The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

Werewolf wrote:

Sure whatever you consider a suck-sess.

TheGeorgian wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

Sure whatever you consider a suck-sess.

See it as you want, but it's simply absurd and funny when someone tries to mock on your mistakes, when he himself has an ugly past and a giant sceleton in his closet. How much of undisclosed secret little Georgia might possibly have compared to you .... ? anyhow, I'm tired of this constant self justifications and accusations battle. History shows you the facts and there is nothing more to say. It's just redicilous.

TheGeorgian wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

Sure whatever you consider a suck-sess.

See it as you want, but it's simply absurd and funny when someone tries to mock on your mistakes, when he himself has an ugly past and a giant sceleton in his closet. How much of undisclosed secret little Georgia might possibly have compared to you .... ? anyhow, I'm tired of this constant self justifications and accusations battle. History shows you the facts and there is nothing more to say. It's just redicilous.

Werewolf wrote:
You really asking me as a person?

.... i will keep mentioning it till rest of time so you get a feeling how it feels to be german getting poked with shit that happened long before i was even born, did not even have any ancestors who committed anything.[/b]

Well you on the other hand you at least are in the timeline and you are not as disaproving of the doing as you should be.

Last week, Ukrainian Prime Minister Yatsenyuk pushed a bill through the Verkhovna Rada that would see his country’s gas transportation system sold off to a group of international investors. The provisions of the law would permit the transit of natural gas to be blocked. This decision may hurt the fragile industrial recovery in Germany and finish off Ukraine’s potential as a gas transit route to Europe.

Germany, which is the industrial heart of the European Union and a major creditor for its debtor nations, is facing the challenge of the double-edged consequences of its inverted Ostpolitik as it pertains to the trade in natural gas. Even the temporary transit risks ensuing from Kiev’s decision to block the pipeline may cause a business slump.

The Nobel laureate Joseph Stiglitz offered an unnerving forecast for the German economy. The Columbia University professor, speaking at the conference in the southern German city of Lindau, described economic growth in the Eurozone as “sluggish.” The German economy in particular failed to grow during the second quarter, threatening the EU’s fragile industrial recovery.

In the years to come, coping with Kiev’s attempts to jeopardize the gas-transit system and cut off Europe from its quintessential energy source in the east could become a real headache for Germany’s foreign minister, Frank-Walter Steinmeier. The most vivid example of Ukraine’s self-destructive policy that has the potential to affect European taxpayers is the recent sale of its gas transportation system.

The imminent agreement, with many conflicting political overtones, will allow sales of 49 percent of Ukraine’s gas transportation system to a cobbled-together coalition of foreign shareholders.

First, the non-transparent deal -- sponsored by high-ranking government officials -- is a textbook case of restrictive practices that violate World Trade Organization rules. Secondly, the pipeline itself is anything but an attractive offer.

The major players in the European energy market are very well aware of the quality of the asset. They know that the pipeline is sorely in need of repair and is dependent on gas from a third party. According to some provisions of the law, the transit of natural gas through Ukraine can be blocked. If it really happens, the pipeline’s price will immediately plummet to $2 to $3 billion.

Who would buy a broken-down car that can only run using your neighbor’s gas?

That’s why, in July, Prime Minister Yatsenyuk was so interested in pushing the bill through the Verkhovna Rada that he threatened deputies with his resignation. Last week Mr. Yatsenyuk finally succeeded in passing the buck.

For many years, Ukraine has argued that its gas transportation system is an asset of national importance that wasn’t for sale. But the Euromaidan protests changed everything. Ukraine’s new media reported that Chevron wants to buy into the country’s transit company. While the official representatives of the corporation declined to comment on the “rumors,” last year Chevron co-sponsored a conference, “Ukraine in Washington 2013,” which starred the U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland. Her deep involvement in Ukrainian politics, along with her unorthodox but honest vision of the EU, is generally well known.

In passing the new law, government officials in Kiev and the Verkhovna Rada (now dissolved) ignored the fact that the majority of business-savvy Ukrainian voters would never approve the all-Ukrainian referendum on the summertime sale of the country’s last reasonably valuable asset. After all, the industrial region of Donbass has been irrevocably lost and the country needs to collect taxes.

The situation surrounding the pipeline deal is reminiscent of the tactics of the United Fruit Company in the mid and late 1960s. Radically right-wing governments were installed in Central and Latin America and that corporation gained control over those countries’ main export, bananas.

In Eastern Europe, many countries are not ready to follow Ukraine’s footsteps and renounce energy sovereignty. It’s no longer fashionable to be a banana republic. The deep-seated crisis in Ukraine and the success story of Nord Stream have encouraged other EU countries, such as Hungary, to diversify their natural-gas supply routes. Hungary’s secretary of state for public diplomacy and relations, Zoltán Kovács, recently quoted a statement from his country’s prime minister, Viktor Orbán: “No one can question our sovereign right to guarantee our natural gas supplies.” The leaders in Budapest are sure that no economic recovery is possible in Germany and EU without long-term natural-gas contracts. All EU members will benefit from stable regional trade patterns.

Events in Ukraine should not dominate the agenda of the whole continent. That would simply be dangerous. It has already become a cliché to compare the Ukrainian crisis with the Spanish Civil War. A couple of years ago, the total “Ukrainization” of EU policy would have been perceived as a bad joke. Today 300,000 jobs are at stake in Germany and it is high time for Berlin to step in and prevent the nationalist frenzy in Kiev from ruining decades of successful business cooperation. Heiko Lohmann, a German natural-gas expert, believes that a fundamental prerequisite for normalization is the continuity of energy relations.

Viewed from this perspective, Hungary’s position looks much more “pro-European.” Interestingly, the EU’s official energy policy papers (the European Ten-Year Network Development Plan (TYNDP 2011-2020) and Energy Infrastructure Priorities for 2020 and Beyond) contradict the hardline political statements of the acting members of the European Commission. According to the published data, Brussels expects to increase natural gas imports from Russia up to 40 percent. Time will tell whether Ukraine’s problem-plagued gas transportation system will play any role in these plans.

onwiththewar wrote:
Why you guys care so much about how our enemies think??

onwiththewar wrote:
So there have been 2 days since this "Russian Invasion" and there had been no follow ups, no more news updates. Main stream media stopped talking about it, common sense says if this is true, army of Russia would have been all over Ukraine by now. So at least this "Invasion" is either fabricated or not a full scale one.

onwiththewar wrote:
Of courses little girls will cry and bitch, "You Russians have invaded Ukraine!" But usually men's way in solving this problem is picking up arm and fight it out. Every time I see these handful of people masturbate over these "satellite images" or the BTR-82s over and over again, I just feel embarrassed for their manhood.

onwiththewar wrote:
Oh, one last thing to our Dutch friend who keeps mentioning hitler, check this out dude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Bernhard_of_Lippe-Biesterfeld#Attitudes_to_Nazi_Germany

"Prince Bernhard of Lippe-Biesterfeld ... members of his family who were enthusiastic Nazis ..." Epic Fail LMAO

FlyingDuchMan is a good comedian.

TR1 wrote:

ali.a.r wrote:Wow. This thread is really going to sh*t. TR1, can you provide some links for the T-72s and BTR-82s you mentioned? Ive been trying to get the full story for hours. Any media pro-Russian obviously wont have any, and the anti-Russian ones are mostly photos from exercises and whatnot, from well within Russia.

This thread has been shit from the start, don't kid yourself.

Regarding the vehicles, T-72s have been all over the place. Check it out, Russian sources:

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/967073.html
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/957262.html

And this great database:

http://lostarmour.info/spoils/

You can check trophies, and losses sections. Of course many of the trophies are from...errr...certain foreign sources.
But either way, T-72s suddenly abound.

TR1 wrote:Russian military has to get authorization and has to notify Ukrainians of incoming troops, even if they are under troop limits. They can't just cross in without any notification, for obvious mundane reasons during peacetime.

This argument is so asinine it hurts. Yes, transfer of a bunch of Tigrs, Mi-35s, who then blockaded Ukranian military bases is all legal and good, and a proper way to behave.

Rofl.

mack8 wrote:There are reports that another aircraft was shot down, any further info? Thanks.

TheGeorgian wrote:

About Putin.

I'd rather have him as Russia's president than any of the morons in the Russian goverment. Some of them would have already suggested preemtive strike against Europe, no doubt. Hotheaded idiots. Who knows what they'd do if some of them just drank one or two GLASSES Vodka too much .... ? Putin is the only reason why there is no WW3.

Flyingdutchman wrote:Is this neo-nazi crap still going on...
Nothing personal mike

TR1 wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

Flyingdutchman wrote:In Crimea before the elections papers were found that were already fill in…

According to Western media... That went out of it's way to edit out the certain key fact in their reports, that the Crimean referendum to join Russia has been around since...*drum roll* all the back in 1992, predating Putin's presidency by 7-8 years...

Like the alleged invasion of Crimea with thousand russian troops, purposely ignoring the fact that russia can have 25.000 troops on crimea and they had around 18.000 troops at maximum at the point before referendum.

And that Russian troops were legally allowed to be stationed in Crimea since 1997. Funny how the "military invasion" of Crimea didn't include rocket artillery shelling, fighter jet sorties carrying out bombing missions, you know...like the normal violence that follows military invasions.

Russian military has to get authorization and has to notify Ukrainians of incoming troops, even if they are under troop limits. They can't just cross in without any notification, for obvious mundane reasons during peacetime.

This argument is so asinine it hurts. Yes, transfer of a bunch of Tigrs, Mi-35s, who then blockaded Ukranian military bases is all legal and good, and a proper way to behave.

Rofl.

TR1 wrote:

gregoire wrote:As I see it we are witnessing history now. The world is changing and it will never be the same again.

You are right. Everyone small bordering Russia will seek NATO membership desperately.

Mike E wrote:

TR1 wrote:

gregoire wrote:As I see it we are witnessing history now. The world is changing and it will never be the same again.

You are right. Everyone small bordering Russia will seek NATO membership desperately.

Keep drinking TR1, but remember not to become addicted!

Why would anyone want to become a member of NATO? So they can be internally corrupted?

Fl Python wrote: Not to be confused with the annexation of the Crimea, which was a questionable (IMO) political decision, the consequences of which are as yet unknown.

Hannibal Barca wrote:Our nazi friendly trolls will probably commit suicide looking this map. Screw them, they are not even good as clowns anymore.

Petro007 wrote:Look at that other guy's clothing. It seems that the photo was made in october-november or march-april. That's not how people dress in summer (temperatures in Ukraine are still around 20-25 degrees Celsius most of the time)

That conference took place 2 days ago and Strelkov did not show up even though it was reported that he would. Probably dead now.

Moscow doesn't want or intend to wade into any "large-scale conflicts," Putin insisted at a youth forum, state-run Itar-Tass reported. A few breaths later, he made the point that Russia is "strengthening our nuclear deterrence forces and our armed forces," making them more efficient and modernized.
"I want to remind you that Russia is one of the most powerful nuclear nations," the President said. "This is a reality, not just words." He later warned, "We must always be ready to repel any aggression against Russia and (potential enemies) should be aware .. it is better not to come against Russia as regards a possible armed conflict." .