The Situation in the Ukraine. #5

medo wrote:Any news or info about mobilization in Lugansk and Donetsk republics or they still depend on volunteers only? They need to mobilize larger number of reservists and form units outside towns for attacks on Ukrainian troops anywhere in DNR and LNR. They have to start attacking Ukrainian convoys to inflict to them as much losses as possible.

macedonian wrote:

medo wrote:Any news or info about mobilization in Lugansk and Donetsk republics or they still depend on volunteers only? They need to mobilize larger number of reservists and form units outside towns for attacks on Ukrainian troops anywhere in DNR and LNR. They have to start attacking Ukrainian convoys to inflict to them as much losses as possible.

No offense Medo, but would you pick up a stone and try to attack a tank with it?! Or aim your Kalashnikov/Dragunov trying to hit an incoming Flanker?
These people aren't agreeing with the NazKiev regime, but it doesn't mean that they're stupid enough to fight an army with their bare hands.

medo wrote:And how volunteers get weapons? They capture it. LNR and DNR need army structure. With mobilization they could train larger number of soldiers and with a flow of weapons they will armed them. With capturing tanks, they need tank reservists to operate them. For artillery they need artillery reservists, they need PVO reservists, logistic reservists, engineering reservists, anti-tank teams, etc. Also they need more troops for rotations for longer time fightings. They have to mobilize reservist and train them and not loosing time.

According to Acting Minister of Defense of Ukraine, in the last few days during the fighting in the region of Lugansk airport killed over 120 Ukrainian soldiers Natsgvardii.

Also, Bolotov in his recent interview said the investigators have not found traces of human bodies at Il-76 crash site.
He implied the plane was mostly empty, and official Kiev used this occasion to cover up losses at airport. Koval's acknowledgement of high losses supports this theory.

macedonian wrote:

medo wrote:And how volunteers get weapons? They capture it. LNR and DNR need army structure. With mobilization they could train larger number of soldiers and with a flow of weapons they will armed them. With capturing tanks, they need tank reservists to operate them. For artillery they need artillery reservists, they need PVO reservists, logistic reservists, engineering reservists, anti-tank teams, etc. Also they need more troops for rotations for longer time fightings. They have to mobilize reservist and train them and not loosing time.

You can't capture all the weapons you need to fight a war. Especially when fighting against a significantly larger, and better equipped enemy force. The Seps are a guerrilla force not a regular army at this point. Think Yugoslav Partisans. They were a serious fighting force, but only when they've started receiving weapons by the Brits and the Russians. I know because my Grandfather was one of them, and I've heard the stories... Essentially - you can't win a war against an army unless you have a state sponsoring you. That's why I'm mad that they don't get enough weapons.
Same thing with mobilization - you can't mobilize people that don't want to fight, they HAVE to be sympathetic to 'The Cause' and volunteer. Otherwise you quickly lose popular support, and from liberator - you start to be the oppressor. And more people tend to volunteer when they see their side winning. Not too many people want to die and be remembered as 'Heroes', the majority would like to fight for a better life for them and their families. Same analogy with the Yugoslav Partisans, they had much less volunteers in 1941(don't you remember "Prvoborec" medals), but steadily the numbers increased, and by 1944 they were a serious ARMY.

Обращение Павла Губарева к России и соотечественникам

Братья и сестры! Обращаюсь к вам от имени Народного ополчения Донбасса!

Сегодня здесь на Донбассе – в Славянске и Краматорске, в Донецке и Луганске, в городах и поселениях Новороссии – решается судьба Русского Мира. Решается судьба нашей общей Родины - Большой России. Сегодня здесь мы воюем не только за Донецкую и Луганские народные республики – мы воюем за русскую культуру, за русский язык, за русскую историю, за саму сущность России!

Мы твердо убеждены, что мы стоим не только за свои города, но и за города России: за Москву, за Ростов-на-Дону, за Волгоград, за Хабаровск, за Владивосток. Если мы сегодня сдадим наши позиции – завтра такое же горе может прийти в семьи наших российских собратьев. Помимо меня это понимание разделяют многие люди не только здесь и не только в России, но и в других странах мира. С самых разных уголков планеты к нам едут добровольцы, чтобы влиться в ряды нашего ополчения.

Нам обещали, что нас сотрут с лица земли до инаугурации нового президента Украины. Нам это обещают вот уже два последних месяца. Но мы до сих пор стоим и не сдаемся. Нас утюжат авиацией и артиллерией, жгут минометами и «градом». Но мы боремся, мы сражаемся и воюем до последнего, потому что мы убеждены, что наша борьба – это борьба за Русский Мир перед лицом агрессии Запада против русской цивилизации.

Мы прекрасно пониманием, что Запад сейчас всеми силами пытается втравить Россию в войну с Украиной, чтобы списать на нее все свои внешнеполитические просчеты и обелить все свои коварные планы и замыслы. Вместе с тем, мы вынуждены признаться, что без помощи России нас ждут большие потери среди наших ополченцев и гражданского населения. Вскоре счет может пойти на тысячи людских жизней. Наши силы на исходе. Украинская карательная армия сбрасывает на наши головы тонны свинца и металла, тонны огня и снарядов. В результате гибнут мирные безоружные люди: старики, женщины и дети. Эти твари – нацистские уроды – не остановится не перед чем, чтобы выполнить приказы своих хозяев – лидеров стран Европы и США.

Мы видим, что мировое сообщество не желает бороться за жизни мирных жителей Донбасса, предпочитая отмалчиваться и стоять в стороне. Поэтому для нас единственным спасением является помощь России. Но мы знаем, что некоторые кремлёвские помощники и влиятельные круги отговаривают Президента России от принятия решения о поддержки нас в нашей борьбе. Как вчера обозначил в своем обращении министр обороны Донецкой Народной Республики Игорь Иванович Стрелков: «..если военной помощи не будет - военное поражение ДНР и ЛНР неизбежно. ..Противник отрежет нас от границы и методично удушит, попутно "зачистив" территорию и одномоментно выбросив в РФ миллион-два полностью обездоленных и озлобленных беженцев. К Путину со скорбными лицами придут группой "благодарные олигархи", вытолкнут вперед "великого комбинатора" Суркова, и тот все объяснит тихим вкрадчивым голосом: "Мы сделали все, что могли, но эти... никуда не годные донецкие бандиты сами все провалили, и мы ничем не можем им помочь, кроме как рискуя ядерной войной... Они сами-себя наказали... Не стоит рисковать... Надо потерпеть... Мы потом все исправим... С Порошенко можно договориться... Тактическое отступление... Воевать мы не готовы... Крым все равно отвоевали... и т.д., и т.п.»

Тем не менее, от своего имени, хотел бы выразить уверенность, что Владимир Владимирович Путин примет свое суверенное решение, которое спасёт много жизней. Мы верим, что народный лидер России примет необходимые меры по защите своих соотечественников.

Мы надеемся на силу Россию! Мы верим в ее Президента! Мы ждём дня нашей общей победы!

Vann7 wrote:one of the photo show snow.. and we are in summer

anyway.. did they say how they captured the base? they killed the soldiers?> or they defected?

arpakola wrote:

Vann7 wrote:one of the photo show snow.. and we are in summer

anyway.. did they say how they captured the base? they killed the soldiers?> or they defected?

probably is a base of abandand equipment .. but seems some of them are capable to operate

Vann7 wrote:

arpakola wrote:

Vann7 wrote:one of the photo show snow.. and we are in summer

anyway.. did they say how they captured the base? they killed the soldiers?> or they defected?

probably is a base of abandand equipment .. but seems some of them are capable to operate

My bet is that even if they can't move.. they can fire and be used as a canon. and build a mini fortress around the tank.  

 Paul's Conversion Gubareva to Russia and compatriots
Brothers and sisters! I appeal to you on behalf of the National militia of Donbass!

Today here on the Donbass - in Slavyansk and Kramatorsk, Donetsk and Luhansk, in cities and settlements of the new Russia - the fate of the Russian World. The fate of our common Motherland - of the Great Russia. Here today we are fighting not only for Donetsk and Lugansk national Republic - we are fighting for the Russian culture, Russian language, Russian history, the very essence of Russia!

We firmly believe that we are not only for our city, but also for the cities of Russia: Moscow, Rostov-on-don, Volgograd, Khabarovsk, Vladivostok. If we surrender our position tomorrow the same grief can come in families of our Russian counterparts. In addition me this understanding is shared by many people, not only here, and not only in Russia but also in other countries of the world. From different parts of the world are coming to us volunteers to join the ranks of our militia.

We were promised that we will wipe from the face of the earth before the inauguration of the new President of Ukraine. The promise now for the last two months. But we still stand and not give up. Us iron aviation and artillery, harness mortars and "hail". But we fight, we fight and fight to the last, because we are convinced that our struggle is a struggle for the Russian World in the face of aggression of the West against the Russian civilization.

We fully understand that the West is now trying to involve Russia in the war with Ukraine to decommission it all its foreign-policy miscalculations and whitewash all their insidious plans and ideas. However, we have to admit that without the help of Russia, we expect big losses among our militia and civilians. Soon the account can go for thousands of human lives. Our strength is running out. Ukrainian punitive army dumping on our heads tons of lead and metal, tons of fire and shells. The result die peaceful unarmed people: the elderly, women and children. These creatures - Nazi freaks - don't stop not before than to carry out the orders of their masters - the leaders of the European countries and the USA.

We see that the world community does not want to fight for the lives of civilians of Donbass, preferring to remain silent and to stand aside. So for us the only salvation is to help Russia. But we know that some Kremlin aides and influential circles talk of the President of Russia from deciding support us in our struggle. As yesterday outlined in his address, the Minister of defense of the Donetsk national Republic Igor Strelkov: "..if military assistance will not be a military defeat DND and LNR inevitable. ..Opponent will cut us from the border and methodically will suffocate, along the way of "cleaning" the territory and simultaneously throwing in the Russian Federation a million-two fully disadvantaged and angry refugees. To Putin with sad faces will come by the group "the grateful oligarchs", pushed forward the great schemer" Surkov, who will explain everything quiet ingratiating voice: "We did everything we could, but these... no good Donetsk bandits themselves has failed, and we are not able to help them, but at the risk of nuclear war... They themselves punished... Not worth the risk... Need to be patient... We then straighten... With Poroshenko is possible to agree... a Tactical retreat... to Fight we're not ready... the Crimea still won... etc, etc"

However, on its own behalf, I would like to Express confidence that Vladimir Putin will take their sovereign decision that will save many lives. We believe that the national leader of Russia will take the necessary measures for the protection of their compatriots.

We hope to force Russia! We believe its President! We await the day of our common victory!

 

Strelkov wrote:In the opinion of the Commander in Chief of the DPR (“Donetsk People’s Republic”) Militia, the announced ceasefire is merely a ploy to allow [Ukraine] to regroup its forces.

The news of a ceasefire immediately spread across Slavyansk. Where there is electricity, people learned about it through television, where there is none – with the help of radios that still catch the signal of the Kramatorsk radio station. The first thing that we asked [Strelkov] about:

Question: Will any of the militia fighters take advantage of the amnesty and leave the city using the announced corridor?

Igor [Strelkov] noted that simply leaving their positions is out of the question for the militia:

Strelkov: If anyone wants to leave the militia for one reason or another, he must first take part in the engineering-building works. This is [a requirement] that is independent of Poroshenko or any [purported] ceasefires.

However, the ceasefire itself has not been felt by any of the militia fighters or the civilians of Slavyansk and Kramatorsk. According to Strelkov, he found out about the peace initiatives at 7:00 pm, when he received a call and was told about the unilateral ceasefire by the Ukrainian side:

I smiled skeptically, told us Igor [Strelkov]. I thought to myself that we’ll find out at 23:00 whether this ceasefire is real or not. For many days now, at this time (when in Moscow it’s midnight), the enemy lobs its ammunition at us or at Semyonovka or Kramatorsk. Using two or three [artillery] batteries. I was wrong. The artillery strikes began at 21:30. Two [artillery] batteries, at four guns each, hit Kramatorsk, which is when the ceasefire ended. In the morning, a Su ground attack fighter bombed Kramatorsk, it missed, but that changes nothing. For me, such “ceasefires” are [imaginary]. Forgive my expression, but I could spit at such ceasefires.

Having been entirely disappointed by the peace inititiative of the Ukrainian side, the militia attacked the enemy early in the morning:

Strelkov: The checkpoint at Krasniy Liman was hit at close range with AGS (automatic machine grenade launcher). We inflicted serious losses to enemy manpower at BZS (refuelling station). Using RPO-A Shmel (reactive or rocket-assisted portable flamethrower), our intelligence-gathering group conducted a strike against their rest and and encampment positions, hitting the windows precisely.

Question: Supposing, for a moment, that they will, after, cease fire and establish some sort of corridors … Would anyone want to leave?

Strelkov: Yesterday alone, we received approximately 40 volunteers. Today, I am expecting around 50. To date, I have witnessed only an inflow of [volunteers] to our region. People join the ranks of the militia, receive weapons and take their places at our combat positions. Any outflow is insignificant. Of course, we do get craven people, there are also deserters. There are those, who, having come under fire, become terribly afraid and announce their desire to [leave]. As in any army, their share is about 10%. I think that there will be no one willing to take Poroshenko’s offer either in the Slavyansk garrison or the in the garrisons of the neighbouring cities.

According to Strelkov, his initiative shows that Poroshenko is trying to keep a good face while playing foul. Even now, Ukranian force, in large columns, are moving from Berdyansk to Mariupol and, from there, to the North – North-East. Their intention is to assume starting positions for an offensive along the border.

According to [Strelkov], they are planning to cut off the Lugansk and Donetsk oblasts from their natural food and fuel supply channels – channels, which theoretically, could be used for equipment and weaponry.

Strelkov: In the end, we are still hoping that Russia will help us sooner or later. But, for now, the Ukrainian side will conclude concentrating their forces in the course of the next twenty-four hours, will conduct new air and artillery strikes, and will commence an offence along the border in both direction – from the North and from the South. No other conclusion is possible, unless, of course, Vladimir Vladimirovich personally intervenes in this situation and takes some sort of measures to completely undermine the plans concocted by the Kiev occupation powers.