Project 21631: Buyan-M missile ship

Congrats to the Caspian Flotilla.

TheArmenian wrote:

It was really nice seeing them in action. It took everyone by surprise!

I hope Russian NAVY will order 9 more Buyan-M ships, additional 3 for Caspian fleet and 6 for Baltic fleet, which also need ships, that could carry Kalibr cruise missiles. They will bring more fear to Baltic than Steregushy corvettes.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:

It was really nice seeing them in action. It took everyone by surprise!

Yeeeaahhh.... look at them go.

I just hope they catch the CIA handlers napping and blow them to ragged shreds along with those filthy takfiri bastards....

I think Zelenodolsk will switch to 22160 after they complete the current order. And then there is also 22800. So I think there will 9 Buyan-M and that's it.

I think 22160 is a different class of patrol ship. Buyan-M is an excellent replacement for Nanushka type of missile corvettes. They should at least order 3 more for Caspian sea. 22800 seems to be more sea worthy ship, so better suited for Northern and Pacific fleet. Baltic fleet could use both. Point is, that Buyan-M is well tested and could be available sooner than totally new class 22800 and Baltic fleet also need ships with Caliber missiles and their Steregushy corvettes don't have them. I think Russian NAVY could easily buy 18 of both classes, there is enough room for them and enough ships to replace.

medo wrote:I hope Russian NAVY will order 9 more Buyan-M ships, additional 3 for Caspian fleet and 6 for Baltic fleet, which also need ships, that could carry Kalibr cruise missiles. They will bring more fear to Baltic than Steregushy corvettes.

Well, the 21631 has no SAMs and no ASW capability, so they are really limited ships. Useful for sure, but can't really replace the 20380. To bad there won't be more 20385s...

They cancelled the 85 specifically for the engines but chances are same equipment for the 80 using the Russian engines.

Buyan M has indeed very limited sam capability. Hopefully there will be pantsir model or a different sam system more advanced than Igla launchers.

Cucumber Khan wrote:

medo wrote:I hope Russian NAVY will order 9 more Buyan-M ships, additional 3 for Caspian fleet and 6 for Baltic fleet, which also need ships, that could carry Kalibr cruise missiles. They will bring more fear to Baltic than Steregushy corvettes.

Well, the 21631 has no SAMs and no ASW capability, so they are really limited ships. Useful for sure, but can't really replace the 20380. To bad there won't be more 20385s...

Who say Buyan-M will replace Steregushy corvettes? They are different ships for different tasks. Buyan-M is sea-river class with powerful cruise missiles. Steregushy corvettes will deal with ships and subs, while Buyans will more support ground operation and provide coast defense with long range anti-ship missiles.

sepheronx wrote:They cancelled the 85 specifically for the engines but chances are same equipment for the 80 using the Russian engines.

Buyan M has indeed very limited sam capability. Hopefully there will be pantsir model or a different sam system more advanced than Igla launchers.

I thought they were made to operate under land based SAM umbrella?

chicken wrote:

sepheronx wrote:They cancelled the 85 specifically for the engines but chances are same equipment for the 80 using the Russian engines.

Buyan M has indeed very limited sam capability. Hopefully there will be pantsir model or a different sam system more advanced than Igla launchers.

I thought they were made to operate under land based SAM umbrella?

Dunno. All I know is that they have Gibka onboard. I think if they were able to have something that could use the 57E6 missiles like Naval Pantsir would be ideal too. Would give it a very effective air defense capabilities.

With Pantsir-SM it is not just an excellent point defence system like TOR, it would also have decent reach to 40-45km or so which is better than early models of SA-N-7 on Sovremmeny class destroyers...

sepheronx wrote:They cancelled the 85 specifically for the engines but chances are same equipment for the 80 using the Russian engines.

Buyan M has indeed very limited sam capability. Hopefully there will be pantsir model or a different sam system more advanced than Igla launchers.

Both 85s will have Russian engines. The canceling of further ships was due to the excessive cost of this variant, it ended up costing almost as a Gorshkov frigate.

The Buyans used MTU German diesels. But they are being substituted by Kolomna built ones.

The only classes of vessels affected by politics are the ones on the Gorshkov and Grigorovich class frigates.

TheArmenian wrote:

sepheronx wrote:They cancelled the 85 specifically for the engines but chances are same equipment for the 80 using the Russian engines.

Buyan M has indeed very limited sam capability. Hopefully there will be pantsir model or a different sam system more advanced than Igla launchers.

Both 85s will have Russian engines. The canceling of further ships was due to the excessive cost of this variant, it ended up costing almost as a Gorshkov frigate.

The Buyans used MTU German diesels. But they are being substituted by Kolomna built ones.

The only classes of vessels affected by politics are the ones on the Gorshkov and Grigorovich class frigates.

But I heard that they were replacing them with Russian engines as there is already various prototypes of the same type of ship based diesel electric engines, but of various sizes and capabilities.

That said, the 22800 project ship will probably be replacement for various types of ships for rough seas. Since Buyan-M proved itself recently, I imagine there will be a further demand for such a ship and the 22800 is probably just that - an ocean based Buyan-M. Hopefully with a more powerful air defense system though.

sepheronx wrote:

TheArmenian wrote:

sepheronx wrote:They cancelled the 85 specifically for the engines but chances are same equipment for the 80 using the Russian engines.

Buyan M has indeed very limited sam capability. Hopefully there will be pantsir model or a different sam system more advanced than Igla launchers.

Both 85s will have Russian engines. The canceling of further ships was due to the excessive cost of this variant, it ended up costing almost as a Gorshkov frigate.

The Buyans used MTU German diesels. But they are being substituted by Kolomna built ones.

The only classes of vessels affected by politics are the ones on the Gorshkov and Grigorovich class frigates.

But I heard that they were replacing them with Russian engines as there is already various prototypes of the same type of ship based diesel electric engines, but of various sizes and capabilities.

That said, the 22800 project ship will probably be replacement for various types of ships for rough seas.  Since Buyan-M proved itself recently, I imagine there will be a further demand for such a ship and the 22800 is probably just that - an ocean based Buyan-M.  Hopefully with a more powerful air defense system though.

Buyan-M is sea-river class of ship and also very suitable for Baltic fleet, because it could well operate in Neva river and its delta as well as at Baltic coast. I wouldn't underestimate Buyan's air defense at all. It have quite powerful guns with its 100 mm gun and Duet 30 mm twin Gatling. Two Gibka complexes with Igla-S or Verba missiles are also quite capable and they all have all weather day/night capabilities. For the ship of its class, Buyan-M have quite powerful air defense coupled with very strong ESM equipment.

Don't be fooled by the Gibka system carrying only MANPADS... with proper early warning and electro optics for aiming they would be very effective against subsonic anti ship missiles

sepheronx wrote:

chicken wrote:

sepheronx wrote:They cancelled the 85 specifically for the engines but chances are same equipment for the 80 using the Russian engines.

Buyan M has indeed very limited sam capability. Hopefully there will be pantsir model or a different sam system more advanced than Igla launchers.

I thought they were made to operate under land based SAM umbrella?

Dunno.  All I know is that they have Gibka onboard.  I think if they were able to have something that could use the 57E6 missiles like Naval Pantsir would be ideal too.  Would give it a very effective air defense capabilities.

If I recall, somebody said it only has point defense to guard itself against possible missile attacks. Other defenses are provided by either land based SAM umbrellas or static sub defense/friendly subs. It's more of a missile barge than a corvette. With a gun.

Is the Caspian Sea Fleet a Game-Changer?

Russia is far ahead of the US, not only in faster but more effective implementation of the ‘distributed lethality’ concept turning a group of small vessels into powerful weapons, an American website reported.

Russian Kalibr-NK cruise missile system' launch from the Caspian Flotilla of the Russian Navy on October 7 has been ignored by many military analysts, but in fact the opportunity to conduct high-accuracy strikes at a distance with small, inexpensive and relatively simple vessels is crucial, the American portal Defense News says.

Prior to that, Russian ships in the Caspian Sea were considered only as a local force, but now it has become clear that Kalibr high-precision cruise missile systems, which are similar to the US Tomahawk, can be also launched from small craft, such as Buyan-M missile corvettes. It is obvious that naval experts underestimated the growing hitting power of small vessels, the Defense News quoted a joint military operations professor at the US Naval War College Milan Vego as saying. ( Seriously subsonic Tomahawk and Supersonic Kalibr are similar? )

Some targets in Syria could be hit by other means so, according to US officials, as quoted by Defense news, the launching of Kalibr-class cruise missiles was intended to make it clear to the world that Russia has this technology and that the country can deploy it.

According to Washington-based naval expert at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments Brian Clark, Kalibr missiles turned Buyan-M into a ship of ‘distributed lethality'. This approach allows installing rockets on several small vessels, dispersing them in a way to be less visible, and combining them to obtain the desired impact force, explains Clark. The United States sought to implement this concept, says the expert, but Russia has shown that it has already achieved.

The analyst points out that small Russian missile ships with a displacement of 900 tons are harder to detect than the American coastal zone warships (LCS — Littoral Combat Ship) with a displacement of 4,000 tons. According to Clark, Buyan-M corvettes can be bought in large quantities, and, compared to the LCS, "surface-to-surface" missiles can be also deployed on them, so to have even more effectiveness than the one sought by the United States. The US is developing an enhanced version of the LCS, but it is unlikely it will be as good as Kalibr cruise missiles, says Clark. According to him, the US Navy should be ashamed they let it happen. pissed much?

Russian Navy Expects 10 Buyan-M Warships by End of 2019 – Deputy Commander

Buyan-M class missile corvettes armed with Kalibr cruise missiles will join the Russian Navy by the end of 2019

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Ten Buyan-M class missile corvettes armed with Kalibr cruise missiles will join the Russian Navy by the end of 2019, Navy Deputy Commander Rear Adm. Viktor Bursuk said Friday.

The Navy previously said that it planned to receive six such warships.

"By the end of 2019, the entire series of these ships will be built, which is about 10," Bursuk said, speaking on the Rossiya-24 television channel.

Buyan-M is a 950-ton displacement ship that is 74 meters (243 feet) long with a top speed of 45 kph (28 mph). Among other armament elements, the vessel has eight vertical launch tubes holding 3K14 Kalibr or older missiles models. The ship can carry the Kalibr missiles that were used by Russia against Islamic State militants earlier this month.

Russia is currently conducting a $325-billion rearmament program to modernize 70-percent of its military by 2020.

Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151023/1028999458/Russian-Navy-Warships.html#ixzz3pPYEExSn

Serpuhov and Zeleni Dol will be based in Sevastopol.

Finally the 2 ships arrive at their permanent base in BSF.

http://tass.ru/en/defense/837465