China's Military and Geopolitics

I think he is talking about the putrid F-16/79. An F-16 with J79 jet engine. This was supposed to be a competitor to the F-20 Tigershark.

lancelot wrote:I think he is talking about the putrid F-16/79. An F-16 with J79 jet engine. This was supposed to be a competitor to the F-20 Tigershark.

That's the one, thanks. I'd overlooked that it was called that.

First read about it World Air Power Journal vol 5 which mentions that it was Carter who reversed the policy in 1980 to allow the F16A/B to be sold to foreign customers instead of the J79.

This piece for RT about China's growing nuclear arsenal, was written by an ex US military guy. Several inconsistencies though. I'll highlight the most important ones:

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/530908-us-china-nuclear-arms-race/

"If, however, the Chinese were to complete the two new silo bases and fill them with DF-41s, each of which armed with 10 warheads, then the US and China could negotiate mutually acceptable reductions based on strategic parity."

Except that'd be 2000 warheads, not including other Chinese ICBM warheads, or SLBM warheads, or air-delivered warheads. The US has around 1700 deployed between ICBMs and SLBMs, also not including however many are available for bombers, fighters, etc.

200 alleged DF-41s with 10 alleged warheads apiece doesn't equate to parity, it equates to a potential numerical advantage in terms of warhead count. In reality though the DF-41 is likely to employ fewer than 10 warheads for numerous reasons, such as possibly taking up space on the bus for penaids, using larger warheads, etc.

And while we're at it, claiming China is engaging in an arms race when what they're really doing is attempting to achieve strategic parity is a stretch.

"US-China nuclear reduction talks, however, are impractical when one compares the relative threat posed by 200-plus Chinese ground-based ICBMs, and the US arsenal of several thousand strategic warheads housed in a nuclear triad consisting of silo-based ICBMs, submarine-launched ballistic missiles and air-delivered nuclear weapons."

Well, if those 200 ICBMs are all DF-41s, then as he claims that's 2000 warheads there alone. It's also remarkably convenient that there's no mention in that statement of any Chinese SLBM or air-delivered nuclear capacity. It's almost like it was ignored on purpose...

The point is that previously China was happy having enough nukes to give another country a damn good punch in the face that knocks them to the floor and requires stitches, but the US wasn't happy with that, so they started basing weapons in Japan and South Korea to encircle and "contain" China.

Of course China is going to realise the US now represents a real threat and look at what weapons and systems they have and realise that its self defence slap is not going to be good enough against a super power like the US and its cronies.

Of course China is going to want at least parity, and indeed superiority to prevent the US doing something stupid.

The US is bound by agreements in Europe, but China isn't, which led to the US lying about Russia breaking the INF treaty and withdrawing from it... which ironically has made Russias hand much much stronger in Europe because IRBMs and IRCMs are very very effective weapons of war and you need a very decent IADS if you want to face an enemy well equipped with such weapons. HATO IADS is poor and fragmented and no where near unified and totally air based and therefore vulnerable. Russia has an excellent IADS that is only getting better and better as new systems are added and new radars and sensors and lines of communication are added.

Since the end of the INF treaty the speed with which they were able to put Tomahawk cruise missiles in AEGIS ASHORE shows which side was being dishonest and breaking the treaty rules... about 16 days after the US withdrew they tested their first Tomahawk cruise missile from those launchers that were not supposed to be able to load cruise missiles. Who knows how many extra days they waited before the test to make it look like work had to be done for the launch... probably 15 or 16 I would say.

The result now is that China can waste some money on weapons they hopefully will never use but the US gave them no choice and forced their hand... they can certainly afford it, while the US probably can't... they have effectively just doubled the number of ICBMs pointed at the US... are you feeling safer now?

China and Russia are holding one of the largest military drills.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/10/china-and-russia-hold-large-scale-joint-military-drills

PLA's is fielding their Western Theatre Command in these drills. PLA's Western Theatre Command is an Indian specific command and is the largest command of the PLA.

China is not just sending a message to India but is probably also trying to figure out of their Western Theatre Command is battle hardned enough

Sujoy wrote:China and Russia are holding one of the largest military drills.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/10/china-and-russia-hold-large-scale-joint-military-drills

PLA's is fielding their Western Theatre Command in these drills. PLA's Western Theatre Command is an Indian specific command and is the largest command of the PLA.

China is not just sending a message to India but is probably also trying to figure out of their Western Theatre Command is battle hardned enough

I'm no fan of communist china but India has seemed to jump west very fast. No wonder it might spook russia.

TMA1 wrote:I'm no fan of communist china but India has seemed to jump west very fast. No wonder it might spook russia.

Agree! Russia should support China in its effort to invade India.

India today is a failed state with more than a billion people who are now migrating in millions to Russia, other parts of Europe and North America thereby putting tremendous pressure on the resources and culture of those countries.

If China invades India at least 300-500 miillion people can be wiped out who are mostly useless and a huge liability on the free world.

India wants the investment that the west gave China to make her rich and powerful, but I suspect a lot of that money will go to Bangledesh because they would be even cheaper.

If China invades India at least 300-500 miillion people can be wiped out who are mostly useless and a huge liability on the free world.

All the core problems of the world come from the west... destroying that would be an even better move, but probably not necessary as it is destroying itself.

GarryB wrote:India wants the investment that the west gave China to make her rich and powerful, but I suspect a lot of that money will go to Bangledesh because they would be even cheaper.

If China invades India at least 300-500 miillion people can be wiped out who are mostly useless and a huge liability on the free world.

All the core problems of the world come from the west... destroying that would be an even better move, but probably not necessary as it is destroying itself.

If the West is destroyed third world states like India and Bangladesh will also be doomed. Neither Bangladesh nor India will receive any investment from West in manufacturing because the West has largely automated manufacturing.

Anyways, my point was Russia & China teaming up militarily against failed states like India is a commendable development that we all should support. I would encourage Kremlin & Beijing to break India up into smaller states that are more manageable and a number of these states will be pro Russia.

Then Russia should give all its tanks so that China can invade Siberia too ?

Most stupid comment reward go to this guy .

If China invades India at least 300-500 miillion people can be wiped out who are mostly useless and a huge liability on the free world.

The Free World? So you want China to kill 500 million Indians for the benefit of the West?

Anyways, my point was Russia & China teaming up militarily against failed states like India is a commendable development that we all should support.

Who's we? You and the cockroach under your desk?

I would encourage Kremlin & Beijing to break India up into smaller states that are more manageable and a number of these states will be pro Russia.

Maybe you should sell this sales pitch to the United States & the UK, whom have a long, sordid history of genocide, regime change and breaking up countries, kingdoms and empires into dysfunctional statelets instead of begging Russia and China to literally kill millions of their consumers and trading partners.

Russia has no need to make an enemy out of India. India is free to flirt with the US. It will eventually realize that there are
few benefits.

PapaDragon wrote:How about you paki losers grow some balls and go for it yourselves?

Had no doubt in my mind that you are not a Serb but rather one of those low life, low IQ people of color. Explains your fondness for Pakis.

Isos wrote:Then Russia should give all its tanks so that China can invade Siberia too ?

Most stupid comment reward go to this guy .

China has more tanks than Russia has. And has zero plans to invade Russia. Frenchies find hard to understand things as usual.

If the West is destroyed third world states like India and Bangladesh will also be doomed. Neither Bangladesh nor India will receive any investment from West in manufacturing because the West has largely automated manufacturing.

Western investment in China has made her rich and powerful but it was totally unintentional and not the sort of thing they like to do normally.

The game is to build factories in poor countries with cheap expendable labour... anyone is killed in the factory disappears and is replaced... no court cases... maybe $50 for the family in compensation... that is why they "invest" there it is essentially using slave labour to make lots of money on cheap crap.

The west has rigged the world economy to penalise poor countries and limit their ability to grow and develop and be independent... getting rid of the west would be the best possible thing for all independent countries of the world...

Anyways, my point was Russia & China teaming up militarily against failed states like India is a commendable development that we all should support.

Breaking India up into little pieces would only create a whole lot of weak shitholes that could each turn into Afghanistan over night and would not benefit Russia or China in any way or form.

Amusing you think Russia and China should act like the US in a regime change mission to fix the world...

I would encourage Kremlin & Beijing to break India up into smaller states that are more manageable and a number of these states will be pro Russia.

Start with the US and EU and I would agree, but there is no need... they seem to be doing it for themselves.

Russia has no need to make an enemy out of India. India is free to flirt with the US. It will eventually realize that there are
few benefits.

70% of their military stuff is Soviet or Russian, so they are still a very important customer even if idiots on both sides do like to run off at the mouth a bit.

There is only one country seeking conflict between China and India and that is the US because they probably fear them both and want each to weaken the other in some pointless conflict...

The US ordered Canada to arrest a CEO of Huawei... that was all it took to turn Canada against China, but now everything is Chinas fault in China Canada relations... the US isn't that smart... why are Canada and India so stupid?

TMA1 wrote:I'm no fan of communist china but India has seemed to jump west very fast. No wonder it might spook russia.

First, China is NOT communist.

That aside, you seem to think that the West is not pro China. Just this year itself the European members of G7 chose not to accept the US dictum of imposing sanctions on China.

Corporate America itself is the biggest supporter that China has in the West, as Nike's CEO states here in this interview how important China is for Nike

https://twitter.com/CNBCClosingBell/status/1423368894492954626?s=20

Lessons for Russia and India - if we were large enough ( US$ 10 trillion economy), human rights, military misadventure and all the other issues for which we are chided by the West, will be a 10th order variable..

jhelb wrote:

PapaDragon wrote:How about you paki losers grow some balls and go for it yourselves?

Had no doubt in my mind that you are not a Serb but rather one of those low life, low IQ people of color. Explains your fondness for Pakis.

Isos wrote:Then Russia should give all its tanks so that China can invade Siberia too ?

Most stupid comment reward go to this guy .

China has more tanks than Russia has. And has zero plans to invade Russia. Frenchies find hard to understand things as usual.

Go get a brain. What you say is way beyond stuidity. Russia to attack India which was a friend and a client for a century now for Chinese interests...

jhelb wrote:

India today is a failed state with more than a billion people who are now migrating in millions to Russia, other parts of Europe and North America thereby putting tremendous pressure on the resources and culture of those countries.

If China invades India at least 300-500 miillion people can be wiped out who are mostly useless and a huge liability on the free world.

Do you even realize that India is a nuclear power? For China (or Russia) to invade India would be a very costly affair...on both sides. Fortunately neither the Chinese nor the Russians would be that stupid - giving the West a front seat row in witnessing the total destruction of these countries. They would love that!

Sujoy wrote:
China is NOT communist.

China is a Communist country - BUT - it has a market economy. This is the reason why China is fast on it's way to becoming the number one economic power in the world. Their economic policy lifted the country out of poverty and they achieved it in less than 50 years.

Mir wrote:China is a Communist country - BUT - it has a market economy. This is the reason why China is fast on it's way to becoming the number one economic power in the world. Their economic policy lifted the country out of poverty and they achieved it in less than 50 years.

Market economy is prohibited under communism.

Private ownership of productive assets like factories, educational institutions, financial institutions is not allowed under communism. However, ownership of such assets by individuals is allowed in China.

China maybe ruled by a party that defines itself as Communist but even members of this politburo owns private assets described above.

You cannot violate the basic tenants of an ideology and yet describe yourself as an adherent of that same ideology.

Isos wrote:Go get a brain. What you say is way beyond stuidity. Russia to attack India which was a friend and a client for a century now for Chinese interests...

If I find a brain I'll buy it for you. India friend/client of Russia for a century India did not even exist till 1947.

India was a friend/client but now China is Russia's friend and ally and also a client. Russia need not have to fight India directly but should support China when it invades India.

Sujoy wrote:
Market economy is prohibited under communism.

Private ownership of productive assets like factories, educational institutions, financial institutions is not allowed under communism. However, ownership of such assets by individuals is allowed in China.

China maybe ruled by a party that defines itself as Communist but even members of this politburo owns private assets described above.

You cannot violate the basic tenants of an ideology and yet describe yourself as an adherent of that same ideology.  

You contradict yourself here but never the less here is a quote from Wikipedia on the "Economy of China" >> first paragraph reads:

"The economy of the People's Republic of China is a developing market-oriented economy that incorporates economic planning through industrial policies and strategic five-year plans. Dominated by state-owned enterprises (SOEs) and mixed-ownership enterprises, the economy also consists of a large domestic private sector and openness to foreign businesses in a system described as a socialist market economy."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_China

Had no doubt in my mind that you are not a Serb but rather one of those low life, low IQ people of color. Explains your fondness for Pakis.

You misunderstand... he thinks you are a pakistani because you support a Chinese and Russian invasion to destroy India, he does not realise you are Russian.

BTW if you take a DNA test you will find there are very few people with no colour in them... pink and white are colours too.

First, China is NOT communist.

Communism is a system of government and it is the system of government China uses.

Just this year itself the European members of G7 chose not to accept the US dictum of imposing sanctions on China.

For financial reasons, not ideological ones.

They don't want to save China, they have a lot of money invested there and don't want to lose those, and see 1.5 billion customers for their products which is a market they don't want to cut themselves out of either.

The US on the other hand think they can swap from 1.5 billion Chinese buying buying their crap, to 1.2 billion Indians buying their crap... it is a sacrifice they are prepared to go with. Perhaps they have worked out that Indias population is going to keep growing while the population of China might stabilise and level out.

Corporate America itself is the biggest supporter that China has in the West, as Nike's CEO states here in this interview how important China is for Nike

In ten years time Chinese workers are going to demand more rights and more money for the work they do and Corporate America will run to India or Bangledesh for cheap expendable labour sources... hell if the ruble is low enough they might look at shifting production to Russia... but more likely the Ukraine if they can get guarantees their money wont just disappear.

Lessons for Russia and India - if we were large enough ( US$ 10 trillion economy), human rights, military misadventure and all the other issues for which we are chided by the West, will be a 10th order variable..

They also sold out to those western companies and effectively screwed there own people and their own environment... western companies build factories in China because there is no red tape... ironically... you want to build a big factory on this river and pump filth directly into it... go ahead as long as lots of money comes our way we don't care... the workers will work at slave labour levels...

China has been very clever to encourage investment and even more so those Nike factories making shoes 8 hours a day... the manager that runs the factory trains up two more shifts so the factory is running 24/7, but for the other 16 hours it makes Nukee shoes with the same materials and design but different labels which he sells to other markets for $20 a pair. It means very little mark up price but he will sell millions of shoes, and most customers wont bother to bring back shoes they paid $40 for if they only last 2 years, while with Nikes when they wear out after 2 years but cost you $300 a pair you ask for replacements and get a pair for free... which means you are still paying $150 a pair anyway.

Pretty soon that manager has made enough money to build his own factories for making shoes and he starts getting orders and modifying the designs... and his shoes are not worse than western shit we already buy but much cheaper... though as the quality and design get better the price creeps up as wages increase...

Market economy is prohibited under communism.

Rubbish. Market economies have nothing to do with politics.

China is a one party state which is a loose definition of Communism in the west. Technically you might claim they are a socialist state, but to most westerners it is the same thing.

China maybe ruled by a party that defines itself as Communist but even members of this politburo owns private assets described above.

My understanding of the system is that you can go for money or politics but not both, you can be rich or you can be powerful but not both.

Sounds like a good idea to me... look at what has happened in the west... you have companies telling the US drug and food administration to make laws to allow foods made mostly of sugar to be called sugar free... how can that be in the interests of the public?

If I find a brain I'll buy it for you. India friend/client of Russia for a century Razz Razz India did not even exist till 1947.

Russia didn't exist between about 1918 and 1991 either and like India has been artificially fragmented assisted by those white europeans you love so much.

India was a friend/client but now China is Russia's friend and ally and also a client. Russia need not have to fight India directly but should support China when it invades India.

You seem sure China will not invade Russia, yet think they might invade India?

I realise that is what the US wants, but are you really so weak willed to just believe it might be true because the US wants it to happen?

The US also wanted Assad out and Putin out for that matter... two obvious things they have failed miserably in trying to make happen.

The real irony is throwing white power around the place when most western europeans consider Russians to be half asian...

It is white people in the US and UK and EU that stir up chaos and death because they make a lot of money that way... they are nothing to follow or revere.

They want what any country wants.... to be safe.

Previously they didn't feel particularly threatened so the 200-400 odd nukes they had were mostly for regional use with no enormous emphasis on very long range weapons... but now the US is trying to contain China and it is using a lynch mob of other countries to do so and that represents a serious threat to China and they are responding.

Who can tell what level they want to take it to, or their current position in terms of production of nuclear weapons and long range missiles.... they have plenty of money and don't need to convince the people one way or another regarding production...

They say don't poke the Bear... but honestly I would say leave the Dragon alone too if you know what is good for you...

You are totally wrong. Before they were a third world country and couldn't develop their nuclear forces.

Their nuk power plant were from soviet union so they couldn't use it. And their universities were shitty just like their industry.

Then the west used China in the 00s as the world factory, so they got rich and invested in r&d which lead to better programs for their nuclear weapons.

Chinese just want to take US place. They will be the same crazy assholes as US are today. They are led by their appetite for money.