The Situation in the Ukraine. #1

etaepsilonk wrote:

macedonian wrote:
Really begs for the question: "Whatcha gonna do" Mr. "interim president of Ukraine"?!

This is little joke really. I know, what he'll do. He'll go crying to EU "momma", and it will respond somehow for sure.

Sure...the EU...
What are they gonna do?!
Let Ukraine join?! I hope they will, actually, though I don't think the Germans are THAT stupid.
And it's the Germans that run that club, so it'll be up to them.
Let's see. Gets more interesting by the minute.

Things in Crimea look pretty peacefull, as a matter of fact...

macedonian wrote:

etaepsilonk wrote:

macedonian wrote:
Really begs for the question: "Whatcha gonna do" Mr. "interim president of Ukraine"?!

This is little joke really. I know, what he'll do. He'll go crying to EU "momma", and it will respond somehow for sure.

Sure...the EU...
What are they gonna do?!
Let Ukraine join?! I hope they will, actually, though I don't think the Germans are THAT stupid.
And it's the Germans that run that club, so it'll be up to them.
Let's see. Gets more interesting by the minute.

It may support Ukrainian paras with weapons.

And why Germany should be stupid by wanting Ukraine into EU? In fact, it'd be very advantageous for them, a huge country with poor industry, and huge natural resources. How can Germany NOT want that?  

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Janukovich asks Russia to ensure HIS safety:
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140227/187939828/Defiant-Yanukovych-Requests-Russia-Protection.html

What an incredible dumb**ck. His country's in chaos, and he's still only interested in saving his own skin.

Right now Russia should bite the bullet and keep quite.

This new government or the next government and EU dream will collapse eventually.

Russia should build it economy and armed forces.

Austin wrote:Right now Russia should bite the bullet and keep quite.

This new government or the next government and EU dream will collapse eventually.

Russia should build it economy and armed forces.

Agreed, but, in my opinion, at least a couple of spetsnaz battalions should be based in Sevastopol, just in case things go south.

etaepsilonk wrote:It may support Ukrainian paras with weapons.

And why Germany should be stupid by wanting Ukraine into EU? In fact, it'd be very advantageous for them, a huge country with poor industry, and huge natural resources. How can Germany NOT want that?  

When not in war the Germans tend to be rational. They weigh in the Pros and Cons, and act accordingly.
And in this case the Cons outweigh the Pros by a large margin (at least to the rational mind).
So unless they go full-scale nazi (or something similar) anytime soon, I don't think they'll take on Russia (knowing what they know).
But, stranger thing are known to have happened, so I'm not ruling anything out.
One can only hope for the best.

macedonian wrote:

etaepsilonk wrote:It may support Ukrainian paras with weapons.

And why Germany should be stupid by wanting Ukraine into EU? In fact, it'd be very advantageous for them, a huge country with poor industry, and huge natural resources. How can Germany NOT want that?  

When not in war the Germans tend to be rational. They weigh in the Pros and Cons, and act accordingly.
And in this case the Cons outweigh the Pros by a large margin (at least to the rational mind).
So unless they go full-scale nazi (or something similar) anytime soon, I don't think they'll take on Russia (knowing what they know).
But, stranger thing are known to have happened, so I'm not ruling anything out.
One can only hope for the best.

In the last days of 888 war, Latvian prime minister was openly advocating shipments of weapons to Georgia.
Does this sound rational to you??

etaepsilonk wrote:In the last days of 888 war, Latvian prime minister was openly advocating shipments of weapons to Georgia.
Does this sound rational to you??

Of course it doesn't.
But did he send any?

And please don't mix Latvia with Germany/England/France. Latvia (along with other countries - mine included) are just pawns allowed to move ONLY in the direction that their master (the US) tells them to. Others have more room to maneuver. And ever since the Bosnia/Kosovo intervention by NATO, the rules have changed and international law means NOTHING at present. Courtesy of Uncle Sam...

"Of course it doesn't.
But did he send any?"

No, he didn't. Because the war ended.





"And please don't mix Latvia with Germany/England/France."

What?   Sorry, but political polarisation among EU countries is a fairytale for little children. Among EU countries, general policy, both internal and foreign, is the same. So, for Germany to act as "peace loving buddy" is just a good cover, mostly for internal consumption.
An example is Libya. Yes, Merkel said that bombing people was bad, but what measures did she take to prevent other EU countries from bombing the crap out of it? NOTHING WHATSOEVER.
And why this was the case? You think that Germany doesn't have enough leverage within the EU?        Please...




"Latvia (along with other countries - mine included) are just pawns allowed to move ONLY in the direction that their master (the US) tells them to."

It takes a great naiviety to believe this, in my opinion. Every single EU member state is a pawn, taking orders not from US, but from so called "European government" in Brussels and Strasbourg.
And what's even funnier, even the most powerful EU members have far less leverage on these people, than one could think  


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There'll be a referendum on Crimea's status in 25th of May.
http://russian.rt.com/article/23266

Damnit, why not sooner?  

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/ukraine/2014/ukraine-140226-rferl01.htm?_m=3n%2e002a%2e1048%2edd0ao031i6%2eyj3

Well, surprise, surprise   

"Ukraine seeks NATO support


NATO Ministers of Ukraine for support in ensuring the territorial integrity of the Crimean government buildings occupied prorussian armed individuals.

NATO ministerial meeting in Brussels attended Minister for Defence Marijus Velichka told that this was only the first request of the Ukrainian Defense Vice-Minister Oleksandr Oliynyk ( Oleksandr Olijniko ) on Thursday took part in the NATO - Ukraine Commission meeting.

" Specific measures was the fact that NATO as an organization recognize the Ukrainian territory is an integral and indivisible into any part of it , and today is the only application that was made ," - said M.Velička .

Ukraine's ambassador to NATO , Ihor Dolhovas turn reporters on Thursday at the end of the meeting of Ministers expressed the hope that Russia will express the international community's calls for Ukraine to be effective.

"We hope that all parties , especially when the situation is so complex that act in accordance with international rules . No such international law, which would allow interference , especially in the military , in another development of the country . Therefore we kliaunamės international norms and also hope to appeal, you can hear not only from Brussels, but also in other places of the Russian government , will give results, " - said the ambassador ."

http://www.delfi.lt/news/daily/lithuania/ukraina-praso-nato-paramos.d?id=64148680 # ixzz2uXRoKync

NATO wont do any thing it does not have the stomach to fight .... US and NATO cant fight wars they have gone bankrupt.

My View is

If Ukraine wants to join EUAA then it is fine their choice .........  EU associated agreeement is not a rosy path but will lead today to same situation as Greece is in. Just give it time and Ukranian will realise its not worth 

EU is bankrupt economy with exceptional high debt and US economy is no better .......wait for 5-6 more years both economy will collapse when the Bubble Economy based on Printing blows off.

Russia should focus on building its economy  keep buying more Gold and build stronger economic ties with China.

Build up military in the next 10 years as there would be many predators.

No point in raising hysteria , Keep Cool , Support the South/North they will need that badly when their industry collapses after joining EU.

Austin wrote:NATO wont do any thing it does not have the stomach to fight .... US and NATO cant fight wars they have gone bankrupt.

I disagree. No one's saying, that NATO will send armies, but they can indeed fight via proxies, a much cheaper method.


Also, even if NATO countries don't have money, they can easily BORROW these with their AAA credit ratings.

etaepsilonk wrote:

Austin wrote:NATO wont do any thing it does not have the stomach to fight .... US and NATO cant fight wars they have gone bankrupt.

I disagree. No one's saying, that NATO will send armies, but they can indeed fight via proxies, a much cheaper method.


Also, even if NATO countries don't have money, they can easily BORROW these with their AAA credit ratings.

Any fight in their own backyard and border via proxy might hurt them too ... its not good for them.

They dont borrow money they just print it and do financial fraud .....which wont last beyond 5 years at worst.

Even your quote is wrong my friend.
Quantity has quality of its own is the right one.

To Austin:
"Any fight in their own backyard and border via proxy might hurt them too ... its not good for them."

Did Yugoslavia hurt them?   




"They dont borrow money they just print it and do financial fraud .....which wont last beyond 5 years at worst."

Printing money results in money oversupply with it's own problems.






To Hannibal:
"Even your quote is wrong my friend.
Quantity has quality of its own is the right one."

I know    I wrote this, because it works both ways  

Yugoslavia was a full scale military conflict at a time when Economy was experiencing the so called Peace Divident after collapse of SU.

Right now US nor Europe dont have the economy for any war they are absolutely bankrupt.

And Russia is not a bankrupt low military power of 90's ....... things have changed.

Check this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3A21Qewd9o

Austin wrote:NATO wont do any thing it does not have the stomach to fight

to assume such things of one's adversary is to lose the war before it even starts.

Airbornewolf wrote:

Austin wrote:NATO wont do any thing it does not have the stomach to fight

to assume such things of one's adversary is to lose the war before it even starts.

You really dont fight a war with a nuclear armed neighbour ..... you deter them.

But NATO is in no position to attack afghanistan today forget about any thing closer to their border.

Europe is a BANKRUPT nation and mark that in BOLD

To Austin:
"Yugoslavia was a full scale military conflict at a time when Economy was experiencing the so called Peace Divident after collapse of SU."

I think it's irrelevant for outsiders, if war is full scale, or part- scale.





"Right now US nor Europe dont have the economy for any war they are absolutely bankrupt."

USA was also bankrupt in late 30-ties. Did that deterred them from going into WW2?




"And Russia is not a bankrupt low military power of 90's ....... things have changed."

Again, we aren't talking about direct confrontation. Think Afghanistan.




"Check this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3A21Qewd9o"

Well, I'm not very knowledgeable in those economic matters, but I don't find his arguments convincing enough for me. And there has been plenty of "doom and gloom" prophets, whose words didn't materialize. No offense.

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Anyway, moving back to Ukraine.

I think it would be nice for someone to give more insight about those Ukrainian para organisations, such as that "pravy sektor" and so on.

As of yet, I found something about organisation called "trizub" (trident).
http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B7%D1%83%D0%B1_%28%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%96%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%86%D1%96%D1%8F%29

It allegedly follows the ideas of Bandera or something.



Now, this is interesting:
http://lndp.lt/diskusijos/viewtopic.php?f=97&t=10544



Lookie, what we have here, "PS" facebook page   
https://www.facebook.com/RightSectorUkraine

First of all Europe is not a nation, it is an insult even when we hear it as an unintentional mistake    Actually it is an economic entity which was created to the idea of an integration to a huge market which would boost  revenues. Now they try to use it as a political organization to back up USA. It will not  work, actually is a terrible liability (1) 

Yes West is in a huge economic trap. Having said this the fellows make a point. The opponent should never be underestimated. True statement. (2)

Ukraine is not only divided but they are also in a very low point economic and socially wise. The reason why I am optimistic for India despite being still in a sub-Saharan level is because Indians seem to have wisdom about what should be done. Seem to have unity, seem to have patience and they know when they should blame themselves. Finally they still have strong demographics. In Ukraine non of this are true (3)

I believe by evaluating (1)+(2)+(3) and the fact that Russian public opinion is reluctant to pay Ukrainians for ever and tolerate Ukraine's constant ingratitude the main donors and investors of Ukraine aka Russia and China took a complex decision. Agreed that it is much better to expose the inability of the West to solve the economic problems of Ukraine and create frustration and conflict in the western parts of the country than drag forever those useless Ukrainians who will not only never show any gratitude but always complain being in Russia's iron fist and dreaming for the super rich super democratic west.

Yes it makes sense. Actually is the only way ever for Ukraine to integrate to anything useful with Russia. It is not direct, it is not immediate but there is really no alternative. If the crisis was 10 years ago Russia had to try to hold everything. Now there is no money, no investments in West even to keep the dream for a few years. We experience this in Greece. The government here begs for pennies to save it's ass from total collapse and they don't get anything. It seems that Ukrainians demand more that the 25 billions they are getting from Russia and China. EU is completely laughable so far. Offers less than a third via IMF and we all know what does this mean. MEGA AUSTERITY and  increases in prices, taxation, lift of tariffs protecting industry, a nightmare!! USA even guaranteed 1 billion yesterday to help the new allies, pathetic. If they don't come out with something substantially better and soon it will be a historic fiasco.

That's some crazy stuff happening   
http://4vlada.com/rivne/33505

Now that Yanukovich is in Russia..

I think the next step would be to paradrop his corrupt, incompetent, sorry ass right into the centre of Kiev - and see how long he survives. Make him appoint a successor first of course.
Equip him with a camera on live broadcast too; make a show out of it - The Running Man style

If he makes it to the Russian border then he will have earnt himself amnesty; although it won't do anything for the millions of people in East Ukraine that he ditched and left without a plan or any leadership.

US could not afford a war in Ukraine as they have to defend Japan against China in their conflict over islands. I also think there is more probable war between US and China over Japan than between NATO and Russia over Ukraine.

Ukraine in a nutshell