The Situation in the Ukraine. #1

flamming_python wrote:They are Black Sea Fleet marines. At least those on the photos we've seen anyway. Surprised they have facemasks and foregrips on their AKs; everything else looks like def. standard issue for marine and motor-rifle units.
Hilarious how on mp.net after 10 pages they still can't figure it out. Was obvious from the 1st photo.
They have no chevrons/force branch patches/flags because there's nowhere good on the uniform to sow them on, so many units just never bothered. We had the same problem too back in 2010/2011. An oversight really.

Thanks FP.
Makes much sense since there was not enough time to bring in other troops.

wait, is that the tank guy? the one who disses the T-90?

it's sad to see Russia using ex con crook to propelly their actions. Now he will enjoy good life in Russia. Nice

sepheronx wrote:wow, so apparently Russia having exercises in their own country somehow warrants Russia being a cry baby (according to retards on mp.net) yet it is a different story when US has war games in Lithuania, Estonia and the like.

What a bunch of losers.

Having participated in few I must say that in no way they are close to Russian war games. It's more or less in perfecting cooperation, small localised conflicts and other not so amazing stuff. But Russian excersises are on grand scale and they depict something else, so no wonder some peoplw are scared   

Regular wrote:it's sad to see Russia using ex con crook to propelly their actions. Now he will enjoy good life in Russia. Nice

Not the best cast in this movie, I agree. If anything he'd be a great villain in a comedy - not even suitable for a proper villain in a 'B' movie...but one has to play the hand as it's dealt, and this hand has been dealt some time ago. I think The Kremlin has to cover some work on 'in-advance contingency planing' because they seem to react as the events unfold, WITHOUT any anticipation. Hell, one only needs little experience in a marketing agency to know how to deal in 'Crysis Marketing', but the Kremlin seems to lack those abilities...That's why I think that Lavrov would be a much better leader for Russia than Putin is, but that's off topic now...

ITAR-TASS wrote:Agreements Russian Black Sea Fleet in Crimea should be cancelled — Ukrainian parliament

ITAR-TASS wrote:KIEV, February 28. /ITAR-TASS/. The Kharkiv agreements on the stay of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet in Ukraine should be cancelled, Ukrainian parliament deputy Oleg Lyashko said.

“Due to Russia’s position on Crimea the Kharkiv agreements should be immediately denounced,” the deputy said.

On April 21, 2010 in Kharkiv, the Presidents of Russia and Ukraine, Dmitry Medvedev and Viktor Yanukovych signed a historical agreement. Under the document, Ukraine will get a 10-year-discount on Russian gas. In return Yanukovych agreed to extend the Black Sea Fleet’s lease in Sevastopol by 25 years.

In June 2010 Medvedev and Yanukovych signed a law on ratification of the agreement to extend the Black Sea Fleet’s presence in the Crimea after 2017 for another 25 years.

ITAR-TASS

These f*ckers are REALLY pushing it now!
I wonder if it's just emotional talk, or have they been 'persuaded' that they can get away with it...
If so, I think America is biting more than it can chew...as strong as they are - they're NOT invincible.

Fcuk it FP! I'm really tired of this crap!
As I've said times before in this thread (and in other threads) - Slavic nations are really fertile grounds to play 'Divide et impera' with.
We're the sorry fckuers, and it's 'people in the West, pulling the strings' that are laughing and petting themselves on the back for being able to play these games with us.
We definitely deserve whatever we get, and that goes for the Ukrainians as well.

Any news about rumors of Ukrainian Navy officers resignation?

macedonian wrote: Slavic nations are really fertile grounds to play 'Divide et impera' with.

macedonian you are being kind to us (Indians)   

Anyways , coming to the topic . What the US & UK are trying to find out is if they can bring about a regime change in Ukraine today can they replicate this process in Russia tomorrow . This is all that there is to it .

Austin wrote:Yugoslavia was a full scale military conflict at a time when Economy was experiencing the so called Peace Divident after collapse of SU.

Right now US nor Europe dont have the economy for any war they are absolutely bankrupt.

And Russia is not a bankrupt low military power of 90's ....... things have changed.

NATO block has the annual defence spending nearly $1 trillion.  Waging a regional war without occupation can be paid for in the operations budget. Ukraine is not some nothing nation like Georgia, EU would respond requiring Obama to do something. If we send troops we better think carefully or it could cost dearly.

macedonian wrote:Apparently Yanuk was escorted to Russia by fighter jets.

Yanukovych Escorted to Russia By Fighter Jets – Report

RIA wrote:MOSCOW, February 28 (RIA Novosti) – Deposed Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych landed at a military airport in southern Russia late on Thursday escorted by fighter jets, a local news agency has reported.

Yanukovych, whose whereabouts have since his ouster been subject of feverish speculation, is scheduled to hold a news conference in the southwestern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don at 5 p.m. local time (1100 GMT) on Friday.

“The plane with the embattled president onboard was escorted by several fighter jets. The boom of supersonic engines was heard for half an hour in the northwestern part of the city, where the airport is located,” local news agency DonInformBuro reported.

Kinda weird that:

The boom of supersonic engines was heard for half an hour

How fast was his jet flying?!

Sounds like bullshit to me.  He isn't worth a fighter escort nor do fighters go supersonic to escort a passenger jet.

Sujoy wrote:

macedonian wrote: Slavic nations are really fertile grounds to play 'Divide et impera' with.

macedonian you are being kind to us (Indians)   

Mate - I've read plenty of history...and...maybe we can call it a tie eh?!   

Sujoy wrote:Anyways , coming to the topic . What the US & UK are trying to find out is if they can bring about a regime change in Ukraine today can they replicate this process in Russia tomorrow . This is all that there is  to it .

Correct, that's what they're probing.

Vladimir79 wrote:Sounds like bullshit to me.  He isn't worth a fighter escort nor do fighters go supersonic to escort a passenger jet.  

You and me both, but since this is a RIAnews report, I reckon Putin begs to differ.
I can only hope they have a good plan in place.

macedonian wrote:I can only hope they have a good plan in place.

If Scotland breaks off from the UK a whole lot of these turmoils across Europe & Asia will also show a decline coz the UK will have far lesser resources . But I doubt Scotland will break off just like Quebec went to the elections but chose not to break off from Canada .

Deep Throat wrote:

macedonian wrote:I can only hope they have a good plan in place.

If Scotland breaks off from the UK a whole lot of these turmoils across Europe & Asia will also show a decline  coz the UK will have far lesser resources . But I doubt Scotland will break off just like Quebec went to the elections but chose not to break off from Canada .

I agree in full.

macedonian wrote:

Vladimir79 wrote:Sounds like bullshit to me.  He isn't worth a fighter escort nor do fighters go supersonic to escort a passenger jet.  

You and me both, but since this is a RIAnews report, I reckon Putin begs to differ.
I can only hope they have a good plan in place.

Ever since they kicked out the independent editors from RIA, its credibility has gone to shit.

Vladimir79 wrote:

macedonian wrote:

Vladimir79 wrote:Sounds like bullshit to me.  He isn't worth a fighter escort nor do fighters go supersonic to escort a passenger jet.  

You and me both, but since this is a RIAnews report, I reckon Putin begs to differ.
I can only hope they have a good plan in place.

Ever since they kicked out the independent editors from RIA, its credibility has gone to shit.  

I haven't noticed thus far.
As a matter of fact I've NEVER seen RIA Novosti post a report that didn't end up to be true.
I'm not saying there isn't one though - just that I've yet to see one...

macedonian wrote:

I haven't noticed thus far.
As a matter of fact I've NEVER seen RIA Novosti post a report that didn't end up to be true.
I'm not saying there isn't one though - just that I've yet to see one...

The new agency only took over the first of the year.  That report we just read was false.  Putin's statements on the change explain why...

“I want to tell you that government information resources must be headed by patriotically-minded people who protect the interests of the Russian Federation,” Putin said when asked about the media overhaul during his marathon press conference on Thursday. “These are government resources. That is how it will be.”  

Any news effecting the interests of Russia can and will be edited in a positive light. I no longer trust this news source.

Vladimir79 wrote:

macedonian wrote:

I haven't noticed thus far.
As a matter of fact I've NEVER seen RIA Novosti post a report that didn't end up to be true.
I'm not saying there isn't one though - just that I've yet to see one...

The new agency only took over the first of the year.  That report we just read was false.  Putin's statements on the change explain why...

“I want to tell you that government information resources must be headed by patriotically-minded people who protect the interests of the Russian Federation,” Putin said when asked about the media overhaul during his marathon press conference on Thursday. “These are government resources. That is how it will be.”  

Any news effecting the interests of Russia can and will be edited in a positive light.  I no longer trust this news source.  

I know that - I was the one that first posted the news here (and strongly disagreed with the whole thing since RIA was my primary source for info).
But again, I've yet to see them be wrong on their reports.
Perhaps the changes didn't take effect as fast as people in charge thought they would?

Vladimir79 wrote:

Austin wrote:Yugoslavia was a full scale military conflict at a time when Economy was experiencing the so called Peace Divident after collapse of SU.

Right now US nor Europe dont have the economy for any war they are absolutely bankrupt.

And Russia is not a bankrupt low military power of 90's ....... things have changed.

NATO block has the annual defence spending nearly $1 trillion.  Waging a regional war without occupation can be paid for in the operations budget. Ukraine is not some nothing nation like Georgia, EU would respond requiring Obama to do something.  If we send troops we better think carefully or it could cost dearly.  

Meh, that $1T with about 3/4 going to just paying for bases and personnel. In the end, the situation can pay more dearly for the EU than it can for the Russians. I mean, Pristina airport in 1999 should give us the indication that NATO wouldn't do much to Russia if Russia is in the scene. That was when Russia didn't even have a defence budget.

Ukraine is the special case as it is an economic disaster but a good location for EU/NATO. For Russia, its really just a buffer state that has some real crazy folks in the west and some pretty decent sounding people in the east. Seeing as how it is Krushchevs fault for the Crimea being part of Ukraine now when it belonged to Russia, it is really only fair now that it belongs to Russia now. If the end of the USSR meant that it goes back to the old territories prior to USSR integration, then technically Crimea should be in Russia. I would really like to see the written agreement about Crimea belonging to Ukraine though.

That said, if these are indeed Russian troops, then I applaud Russia for actually stepping in and wanting to do something for a part of the nation that does not view the current people in Kiev as a legitimate government (only western countries right now do, and it is against our beliefs in so called democracy. So we are being astronomically hypocritical) and who are being continuously threatened by the Maiden Thugs. This also shows the world that Russia really isn't a nation that will be pushed around. Regardless of this incident, NATO's plans have been very critical of Russia and surrounding it to place ABM's around it. Radar in Turkey, ABM systems in Poland, etc etc etc. In the end, this was a smart move.

As well, having the military drills in the western district means that the movement of equipment to the western borders will also mean readiness of the troops and equipment if things do go down. Which is something NATO is afraid of because they have only small presence compared to that of Russia in the region. Too thinly spread out.

Wow, those Mi-24s flying from Sevastopol are actually new Mi-35s.

Some guy on Mp.net took a couple of frames from the video, it is clearly the new birds.

Airbornewolf wrote:

Vladimir79 wrote:

Austin wrote:Yugoslavia was a full scale military conflict at a time when Economy was experiencing the so called Peace Divident after collapse of SU.

Right now US nor Europe dont have the economy for any war they are absolutely bankrupt.

And Russia is not a bankrupt low military power of 90's ....... things have changed.

NATO block has the annual defence spending nearly $1 trillion.  Waging a regional war without occupation can be paid for in the operations budget. Ukraine is not some nothing nation like Georgia, EU would respond requiring Obama to do something.  If we send troops we better think carefully or it could cost dearly.  

its what i tried to explain to people that NATO is not depleted, "we" just stored most of our hardware in Mobilization complexes with the budget cuts or sold them between NATO partner military's. the weapons are still present and personnel are always able to be called upon even if they left service. and yes, while EU economy matters are crap that operation budget still exists.

i respect your comment to clarify that point, even if some people never will be convinced that Nato is not a toothless organisation yet.

personally i prefer this thing does not end up in an armed conflict. it will end with just a lot of dead guys on both sides because some politicians are playing a dirty game and lack the ability to admit they where wrong. im not sure how far the West will press this down the line to get what they want. i fully understand that Russia will defend its people in eastern Ukraine and it has to draw a line in the sand somewhere.

Of course it isn't toothless.  But when majority of the budget is funding personnel and or maintaining bases, it really puts into perspective the budget.  As well, when was the last time NATO fought a conflict that was actually deemed worthy of a conflict against a nation actually capable of defending and projecting power?  Afghanistan is recent conflict (against a nation that didn't even have an armed forces pretty much) and is showing its lack of capabilities, especially after we leave.  Last one before that was Yugoslavia, and we all know how the bombardment of Sarajevo went....

TR1 wrote:Wow, those Mi-24s flying from Sevastopol are actually new Mi-35s.

Some guy on Mp.net took a couple of frames from the video, it is clearly the new birds.

Yeah, one guy pointed that out to me when I questioned if they were really Russian troops (because you know how these people are. You apparently need government approval before you can actually count something as legit if it comes to NATO). So it really does make it obvious.