Azerbaijan vs Armenia [Nagorno-Karabakh conflict]

Azerbaijan again attacked sovereign Armenia. 3 KIA so far.

Garry, Let’s forget NKR for a second if you don’t mind.

Azerbaijan attacked Armenia 2 weeks ago, killed 207 soldiers, 3 civillians and advanced 7.5 km deep into Armenia’s soverign terretory.

Now can you please answer this question. Armenia has a defance pact signed with Russia in 1997 according to which Russia should defend Armenia.

Armenia formally requested military help from Russia right after the attack. Forget about help Russia didn’t even condemn the attack.

Now, let be direct. Should Russia help or no? That’s a very simple question that needs a simple answer.

From the information provided and ignoring NKR, yes you are right, Russia should have at the very least condemned the attack and promised help... but what information is not being provided?

You admit your leader is only in power because the alternatives, while more pro Russia, are in your words corrupt... do you trust the information coming from your government?

I mean the fact that they received Nancy Pelosi... a venomous anti Russian psycho bitch... and smiled and got photos with her... suggests Armenia is on the turn.

Is your loyalty fully based on what Russia can do for you now and if you get a better offer then that loyalty is thrown in their faces?

I suspect rather than just being leader, that there are CIA minions working feverishly for him making him and the US look good and Russia and everyone else to look bad... if you ignore that well of course you will end up like the Ukraine... everything is Russias fault... why didn't they save us when we needed our white knight.

I come from a tiny country too and I understand that fear of not being defended by a big power... near where I live money was spent two centuries ago to build a coastal artillery emplacement because we were not given assurances from the British that the royal navy would always be here to defend us, and our tiny population at the time could not support a navy that could do any better... so we build guns in harbours... to defend us from the Russians.

When they did finally come they wanted to trade and were less trouble than the Americans were.

If you want fast and fierce Russian support then you need to align more with Russia and stop playing the turk game of playing one superpower off another for your advantage.

If Armenia wants Russian support they need to clarify their position on a few things and NK is the main one as that seems to be a large part of the issue between Azeri and Armenia.

It is like the Minsk agreements... never anything other than a temporary mechanism for the aggressor to build up forces to escalate later on when they are better prepared.

In the Ukraine however the difference was that in 2014 these republics didn't see themselves as Russian, they saw themselves as Ukrainians who just spoke Russian and didn't want to change to Ukrainian. After being shelled by their fellow Ukrainians for the last 8 years however their loyalties and view of the world at large has shifted... it is not just getting shelled by your own country... but having the entire west not just turn a blind eye but to actually blame you for it all and encourage Kiev to shell you to get rid of so called Russian invaders... well a referendum just makes sense now.

What I don't understand is why a referendum in NK has not already been set up years ago... you should have done it in 2008 when Kosovo declared independence to minimise the BS from the west.

3: Armenia is an independent country and it’s in Russia’s interest to have Armenia as an independent country. It’s unbelievable and also sad still seeing people living with the Soviet Union fantasies. Saying staff like this and then asking why Armenia is trying to have different alliances is a bit ironic.

Russia is a federation... Armenia could retain its languages and customs and culture while being part of the Russian Federation... it is the only iron clad defence from western interference as it brings nuclear weapons in to the mix.

You could even do a Cuba and say that the US has nuclear weapons in Turkey so Armenia should have some nukes stored there until they are withdrawn...

Azerbaijan again attacked sovereign Armenia. 3 KIA so far.

To be clear I liked this post because you are sharing information with the forum.

Obviously I do not like that there is fighting between your two countries... maybe Russia should deliver some Russian made Iranian drones to Armenia...

Armenian wrote:Garry, Let’s forget NKR for a second if you don’t mind.

Azerbaijan attacked Armenia 2 weeks ago, killed 207 soldiers, 3 civillians and advanced 7.5 km deep into Armenia’s soverign terretory.

Now can you please answer this question. Armenia has a defance pact signed with Russia in 1997 according to which Russia should defend Armenia.

Armenia formally requested military help from Russia right after the attack. Forget about help Russia didn’t even condemn the attack.

Now, let be direct. Should Russia help or no? That’s a very simple question that needs a simple answer.

Ukraine has done 7 mobilizations so far.
Russia is mobilizing 300,000

Azerbaijan attacks Nagorno-Karabagh in 2020 ---- Pashinyan does not order a general mobilization
Azerbaijan attacks Armenia in 2022 -----Pashinyan does not order a general mobilization
.
.
.
Instead, he wants Russia/CSTO to fight for Armenia.
He wants young Russian soldiers to spill their blood while Armenian young men watch the conflict on YouTube in Yerevan cafes and restaurants.

The Armenians of 1990-1994 were much better than the Armenians of 2020-2022.
They endured: the cold, the lack of electricity, fuel, jobs. The fought against all odds and won.

Pashinyan should order a general mobilization, fight back with al means and then ask for outside help.
All he does is play politics, play one side against the other and blame all his mistakes on others.

Pashinyan, his entourage and supporters are demolishing your country piece by piece.

Armenians should help themselves first. Here is what they should do:
- Put Pashinyan in jail for treason
- Stop playing East vs West
- Mobilize the population (and the large Armenian diaspora)
- Fight back the Azeris with all means (including airforce, Iskanders etc)

Help will be on the way if the above is done.

caveat emptor wrote:

ALAMO wrote:Azeris are a much more reliable partner for Russkie like always. They just do business, can be persuaded to anything that brings mutual benefits, and don't cry like babies.

This is wrong. Aside from buying some weapons,  Azerbaijan is firmly in Turkish camp and, at best, neutral to Russia. I would say definitely has much worse relation with Russia than Kazakhstan does and those are not exactly blooming. Major difference btw Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan is that latter don't have any Russians living in the country as they were mostly expelled or made to move out at the beginning of '90s, so that is not a point of possible discontent anymore.
As for Russian relationship with Armenia, realtionship didn't begin or end with Pashinyan. There are historic ties and very strong Armenian diaspora in Russia. 
It would be extremely shortsighted to base political decisions on short time events.

Agree with everything except that there are Russians living in Baku. There was anti-Russian nationalism in the 90s but milder compared to most of the Caucasus. Mostly it was Armenians that were targetted.

As for Azerbaijan yes. Its a good business partner and both Russia and Azerbaijan do not want their relations to be held hostage over Karabakh. But they are not a Russian ally or friendly country; at best they are neutral.
They have never been part of the CSTO or the Eurasian Economic Union. They have been part of that anti-Russian grouping along with Ukraine and Georgia that the EU sponsored, related as well to the now defunct Nabucco pipeline project.
The pipeline now built to Georgia has been a major point of contention, and one way Armenia/Russia were able to pressure Aliyev and the Turks was by targeting the pipeline from Karabakh.
It was in fact the Russian division in Armenia that helped break Azeri defences in the early 90s in the Lachin corridor, enabling the Armenians to reinforce the insurgents in Karabakh and ultimately kick the Azeris out in the first place.
This was after the ultra-nationalist coup in Baku that brought to power a pro-NATO pan-Turkist that hated Russia so much that he refused to speak the language in his conversation with Russian diplomats, and that openly hinted at supporting separatism in Russia. Granted that guy didn't last long, and the Aliyevs were/are a lot smarter, but it does go to show what side Azerbaijan was on.

Now the EU has come running to Azerbaijan again and the later have agreed to increase oil supplies. If Kazakhstan or Turkmenistan manage to lay a pipeline under the Caspian then Azerbaijan can supply that to Europe too. Even if not, they can achieve the same thing through LNG terminals on the Caspian.
Which is reasonable enough, that's just Azerbaijan following its own interests.
But with Armenia Russia has mutual interests. With Azerbaijan - not so much.

India to send missiles, rockets, ammunition worth US$250 million to Armenia

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/arming-armenia-india-to-export-missiles-rockets-and-ammunition/articleshow/94518414.cms?from=mdr

Graphic TG video guys. Azerbaijani rats executing Armenian POWs point blank.

The hatred that I feel for these cockroaches is unrivalled.

https://t.me/TG301AD/4916

Nikol Pashinyan a day or two ago:

"We have a plan to withdraw from the CSTO by the end of February 2023 if Russia and other members of the organization fail to fulfill their allied obligations by then."

Nikol Pashinyan

But with Armenia Russia has mutual interests. With Azerbaijan - not so much.

Russia is not fighting the cold war any more and needs to get these two countries talking rather than fighting... but it sounds like Pashinyan wants to exit the CSTO agreement which will mean it is not Russias problem any more.

Armenia will have to find its own solutions to its own problems... I wonder what promises Pelosi whispered to them... the fact that the democrats might lose a lot of power in the upcoming elections in the US she can promise the world because Biden wont get reelected... ask the Afghans about how the Americans are with their allies.

India to send missiles, rockets, ammunition worth US$250 million to Armenia

Wonder if that means they want to fight or are they just going to pass that equipment on to Ukraine as per some agreement with Pelosi for which Pashy makes a nice tidy nest egg in the foreign bank of his choice.

Armenian wrote:Azerbaijan again attacked sovereign Armenia. 3 KIA so far.

Bro, you'll have to ride this one by yourself. Russia is stuck in Ukraine and needs to clean up its own house, as well

GarryB wrote:Wonder if that means they want to fight or are they just going to pass that equipment on to Ukraine as per some agreement with Pelosi for which Pashy makes a nice tidy nest egg in the foreign bank of his choice.

Why does India need to sell MBRL to Ukraine when they already have access to an unlimited supply of HIMARS and ATACMS missile.

@Spriter99880
Baku is accumulating heavy military equipment near the Lachin corridor.(between Armenia and Nagorno Karabakh)

Why does India need to sell MBRL to Ukraine when they already have access to an unlimited supply of HIMARS and ATACMS missile.

This hasn't aged well.

Because 250 million buys you a lot of Russian rockets and shells, but buys about 30 American rockets or shells... if you can get any that is...

Funny the US going apeshit over the idea that China or India or North Korea might supply Russian with weapons or ammo, yet it scours the globe looking for countries to sell them Soviet arms and ammo that they can pass on to Kiev.

Baku is accumulating heavy military equipment near the Lachin corridor.(between Armenia and Nagorno Karabakh)

It says heavy but shows old BTRs in the photo...

If Russia has a choice between the 2, then I think its time they gave the kebab shop twats in Baku a good hiding.
And Terdogan really doesn't understand the meaning of the phrase "knowing his place".
Esp given that under the Americans and without Russia's help he would have been well and truly dead after the coup attempt.
Terdogan is an ungrateful little snake.

The Armenian Republic of the Russian Federation would make perfect sense to solve all this.
And perhaps Azerbaijan can be "de Communised" if it doesn't get the message.

Give Azerbaijan an ultimatum stop this nonsense both sides agree to resolve the entire issue once and for all, or the other option as u mentioned Armenia becomes a Republic of Russian Federation. Because what is apparent is any open long standing issues around the globe the USA likes to meddle, by having these issues remain unresolved gives USA options if one project fails it just moves on to the next, USA won't stop.

I suspect after the Ukrainian war is done and dusted and the obvious victory for Russia ex Soviet countries may well stop any progress/close relations towards western countries. I always had this feeling some ex Soviet countries would be testing the water towards western countries as it saw Russia as a bit soft or not serious enough to take action. Uzbekistan tried and it failed, Kazakhstan clearly is trying but completely forgot that Putin saved his skin not so long ago. But after the Ukrainian war I seriously think they will have second thoughts about any western relations that could be seen as unfavorable moves by Russia.

I think it's time Russia made a proper security alliance with ex Soviet countries with a simple yes or no your in or your out no sitting on the fence, and if your in you put an effort into it, if your out then face the consequences. And I think the same should happen on an economic alliance. Just my 10 pence worth lol

I may be wrong but I think Armenia's problems started when it had a pro American leader, evidently due to being payrolled.

Strange given that Armenia was a key member of the Eurasian Union and the CSTO military alliance.
Russia's solution in the Ukraine is to just let freed regions join Russia for the first time in over 100 years.


The problem is that if countries are too "free" ie open to corruption by the US, they will end up in a Ukraine or Armenia situation.
So the prevention is either join Russia OR have a strongman as leader OR have an enhanced Eurasian Union akin to the EU.

I'm not sure which ones Russia and the rest of the CIS will choose for some places.
Altho I think as much of the Ukraine as possible, plus Belarus definitely should rejoin Russia.
Perhaps Kazakstan (or the Northern part of it) would be the next most important part.

Although Putin openly admitted that the fall of the Soviet Union was a tragedy I still don't believe that he wants to re-create the Soviet Union. I think he's happy if ex Soviet countries remain economic trading partners and cooperate on security concerns such as terrorism and intelligence sharing, and obviously don't get to friendly with western nations if all these are met then those ex Soviet countries can quite happily enjoy independence and do what they please. However if they don't and start allowing western governments influence, meddling, allowing bio labs, and talks about joining NATO then I think that puts Putin/Russia in a very awkward position and leaves them really no choice but to intervene and take drastic measures before the wests project gets to completion, Because once completed there is no going back. And Putin/Russia needs to protect itself and part of that unfortunately is creating a buffer and friendly nations on its borders. Like people on here and various experts around the globe have said there is no way the USA/UK would allow Russia to have hostile nations on their borders.

Armenians are apparently showing their true colors after Rybar pointed out Pashinyans actions are anti Russian and anti Armenian.

ALAMO wrote:Suprised by an inch?

No. Armenians on here like to make excuses foe their shit leader all the time so no, not surprised at all

sepheronx wrote:Armenians are apparently showing their true colors after Rybar pointed out Pashinyans actions are anti Russian and anti Armenian.

They don't seem to understand that the only force keeping Azerbaijan and Turkey from annexing the entire country and turning them into a Turkish province is Russia (and Iran to a lesser degree) but there's nobody they disrespect and blame their problems on more than Russia. Personally, I'd be glad for EU/US stooge Pashiyan to kick Russian forces out the country so Turkey can finish what it started over a century ago, useless people.

Sometimes the best way to punish a child is to give them exactly what they want, but it is cruel for entire countries.

When I started posting on this forum several Russian members were convinced that Europe was Russias future and that China was dangerous and could not be trusted...

Azerbaijan is not going to stop until they have ever square centimeter of Nagorno-Karabakh under their control. Just how it is. And after they accomplish that, they might start eyeing Armenia's own territories such as the Zangizur region that divides Azerbaijan from Turkey.

And the Russian peacekeeper mandate ends in 2025. The Armenian leadership is already looking towards the Europeans/NATO to replace them and Pashinyan has only manipulated the situation to serve that goal.

Russia's policies in the region now as over the last 20 years are mercenary and short-sighted and IMO doomed to fail.

Reports of food shortages in Nagorno Karabakh. Has Putin decided to hell with Armenia?

It is not Russias job to save everyone, especially those that choose not to be saved.

I remember watching a video a long time ago of a woman who was drowning... well she was essentially drowned and this guy pulled her out of the water and did CPR for a minute or two and saved her life... she was not breathing and completely unconscious... and when interviewed she was upset because he did not ask permission to give her mouth to mouth.

Sometimes people and countries are not grateful for your help...

More recently there was a case where a man was punching a pregnant woman and a guy intervened and the guy shot him. When the police arrived the woman said the man that came to help her and was shot attacked her and the man who punched her and shot the guy shot him in self defence. The puncher and shooter was the womans boyfriend. Fortunately eye witnesses at the scene put the police right...

The real lesson is that sometimes the people you save or try to save are just not worth the risk... women will complain if a man opens the door for them, saying they can get it themselves and are not weak and useless... but if someone steals her purse they look at you and want to know what you are going to do about it... they all just watched...

Careful what you wish for.

Of course it is important to separate countries from people... just because Kiev is run by nazis from the US and EU does not mean the people of the country should all be brutally murdered, yet it is ironically HATO training and tactics that is getting them murdered because the Russians are not idiots and know how to use mines and air power and artillery and defensive lines to wear down enemy forces.

Maybe Russia should host an open vote, and ask the people if: do they want Russia to stay and protect the land or leave?

Do in both Armenia and in Karabakh. If they vote to leave, Russia should leave. And just reinforce their borders to the south and upgrade around allied states. Let Armenia and Armenians face the consequences and they can't blame Russia because they voted them to leave.