan could be used on enemy armour and bunkers etc. and i suppose their L-159A could be used for scouting and taking out enemy artillery positions and convoys. Iraq doesn't really need high end aircraft, 12 Su-30SM, 24 Mig-29M2, and and some decent land based air defense (Buk, Tor, Pantsir, S-300VM) would be enough to protect Iraqi airspace although this isn't a current issue just now. Their current issues require only really CAS aircraft and attack heli's. I am surprised Iraq hasn't bought armed super Tucano from Brazil, cheap to buy and operate and pretty good in COIN operations, another thing i am surprised they haven't bought is armed versions of Mi-17 as it seems to be kinda popular to countries on a tight budget to purchase this along with transport versions. Anyway, Russia and Iraq could be good for each other Russia looking to sell off surplus BMP-1, BMP-2, T-72, 2S1, 2S3, BM-21, MT-LB, Sa-13, Sa-8, Tunkuska, as well as sales of new BTR-82, Tigr-m, typhoon MRAP, tornado, and metis and Kornet, to name a few and Iraq looking for a willing, hassle free, and on time supplier who can provide effective and fairly cheap (compared to western equivalent) equipment something USA can't/won't do. It really does boil down to fit for purpose and needs as well as cost and Russia has something for everybody, every threat, every need, and for every budget.
GarryB- Posts : 40545
Points : 41045
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
I agree it is not super likely but then the Iraqis did have the Tu-22 in service before... sure it is a different aircraft, but it is a theatre bomber too.
No strings attached hardware that works...
What is not to like.
Equipment that is cheap to use and effective.
No strings attached hardware that works...
What is not to like.
Equipment that is cheap to use and effective.
iraqidabab- Posts : 316
Points : 331
Join date : 2014-05-31
SU-24's are too outdated to purchase now. We have to think ahead of long-term threats which will come from neighbors. The CAS role will be fulfilled by the F-16's, L-159, FA-50 (Korean) and SU-25. What lacks is some modern air platform that threatens neighbors like SU-30's and/or 34's for the ground attack.
TU-22M3 would be very useful and practical in today's situation but i'm sure that would alarm all neighbors given how deadly a combination it would be when defended by SU-30's. I'm aware of the current financial problem in Iraq. Militarily speaking, a couple squadrons of SU-30's and perhaps 12-24 SU-34's would enable IQAF to counter every regional threat.
~30 fighter aircraft would be smaller than Kuwaits air force whilst Iraq has to deter Iran, Saud, Syria and Turkey's AF. Highly likely 96+ more fighter jets are eventually going to be purchased to build up the squadrons.
TU-22M3 would be very useful and practical in today's situation but i'm sure that would alarm all neighbors given how deadly a combination it would be when defended by SU-30's. I'm aware of the current financial problem in Iraq. Militarily speaking, a couple squadrons of SU-30's and perhaps 12-24 SU-34's would enable IQAF to counter every regional threat.
~30 fighter aircraft would be smaller than Kuwaits air force whilst Iraq has to deter Iran, Saud, Syria and Turkey's AF. Highly likely 96+ more fighter jets are eventually going to be purchased to build up the squadrons.
d_taddei2- Posts : 3028
Points : 3202
Join date : 2013-05-11
Location : Scotland Alba
iraqidabab wrote:SU-24's are too outdated to purchase now. We have to think ahead of long-term threats which will come from neighbors. The CAS role will be fulfilled by the F-16's, L-159, FA-50 (Korean) and SU-25. What lacks is some modern air platform that threatens neighbors like SU-30's and/or 34's for the ground attack.
TU-22M3 would be very useful and practical in today's situation but i'm sure that would alarm all neighbors given how deadly a combination it would be when defended by SU-30's. I'm aware of the current financial problem in Iraq. Militarily speaking, a couple squadrons of SU-30's and perhaps 12-24 SU-34's would enable IQAF to counter every regional threat.
~30 fighter aircraft would be smaller than Kuwaits air force whilst Iraq has to deter Iran, Saud, Syria and Turkey's AF. Highly likely 96+ more fighter jets are eventually going to be purchased to build up the squadrons.
I can't really see the Syrian's or Iranian's being a threat to Iraq considering the co-operation going on at the moment. I would imagine that after ISIS and the rest of the terrorists are destroyed that Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Iran will become closer allies especially if Erdo is still doing crazy shit.
As for the Su-24 being outdated i disagree with upgrades such as Gefest it becomes a capable ground attack aircraft, and Iraq should be able to secure them fairly cheaply, its all too easy to say it have 30 aircraft of Su-30 and Su-34 but Iraq doesn't have the money and they still need to rebuild their country. Like i said 12 Su-30, 12-24 Mig-29M2, Su-25, and Su-24 would be more than enough just now in till the country is re-built and the money is back in the pot. Biggest threat to Iraq is terrorism, not so much neighbouring countries.
Also F-16 are not ideal CAS, better with the Su-25 and maybe some Super Tucano cost is around $14-16mn each cheap effective and ideal at killing scum.
GarryB- Posts : 40545
Points : 41045
Join date : 2010-03-30
Location : New Zealand
Actually I would say the best bet would normally be an Su-24 with the G&T upgrade to allow it to operate with cheap dumb bombs making it cheap to buy and cheap to actually use.
The problem is that the Su-24 operating in your own airspace is overkill... penetrating enemy airspace at low altitude and high speed is what it is all about.
Fitting the G&T upgrades to Su-25s and MiG-29s would offer cheap point target capability in robust cheap aircraft. In the case of the MiG you can upgrade to semi MiG-35 level if you start with the MiG-29M2 model which should be affordable and also capable.
With the upgrade the Su-25 can hit hard with unguided bombs and rockets and survive return fire like few other aircraft can.
The critical thing is that with the upgrades... which are not expensive... they do their work with cheap simple ammo so you can actually afford to use them a lot... which is a critical thing most westerners ignore.
Some unmanned drones able to carry light weapons would be interesting too... perhaps a joint venture with a Russian company. The Soviets developed a range of ATGMs optimised for use from aircraft. ASCII codenames AT-2, AT-6 and AT-9 are all high speed command guided missiles with no wire guidance to slow them down.
Experience has shown these missiles could penetrate even the heaviest tank deployed in the region from the flank or rear and the HE equipped models would be rather more effective against targets like vehicles or rooms of a building make them even more useful.
A light high flying UAV with the equivalent of the G&T upgrade would allow cheap light bombs to be used effectively... FAB-50 in internal weapon bays would be devastating against light targets and limit collateral damage to the area.
The problem is that the Su-24 operating in your own airspace is overkill... penetrating enemy airspace at low altitude and high speed is what it is all about.
Fitting the G&T upgrades to Su-25s and MiG-29s would offer cheap point target capability in robust cheap aircraft. In the case of the MiG you can upgrade to semi MiG-35 level if you start with the MiG-29M2 model which should be affordable and also capable.
With the upgrade the Su-25 can hit hard with unguided bombs and rockets and survive return fire like few other aircraft can.
The critical thing is that with the upgrades... which are not expensive... they do their work with cheap simple ammo so you can actually afford to use them a lot... which is a critical thing most westerners ignore.
Some unmanned drones able to carry light weapons would be interesting too... perhaps a joint venture with a Russian company. The Soviets developed a range of ATGMs optimised for use from aircraft. ASCII codenames AT-2, AT-6 and AT-9 are all high speed command guided missiles with no wire guidance to slow them down.
Experience has shown these missiles could penetrate even the heaviest tank deployed in the region from the flank or rear and the HE equipped models would be rather more effective against targets like vehicles or rooms of a building make them even more useful.
A light high flying UAV with the equivalent of the G&T upgrade would allow cheap light bombs to be used effectively... FAB-50 in internal weapon bays would be devastating against light targets and limit collateral damage to the area.