RUSSIA - INDIA Military Contracts

Moving closer towards buying four advanced warships for the Navy, India has finalised the price of the vessels to be bought directly from Russia at around USD 1.1 billion while Defence Ministry is pushing for conclusion of the contract for the remaining two vessels which would be built by the Goa Shipyard under Make in India programme.

The warships are being acquired from Russia as the Navy wanted to enhance its blue water capabilities by inducting four state-of-the-art warships equipped with the deadly BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles in the earliest possible timeframe.


After Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharamans visit to Russia, the Russian and Indian sides have completed the price negotiations for the Russian material to be supplied to the Goa Shipyards at around USD 200 million. The Indian negotiators have also managed to get a discount of 18 per cent in the contract, government sources said.

After Sitharamans push to the programme, a Russian team had come at the Defexpo-2018 in Chennai and held discussions for price during the exhibition and continued it in Delhi in the last two days, they said.

The Defence Minister had visited Russia earlier this month where she discussed multiple military cooperation programmes between the two countries.

The Indian side in the discussions is led by a Joint Secretary-level official of the Defence Ministry. The Russian shipyard involved in the project is Yantar.

The negotiations for the cost of the warships to be built at the Goa Shipyards will continue and it is expected that the programme would be finalised in next couple of months, the sources said.

According to the plan, the defence ministry wants to go the Cabinet Committee on Security with a combined proposal including the cost of the Russian supplied and the Made in India vessels together, the sources said.

Negotiations for the cost of the warships to be built at Goa shipyards will continue and is expected that the programme would be finalised in the next couple of months.

https://www.indiatoday.in/mail-today/story/india-russia-close-to-inking-warship-deal-1214565-2018-04-18

Apparently India selected AK-103 as its next assault rifle:

https://sputniknews.com/military/201804191063708888-india-russia-assault-rifle-deal/

Don't know enough to comment on this

By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 20th Apr 18

The proposal for India and Russia to jointly develop an advanced fighter – the eponymous Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) -- has been formally buried.

Business Standard has learnt that National Security Advisor Ajit Doval conveyed the decision to a Russian ministerial delegation at a “Defence Acquisition Meeting” in end-February.

Doval and Defence Secretary Sanjay Mitra, who attended the meeting, asked the Russians to proceed alone with developing their fifth-generation fighter. They said India might possibly join the project later, or buy the fully developed fighter outright, after it entered service with the Russian Air Force.

Long article at http://ajaishukla.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/the-fgfa-is-dead-863-billion-advanced.html

India has since long decided to dump this project as joint venture and might purchase on its completion 2-3 sq if the final plane suits indian air force specifications

Joint venture then can be revived depending upon changes to be made in su 57 for india

Well lets face it... India was never prepared to spend the sort of money that could justify considering that they owned the design... much like the Su-30MKI they want to take an existing proven design and make modifications to suit their needs... much cheaper than developing a whole new aircraft... but then in both cases the aircraft has pretty much already been developed anyway.

GarryB wrote:Well lets face it... India was never prepared to spend the sort of money that could justify considering that they owned the design... much like the Su-30MKI they want to take an existing proven design and make modifications to suit their needs... much cheaper than developing a whole new aircraft... but then in both cases the aircraft has pretty much already been developed anyway.

yes you are right bro since mrca mess created by successive indian govts or say changing priorities of IAF have delayed that buy and hence this programme suffered on account of funding too

Something I said tgey could do and many here said it was bullshit. Russia may have offered to give India a new class of nuclear sub and let them build them in indian shipyards.

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/russia-offers-to-jointly-design-build-submarines/articleshow/64877908.cms

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/t-14-armata-top-priority-of-army-chiefs-russia-visit/articleshow/66050040.cms

India interested to buy 1770 T-14 Armata to replace older t-72. This contract could help dicrease the price of the tank that is still too high for russia.

Even markets in Asia, Africa were cultivated by the Soviet Union/Russia once, Finland purchased weapons from Russia, no reason why Russia cannot make inroads into Europe,

Currently there is a culture of hate in Europe, where even if you find a friendly government they are bound by EU sanctions not to deal with Russia.

They have no need to buy Russian weapons because there are NATO alternatives that they are generally encouraged to buy and lets face facts... there is no real military threat to any of them so the fact that the weapons are inferior and wont work as advertised doesn't mean much... they will likely never use them anyway.

South America , Mid East. Turkey is in NATO but is purchasing S-400.

South and central america, ME, Asia, and Africa are all places Russia could sell a lot of hardware to... Turkey is buying S-400 because after the US supported coup they want to actually protect their air space with something that will work and not just look nice in the background of major airshows all shiny and nice.

They need something that will make US or even Israeli aircraft think twice about taking on and Patriot just does not cut it in that regard.

Europe has recently been on a sales trip through africa and offered loans and deals, but also complained about Chinese investment in the region. I believe the British said the Chinese were imposing enormous debt on african countries for things they don't need to enslave them. The African countries on the other hand said they liked Chinese investment because they got what they wanted but were not told to change their government or economics or politics or culture to suit the Chinese... the African country got what they wanted, the Chinese made a profit and were happy... something they said never happens with western investment where western companies normally end up owning mines and mineral wealth on the cheap.

Not to say China are angels, but the west are devils...

Russia would do well to trade like China trades and make allies and friends and grow allies and friends that develop and prosper with you... the west wants to make money but keep other countries down because they don't like rivals.

The result is that poor countries will trade with Russia and China and become more wealthy and better able to buy Chinese and Russians products... a win win.

Being an European country, Russia has far more cultural, social compatability with European countries.

European countries are jumping through hoops to please Trump and sanction Russia... when the US dollar stops becoming the international currency it is rather likely it will be replaced by the Euro... which wont be any good for Russia, though being in the middle of the new trade route from China to the EU means they will benefit, but I doubt it means either China or the EU will buy a lot of Russian goods.

With third world, corrupt countries like India it has no compatability. This is exactly what the Yankees do - they remind Europeans that we are Europeans too, so you are safe dealing with us.

Given half the chance the majority of the elite in the US would have Putin murdered in a heart beat and bend heaven and earth to get a drunk elected to guard the hen house that is Russia... why do you worship them so?

Sometimes the greatest enemy of a Muslim is another Muslim... Sunni vs Shia... America is a worse enemy of Russia than China or India are... and most of the Europeans are no better.

Russia needs to seize this initiative from the Yankees. Russia can easily strike major deals initially with fellow Slavic countries and then with other European countries.

By all means sell stuff to Europe, but don't expect any special treatment of favours... the only reason they buy Russian gas is because it is cheap... it is certainly not friendship or even charity... if the shoe was on the other foot and the EU was supplying Russia with gas to keep warm over winter you can bet your ass it would be regularly turned off to keep naughty Russia in line... it is what the EU does and it is what the US does... economic warfare.

Putin hasn't said even once that Saudis are supporting terrorists in Chechnya.

Why is that relevant... how could the Saudis get S-400s to terrorists in Chechnya?

Russia sold an incomplete SA-12 (S-300V system) to the US in the 1990s too... do you think the US is not helping terrorists in Syria and elsewhere?

Russia sold a Tunguska ADS system to the British too... do you think Britain are Russias allies?

The millions of dollars they made with each sale paid for the S-300VM/Antei-2500 and 2S6M1 upgrades BTW at a time when there was no money at all...

If they had why is Putin selling S-400 to Saudi Arabia and other weapons to gulf states ?

Do you think Russia would find it easier to penetrate S-400 defences if they need to, or Patriot and THAAD defences?

I rather doubt Russia has any plans to attack the countries it is supplying systems to, but do you think these export models are the best they can make?

They sell weapons... if you are afraid of selling weapons that might be used against you then don't sell weapons.

India is looking elsewhere which I feel is a bit of a stab in the back to Russia but India has been a good customer for decades don't forget that.

Something like 60% of Indian military hardware is Soviet... and they have just signed up for S-400, plus ships, plus rifles, likely plus new tanks, and they are also interested in collaborating in space travel and research...

If Russians truly wish to stand apart and take the lead in dismantling US hegemony in favour of a more equitable, multi-polar world, they need to observe and take notice of President Putin's very admirable and untiring efforts to constantly reach out and engage with the international community, and with people of all colours, races and religions (in spite of Western resistance and opposition).

X2

This isn't about Russia knocking off the US so it can be leader of the world and it isn't about China doing the same... this is about knocking the US back and saying you are not in charge... nobody voted you in... we all want a say... so instead of just the US in control of everything... more countries need to be allowed a say... that means Russia and China and India and the EU and the US and a lot of other countries besides that.

As an outsider, I am truly impressed by the man's civility and composure , which would I guess contribute to his high favourability ratings. Many within and abroad may do well to at least aspire to be as respectful and as dignified.

In the current political climate he is the adult amongst the children...

India interested to buy 1770 T-14 Armata to replace older t-72. This contract could help dicrease the price of the tank that is still too high for russia.

I suspect that India will buy the tank version and just use it as a tank.

The Russians will be eventually buying over a dozen different Armata types to form Armata Brigades or Divisions populated with only Armata based platform vehicles...

BTW that AK-103 purchase contract is interesting because it appears to be in 7.62 x 51mm, whereas the original AK-103 was in the lighter 7.62x39mm round of the AKM.

I suspect that India will buy the tank version and just use it as a tank.

The Russians will be eventually buying over a dozen different Armata types to form Armata Brigades or Divisions populated with only Armata based platform vehicles...

They also have some old bmp's to replace with t-15 or kurg.

Military Watch is reporting negotiations about the MiG-35, how credible you think this is?

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/russia-and-india-negotiating-contract-for-elite-new-mig-35-fighters

Overview of military aviation prospects with India, interesting:

http://en.dfnc.ru/aviazcia/india-modernization-aviation-meditation/

They also have some old bmp's to replace with t-15 or kurg.

The question is what sort of mobility and performance will they want from their new BMPs... would they demand tracked vehicles or would cheaper wheeled vehicles suit them better... I really don't think they would replace all their BMPs with Armata based T-15s as that would be rather expensive...

Kurganets and Boomerang BMP models both seem to be rather well protected for what they are...

I would say the best performing option would be Armata MBTs, Kurganets BMPs, and all the other vehicles in a division being Boomerangs for mobility and low cost use... but they might go for Kurganets for everything else for better mobility across rough ground... or they could continue with existing vehicles...

Military Watch is reporting negotiations about the MiG-35, how credible you think this is?

It would certainly make sense for India... previously they had the MiG-29 in service as a short range interceptor, and had M2000s as multirole fighter bombers, while they also had a significant number of MiG-23s and Jaguars in the light strike role.

The MiG-35 could certainly replace both the MiG-29, MiG-23 and Jaguar in the short range interceptor, fighter and light strike roles...

it was pretty clear from the start that it should have won the MRCA programme simply because there was never any chance of getting 126 Rafales for anything like 10 billion... I thought a mix of aircraft would have suited them better... perhaps 30-40 Rafales and 60-80 MiG-35s would have offered them the best of both worlds in terms of weapons and sensor technology, but at the time the Indians didn't want an all Russian fleet of aircraft.

I am rather biased but I think the MiG-35 has enormous potential and would be a rather good medium weight fighter.

Of course the fact that 36 Rafales cost India just over 9.2 billion there was never much chance of a split purchase with MiG-35s...

GarryB wrote:It would certainly make sense for India... previously they had the MiG-29 in service as a short range interceptor, and had M2000s as multirole fighter bombers, while they also had a significant number of MiG-23s and Jaguars in the light strike role.

The MiG-35 could certainly replace both the MiG-29, MiG-23 and Jaguar in the short range interceptor, fighter and light strike roles...

it was pretty clear from the start that it should have won the MRCA programme simply because there was never any chance of getting 126 Rafales for anything like 10 billion... I thought a mix of aircraft would have suited them better... perhaps 30-40 Rafales and  60-80 MiG-35s would have offered them the best of both worlds in terms of weapons and sensor technology, but at the time the Indians didn't want an all Russian fleet of aircraft.

I am rather biased but I think the MiG-35 has enormous potential and would be a rather good medium weight fighter.

Of course the fact that 36 Rafales cost India just over 9.2 billion there was never much chance of a split purchase with MiG-35s...

ToT would be better also with the Russian offer, infrastructure is there and the plane itself will probably cost way less, let's see if latest buys from RuAF push this forward. Considering how little restrictive Russia has been with India and that the other options all are to a certain extent linked to US it looks an easy call to me but it seems they want to keep a good bargaining position and not commit too much to any side.

It wouldn't make sense at all just like it doesn't make sense for Russia to acquire them other than to keep MIG afloat and working....

I doubt this "rumor" is true. I don't think the Indians would double-cross the Americans like that anyway. Then you consider the obvious - acquiring more Su-30MKIs or Su-35s (hec Single-seaters PAK-FAs) is the superior deal it makes this "rumor" even more a joke.

When you see these clowns throwing $8 Billion down the drain for 36 Rafale's, but back out from the Pak-Fa program you just gotta laugh at them. No offense to our Indians posters here...just obvious.

Pretty much.

As ISOS said in other thread - if they just took what was shown and tested, threw it in a new airframe with newer tech (MiG-35D stuffings), then they would have had something. Instead, they got....this.

India already predetermined that they were not buying Russian this time round. And they won't do so again either. As Atlas said, they chose Rafale over Su-57. Which says a lot about Indians.

They are buying influence, not weapons.

It wouldn't make sense at all just like it doesn't make sense for Russia to acquire them other than to keep MIG afloat and working....

Are you suggesting the F-16 was a mistake?

With aging aircraft the US decided for better or worse that it could not afford to replace its entire fleet of 4th gen fighters with F-22s so it developed the F-35 to replace them all... a poor idea because the F-35 is probably more expensive than F-22s would have been, but we only know this now...

Are you suggesting that Russia can afford a fleet of Su-35s and Su-30s and Su-57s only?

I doubt this "rumor" is true. I don't think the Indians would double-cross the Americans like that anyway.

What are you talking about double cross?

Are you suggesting that India must buy an American aircraft?

So they would have to choose either the expensive F-35 or the F-16 which is in service in Pakistan... or might they consider F-5s do you think?

Then you consider the obvious - acquiring more Su-30MKIs or Su-35s (hec Single-seaters PAK-FAs) is the superior deal it makes this "rumor" even more a joke.

They don't need more heavy fighters... they want medium and light fighters... MiG-35s and Tegas...

When you see these clowns throwing $8 Billion down the drain for 36 Rafale's, but back out from the Pak-Fa program you just gotta laugh at them. No offense to our Indians posters here...just obvious.

The amount of complaining when the Gorshkov went from 1.5 billion including air wing to 2.4 billion including air wing... I must say I found the silence amusing when the Rafale won the competition for 126 aircraft for 10 billion dollars when the French basically said it was going to cost over 22 billion for that many...

They knew all along that they couldn't meet the cost parameters of the programme, yet they won...

And the really amusing thing is that India didn't even want the Rafale... they actually wanted and would have been happy with Mirage 2000s with licence production...

The aircraft these new platforms will be replacing are MiG-21s and MiG-23s and Jaguars... so replacing them one for one with Flankers is very unlikely and not very efficient...

BTW MiG is a department in the UAC now... there is no question of it staying "afloat".

As ISOS said in other thread - if they just took what was shown and tested, threw it in a new airframe with newer tech (MiG-35D stuffings), then they would have had something. Instead, they got....this.

Exactly what is wrong with the MiGs airframe?

They are buying influence, not weapons.

So why even consider Gripen?

They are getting to a point where a large portion of their airfleet will need to be retired and replaced and "buying influence" makes no sense with the US... because overnight it could turn on you if you accidentally upset or offend them in some way.

They like the security of diversity in supply, but when was the last time the Russians imposed sanctions on India and refused to supply them?

Russia has proved itself reliable, plus domestic production should allay fears anyway.

But then the underlying problem in India is the internal factions.... just like in any organisation there are those that like this way or that way of doing things...

There are those in India who think the M2K is perfection and anything else is crap and the ones in the other camps pretty much feel the same about the crap...

Rostec: negotiations with India on a contract for four frigates are in the final stage

It is planned that two ships will be built in Russia and two - on Indian shipyards

Chuhai / China / November 6th. / Tass /. Negotiations with India on the purchase of four frigates of the project 11356 from Russia are in the final stage. This was announced on Tuesday to journalists by Viktor Kladov, director of international cooperation and regional policy of Rostec.

"Negotiations continue, they are in the final, advanced stage," said Kladov, answering the relevant question.

https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/5759563

http://tass.com/defense/1031650

Apparently the contract was signed for the 4 frigates to India.

India close to sealing Rs 23,000 crore lease deal for Russian N-sub

With delays in the indigenous SSN programme, the Navy is banking on another leased submarine from Russia.

HIGHLIGHTS

Talks are on for leasing another Akula-2 class nuclear powered attack submarine from Russia for $3.3 billion

It will replace INS Chakra, which was taken on a 10-year lease from Russia for $2.5 billion in 2011

Indian naval delegation inspected two Akula-2 class SSNs- Bratsk and Samara, in Russia last week

e photo backdrop to Admiral Sunil Lanba's annual Navy Day press conference on December 3 was a timely one. It showed a submerged Akula class nuclear powered attack submarine, firing a missile. Talks of leasing another Akula-2 class SSN from Russia to replace the INS Chakra at the end of its ten year lease, have reached a crescendo within the Navy in recent weeks.

Last week, a naval delegation led by Inspector General (Nuclear Safety) Vice Admiral Soonil V Bhokare returned after a tour of Russia. They inspected two Akula-2 class submarines, the Bratsk and the Samara, laid up for a deep refit at the Zvezdochka shipyard in the Arctic port of Severodvinsk. The delegation also included a Joint Secretary (Finance) in the MoD discussed the lease of one of these submarines reportedly for USD 3.3 billion (Rs 23,000 crore).

The Indian side is believed to have agreed to this amount and this could be the biggest defence deal after the two countries following the USD 5.4 billion (Rs 40,000 crore) purchase of five S-400 air defence missile systems in October and a USD 1.5 billion deal to buy two Admiral Grigorovich class frigates from Russia.

The naval delegation's visit was followed by a four-day visit to Russia by Admiral Lanba, where he reportedly discussed the Chakra lease and the construction of conventional submarines in India.

The Navy single Akula-2 class submarine, the INS Chakra, was taken on a ten year lease from Russia for USD 2.5 billion in 2011. Officials said the cost of the leasing its replacement, tentatively called the Chakra-3, was worked out after considering a cost escalation using the 2011 lease amount as a base.

More:
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/india-close-to-sealing-rs-23-000-crore-lease-deal-for-russian-n-sub-1401875-2018-12-04

The Russian government launched a broadside against India’s decision to award contracts to South Korea for a self-propelled anti-aircraft defense system.

According to the newspaper “The Korea JoongAng Daily“, the Indian military selected a Korean-built Biho hybrid self-propelled anti-aircraft defense system as a candidate for acquisition last October after a bidding process involving a number of foreign arms makers as part of a recent plan by New Delhi to upgrade its air defenses.

The bidding was first officially announced in 2013, and the candidate weapons were evaluated throughout 2015 and tested in 2017.

In the 2013 global tender, Indian Army shortlisted three companies — Hanwha Defense Systems, which offered its Hybrid Biho system, and Russian companies Almaz Antey, which offered its upgraded Tunguska system, and KBP Tula, which offer its Pantsir system.

.................................

Newspaper also noted that, defense analysts in Seoul say it may be difficult for Korea to overcome the Russian interference.

“The fact that its weapons were outgunned in the bidding must have come at a major shock to Russia, which prides itself as the leading manufacturer of combined defense systems,” the Korean official said. “We expect them to attempt to block this deal to the end.”

https://defence-blog.com/army/russia-protest-up-koreas-arms-sales-to-india.html