The Situation in the Ukraine. #1

I have to say, I'm a bit scared. What the hell is going on? Crimea didn't seem in danger. Maybe it's all to give hope to the east, but it would be risky, right?
Here in Italy the shitstorm has started. All the media is screaming of "soviet invasion" (not kidding) of Ukraine. Even the state owned news channel speaks in that way. Nobody, politicians, journalists or anchorman, is prepared on this subject. Ignorance is complete. And surprise: in 2008 Russia attacked Georgia. No hope for justice here.

zino wrote:I have to say, I'm a bit scared. What the hell is going on? Crimea didn't seem in danger. Maybe it's all to give hope to the east, but it would be risky, right?
Here in Italy the shitstorm has started. All the media is screaming of "soviet invasion" (not kidding) of Ukraine. Even the state owned news channel speaks in that way. Nobody, politicians, journalists or anchorman, is prepared on this subject. Ignorance is complete. And surprise: in 2008 Russia attacked Georgia. No hope for justice here.

No hope for justice in what? In 2008, Georgia attacked Russians. This is a different case and I am not entirely pleased that Russia has men in Crimea for this.

Russia has very little soft power, in fact none. It does have hard power. It is also an inherently unstable country which is continually under attack in various ways by geopolitical competitors. There is no such thing as peace and prosperity for a liberal democratic Russia 9unless you consider Russia completed neutered and broken into multiple states as your outcome.

Look at Chechnya as an example. Relatively peaceful (now) with streets named after Putin. This is after Russia pulverized Chechnya twice.

Or, look at Georgia. Did Russia gain or loss in the short run from it military intervention ? Where would it be had it folded in the face of Georgian aggression ?

Bottom line is neither NATO or the US will risk thermonuclear war with Russia. To even suggest or make movements towards a military confrontation and then to loss or have to facedown means the end of NATO. Putin will determine how far to take it and the ultimate power to decide what happens to Ukraine is in his hands.

Actually USA risks everyday nuclear war with Russia and China, by interfering and overthrowing governments, installing pro USA puppets and more NATO bases to surrender Russia. If Putin would be a hardliner he would already draw a red line and to undermine this red line he would use cold war tactics and demonstrate actual power and not some drills as a reaction.

They could attack cold war like enemy submarines and if one sinks, they would only take revange but not wage a nuclear war, they did it in cold war and it never ended, USA keeps it alive.

Russia had puppet regime to until recently  But don't worry, they will put him back somewhere.

Haha now we can see fear in Ukrainian faces, Turchninov was shitting himself on live tv. Now they are trying to be calm and act cool. Ukrainians asking for foreign support, but we all know it's their fight. 

Russia now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoqDYcCDOTg

Still Russia is alienating all Ukraine not only western part, but hey You win some You loose some. Plenty of them working in Russia anyway.

I can only hope Russia has good military plan and AD will be dealt with so AF can have fun times. I almost feel bad for 18 year old ukrainian conscripts who might face Black fleet marines  Hell they should send maidan with their shields reinforced with salo as well, was cool to watch how well they stopped bullets.

flamming_python wrote:Russia, if it takes control of the Crimea (which I'm far from convinced that this is what it's doing), would be acting to neutralize any possible threat from the new Kiev government. This is because it supports Yanukovich as the legitimate authority, and wants to rally the South-Eastern Ukrainian regions around him.

This isn't the same as breaking away the Crimea from the Ukraine.

Once again, talk by the new Kiev government of invasion, sovereignty, etc... is pretty farcial - they are illegitimate themselves.

There was other option as well. You guys could've waited for real uprising and you could have saved yourselves from the outcry. The more Russia blood spilled the more justifiable Russian invasion could be. 
It wouldn't be long people would start movement against their new government even before election. Do You think there is support for Yanukovitch You have to bring him back? You can't simply force feed people with ideas and when they are passive as You can get. I feel sorry for those idiots who will take Yanukovich as their leader.
Don't forget tatars are not so eager to join Russia and there are some of them in Crimea and their extremism could be dangerous.

I think Russia should calm down now and not take any military action in Crimea.

The new maidan govenrnment will fall down eventually and its better to use soft way of power like protest in East and South.

Time to take a Cold  Tea and relax.

Let's see if armed men take the local government offices in Luhansk, Donetsk, Kharkov. That will be a sign the game is widening. Already Kadyrov has offered to send Chechen "volunteers". I wonder what the over/under is on how many Chechens could take all of Kiev. I say 2,000 max.

If the conflict is framed correctly, it will be a "free Ukrainian" army attempting to regain legitimate governmental control in Kiev - not a Russian invasion. The Ukrainian military or large parts of it will just sit it out. Remember they don't get involved in domestic politics.

This is a delebrate trap by bankrupt Western Nation to engage Russia in some form of war and then use it as an opportunity to  break Russian Economy which will directly lead to weakening of its defence.

The best option is to sit on the fence and let people on North and South do the fighting for you.

We have been here before in Orange revolution and IMF condition will make the life more difficult for the people.

Just stay out and play the game.

Austin wrote:This is a delebrate trap by bankrupt Western Nation to engage Russia in some form of war and then use it as an opportunity to  break Russian Economy which will directly lead to weakening of its defence.

The best option is to sit on the fence and let people on North and South do the fighting for you.

We have been here before in Orange revolution and IMF condition will make the life more difficult for the people.

Just stay out and play the game.

I disagree, the situation looks in no way controlled by ze west, much less set it up as a trap.
Also for me the best option is to show force- rally those who want to fight the nazis.
western soft power is BS, its drum and bass - what you gonna do?

Any updates on things on the ground?

I'm tired of BBC's propaganda bullsh*t like:

BBC wrote:US President Barack Obama has warned Russia there will be "costs" for any military intervention in Ukraine.
He said he was deeply concerned by reports of Russian military movements inside the country.

and

BBC wrote:Speaking from the White House, President Obama commended Ukraine's interim government for its "restraint".

Austin wrote:This is a delebrate trap by bankrupt Western Nation to engage Russia in some form of war and then use it as an opportunity to  break Russian Economy which will directly lead to weakening of its defence.

The best option is to sit on the fence and let people on North and South do the fighting for you.

We have been here before in Orange revolution and IMF condition will make the life more difficult for the people.

Just stay out and play the game.

Major wars (WWII as a good example) were fought by bankrupt states.  Money is one thing, military can be another.  If your nation is under threat, then money goes out the window and you can promise other services for their time/service in the military and military industrial complex.  Germany was bankrupt yet they managed to pull the blitzkrieg and have the industrial power behind them. Only reason this applies to certain countries though, is because of the MIC. Pakistan has a weak economy, and a weak military in many aspects, because it has to buy its products from outside. Russia on the other hand, doesn't have to.

Russian economy is changing anyway.  In the end, they are looking to build their own domestic consumption base and anything else that needs importing, is coming from China.  Few things are imported from Germany or Japan, but ultimately, that stuff can be acquired by Russian enterprises making their own (even if not better quality) and or third party like through China.  As well, Russia holds the energy card over EU and US has pretty much no economic power over Russia, these two entities are at a bind, especially when the fact that many EU nations rely more on energy from Russia after closing many nuclear power plants.  Russia may lose some investments (France does not seem concerned) and Russia may pull back its foreign investments, but there are always more countries willing to invest in Russia and vice versa.  Doing so, if EU does pull anything to undermine Russia's economy, it will end up being that drive where they will further develop their own domestic consumption base, and charge more for energy that EU oh so needs.

They screwed up.  They realize this.  Hence, besides basic finger wagging from western politicians, nothing is being done.

macedonian wrote:Any updates on things on the ground?

I'm tired of BBC's propaganda bullsh*t like:

BBC wrote:US President Barack Obama has warned Russia there will be "costs" for any military intervention in Ukraine.
He said he was deeply concerned by reports of Russian military movements inside the country.

and

BBC wrote:Speaking from the White House, President Obama commended Ukraine's interim government for its "restraint".

Things are kinda quiet right now.  BBC is only spewing out what their hero says.  Obama didn't even mention what actions he would take if Russia did anything, because there are no actions.

Crimean authorities asked Putin to ensure peace

The new Prime Minister of Crimea Sergey Aksenov appointed February 27, Saturday morning makes urgent message. In it, he appealed to Russian President Vladimir Putin with a request for assistance in securing peace and stability in the autonomous republic. Furthermore, Aksenov announced that temporarily reassigned all the power structures of the Crimea: MIA, CVM, Sun, MOE, navy, tax and border services. Aksenov treatment was shown on the TV channel "Russia 24".

His decision to chairman of the Council of Ministers said that the autonomy are unidentified armed groups and military equipment, and located in the Crimea security forces are unable to effectively control the situation. Furthermore, Aksenov said on Friday Kiev has violated the agreement on the appointment of heads of non-law enforcement agencies without the consent of the Supreme Council of Crimea and Crimean police chief announced Igor Avrutskaya.

more at source.

Obama made those statements to please American ....he should look strong on Russia as he has been flaunted for failure of its foreign policy.........so give that guy some space.

Neither NATO or CSTO will end up in any military conflict over Ukraine ......there are for more pressing needs at home for these countries.

Dont go by western media ....more provocative headline gets more advertisement , eyeball and add revenue.

If Obama said anything else, people would be jumping at him: "Why are we spending money/American lives off shore!".

The guy can't win with his detractors.
This is not America's business, it is as simple as that.

BBC:

Ukraine crisis: Crimea leader appeals to Putin for help

BBC wrote:The new pro-Moscow leader of Ukraine's autonomous Crimea region has asked Russian President Vladimir Putin for help to ensure peace.

A Kremlin source said it would "not leave unnoticed" the request from Sergiy Aksyonov.

US President Barack Obama warned Moscow against intervention after mysterious troop movements.

Ukraine's interim Prime Minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, said Kiev would not "give in to Russian provocation".

More@BBC

Feast your eyes on this . THE LIVES OF UKRAINE'S NEW LEADERS

http://globaldiscussion.net/topic/5705-ukrainian-leaders-live-average-lives-by-american-standards/

As much as I think that Ukraine is not solely to blame in this whole thing (au contraire: I think Russia bears great deal of the blame here), I now find myself hoping that other South/East regions will follow suit and ask Russia for help. That would leave Ukraine landlocked and much of its strategic value will be gone.
But why I feel this way is not because of my (quite evident) Russophilia, but because Ukraine chose the worst of partners...you know - the people that bomb other countries for the sake of 'democracy' and 'human rights'. If things were the other way around - I'd probably cheer for the other side.

Sujoy wrote:Feast your eyes on this . THE LIVES OF UKRAINE'S NEW LEADERS

http://globaldiscussion.net/topic/5705-ukrainian-leaders-live-average-lives-by-american-standards/

A mere propaganda piece by Voice of Russia honestly.
I'd rather have them post that story about the Israeli special forces guy that led people against the Ukrainian Government...

Voice of Russia:

Unidentified armed people try to seize Crimean Interior Ministry - Russian FM

VoR wrote:Overnight into March 1st, a group of unidentified armed people, sent from Kiev, attempted to seize the building of the Crimean Interior Ministry, some people were injured, the Russian Foreign Ministry says in a statemen

More@ VoR

Sujoy wrote:Feast your eyes on this . THE LIVES OF UKRAINE'S NEW LEADERS

http://globaldiscussion.net/topic/5705-ukrainian-leaders-live-average-lives-by-american-standards/

Well. I mean...

Yulia is a thief. Everyone knows this.

Kiltchko is a top tier, long time HW champ, prize fighter. That is serious money, and is certainly earned.

Well, seems there's an outbreak of amnesia among 'western foreign ministers'...they seem to have forgotten what they've signed just a few weeks ago, and now decided to come up with a diametrically opposed statement to the previous one:

Sheise wrote:Joint declaration by the Foreign Ministers of Poland, Germany and France on the situation in Ukraine

Hypocrites wrote:We take note of the formation of a transitional government in Ukraine supported by a broad majority of votes in the Ukrainian parliament. This transitional government will have to face immense challenges in order to improve the standards of living of the citizens of Ukraine which can be only achieved through the implementation of the transition and modernization reforms, including fight with corruption, and respect for democratic values. We are ready to support Ukraine in these efforts.

We remain convinced that political stability and reforms in Ukraine require a broad consensus supported by all relevant stakeholders without exception. In particular, a lasting accommodation of the existing diversity in Ukrainian society necessitates reaching out to Eastern and Southern regions and engaging with all legitimate interests, including minority rights especially regarding language issues.

The situation facing Ukraine can only be addressed in a sustainable fashion, if all major political forces unite and pursue a common agenda.

We are deeply concerned with the tensions in Crimea. Everything must be done to decrease the tension in the eastern region and promote peaceful discussions among relevant parties. We restate our support for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the country.

We appeal to all parties in Ukraine to refrain from actions that could challenge this.

Laurent Fabius, Foreign Minister of the French Republic

Radosław Sikorski, Foreign Minister of the Republic of Poland

Frank-Walter Steinmeier, Foreign Minister of the Federal Republic of Germany

The hypocrisy here is mind-boggling!

US use 5 billion $ to install nazi regime in Ukraine, to promote a new cold war between NATO and Russia/China. They need a new cold war for profits of their military industry complex. Unfortunately this cold war will bring thermonuclear war between them. In shorter terms, you could be sure, that nazis getting power in Ukraine will also bring to rise of nazis and right wing parties in EU, specially in France and Germany and consequently the fall of EU itself. You could be sure, that NATO will attack Syria in this year and Iran in coming years. West will in their blind hate force WW3 to the World, but at the end Europe will be the most destroyed after it.

medo wrote:...will also bring to rise of nazis and right wing parties in EU, specially in France and Germany and consequently the fall of EU itself....

Sweeter words have never been written on this forum - I can hardly wait!
I mean at least NATO is seeking for global dominance of America - and can do little to hide it, this lot (the EU) are just hypocrites that don't even follow their own values...fcuk them!

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edit:

Вооруженного российского солдата задержали при попытке проникновения на территорию воинской части в Крыму

Google translated:

Armed Russian soldier was detained while trying to enter the territory of the military unit in Crimea

Well, well someone is backtracking (coached by their 'western partners' perhaps?):

ITAR-TASS wrote:Yatsenyuk calls on urgent law on language to offer guarantees to national minorities

ITAR-TASS wrote:

KIEV, March 01, 13:17 /ITAR-TASS/. Ukraine’s Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk, appointed by the Verkhovna Rada, called on urgent work on a new law on language, which would offer guarantees for all national minorities.

On February 23, the Verkhovna Rada /parliament/ repealed the law on the state language policy, where 232 members of the parliament voted for the decision.

The law came into force on August 10, 2012. Under the law, the Russian language received a status of a regional one in the territories where at least ten percent of the population considered it to be their mother tongue. The government reported the Russian language received the status in the country’s 13 of 27 regions.

ITAR-TASS


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Edit:

From RT:

RT wrote:09:58 GMT:

A referendum on the future of Crimea will take place March 30, two months earlier than previously scheduled, said the Chairman of the Crimean Council of Ministers, Sergey Aksenov, RIA Novosti reported.