Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

sepheronx wrote:
The simple fact is, there is no way US can have any footprint in Armenia.  So Armenians can be as stupid as they want because Pashinyan fucked over the country and did nothing (Armenian army doesn't do shit and leaves their AD systems in barns for crying out loud) and think US will actually help them.  They can't get through Russia to assist. Can't get through Iran. Turkey won't be allowing US buildup in Armenia as it will just throw Azerbaijan entirely into Russian arms afterwards and Georgia is landlocked and can't get through.

Armenian wrote:

Yes Pashinyan isn’t reliable figure, he is not Pro-American or Pro-NATO, he is just and idiot who Armenians trusted that can deal with corruption. Not liking him doens’t mean that it’s fine to punish an entire country.

Broski wrote:

franco wrote:My understanding of the defense pact was that Russia did not recognize Karabakh as being part of Armenia? Correct me if I'm wrong.

It's even worse than that, Armenia doesn't recognize Nagorno-Karabakh as a part of its own territory but for some strange reason, they expected Russia to fight Azerbaijan for it? I hope to God Armenia leaves the CTSO and kicks out Russia so Turkey can finish them off, one less problem for Putin.

ALAMO wrote:

Armenian wrote:
How do you exactly expect Armenia to relly on Russia after all of this? No one gives a damn about the US here, people Armenia were pro-Russian, even maybe more than Russians themselves today.
What left is just the feeling of betrayal and you can thank to Putin for that.

Yeah, we all need a good stand-up from time to time, so that applies I guess.
You are mentioning the same Armenia, that causes irrevocable damage to its allied status for the last 10 years or so?
With several "revolutions", civil unrest, and threats how about they will leave the collective structures?
Ruled by a guy, who claims article 4th, while calling Emmanuel?
Azeris are a much more reliable partner for Russkie like always. They just do business, can be persuaded to anything that brings mutual benefits, and don't cry like babies.
Play stupid games, and gain stupid prizes. It is all yours.

Armenian wrote:Just excuses. We all know that the war couldn’t have started if Putin didn’t give his OK for it.

It’s funny when I am seeing staff about NKR not being part of Armenia and points on why Russia couldn't intervene.

Are you all aware that Armenia’s PROPER got invided by Azerbaijan just about 2 weeks ago? Are you aware that Azeris killed more than 200 Armenian soldiers, 3 civilians, got 7.5 km deep into Armenia’s sovereign territory?

According to the defense pact signed in 1997 Russia had to intervene and protect Armenia. What happened? 

After Armenia’s formal request Russia just ignored and didn’t even condemn Azeris attack 

How do you exactly expect Armenia to relly on Russia after all of this? 

No one gives a damn about the US here, people Armenia were pro-Russian, even maybe more than Russians themselves today.

What left is just the feeling of betrayal and you can thank to Putin for that.

ALAMO wrote:Azeris are a much more reliable partner for Russkie like always. They just do business, can be persuaded to anything that brings mutual benefits, and don't cry like babies.

Armenian wrote:
I used to be a pro-Russian person my self but seeing such comments here makes me just realize how stupid we all were we just had to behave like Turks as this is how things work apparently.

flamming_python wrote:

Armenian wrote:Armenia is the only remaining country Russia has military base and influance. Only country that sees Russia not as foe but a friend.

This was of course the case until 2020 when entire country realized the fact that Putin sold Armenia to Turks. It was certainly a big shock as Armenians had confidence that Russia would never allow a war in the region. It was of surely stupid to think that as countries have their interests and things never stay the same in the dynamic world.

I remember Putin’s speech when he was saying that it’s not Armenia’s proper that got attacked, if it was Russia will defend Armenia. 2 years later Armsnia got invaded by the same Azerbaijan, Russia didn’t even condemned the attack. CSTO receiving formal request of help, didn’t do a damn thing and just sent some commender for monitoring it was like having fun with Armenians, people that lost 207 of their kids in 2 days against Turkish drones.

Outcome? Russia made their decision to stand with Turkish block and betrayed an entire nation. I would understand it if this was in Russia’s interest but I just have the impression that Turks played Putin, again.

Now US found the chance to take the region from Russia for good. Armenia knowing that Russia is not willing to protect them(even though there is a mutual defence pact) now is forced to side with the US. Recent pools shows that Armenians support to Russia decresed from %80 to %30. So people will be defiantly fine to have security instead of humiliation.

Yes Pashinyan isn’t reliable figure, he is not Pro-American or Pro-NATO, he is just and idiot who Armenians trusted that can deal with corruption. Not liking him doens’t mean that it’s fine to punish an entire country.

Losing the last remaining ally? For what, for two-faced Turks that always backstabbed Russia?

Good job Putin and kudos to everyone who didn’t give the slightest damn to Armenia which stood with Russia even during the Syrian conflict. Russia is great for turning their friends into their enemies. That I can give.

I would agree but Putin has clearly outsourced the protection of Armenia to Iran for the duration of the conflict. That's obvious. And no-one trusts the Turks or Erdogan; just that Russia needs them to keep open airspace and the Bosphorus for the duration of the war in the Ukraine; which they may close if Russia openly moves against Azerbaijan.

I rather suspect it is in fact the Azeris/Turks who orchestrated this turn of events in Armenia in the first place in coalition with NATO, with the provocations on the border trying to embarrass Moscow. It worked, and as presumably agreed, Armenia is trying to switch to Washington now.

So now Armenia may be where the Turks want it to be as well. Broken with its former ally and with Washington now trying to act as its guarantor. Only Washington will dump it as soon as the Turks definitively agree to go ahead with a pan-Turkic agenda against Russia and Iran and China in exchange for that sliver of southern Armenian territory that divides Turkey from mainland Azerbaijan. Which the Turks may decide on given the right incentive or if Moscow starts to show weakness against NATO.

Use your head. Rest of the Armenians too. Emotions and cries of betrayal are for fools in this game. In reality Russia and Armenia are natural allies and that's how it will always be.

As for Pashinyan, he is indeed an agent of American intelligence and has not gone rogue from them. He can be counted on pry Armenia from its alliance with Russia at any available opportunity and that's what he's doing. After the peace agreement was signed between Pashinyan and Aliev, Pashinyan did not ratify the border as agreed upon with Moscow's mediation. It's possible he has been doing something underhanded to precipitate the latest escalation as well, although my impression as mentioned previously - is that it's Baku's/Ankara's scheme.

Armenian wrote:Pashinyan is here today simply because Armenians are sick and tired of the old Mafia regime that stole their entire recources for 30 years to become multi millioners. Pashinyan is extramly lucky as if the opposition figures were different people there is a %0 chance that he would remained as PM after losing the war. Understand how big hate there is on the previous regime that people found no other way but to vote for Nikol again.

lancelot wrote:Sounds to me like you ate US propaganda hook line and sinker. That is the typical US line, that selling your country to foreigners is fighting corruption, they did that in Ukraine and the result is the Ukrainians don't even own large swathes of their own farmland anymore. It is now owned by US conglomerates.

The US and their goons start the problems in NK, and then they come up with the "solution", and you just lap it up.

Russia has better things to do than walk into an obvious trap when they have bigger fish to fry.

caveat emptor wrote:This is not about Pashinyan being pro West or not. If Armenians make a formal request for Russian help, Russia has to obey. There's no ifs ands or buts. It is clearly spelled out in the CSTO agreement. Nancy Pelosi can be a president of Armenia, and they would be still obliged to do it.

lancelot wrote:Ahah. No.

caveat emptor wrote:

lancelot wrote:Sounds to me like you ate US propaganda hook line and sinker. That is the typical US line, that selling your country to foreigners is fighting corruption, they did that in Ukraine and the result is the Ukrainians don't even own large swathes of their own farmland anymore. It is now owned by US conglomerates.

The US and their goons start the problems in NK, and then they come up with the "solution", and you just lap it up.

Russia has better things to do than walk into an obvious trap when they have bigger fish to fry.

This is not about Pashinyan being pro West or not. If Armenians make a formal request for Russian help, Russia has to obey. There's no ifs ands or buts. It is clearly spelled out in the CSTO agreement. Nancy Pelosi can be a president of Armenia, and they would be still obliged to do it.

Armenian wrote:Garry, Let’s forget NKR for a second if you don’t mind.

Azerbaijan attacked Armenia 2 weeks ago, killed 207 soldiers, 3 civillians and advanced 7.5 km deep into Armenia’s soverign terretory.

Now can you please answer this question. Armenia has a defance pact signed with Russia in 1997 according to which Russia should defend Armenia.

Armenia formally requested military help from Russia right after the attack. Forget about help Russia didn’t even condemn the attack.

Now, let be direct. Should Russia help or no? That’s a very simple question that needs a simple answer.

Hole wrote:1. Armenia is not the only "friendly" country where Russia has a base. Russia has foreign bases in Tajikistan, Kirgistan, Abkhazia, South-Ossetia and Syria. 

2. Azerbaidschan killed armenian soldiers and moved into the country. What did the armenian army do? Before asking Russia to fight, do it yourself.

3. There is a simple solution to all of this. Make a referendum, become part of Russia again and all this shit will stop. There could even be a deal made so that Karabakh could become a russian region with the right for the Azeris that lived there to return under the protection of Russia.