Iraq turns its eye on Russian weapons

GarryB wrote:Actually I would say the best bet would normally be an Su-24 with the G&T upgrade to allow it to operate with cheap dumb bombs making it cheap to buy and cheap to actually use.

The problem is that the Su-24 operating in your own airspace is overkill... penetrating enemy airspace at low altitude and high speed is what it is all about.

Fitting the G&T upgrades to Su-25s and MiG-29s would offer cheap point target capability in robust cheap aircraft. In the case of the MiG you can upgrade to semi MiG-35 level if you start with the MiG-29M2 model which should be affordable and also capable.

With the upgrade the Su-25 can hit hard with unguided bombs and rockets and survive return fire like few other aircraft can.

The critical thing is that with the upgrades... which are not expensive... they do their work with cheap simple ammo so you can actually afford to use them a lot... which is a critical thing most westerners ignore.

Some unmanned drones able to carry light weapons would be interesting too... perhaps a joint venture with a Russian company. The Soviets developed a range of ATGMs optimised for use from aircraft. ASCII codenames AT-2, AT-6 and AT-9 are all high speed command guided missiles with no wire guidance to slow them down.

Experience has shown these missiles could penetrate even the heaviest tank deployed in the region from the flank or rear and the HE equipped models would be rather more effective against targets like vehicles or rooms of a building make them even more useful.

A light high flying UAV with the equivalent of the G&T upgrade would allow cheap light bombs to be used effectively... FAB-50 in internal weapon bays would be devastating against light targets and limit collateral damage to the area.

Isos wrote:

GarryB wrote:Those are reasonable low cost solutions to Iraqs current problems.

With the value of oil so low it does not make sense to get into enormous debt to anyone.

But you have rats to kill... with modern optics and communcations an upgraded T-72 with a 125mm gun and some decent ERA should be as effective as any other modern tank, while likely remaining affordable and usable.

Is the Arena system available for export ?

Militarov wrote:

Isos wrote:

GarryB wrote:Those are reasonable low cost solutions to Iraqs current problems.

With the value of oil so low it does not make sense to get into enormous debt to anyone.

But you have rats to kill... with modern optics and communcations an upgraded T-72 with a 125mm gun and some decent ERA should be as effective as any other modern tank, while likely remaining affordable and usable.

Is the Arena system available for export ?

It basically IS export product, since it was never fitted to any vehicle in Russian service. Arena-E was offered on almost every single military expo for like 20 years now. Never scored export contract tho.

Isos wrote:

It basically IS export product, since it was never fitted to any vehicle in Russian service. Arena-E was offered on almost every single military expo for like 20 years now. Never scored export contract tho.

Well 20 years ago the idea was to fight other tanks in big battles, now the main threats for any country in the middle east are ATGM, so they could probably found someone to buy it. The loses of turkish army and syrian army and the survivability of Israeli Trophy-equiped Merkavas are an evidence that the system is not obsolate.
Maybe an "upgrade" (with the marketing that it generates) is needed.

d_taddei2 wrote:A great tank but I think Iraq would have been better buying upgraded T-72 tanks would have been cheaper and something troops and maintenance crew would be more use to. Another useful purchase would be Bmpt -72. Hopefully Iraq will now use Russia as it's main arm supplier. Mi-35M, Su-30SM, Mig-29M2, upgraded Su-24, Su-25, and multirole yak-130 would be good next purchases

sheytanelkebir wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:A great tank but I think Iraq would have been better buying upgraded T-72 tanks would have been cheaper and something troops and maintenance crew would be more use to. Another useful purchase would be Bmpt -72. Hopefully Iraq will now use Russia as it's main arm supplier. Mi-35M, Su-30SM, Mig-29M2, upgraded Su-24, Su-25, and multirole yak-130 would be good next purchases

well Iraq already has Mi35M and Mi28Ne / UB. I don't think they need any SU-24s, and they won't add any more SU-25s. Similarly they already bought 36 light jets (24 FA-50 and 12 L-159s) so the Yak-130 would be redundant.

What they desperately need however are long range area defence SAMs and effective air defence fighters. Either the MiG35 or SU30SM would be perfect for that... in addition to S300/S400 type.

I believe that in addition to the T90S.. Russia will donate about 200 old T-55s to Iraq which will be locally modernised in collaboration with UVZ in the Basra tank refurbishment plant.

d_taddei2 wrote:Good ideas on the T-55 I believe there was rumours of Peru wanting to upgrade some of their T-55 with the turret of Bmpt. On the subject of 57mm gun I always thought that the Zsu 57-2 was always a good ground support vehicle after the anti air capacity was diminished with introduction of anti air missiles. Still a good use for the vehicle although an enclosed turret upgrade should be included to protect gunner. I know some have had crude turret roofs welded on to them in the past. Ideally a T-55 with a Bmpt turret but replace the 30mm guns with a single or double 57mm gun.