The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

Mike E wrote:
Even though I support it, arming the rebels did admittedly escalate the crisis at least a little. They sent troops into Crimea (Which is perfectly legal under the Partition Treaty on the State and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet signed May 28, 1997.) which led to Kiev aggression and (eventually) U.S. sanctions.

Sending arms to rebels did not escalate the situation in any way. You have to understand that Ukropy fascists are in full support of Washington and are trying to lure Russia to intervene in Ukraine for the genocide on civilians. Ukropy are ordered to target civilians to provocate russia. They don't even try to target the rebels as the main target, because that is counter productive to USA when this conflict ends fast, they need this ukropy vs russia war desperatley.

Also people here tend to fabricate the percption that all weapons in the hands of rebels are from russia which is far away from the truth. People tend to believe and propagate the lie that Ukrainian rebels have no weapons from siezed ukrainian army bases, like the several thousands soldiers who have defected have not had any weapons or tanks,apcs,ifvs,howitzers or whatever in their bases. Like all the defectors were riding on horses with shashkas, no weapons, no tanks nothing everything comes from evil mother russia.

People should start using their brains.

Like I said, Russia really never directly escalated the situation. However, their actions cause tension between other parties thereby escalating the situation. So, Russia doesn't deserve directed blame, but they could of helped de-escalate Ukraine.

Mike E wrote:Like I said, Russia really never directly escalated the situation. However, their actions cause tension between other parties thereby escalating the situation. So, Russia doesn't deserve directed blame, but they could of helped de-escalate Ukraine.

I think you still don't understand the entire situation.

Nothing russia did so far changed anything in anyway. No more tensions can be created from russian side when US fascists of kiew are ordered to create tensions and provoce russia by any means necessary.

It's like saying, the hostage creates tensions when looking pale and scared into the criminals gun.

Werewolf wrote:

Mike E wrote:
Even though I support it, arming the rebels did admittedly escalate the crisis at least a little. They sent troops into Crimea (Which is perfectly legal under the Partition Treaty on the State and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet signed May 28, 1997.) which led to Kiev aggression and (eventually) U.S. sanctions.

Sending arms to rebels did not escalate the situation in any way. You have to understand that Ukropy fascists are in full support of Washington and are trying to lure Russia to intervene in Ukraine for the genocide on civilians. Ukropy are ordered to target civilians to provocate russia. They don't even try to target the rebels as the main target, because that is counter productive to USA when this conflict ends fast, they need this ukropy vs russia war desperatley.

Also people here tend to fabricate the percption that all weapons in the hands of rebels are from russia which is far away from the truth. People tend to believe and propagate the lie that Ukrainian rebels have no weapons from siezed ukrainian army bases, like the several thousands soldiers who have defected have not had any weapons or tanks,apcs,ifvs,howitzers or whatever in their bases. Like all the defectors were riding on horses with shashkas, no weapons, no tanks nothing everything comes from evil mother russia.

People should start using their brains.

1; I agree, but it does have unexpected consequences. By sending weapons, the West' starts a propaganda campaign against Russia. As a result, tensions are tighter between the West' and Russia, thereby escalating situation in Ukraine. 

2; That is true, however, I never once said that all of their weapons were supplied by Russia. 

3; I already do. It's not like I listen to the Western propaganda. Saying Russia has had no role of doing anything in Ukraine (thereby possibly causing escalation) is ludicrous.

I don't want to sound like TR1 (no offense), but I do sincerely believe that Russia should have done more to keep Ukraine stabile. That being said, keeping a country stabile while the West' controls it is no easy task!

Mike E wrote:I don't want to sound like TR1 (no offense), but I do sincerely believe that Russia should have done more to keep Ukraine stabile. That being said, keeping a country stabile while the West' controls it is no easy task!

Russia adviced to keep ukraine stable, but yanukovich the retard did not use police force when it was absolutley necessary. Unarmed policemen were slaughtered and every fucking country would use weapons against terrorists with molotov cocktails, grenades, pistols, shotguns and sniper rifles. Even got damn black ops of foreign countries like the disgusting IDF forces were on maidan side by side with fascists, that tells you alot what Jews actually want!

Russia did everything to calm down the shit, it was the west that fueled the fire into an inferno.

Hey "Ukrainian" lovers, want a good wallpaper?  
https://pp.vk.me/c620618/v620618862/10e67/YIrWWSuoMwQ.jpg

How come they are allowed to post on VK, doesn't it undermine the seps?

I'm willing to agree, Russia has tried to keep Ukraine stabile. They could have done more, heck, even admitting that they have sent weapons into Ukraine would help. It would (at the very least) make Russia look more trustworthy. Maybe you don't agree with me, but that is what I think. (This is off-topic, but buy BDRBF.)

ukranians should have done more to stabilise THEIR country !!!

but instead they become silent and went on their own bussines , sold their country to oligarchs and usa puppets , flushed multi-billion cheap gas package down the toilet , so theyll suffer the consequences and very soon in the winter especially...

Mike E wrote:Like I said, Russia really never directly escalated the situation. However, their actions cause tension between other parties thereby escalating the situation. So, Russia doesn't deserve directed blame, but they could of helped de-escalate Ukraine.

You need to see it this way..
The escalation could not be worse that the coup of nazis made by the white house. Since they financed it ,organized it and even trained them ,to overthrow yakunovych.  Why it could not be worse? Because the intentions of the coup sponsored by the white house is to use Ukraine as a battlefield to Fight Russia to the last ukrainian blood. So more escalation is not possible.. because the plan from the west is not peace but a proxy war with Russia. Is there is peace in Ukraine ,US cannot justify sanctions on Russia.   

So is an Irony ,that actually in real practice..What Russia did was De-escalate a little the situation by taking Crimea. Because now ,no longer NATO can use Crimea as a naval base. And Russia can easily blockade the entry of Odessa too for NATO if they want. THis means that NATO can no longer use Crimea to launch a war on Russia by proxy.. aside that it will be a major humiliation for Russia world image to have NATO bases in Crimea. That will be too much to accept.  It will be the same as lets say as North Korea taking control of Long island. and USA allowing it. In essence facilitating the conditions for North korea to attack you with a nuke in case a major tensions arise .  

For a real descalation of Ukraine conflict.. US puppets that the west control and that support Nazis, needs to be kicked from kiev. That is a government that is open to EU and Russia. and that protect the rights minorities and does not support nazism. The best way for descalation and peace is that Ukraine economy collapse.. and no longer they continue with its war and negotiate with Russia for peace. So this is why Russia needs to support the Rebels and try to collapse Ukraine economy as fast as possible. But also to help civilians in eastern ukraine to defend .

Mike E wrote:I don't want to sound like TR1 (no offense), but I do sincerely believe that Russia should have done more to keep Ukraine stabile. That being said, keeping a country stabile while the West' controls it is no easy task!

Yeah, you wouldn't want to sound like you are capable of critical thinking !

This thread is hilarious. No, it really is.

How dare ANYONE suggest Russia did ANYTHING wrong in Ukraine! That basically has been the gist of the last two pages.

At this point I find it humiliating personally to even be associated with such a laughable discussion thread, and by extension, forum.

Farewell.

TR1 wrote:

Mike E wrote:I don't want to sound like TR1 (no offense), but I do sincerely believe that Russia should have done more to keep Ukraine stabile. That being said, keeping a country stabile while the West' controls it is no easy task!

Yeah, you wouldn't want to sound like you are capable of critical thinking !

This thread is hilarious. No, it really is.

How dare ANYONE suggest Russia did ANYTHING wrong in Ukraine! That basically has been the gist of the last two pages.

At this point I find it humiliating personally to even be associated with such a laughable discussion thread, and by extension, forum.

Farewell.

And again a 14 year old rant instead of giving a single argument, no just bullshit of russophobia.
You have not given a single argument over several weeks only transformed from over critical to absurd russophobic rants with insults but not a single argument, not a single one.
Now go back to the other russophobes on mp net where your crap is welcomed like a meal in africa.

TR1 wrote:

Mike E wrote:I don't want to sound like TR1 (no offense), but I do sincerely believe that Russia should have done more to keep Ukraine stabile. That being said, keeping a country stabile while the West' controls it is no easy task!

Yeah, you wouldn't want to sound like you are capable of critical thinking !

This thread is hilarious. No, it really is.

How dare ANYONE suggest Russia did ANYTHING wrong in Ukraine! That basically has been the gist of the last two pages.

At this point I find it humiliating personally to even be associated with such a laughable discussion thread, and by extension, forum.

Farewell.

How can anyone take you seriously.. when you say US have nothing to do with the conflict in Ukraine
is the question.    I never seen you to complain about anything US or Kiev does. All your rant is about
how "wrong" is Russian actions in Ukraine , when they have only been defending Civilians ,and pushing for solving thing by negotiations and not war. they haven't recognized at all the Novorossiya republic. They took Crimea also of course ,but that was National security thing. We have yet to see complaining about US coup in kiev and the burning of civilians alive. IF your lovely much better USA will have never financed a revolution in Kiev , None of the civil war today in ukraine will have happened.and will not be news at all.

TR1 wrote:

Mike E wrote:I don't want to sound like TR1 (no offense), but I do sincerely believe that Russia should have done more to keep Ukraine stabile. That being said, keeping a country stabile while the West' controls it is no easy task!

Yeah, you wouldn't want to sound like you are capable of critical thinking !

This thread is hilarious. No, it really is.

How dare ANYONE suggest Russia did ANYTHING wrong in Ukraine! That basically has been the gist of the last two pages.

At this point I find it humiliating personally to even be associated with such a laughable discussion thread, and by extension, forum.

Farewell.

I hope you realize that I said "no offence", and that I was joking...

If you didn't know, I suggested that.

navyfield wrote:ukranians should have done more to stabilise THEIR country !!!

but instead they become silent and went on their own bussines , sold their country to oligarchs and usa puppets , flushed multi-billion cheap gas package down the toilet , so theyll suffer the consequences and very soon in the winter especially...

A good resume. If they would have had a spine and stood against the american machinations and not be just coward sheep, they would do well now, just the military industry wise, they had FIFTEEN billions in contracts with Russia, and not only that but the russians said they would have got 10% of the orders for the rearmament plans. Baring in mind that program goes into 600 billion by 2020 or something like that, even if that money is not all for procurement, it still means several TENS of billions in orders from Ukraine, a huge sum. I'm sure the economic benefits would have been of similar scale. As they are now, they have become a completely failed state, a laughing stock.

As it it, the only aim of those american bastards and their cronies in creating unrest and masterminding this coup, through the fascist scum and traitors and country sellers now in charge, is to transform it into a vassal state to use against Russia and likely allied countries. Their ultimate objective is to transform Russia into a powerless vassal state, to exploit and use against China. (which i'm sure TR1 would love...) Anyone claiming anything else is brainwashed and broken from reality or one of "them".

We will see if Russia's course of action it took so far (a relatively limited support for the novorussians as opposed to directly intervening) regarding this ukrainian coup was indicated or not. I for one very much hope the american hegemonic plans will be smashed in the end, along with their neo-empire. This is all they deserve. F*** the US.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:
If trolls like TR1 and TheGeorgian just submit blank post from now on, the quality of the forum would recover. If blank post aren't allowed, then they can type in "1234......".

The audacity of these trolls, of course, is not surprising but is always very interesting though.

I merely pointed out and suggested number of obvious things that are/might be going on, or are factualy going on, that most of you actualy agree on, like arming of rebels, their armament, some details regarding current situation etc. Trying to correct people on some desinformation regarding off-topic comments. The only persons trolling here and staining this thread with unnecessary filth are people like you who just can't resist trying to sting people with such idiotic nonsense. I've already explained what I think of such persons. Wasn't clear enough .... ?

Stop this retarded behaviour. I am neither getting a clear picture over the current situation from Ukrainian side, Russian side, Georgian side, Polish side etc. Everyone is giving different information and none of those are not one-sided, biased or whatever so I am trying to sort them out alittle. So without further stinging and provoking, please provide me, us with some valid information about what is going on right now. May the souls of the airliner incident rest in peace. But I want more military detail of the crisis. Like how's the situation of rebels fortifying themselves in Donetsk. Nobody still gave me an answer if insurgents do or do not have self-propelled howitzers for instance. Please stay on topic.

Some footage of UA troops supposedly closing into Donetsk. If this is true, what the heck are they doing with the MSTA's ? using as MBT's .... ?



at 0:19 doesn't seem to be a BM-21



also this of rebels using ags-17 against a building probably occupied by UA .... ????

@Morpheus Eberhardt

Thanks for your updates..
Just a hint.. if you post maps.. there is an option on image size in the insert image icon above..
that you can use to get your maps completely displayed.  Numbers to try  500x600   and or
you can raise by 100 or lower by 100 until you get it the way you want..  like 600 x 700 .

here is your map in 700  and 600



Aside note Donetsk Governor Guvarev is saying the Ukraine army he estimate have a bit more than 8,000 soldiers.
and that their side have lost 2,000 but with 60% of them being unarmed civilians. So about 1200 civilians killed in the war and 800 novorrosiya armed forces.

This does not include Lugansk numbers i guess..

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140801/191587028/Death-Toll-in-Donbas-Exceeds-10500--Donbas-Peoples-Governor.html

If such numbers are true.. i could see the Ukraine army casualties in the 10,000 to 12,000. and Rebels in the 1300 to 1500.

Vann7 wrote:@Morpheus Eberhardt

Thanks for your updates..
Just a hint.. if you post maps.. there is an option on image size in the insert image icon above..
that you can use to get your maps completely displayed.  Numbers to try  500x600   and or
you can raise by 100 or lower by 100 until you get it the way you want..  like 600 x 700 .

here is your map in 700  and 600

Aside note Donetsk Governor Guvarev is saying the Ukraine army he estimate have a bit more than 8,000 soldiers.
and that their side have lost 2,000 but with 60% of them being unarmed civilians. So about 1200 civilians killed in the war and 800 novorrosiya armed forces.

This does not include Lugansk numbers i guess..

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140801/191587028/Death-Toll-in-Donbas-Exceeds-10500--Donbas-Peoples-Governor.html

If such numbers are true.. i could see the Ukraine army casualties in the 10,000 to 12,000. and Rebels in the 1300 to 1500.

Thanks.

TheGeorgian wrote:So without further stinging and provoking, please provide me, us with some valid information about what is going on right now. May the souls of the airliner incident rest in peace. But I want more military detail of the crisis. Like how's the situation of rebels fortifying themselves in Donetsk. Nobody still gave me an answer if insurgents do or do not have self-propelled howitzers for instance. Please stay on topic.

Pretty much the Rebels have captured almost any weapon the Ukraine army have. I don't know if you missed the capture of a repair center with 200 tanks/armored vehicles a month ago..more or less. They even were reports they captured one Su-25 that had to do its pilot an emergency landing.. but without weapons that plane is pretty much useless unless they remove the cockpit and throw molotov bombs on Ukraine position..    Of course you need a real pilot to operate them..  There was also some unconfirmed reports they capture some time ago a Buk defense system from the ukie army.. but none of that have been confirmed.  However reports of Grad rockets and self propell artillery , there were some of them.. that rebels captured a few of them too. In videos however it can be confirmed  the Rebels have Portable Mortars and manpads in enough numbers.  All of that taken from the ukie army.

By looking at the map situation and their lose of Slavyanks week ago ,it appears Russsia support for rebels is very limited if any. And that rebels have very strong fighters from abroad ie Serbians and kosacks. But so far majority of Rebels are from eastern Ukraine .

Subscribe to this website..  

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com.br

they have very good reports not only from Ukraine conflict but also Middle east.
and when it comes to Ukraine , the reports there says that the Ukraine army had some small territorial but not very important gains in terrain here and there but at the expense of catastrophic human loses and losing a lot of hardware to the rebels.. It appears that they are under big pressure to win the war fast no matter the casualties.
also that kiev army have been pushing to try to take control of the crash site.

here is a summary of July offensive by kiev.. pretty much they have been beaten hard ,even when scoring marginal gains in territory in the north and near the crash site. The Novorossiya forces believe the Ukraine army is nearly out of steam ,and showing first signs of collapse. This could explain why Poroshenko is asking for a new round of forced recruitment .

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com.br/2014/07/the-ignominious-conclusion-of-kiev.html

Stephen Cohen on FOX Radio: Americas failed Policies in Ukraine, right from the beginning

It seems another Bulat tank around Shahtersk.

What an interesting gesture of Ukrainian patriot:

Ukraine’s Grad Rocket Launchers Shell Russia’s Rostov Region – Border Security Service

ROSTOV-ON-DON, August 2 (RIA Novosti) – Nine shells have been fired from Ukraine’s Grad multiple rocket launchers, according to preliminary reports, and exploded on the territory of Tarasovsky District in Russia’s Rostov Region, Vasily Malev, a representative of the Russian Security Service in the Rostov Region told RIA Novosti Saturday.

“Nine craters were detected in the area of the Mityakinskaya village [Rostov Region]. The fragments of shells presumably indicate that they were fired from Grad multiple rocket launchers,” Malev said.

The incident resulted in no casualties.

Since the beginning of the special military operation launched by Kiev to suppress independence supporters in the east of Ukraine, the clashes in the Donetsk and Luhansk Regions neighboring the Russian border have become more frequent.

The Russian-Ukrainian border has been hit multiple times by the Ukrainian artillery and mortar fire. In a more recent incident, one civilian died and two more were injured in the Russian city of Donetsk in the Rostov region bordering eastern Ukraine.

On July 30, Rostov’s regional government reported that since the military operation in southeastern Ukraine started, one person has been killed and nine injured as a result of Ukrainian shelling of the Russian territory.

Moscow condemned the attacks, saying that such provocations may have irreversible consequences.

From where such attack can come? from the troops trapped inside the cauldron in the south?
Grad Rockets range is not very long.. im sure Russia could send special forces undercover to directly crush
the Nazi bastards bombing Russia.. at the orders of the west. Probably they have a captured pro Russian militant forced at gun point to fire the grad rockets at Russia while the neonazi bastards hide in a trench .



A 30mm bullet impact in the arm of the neo-nazi retard will be enough to dismember it and remove the smile
from his pathetic face.