The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

Petro007 wrote:THIS IS NOT A CIVIL WAR but a FOREIGN INVASION of the Ukrainian territory. WE CAN WIN IT. WE just need more support from NATO... more advisors, more training, more equipment. We need Leopard-2s, F-16s anti tank missiles, recon drones. If United States Arny could deploy in Eastern Ukraine, it should.

For 20 years we have been kept in backwardness and stagnation by RU and now Putin huylo wasnts to dismantle our country. How much disgrace is enough???

If it was a foreign invasion, rest assured that the Ukrainian military would be completely annihilated by now

Count your blessings would be my advice

For 20 years we have been kept in backwardness and stagnation by RU and now Putin huylo wasnts to dismantle our country. How much disgrace is enough???

No, you're the most unsuccessful country in Europe, on the route to becoming a failed state, in the middle of a civil war - and it's all completely your own fault and the fault of your own politicians.

In 1991 you had everything; huge industry, mighty army and defense complex, large amounts of resources, most fertile land in Europe, +50 million population. Everything to become one of the important countries in Europe, a strong independent state linking the former USSR to the EU.

You have your own independent country, which has turned out to be a colossal failure, but an independent one nevertheless - so grow up as a nation and assume some responsibility for your own mistakes. The longer you defer this process and the more delusions you harbor, the more destructive your eventual fall down back to planet Earth will be.

Ukrainian forces are being walloped hard right now. They're getting a good thrashing. This is what I originally came here to say.

@Airbornewolf

NATO laws prohibit the supply of weapons to mercenaries ,groups  ..and thats exactly what US have been doing in Syria for 3-4 years. NATO is actually giving weapons already to ukraine.. Canada supplied javelin missiles just a week ago and one convoy was intercepted.   So NATO which is nothing other than US military extension ,never follow any laws..  they will break any law whenever they want it..and it serve its strategic interest.

Supplying weapons for example to groups in a civil war is against UN charter ,totally illegal and they do it.. Obama do it under the pretext they are "moderates" , still is illegal.. he is fueling violence in a nation sovereign nation. period.

So NATO already supply weapons to Ukraine..anti-tank rockets - cheap drones - communications devices..artillery munition with white phosporous.. that comes from US army that they used in IRAQ. What NATO will not do is give advanced weapons to them.. not because is illegal.. since they write their own laws and rules and break it whenever they want.. The reason why NATO do not help more Ukraine and or Georgia..  is not because laws created by them that they can change at any time they want. But because if for example Ukraine Joins NATO..
and RUssia attack Ukraine.. NATO will be forced by their own laws to fight Russia.. something they will not do..
So it will look really bad for the entire organization that a NATO member is attacked and they do nothing. it will even put at risk the credibility and the purpose of NATO if Ukraine becomes a member and Russia invade and they do nothing.

So thats the only reason why NATO do not give more help to Ukraine and make them members.. it will never happen. and that is because Ukraine vs Russia war is a very likely scenario to happen sooner or later and they do not want to have to deal with a fight with a NATION with 12,000 nuclear bombs. it will be terrible and catastrophic
for example if NATO ends wiped (AGAIN) as they were by CHINA in North Korea when they invaded. Losing a war is not good for the credibility of any military organization.. neither not helping a member state.. so this is why NATO do not allow Ukraine to join ..and also Georgia. To Fight a conventional war with Russia near their territory is a recipe for disaster ,specially for their supply lines. and a nuclear war nobody will risk being nuked by Russia for defending Radicals Nazis in Ukraine ,that are killing civilians women and children.

Another reason for NATO to accepting Ukraine as full member is technology.. A very powerful reason. If Ukraine
becomes a full member ,they will have the benefit to buy any kind of weapon from NATO.. Including F-35's ,Eurofighters ,Rafales , Leo Tanks and Abraham tanks.. or advanced attack drones.. and the last thing they want
is for Russia taking control of their technology... to study it and reverse engineer it.. Something that will happen if a pilot Russian Spy defect to Russia with a F-35 plane for example.. or that Russia invade ukraine and they easily wipe NATO tanks..which will be a major scandal for the western military hardware. Remember that the west Sell weapons.. and it will be catastrophic for their sales if for example an F-35 is shotdown by an S-300.. or if a M1A3 tank is destroyed by a T-90AM using special munition.

For US and its NATO extension world image is everything. They greatest fear is to look weak. And an useless organization..a perception like that will disband NATO .And it will be terrible for the organization future if a NATO member attacked and they do nothing or if their military hardware fails to Russian military weapons. then it will be very embarrassing.  As it was the F-117 when it was shot down in Serbia.  after that war.. the project was canceled. No longer reliable if can be shot down with soviet old weapons. And if Ukraine deploy for example its ABM shield in Ukraine.. they face a big risk..that Russia study it.. launch a cheap Toscka-U missile to see if it can be intercepted or a custom version of it and understand how American best defenses operate.

If Ukraine gets F-35 and is shot down by a Russian manpad from the Pro Russian separatist.. people worldwide will have a big laugh the entire month...and it could provoke countries to lose interest in the plane and not bother. yes for sure tacticians will say hey ,,the plane was not made for close air support.. but it will not matter..people image will be on the destroyed plane.. We live in the world of Perception. Good or Bad perception is the difference between Business Success or become Bankrupt.

This is why Russia if Invade Ukraine they will not use T-90s or will try to avoid them.. same with Su-35 planes..
Russia will try to avoid them in Ukraine if a war happens and only use advance weapons when airspace is cleared.
and if they can do the job with S-300s they will do it with them and avoid anything better.. To keep NATO spying away of their technology. I cannot wait to see Armata Tank ..super delicious..

I believe it's a fight between Greeks Ukrainians and Georgians for the greatest losers in European continent, anyway, you really mulled this guy with arguments some amazing posts above.

Hannibal Barca, you are wrong very wrong indeed, the United States of America and the European Union will not collapse, its the Russian Federation that will surely collapse (oh G-d, make it a reality!) its enough that oil prices drop from 100$ per barrel to about 50-60$ per barrell and putin huylo and Co will be in huuuuge trouble, at the same time USA and EU will benefit as they're based on manufacturing and services and hence like cheap oil unlike the Soviets.

Flamming Python ur also wrong, it is a foreign invasion from Russia, these "separatist"s fight surprisingly well just look at our casualties
- 72th brigade destroyed
- 30th brigade almosst destroyed
- 25th brigade has heavy casualties, in one company 6 men returned alive from the battlefield and the entire unit will be pulled out of combat at the request of one Oblast.
- other brigades also suffered casualties and now 28th brigade is taking losses

Man do you really believe that these guys who fight so well are just rag tag militia from DOnbass??? No, they're trained troops from Russia and they are supported by artillery fire. We got an amphibious landing near the border with russia while at the same time separatits banana pseudostates have no access to the sea and if they had with what would they make a desant? Fishing boats??? It was an infiltration its just that putin huylo cant invade with full force because he would piss off Americans and Germans, he has to send his forces bit by bit but effect is the same.

Petro007 wrote:Hannibal Barca, you are wrong very wrong indeed, the United States of America and the European Union will not collapse, its the Russian Federation that will surely collapse (oh G-d, make it a reality!) its enough that oil prices drop from 100$ per barrel to about 50-60$ per barrell and putin huylo and Co will be in huuuuge trouble, at the same time USA and EU will benefit as they're based on manufacturing and services and hence like cheap oil unlike the Soviets.

Flamming Python ur also wrong, it is a foreign invasion from Russia, these "separatist"s fight surprisingly well just look at our casualties
- 72th brigade destroyed
- 30th brigade almosst destroyed
- 25th brigade has heavy casualties, in one company 6 men returned alive from the battlefield and the entire unit will be pulled out of combat at the request of one Oblast.
- other brigades also suffered casualties and now 28th brigade is taking losses

Man do you really believe that these guys who fight so well are just rag tag militia from DOnbass??? No, they're trained troops from Russia and they are supported by artillery fire. We got an amphibious landing near the border with russia while at the same time separatits banana pseudostates have no access to the sea and if they had with what would they make a desant? Fishing boats??? It was an infiltration its just that putin huylo cant invade with full force because he would piss off Americans and Germans, he has to send his forces bit by bit but effect is the same.

Just for your information.. The American Dollar.. is 100% dependent of the price of Oil.. you read it right 100%
dependent. IF the oil price is low their economy suffers much more than Russia.. because Russia do not depend on oil alone but also. So Russia economy is not as dependent on oil. If the oil value goes to $50 the US economy collapse. it will collapse Saudi Arabia economy and the US dollar too.  So if it was as easy as that they will have done it LONG LONG TIME AGO.  Not going to happen.. USA depends of the price of oil in the market for the dollar value.  For buying Oil to saudi Arabia you cannot do it.. using your currency. you need to buy american dollars because thats the only currency they accept.

About Russia helping the Rebels.. it could be.. nobody is saying thats not possible.. But you need to realize the following things.. to understand Russia actions.

-Kiev current administation got in power through a violent coup removing an democratically elected
President that was friendly to Russia.
-The US Congress ,lead by Victoria Nuland financed the coup with $5 billions , is on record said by her. The money was given through USAID agencies..and paid to euromaidans for protesting to remove yakunovych..
-Kiev is using the army to bomb cities indiscriminately.. killing every day civilians women and children.
-Russia understand that Americans are in control of Kiev.. and that their Historical Naval base and nation security
was in a big Risk if they do not protect Crimea. so they did.. the Referendum and Russian support there made it easier.
-Russia cannot side with Kiev ,when they are very hostile to Russia and bombing indiscriminately civilians who support Russia.
-If Russia does nothing and let the separatist to be killed , they will have to fight with their army your country..
because Crimea will be next..

So Russia is trying to avoid a major war...because as i told you.. if Ukraine wins in eastern Ukraine the war will move to Crimea.. wich 90% of its residents supported joining Russia. If Russia just help the rebels to Hold their territories , sooner or later it will pressure Kiev to negotiate and end the war.

The people in power in Kiev will only destroy your Nation.. if they are allowed to do what they want.. i don't think any ukrainian wants a major war with Russia.. knowing the chances of you winning are zero. and that NATO will NOT help you...other that some weapons. IF obama wanted to help you..they will have done it long time ago. and send its army.. But even US fear Russia.. military capabilities. so this is why Poroshenko is not receiving direct help from NATO..  Poroshenko even told ,that he "do not understand" why US helps IRAQ directly with its airforce and not Ukraine in that same way.   the answer is obvious ->Russia.

So Putin is not interested remotely in capturing any more territory..Crimea was taken only because the Entire NATION security was at risk..with their historical naval base that they have before Ukraine existed.. even less interested because they are Communist with experience in armed revolutions.. that knows how to Rebel.  But neither Russia is interested in a world war.. and being forced to invade ukraine to protect civilians and Crimea.
So the less bad thing Russia can do is help rebels hold their territory and force Poroshenko to end the war and negotiate with them..

Petro007 wrote:Hannibal Barca, you are wrong very wrong indeed, the United States of America and the European Union will not collapse, its the Russian Federation that will surely collapse (oh G-d, make it a reality!) its enough that oil prices drop from 100$ per barrel to about 50-60$ per barrell and putin huylo and Co will be in huuuuge trouble, at the same time USA and EU will benefit as they're based on manufacturing and services and hence like cheap oil unlike the Soviets.

Flamming Python ur also wrong, it is a foreign invasion from Russia, these "separatist"s fight surprisingly well just look at our casualties
- 72th brigade destroyed
- 30th brigade almosst destroyed
- 25th brigade has heavy casualties, in one company 6 men returned alive from the battlefield and the entire unit will be pulled out of combat at the request of one Oblast.
- other brigades also suffered casualties and now 28th brigade is taking losses

Man do you really believe that these guys who fight so well are just rag tag militia from DOnbass??? No, they're trained troops from Russia and they are supported by artillery fire. We got an amphibious landing near the border with russia while at the same time separatits banana pseudostates have no access to the sea and if they had with what would they make a desant? Fishing boats??? It was an infiltration its just that putin huylo cant invade with full force because he would piss off Americans and Germans, he has to send his forces bit by bit but effect is the same.

So, you are completley living in parallel universe? How many Ukrainian soldiers have desertered and pledged alliance to rebels? 4500-7000? There are thousands, also there are many who have been in Soviet Union in military same as many former ukrainian soldiers, that is not some Afghanistan were the portion of population which have never served in the Army is pretty high. If those were mainly russians there would be no ukrainian army today.

US would do nothing except finance you little scums in ukraine, no US would ever invade, russia could do as it pleases if they really wanted to crush fail state ukraine.
What would NATO do with a pathetic logistics send 100 tanks in one year getting crushed by russian army, send again 100 tanks within one year and again crushed?
That would mean first nukes would fall onto Germany. Nobody gonna give shit about f*cked up ukraine anyway. They don't care about you, you are just whores that are used to piss of Russia.

from twitter..

We don't have enough force to defend #Mariupol" - Azov battalion spokesman makes panicky statements on #Russia|n attack #Ukraine

and Lavrov announned a second humanitarian convoy in the works..
Definitively Russia is pressuring Kiev to negotiate with the Rebels.. or they will have to fight
for years and destroy its economy.

#Lavrov: "Russia will send a 2nd humanitarian aid convoy to #Lugansk region along the same route as the 1st convoy with less delay" wrote:

Petro007 wrote:THIS IS NOT A CIVIL WAR but a FOREIGN INVASION of the Ukrainian territory. WE CAN WIN IT. WE just need more support from NATO... more advisors, more training, more equipment. We need Leopard-2s, F-16s anti tank missiles, recon drones. If United States Arny could deploy in Eastern Ukraine, it should.

For 20 years we have been kept in backwardness and stagnation by RU and now Putin huylo wasnts to dismantle our country. How much disgrace is enough???

Hey all...  I've been lurking on this site for awhile now, and finally took the plunge to join   I'm an Australian pommie (ex-Brit) but don't judge me by the boot-licking, half-witted, clue-less product of sibling-union that is our illustrious Prime Minister, Tony "The Mad Monk" Abbott. I am certainly no pro-Empire sycophant...

Anyhow, to respond to our pro-Kiev friend here, I'm afraid that Ukrainian "backwardness and stagnation" is an entirely home-grown malady, and Russia is simply the convenient scapegoat for Ukraines' self-inflicted wounds.  Unlike Russia (where Putin has read out the riot act in the back-rooms and the corridors of power, and successfully stared down the Oligarch filth that were destroying his nation), Ukraine has remained in the hands of competing Oligarch clans who own nearly everything of value and strategic importance, and who use their wealth and media control to subvert the political system and reduce the elected politicians to little more than than rented service providers.  Self-serving and deeply corrupt money-grubbers like Tymoshenko, Ahkmetov, Kolomoisky and Porky-shenko have relentlessly pursued their own selfish agendas and placed their own financial well-being above that of the nation and its people, and the results speak for themselves.

As for Putin wanting to "dismantle our country", who exactly do you mean by "our"?  The people of the South & East seem to consider their cities, towns and villages as belonging to those who live there, and not to Banderite thugs from Lviv or Ivano-Frankivsk. Oddly enough (!!), they have strongly disapproved of seeing the legitimate and democratically elected Parliamentary government and then president both forced from power by organised violence of far-right neo-nazi street thugs, aided and abetted by US/EU politicians and opposition oligarchs.  They have watched Right Sector goons openly displaying Banderite portraits and wearing armbands and combat gear emblazoned with Nazi-era Wolfsangel symbol, while western corporate media covers its eyes in its refusal to admit the obvious presence of Nazi elements as the putschists mailed fist.  If anyone is dismantling Ukraine, it is the likes of Right Sector, Svoboda and Udar radicals.

"How much disgrace is enough???"  Good question.  I would have thought that the outrageous crimes like the mass-murder at Odessa, or the indiscriminate shelling of Lugansk and Donetsk would have been sufficient to demonstrate the madness and hatred that lies at the heart of the junta and its supporters....

Vann7 wrote:
from twitter..

We don't have enough force to defend #Mariupol" - Azov battalion spokesman makes panicky statements on #Russia|n attack #Ukraine

Looking forward to seeing the Azov Battalion being ground down into dog-meat, right down to the the very last goose-stepping Banderite...    Life is good sometimes...  

Petro007 wrote:Hannibal Barca, you are wrong very wrong indeed, the United States of America and the European Union will not collapse, its the Russian Federation that will surely collapse (oh G-d, make it a reality!) its enough that oil prices drop from 100$ per barrel to about 50-60$ per barrell and putin huylo and Co will be in huuuuge trouble, at the same time USA and EU will benefit as they're based on manufacturing and services and hence like cheap oil unlike the Soviets.

Flamming Python ur also wrong, it is a foreign invasion from Russia, these "separatist"s fight surprisingly well just look at our casualties
- 72th brigade destroyed
- 30th brigade almosst destroyed
- 25th brigade has heavy casualties, in one company 6 men returned alive from the battlefield and the entire unit will be pulled out of combat at the request of one Oblast.
- other brigades also suffered casualties and now 28th brigade is taking losses

Man do you really believe that these guys who fight so well are just rag tag militia from DOnbass??? No, they're trained troops from Russia and they are supported by artillery fire. We got an amphibious landing near the border with russia while at the same time separatits banana pseudostates have no access to the sea and if they had with what would they make a desant? Fishing boats??? It was an infiltration its just that putin huylo cant invade with full force because he would piss off Americans and Germans, he has to send his forces bit by bit but effect is the same.

Either your not Ukrainian and some other troll, or ill informed.

You dont need to worry about Russian economy as their debt is very low and they are second most in industrial production next to Germany. India and China, two fastest growing economies already have or are working on deals with Russia that combined, outdoes their trade with EU. EU on the other hand was havibg around $200B trade in goods to Russia that is now slipping away and they are now feeling it.

If you are Ukrainian, then you will be able to read this site: sdelanounas.ru as it gives a good indication to Russian development.

Oh, as for oil and gas, Russia can easily survive even if it went down to $40 per barrel. Wont go that low though, as there is already still massive demand for it and it is still growing.

fragmachine wrote:With Kharkov on side of Novorussia they could depend on themselves with armour producing and maintaining.

I wonder if they have any possibility of producing ammunition, rifles, machine guns and mortars in Luhansk or Donetsk? It would be useful for them to have couple thousand rifles and ammo for them on their disposal, rather than counting on Ukr army for equipping Novorussian army. Going offensive means less possibilities for creating new cauldrons.

Well, I ask you to forgive me about my ignorance, but do You think that the Novorussia Army has any chance to take Kahrkov Oblast or maybe you are just talking about some operations behind the enemy lines?

GustavoHF wrote:

fragmachine wrote:With Kharkov on side of Novorussia they could depend on themselves with armour producing and maintaining.

I wonder if they have any possibility of producing ammunition, rifles, machine guns and mortars in Luhansk or Donetsk? It would be useful for them to have couple thousand rifles and ammo for them on their disposal, rather than counting on Ukr army for equipping Novorussian army. Going offensive means less possibilities for creating new cauldrons.

Well, I ask you to forgive me about my ignorance, but do You think that the Novorussia Army has any chance to take Kahrkov Oblast or maybe you are just talking about some operations behind the enemy lines?

Well, things looks bad for junta, national guard already fleed from Mariupol even though it isn't being engaged by NR forces yet. My guess is junta won't let Mariupol just slip to the hands of Novorussia so they will probably concentrate there their forces (or around it). I might be wrong, but Kharkov region already seen quite wide range of resistance operations so grounds for junta are shaky there. Novorussia push north of Luhansk and it only depends on weak spots in Ukr defence lines what will be next. Kharkov might be liberated soon, Mariupol soonish but fighting in Mariupol might be bloodier for both sides.

UPDATE:


Just to add of what I wrote about pushing north. They actively doing that.

Petro007 wrote:Hannibal Barca, you are wrong very wrong indeed, the United States of America and the European Union will not collapse, its the Russian Federation that will surely collapse (oh G-d, make it a reality!) its enough that oil prices drop from 100$ per barrel to about 50-60$ per barrell and putin huylo and Co will be in huuuuge trouble, at the same time USA and EU will benefit as they're based on manufacturing and services and hence like cheap oil unlike the Soviets.

Flamming Python ur also wrong, it is a foreign invasion from Russia, these "separatist"s fight surprisingly well just look at our casualties
- 72th brigade destroyed
- 30th brigade almosst destroyed
- 25th brigade has heavy casualties, in one company 6 men returned alive from the battlefield and the entire unit will be pulled out of combat at the request of one Oblast.
- other brigades also suffered casualties and now 28th brigade is taking losses

Man do you really believe that these guys who fight so well are just rag tag militia from DOnbass???

Lol, we got our personal ukr junkhead patriot!

Fella, the Russian army would pierce ukraininan defences in a matter of days, may be even hours

 It was an infiltration its just that putin huylo cant invade with full force because he would piss off Americans and Germans, he has to send his forces bit by bit but effect is the same

Just compare Crimea troops and Donbass ones

banana pseudostates

Do you mean Ukraine?

For Kharkov I don't want to speak. Like I said 15 days ago I have detailed information about what appears that they intent to do.
For Mariupol and the rest my personal understanding is that they don't intent to resume offensive until the end of summer about a month from now plus
we have to see how far they plan to go. [Putin so far select a light footing like he did in Georgia. Don't know if he chooses to switch gears this time, hope he does though

I can see eight cauldrons and possibility for niner from Gorlovka with captured Artemovsk.

If that would be a Russian army then it would be no problem with capacity in tanks, men , planes and helicopters to progress to Lvov in matter of few days. But Novorussian militia does not posses such quantity in people and material to left these cauldrons and roar through Ukr positions in Blitzkrieg style.

It does not posses planes and helicopters too - or I am wrong, fan of Petri Porkoshenko? I am wrong?

Petro007 - what's up with agent Porky shenko, Petro Porkyshenko? Only banana state is western banderistan whose scums bite tit of their own mother that feeds them - to death. Without Eastern Oblasts banana banderistan is nothing but twenty-four year old men that think, act and cry like a newborn child. And it is so because your mother was soft to you, feed you, loved you and when you tried to kill her, she put some belts on your ass!

You're really frustrated one

fragmachine wrote:UPDATE:


Just to add of what I wrote about pushing north. They actively doing that.

To plagiarize:
This is better than sex!

Petro007 wrote:Hannibal Barca, you are wrong very wrong indeed, the United States of America and the European Union will not collapse, its the Russian Federation that will surely collapse (oh G-d, make it a reality!) its enough that oil prices drop from 100$ per barrel to about 50-60$ per barrell and putin huylo and Co will be in huuuuge trouble, at the same time USA and EU will benefit as they're based on manufacturing and services and hence like cheap oil unlike the Soviets.

The Russian Federation is a strong, stable country with some of the largest gold and foreign currency reserves in the world.
We'll be fine.

Those Soviets meanwhile built everything in the Ukraine you see today. The infastructure, cities, roads/railroads, nuclear power, ports, airports, institutes, factories, etc...
In the past 23 years nothing has been built.

Your leaders were and continue to be - the Great Destroyers. Because they destroyed what could have been a great country. And they're continuing to do so now, oblivious to the people under the sway of the propaganda that they've been pouring all their resources into.

23 years is how long it took for China to become a country where people go around in sandals and ride bicycles everywhere - to an economic superpower.
It's how long it took Stalin to transform the USSR from a poor backward agrarian country to a nuclear superpower.

Unfortunately you've learnt nothing.
One country is selecting a president for you. Another country is annexing your territory.
Then the country that selected a president for you tells you that the country that is annexing your territory is the enemy.
And the circus continues.

Flamming Python ur also wrong, it is a foreign invasion from Russia, these "separatist"s fight surprisingly well just look at our casualties
- 72th brigade destroyed
- 30th brigade almosst destroyed
- 25th brigade has heavy casualties, in one company 6 men returned alive from the battlefield and the entire unit will be pulled out of combat at the request of one Oblast.
- other brigades also suffered casualties and now 28th brigade is taking losses

Man do you really believe that these guys who fight so well are just rag tag militia from DOnbass??? No, they're trained troops from Russia and they are supported by artillery fire. We got an amphibious landing near the border with russia while at the same time separatits banana pseudostates have no access to the sea and if they had with what would they make a desant? Fishing boats??? It was an infiltration its just that putin huylo cant invade with full force because he would piss off Americans and Germans, he has to send his forces bit by bit but effect is the same.

So, what, you've come here just to whine about how you're getting whooped?

Your leaders are the ones who decided to use force and repression, after of course getting into power violently and take away the political representation both in the presidential seat and in parliament - of millions of people; more than anything in the Donbass and the Crimea.
And they're not having it.

That whole 'we're allowed to protest, violently depose our government - but you Russians are not!' (not that the Donbassians did even half of that before your leaders declared the 'ATO'), or the 'we're allowed to declare independence from our parent state - but you Russians are not!' - is really not on.
It's more the logic of criminals and their disputes in a prison that Turchinov, Porky and their supporters have got going there, than that of any sort of democratic society. So yeah, dream on about battling the Bolshevik hordes with NATO assistance.

Petro007 wrote:THIS IS NOT A CIVIL WAR but a FOREIGN INVASION of the Ukrainian territory. WE CAN WIN IT. WE just need more support from NATO... more advisors, more training, more equipment. We need Leopard-2s, F-16s anti tank missiles, recon drones. If United States Arny could deploy in Eastern Ukraine, it should.

For 20 years we have been kept in backwardness and stagnation by RU and now Putin huylo wasnts to dismantle our country. How much disgrace is enough???

Petro007 wrote:Hannibal Barca, you are wrong very wrong indeed, the United States of America and the European Union will not collapse, its the Russian Federation that will surely collapse (oh G-d, make it a reality!) its enough that oil prices drop from 100$ per barrel to about 50-60$ per barrell and putin huylo and Co will be in huuuuge trouble, at the same time USA and EU will benefit as they're based on manufacturing and services and hence like cheap oil unlike the Soviets.

Flamming Python ur also wrong, it is a foreign invasion from Russia, these "separatist"s fight surprisingly well just look at our casualties
- 72th brigade destroyed
- 30th brigade almosst destroyed
- 25th brigade has heavy casualties, in one company 6 men returned alive from the battlefield and the entire unit will be pulled out of combat at the request of one Oblast.
- other brigades also suffered casualties and now 28th brigade is taking losses

Man do you really believe that these guys who fight so well are just rag tag militia from DOnbass??? No, they're trained troops from Russia and they are supported by artillery fire. We got an amphibious landing near the border with russia while at the same time separatits banana pseudostates have no access to the sea and if they had with what would they make a desant? Fishing boats??? It was an infiltration its just that putin huylo cant invade with full force because he would piss off Americans and Germans, he has to send his forces bit by bit but effect is the same.

It seems you are very young or naive, maybe both. First of all, there is no foreign invasion, but civil war. Donbass rebel to Kiev junta and they defend themselves against Ukrainian army and nazi battalions. That is why they are so determined to defeat Kiev regime. No foreign force will be so determined to fight against Kiev regime. Also, if there was foreign invasion, than it would be foreign army, that would shell and bomb cities in Donbass, not Ukrainian army. Unfortunately for Novorussian army, there is no foreign army fighting on their side, only volunteers, which come from Russia, Belarus, Spain, France, Italy,...

Yes, you are correct, Ukrainian army have catastrophically big losses, but not because of fighting with stronger foreign army, but because of incompetent military leaders. Considering the size and strenght of Ukrainian army, they could not lose this war with average competent military leaders. But Ukrainian army is leaded by idiots and this is why you lost two full divisions in two months against smaller and weaker opponent, but who is very determined to fight against you and have high moral and competent leaders.

You say you need NATO supplies of ATGMs, Leopard-2 tanks and F-16 planes. Question is, who will pay for them? Ukraine doesn't have money, so maybe NATO should donate them. After all, they will not make any difference on battlefield, only Novorussian army could capture some shiny NATO armament. Yes I agree, NATO should donate them to Ukraine. There is no better way to disarm NATO, than that they send their weapons to idiots, to be destroyed and captured. The same way as they send weapons to jihadists in Libya and Syria and now those weapons are turning against them in hands of caliphate.

You could bet Russia and China would really like to see, that oil become 50-60$ per barrel. Russia is pumping easy access oil and with such price they will still have profit, not so big, but still profit. Also Russia is now selling oil and gas in Rubles, not in $. US easy oil sources are empty and they now pump oil with fracking method. This is expensive and with so low prices, the cost of pumping the barrel with fracking method will be higher, than what they will get for that barrel. And who will cover the loss? US companies themselves. So they will stop fracking or go bankrupt, anyway, they will be out from market, what mean more sells for Russia and higher prices as US oil will be out of market. Don't forget, US $ is based on oil and gas trades. Russia going from US$ to Ruble and Juan is a big blow for US, lowering the price for oil will only mean the fall of the value of US $, because there will be too many $ around, This mean US will have to stop printing 100 billion $ per month and there will be a hyperinflation, which will devalue US$ and oil and gas will become very expensive in US$ as they will be priced in Rubles and Juans. With the fall of US$, US economy will fall and US military might as well. For few bad years Russia and China will become World's number 1 economy and World's military superpowers and they will US and EU, which will become the 3rd World states.

For the Ukrainian guy..
->@Petro007


1)Russia is not interested in more territory ,they only took crimea because their nation access to the black sea was at risk.. it was a nation security issue taking crimea ,backed by a referendum.. on top that Crimea was illegally passed to Ukraine. when it was a Russian land since many centuries.. it was an unfinished territorial issue.that now was fixed.
2) Ukraine does not need more tanks and more combat jets.. and more soldiers.. what Ukraine need is peace and dialogue. You people need to protest and force your President to stop the war ,so no more people killed. No matter how many weapons NATO give you , you cannot defeat the Rebels with Russia support. and if NATO invade ,Russia will also do it .and push them back.. If Poroshenko continue the war ,the only thing he will get is the destruction of Ukraine and hundreds of thousands lives lost for nothing. Ukrainians need peace and dialogue with the Rebels.. Russia Lavrov just recently was pushing for AUtonomy only for eastern Ukraine.. so you do not lose Donetsk and Lugansk but they do get the rights to have their own security and their own elected Government.
3)Crimea is lost forever.. you cannot take it away from Russia , they can't backtrack and betray the 2 millions of Russians who asked to join Russia. But Russia however can negotiate a mutual development of Crimea with Ukraine ,so Ukrainians can normally enter Crimea if they desire for vacations or anything..
4) You cannot isolate Russia economy.. US only control Europe ,and some other colonies of UK. To Isolate RUssia economy you need China and India to side with America but that will never happen. They have historical good relations with Russia.
5) Russia is not interested in more territory , not interested in anexing Lugansk or Donetsk.. and will prefer they to not split from Ukraine.. But Russia cannot stand iddle doing nothing while Poroshenko use its army indiscriminately
to attack cities. killing civilians women and children asking Russia help..  Kiev is the only one to blame for the war..
Russia asked for a cease fire and negotiations for autonomy months ago ,so the war is avoided. But kiev did not listen.. they only listen Obama who wants to fight Russia using ukrainians.
6)Russia do not control the separatist.. they have big influence.. but not control. Russia even asked them to postpone the Referendum and they deny it.
7)There are 8 millions ethnic Russians in Ukraine.. you cannot have a government that discriminate with 20% of the Ukraine population.. on top that there are ethnic Ukrainians that also are pro Russia. Any future government in Kiev , needs to be a government that serve all people.. not only Pro EUROmaidans.. also needs to have ethnic Russians in power positions that are pro Russia..to end the civil war.
8 - Federalization is the only thing that can save Ukraine.. that each major Zone ,elect their own Government..
And the RIght Sector and other radicals groups hostile to Russians needs to go from any position in politics. You cannot expect to have peace in Ukraine ,while Right Sector goes to pro Russian cities with baseball bats and guns to terrorize Ethnic Russians.

Nice gains in recent days - ANR is on the role

Don’t wait for orders! Don’t delay
With reference to rest!
Forge forth! Through wind and piercing rain
And blizzard’s howling wail!
Abandon comfort’s cozy quilt —
You’re young, the way is yours!
You’ll have the time to rest your soul
When they lament your death!

Be brave, be fair, don’t heed the tongues
That ridicule and sneer.
And as a leader, take the brunt
Of duty on yourself!

If you have never been at fault,
Your life’s a wasted bloom —
You’ve shied away from picking up
The burdens of this world!

Whatever brings your lot to you —
Success or failure’s wrath,
Remember this – your measure’s worth
Will only judge our Lord!

Igor Ivanovich Strelkov, 1991

Now, I got something that will make our PUke friend mad: http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=fdc_1408909929

Seems Russia got greenlight from Germany to buy the company that is doing the reverse gasflow to Ukraine.

Huehuehuehuehue

I like the "suggestive" pictures of of Putin used, one with his grinning face, the other one showing a discreet finger.