The Situation in the Ukraine. #8

sepheronx wrote:The question I have is, why bother leaving the equipment behind intact?  For either side?  Are they that much in a hurry to run instead of rigging the equipment or quickly cause enough damage (destroying optics, etc) so it would be useless for the opposing force to use it?

Well seps and UA army seem to act unprofessionally from time to time. Russians in Georgia burned their BMDs and even captured tanks.

sepheronx wrote:The question I have is, why bother leaving the equipment behind intact?  For either side?  Are they that much in a hurry to run instead of rigging the equipment or quickly cause enough damage (destroying optics, etc) so it would be useless for the opposing force to use it?

lack of information followed by rumors that ignite panic when the enemy is surrounding you. When you're in panic, you rout and couldn't care less about that metal coffin.

In the video I've posted, that UA unit simply accepted the corridor offer and left it's stuff intact like the seps demanded it. It turns out the seps had them surrounded with far less troops and no tanks at all, but it worked. Psychological warfare.

TheGeorgian wrote:

sepheronx wrote:The question I have is, why bother leaving the equipment behind intact?  For either side?  Are they that much in a hurry to run instead of rigging the equipment or quickly cause enough damage (destroying optics, etc) so it would be useless for the opposing force to use it?

lack of information followed by rumors that ignite panic when the enemy is surrounding you. When you're in panic, you rout and couldn't care less about that metal coffin.

In the video I've posted, that UA unit simply accepted the corridor offer and left it's stuff intact like the seps demanded it. It turns out the seps had them surrounded with far less troops and no tanks at all, but it worked. Psychological warfare.

First saying that this is russian T-72BM(B3) and now calling an undamaged tank a metal coffin.
What do you think, who is faster and safer when trying to flee from an ecirclement, an unarmed tank crew on foot that can run about 15km/h max. or an undamaged, armed tank with TIS that could actually protect the crew from incoming projectiles?

Not really eloberated thought process to why the tank is abondoned and undamaged.

The seps work with asymmetrical warfare because that is the best you can do when you have low number of manpower at specific locations and or lack necessary vehicles and ammunition. Asymmetrical warfare was also used in Afghanistan war by Soviet VDV troops against Taliban convoys to lower their losses and force taliban to change their tactics and routes.

So far i need more than one sides claims about this single tank, when Russia could give dozens over dozens T-64BV models from Crimea which are almost useless for russia anyway.

Werewolf wrote:
First saying that this is russian T-72BM(B3) and now calling an undamaged tank a metal coffin.
What do you think, who is faster and safer when trying to flee from an ecirclement, an unarmed tank crew on foot that can run about 15km/h max. or an undamaged, armed tank with TIS that could actually protect the crew from incoming projectiles?

Not really eloberated thought process to why the tank is abondoned and undamaged.

The seps work with asymmetrical warfare because that is the best you can do when you have low number of manpower at specific locations and or lack necessary vehicles and ammunition. Asymmetrical warfare was also used in Afghanistan war by Soviet VDV troops against Taliban convoys to lower their losses and force taliban to change their tactics and routes.

So far i need more than one sides claims about this single tank, when Russia could give dozens over dozens T-64BV models from Crimea which are almost useless for russia anyway.

Hhhhh. This man really makes my head hurt.

First of all. It IS a friggin T-72B3 ( fine ! if not BM ). Secondly. Why don't you at least think first before replying ? I didn't say "metal coffin" to degrade Russian army or it's tanks. I said it because that's what a soldier in panic thinks when he is surrounded and fears to be hit by some ATGM or artillery like his comrades shown in the pictures of destroyed UA tank columns. Those units were not even surrounded. This one was. We don't even know the exact circumstances. Maybe they didn't have enough fuel, ammo etc. But as I already wrote, the factual circumstances are that the rebels offered them a corridor after they surrounded them and they demanded that the UA unit leaves it's equipment and can walk back home without being shelled. They chose to give in to the demands because they were completly cut off and what not other problems they may have had.

TheGeorgian wrote:
Hhhhh. This man really makes my head hurt.

First of all. It IS a friggin T-72B3 ( fine ! if not BM ). Secondly. Why don't you at least think first before replying ? I didn't say "metal coffin" to degrade Russian army or it's tanks. I said it because that's what a soldier in panic thinks when he is surrounded and fears to be hit by some ATGM or artillery like his comrades shown in the pictures of destroyed UA tank columns.

So, you when you panic would rather jump out of an undamaged tank in somehow knowledge of Artillery shelling which a tank can take unless it is direct hit unlike your fleshy human body which have tendencies of desintegration when artillery fire is landing nearby or in case of ATGM why not use Smoke screen since this technology is one of the basics on every tank since decades, or when really panic why not driving away.

You are right that we don't know the circumstances and i would prefer to know them, but you do realize after that, that your very own guesses are not that great thought out before writing them down?

Werewolf wrote:
So, you when you panic would rather jump out of an undamaged tank in somehow knowledge of Artillery shelling which a tank can take unless it is direct hit unlike your fleshy human body which have tendencies of desintegration when artillery fire is landing nearby or in case of ATGM why not use Smoke screen since this technology is one of the basics on every tank since decades, or when really panic why not driving away.

You are right that we don't know the circumstances and i would prefer to know them, but you do realize after that, that your very own guesses are not that great thought out before writing them down?

No I wouldn't. But we are talking about UA here. If I was that unit commander I would have tried to break out and kill as many enemies as I could while retreating. Staying and fighting in the corridor would be risky and useless because you are completly surrounded and there are no reinforcements coming. But again, we are talking about UA and they have no combat awareness, low discipline, low moral, no kind of intel and are completly on their own. So yea, they paniced and left all their stuff behind because the rebels gave them a chance to get out of there alive. I've explained it in the rest of my comment that you for whatever reason didn't bother to include, making your reply absolutely pointless. You are talking to me like it did never happen. Here you got it. Happened. Psychological warfare. Ever heard of it ? especialy effective against ineffective army.

TheGeorgian wrote:

Werewolf wrote:
First saying that this is russian T-72BM(B3) and now calling an undamaged tank a metal coffin.
What do you think, who is faster and safer when trying to flee from an ecirclement, an unarmed tank crew on foot that can run about 15km/h max. or an undamaged, armed tank with TIS that could actually protect the crew from incoming projectiles?

Not really elaborated thought process to why the tank is abandoned and undamaged.

The seps work with asymmetrical warfare because that is the best you can do when you have low number of manpower at specific locations and or lack necessary vehicles and ammunition. Asymmetrical warfare was also used in Afghanistan war by Soviet VDV troops against Taliban convoys to lower their losses and force taliban to change their tactics and routes.

So far i need more than one sides claims about this single tank, when Russia could give dozens over dozens T-64BV models from Crimea which are almost useless for russia anyway.

Hhhhh. This man really makes my head hurt.

First of all. It IS a friggin T-72B3 ( fine ! if not BM ). Secondly. Why don't you at least think first before replying ? I didn't say "metal coffin" to degrade Russian army or it's tanks. I said it because that's what a soldier in panic thinks when he is surrounded and fears to be hit by some ATGM or artillery like his comrades shown in the pictures of destroyed UA tank columns..

Dude what part of the tank being in Ukraine cannot be proved, you don't understand? Is there a sign there that say " you are in Ukraine" ?  No.. Is just a photo of a T-72b3.. that could be from any exercise of Russia with CSTO in any former soviet republic.. yes is a tank T-72b3.. so ?  i can find you many more photos of those tanks.. too.. can that proof anything? no.. you can;t know where the tanks was..

Ok now in other news..
Things are heating now between Kiev and Russia..

Breaking news..

- Hysteria  in #Ukraine as its coastal defence ship gets hit - initial reports claim by shore artillery,next claimed  Russia airforce #cdnpoli



- BREAKING: a number of #Poland soldiers (mercenaries?) have been captured at #Donetsk airport by NAF. #cdnpoli #Ukraine

UNCONFIRMED: #Ukraine claims #Russia airforce has struck #Ukraine artillery units at #Schastya. #cdnpoli

BREAKING CONFIRMED: 2 #Ukraine ships destroyed off the coast of #Mauriupol while firing on NAF positions at #Novoazovsk #cdnpoli

apparently Self defenses forces capture Donetsk Airport and find Polish mercenaries there..  Make no mistake.. the ukie forces in the airport in Donetsk are war criminals.. they were shelling for months Donetsk cities and they have the blood of many civilians in their hand.. Including women and children and destruction of hospitals ,schools. They need to be arrested and sent to Russia ,to find them a nice place in Siberia prison.

Also Kiev claim Russian airforce attacked Ukraine artillery inside Ukraine. and if that wasn't enough Kiev says Russia sink 2 Ukraine coastal boat. Things are heating like nothing. Next 48 hours will be the longest ever
we could see a major escalation and Russia now attacking Directly if the claims are true.

Vann7, say what you want but FACT is it's a Russian made T-72B3 / BM. Now where this was taken etc is a different topic, but this is 100% A Russian modification T-72B3/BM. Can we please close the debate about this obvious FACT already please ?  

Destruction of what is claimed an Ukrainian Sea Guard vessel by supposedly Russian aircraft

Werewolf wrote:

TheGeorgian wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

TheGeorgian wrote:An abandoned T-72BM with the white identification stripes in Ilovaisk, also seen in some footage taken by Chechen fighters. So Russia has started to deliver more advanced hardware to the sepratists and also more volunteers arriving from Russia...

Dude how in hell you know that is ukraine? guess what ? You don't know.. that photo proof nothing..
It will be very easy for Holywood to make a T-72 tank in plastic and show chechens rebels inside of it. LOL

Ukrainian army uses T-72M, M1, MP, AM, AV, B, Bulats ( AG, AMG ) .... and E .... and BMT-72. They got a lot of their own neet upgrades  
However, the T-72BM is a trademark Russian T-72 modification. That's how I know.

In the video I've posted, you see them Chechen volunteers driving those tanks. It's a bit older footage, but seriously, what else you want to see ? Putin's portrait painted on it ?

Rebels were receiving arms nonstop. Why is it surprising now, that they also receive top notch Russian military hardware ? only tanks I haven't seen so far are T-80s and T-90s.

So far the only crap i have heared from TR1,You and Flyingdutchman that all the arms the rebels have comes from Russia without even giving a second to think that those weapons could come from the dozens of military bases in the regions and that entire military bases surrendered to rebels.
This is not a clearified tank mod and after capturing the "ultimate proof" they only make such a low number of footage and pictures, usually ukropy army and the sparetime clowns of fascist brigades love to pose and make videos how great they are, not to much right now.

Like by tank experts pointed out this is an unclear mod.

First of all, you brick, I never said ALL of the arms the rebels have came from Russia.

Second, you have to be a blind ignoramus to claim this is UNCLEAR. This is 100%, PURE BONAFIDE T-72B3. And YES, Otvaga2004 forums agree on it. The discussion you posted is regarding a different tank altogether.

TheGeorgian wrote:Vann7, say what you want but FACT is it's a Russian made T-72B3 / BM. Now where this was taken etc is a different topic, but this is 100% A Russian modification T-72B3/BM. Can we please close the debate about this obvious FACT already please ?  

Destruction of what is claimed an Ukrainian Sea Guard vessel by supposedly Russian aircraft

It is not 100% clear that is the whole point of the discussion of experts, since it has several contradictions of equipment and the circumstances of the tanks condition.

Also you talk about "psychological warfare" and very low moral of UA army at the same time we were talking about the aledged T-72B3 being in hands of REBELS that you argued paniced and abondoned tank and run away. You should re-read your last 2 posts you confusing yourself here.

Vann7 wrote:

TheGeorgian wrote:

Werewolf wrote:
Read the pages before you fool.

Then B3. I've read it now you tool. Let's see if it's true or not. It's not like pro-Russian claims are any more valid and no dramatic denial proves, there's something on with that story. Russians neither denying nor confirming anything. So either way, separatists are getting all the stuff they need for a full out war.

Even if is a Russian tank.. and not a toy ,or photoshop.. there is nothing that indicates is a photo in Ukraine.. it could be Belarus or Any place in RUssia.. How do you know the place is Ukraine?  The part that made it very doubtful
was the stupid chechen.. Russia will never give an expensive tank to a mercenary chechen even if they said he was going to help. If Russia was going to supply a T-72BM tank to Ukraine they will have given it to a Veteran soldier of the Russian armed forces. That chechen doesn't look like have the IQ to drive a tank.

And if that wasn't enough is claimed it was "abandoned".  You don't abandon tanks in perfect conditions ,doesn't look like was disabled . If the tank was out of fuel ,they could have easily pulled it from another tank. I don't think Russia will give an expensive tank to a chechen and later leave it abandoned in Ukraine.

it could be real.. but so far looks like staged.. ie.. a fake.

Yes, yes, we all know true slavic genius Nobel Prize winning Russians are needed to drive T-72s. The Russian soul is needed to fuse with the Machine Spirit of this highly advanced and not made-for-retards to drive mass produced vehicle.

There have been plenty of T-64s abandoned by the Ukrainians in the fighting. If you think it is not possible for the separatists to do the same, you are high.

TR1 wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

TheGeorgian wrote:

Werewolf wrote:
Read the pages before you fool.

Then B3. I've read it now you tool. Let's see if it's true or not. It's not like pro-Russian claims are any more valid and no dramatic denial proves, there's something on with that story. Russians neither denying nor confirming anything. So either way, separatists are getting all the stuff they need for a full out war.

Even if is a Russian tank.. and not a toy ,or photoshop.. there is nothing that indicates is a photo in Ukraine.. it could be Belarus or Any place in RUssia.. How do you know the place is Ukraine?  The part that made it very doubtful
was the stupid chechen.. Russia will never give an expensive tank to a mercenary chechen even if they said he was going to help. If Russia was going to supply a T-72BM tank to Ukraine they will have given it to a Veteran soldier of the Russian armed forces. That chechen doesn't look like have the IQ to drive a tank.

And if that wasn't enough is claimed it was "abandoned".  You don't abandon tanks in perfect conditions ,doesn't look like was disabled . If the tank was out of fuel ,they could have easily pulled it from another tank. I don't think Russia will give an expensive tank to a chechen and later leave it abandoned in Ukraine.

it could be real.. but so far looks like staged.. ie.. a fake.

Yes, yes, we all know true slavic genius Nobel Prize winning Russians are needed to drive T-72s. The Russian soul is needed to fuse with the Machine Spirit of this highly advanced and not made-for-retards to drive mass produced vehicle.

There have been plenty of T-64s abandoned by the Ukrainians in the fighting. If you think it is not possible for the separatists to do the same, you are high.

Sometimes i have the feeling everyone on this forum is high.

Werewolf wrote:

TheGeorgian wrote:Vann7, say what you want but FACT is it's a Russian made T-72B3 / BM. Now where this was taken etc is a different topic, but this is 100% A Russian modification T-72B3/BM. Can we please close the debate about this obvious FACT already please ?  

Destruction of what is claimed an Ukrainian Sea Guard vessel by supposedly Russian aircraft

It is not 100% clear that is the whole point of the discussion of experts, since it has several contradictions of equipment and the circumstances of the tanks condition.

I don't understand what's so unclear about that picture .... !
It has all the characteristics of the T-72B3. Turret looks exactly like the modification is supposed to be, from top to bottom. The rest is also as perfect as the blueprints suggest it. So how is this not a B3 ? maybe slightly variated, but like 0.1% slightly. They are not 100% sure, but what, 99% ?? are you seriously suggesting there might be a possibility that the Ukrainians quickly put togheter their own perfect B3 mockup just for propaganda purpose .... ?

TheGeorgian wrote:Vann7, say what you want but FACT is it's a Russian made T-72B3 / BM. Now where this was taken etc is a different topic, but this is 100% A Russian modification T-72B3/BM. Can we please close the debate about this obvious FACT already please ?  

Destruction of what is claimed an Ukrainian Sea Guard vessel by supposedly Russian aircraft

No aircraft in the video. Only smoke trails of ATGMs, which fly against other boat, not the one on video. Most probably it was hit by Konkurs ATGM, boat was not very far from the coast and if they hit engine or fuel tank, it will very quickly burn. Boat doesn't have armor.



Novorussian army grow to 30.000 soldiers.

TR1 wrote:

Yes, yes, we all know true slavic genius Nobel Prize winning Russians are needed to drive T-72s. The Russian soul is needed to fuse with the Machine Spirit of this highly advanced and not made-for-retards to drive mass produced vehicle.

If thats true the Russian military couldn't drive those tanks!!

TheGeorgian wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

TheGeorgian wrote:Vann7, say what you want but FACT is it's a Russian made T-72B3 / BM. Now where this was taken etc is a different topic, but this is 100% A Russian modification T-72B3/BM. Can we please close the debate about this obvious FACT already please ?  

Destruction of what is claimed an Ukrainian Sea Guard vessel by supposedly Russian aircraft

It is not 100% clear that is the whole point of the discussion of experts, since it has several contradictions of equipment and the circumstances of the tanks condition.

I don't understand what's so unclear about that picture .... !
It has all the characteristics of the T-72B3. Turret looks exactly like the modification is supposed to be, from top to bottom. The rest is also as perfect as the blueprints suggest it. So how is this not a B3 ? maybe slightly variated, but like 0.1% slightly. They are not 100% sure, but what, 99% ?? are you seriously suggesting there might be a possibility that the Ukrainians quickly put togheter their own perfect B3 mockup just for propaganda purpose .... ?

You really don't read any sources that are presented unless the head lines say what you want to hear?

Notably crap Russophobe and provocateur Gur Khan, unable to determine the modification of the tank.
The tank of the visible damage only broken gunner's sight (1A40) and torn screens on the sides of the force. "Apparently Andrew did not read my version of the forum VIF2NE, from the publication of the controversial video. Specially remind:
Here are just a communication of what is depicted in the video and the photo is very obvious. No one has proven that it is one and the same tank. It firstly. Second, post a photo, with a high probability done before - during the exercise secondary cooling zone on the territory of Russia. Do not say, but I can guess. But in reality, it does not have anything that would clearly indicate to the Ukraine. It is also interesting that the EXIF image carefully cleaned - for what? In fact, if the tank is captured as solid Ukrainian propaganda - Present this tank! If it is destroyed - will submit at least its fragments!

So anyway, that vid of the coast guard boat being hit..

I can't make heads or tails out of it.

It seems like damning evidence. But why would the Russian AF attack a Ukr Coast Guard ship? That would be an indisputable act of war, and right off the shore of a city as well - it will be something that would be impossible to dismiss with plausible deniability - the rebels don't have an airforce.

At the same time, who attacks ships like that these days, even small ones? I guess it's quite possible if one wanted to economize on anti-ship missiles; but it leaves your aircraft open to small-arms fire and AAA.

But the only alternative - UA attacking its own boats; seems pretty far out too.
Perhaps if this ship was actually abandoned before the strike..

Flyingdutchman wrote:

TR1 wrote:

Vann7 wrote:

TheGeorgian wrote:

Werewolf wrote:
Read the pages before you fool.

Then B3. I've read it now you tool. Let's see if it's true or not. It's not like pro-Russian claims are any more valid and no dramatic denial proves, there's something on with that story. Russians neither denying nor confirming anything. So either way, separatists are getting all the stuff they need for a full out war.

Even if is a Russian tank.. and not a toy ,or photoshop.. there is nothing that indicates is a photo in Ukraine.. it could be Belarus or Any place in RUssia.. How do you know the place is Ukraine?  The part that made it very doubtful
was the stupid chechen.. Russia will never give an expensive tank to a mercenary chechen even if they said he was going to help. If Russia was going to supply a T-72BM tank to Ukraine they will have given it to a Veteran soldier of the Russian armed forces. That chechen doesn't look like have the IQ to drive a tank.

And if that wasn't enough is claimed it was "abandoned".  You don't abandon tanks in perfect conditions ,doesn't look like was disabled . If the tank was out of fuel ,they could have easily pulled it from another tank. I don't think Russia will give an expensive tank to a chechen and later leave it abandoned in Ukraine.

it could be real.. but so far looks like staged.. ie.. a fake.

Yes, yes, we all know true slavic genius Nobel Prize winning Russians are needed to drive T-72s. The Russian soul is needed to fuse with the Machine Spirit of this highly advanced and not made-for-retards to drive mass produced vehicle.

There have been plenty of T-64s abandoned by the Ukrainians in the fighting. If you think it is not possible for the separatists to do the same, you are high.

Sometimes i have the feeling everyone on this forum is high.

And this - coming from Holland..

medo wrote:
No aircraft in the video. Only smoke trails of ATGMs, which fly against other boat, not the one on video. Most probably it was hit by Konkurs ATGM, boat was not very far from the coast and if they hit engine or fuel tank, it will very quickly burn. Boat doesn't have armor.

Interesting, thanks. Yeah I was kinda surprised this little boat was still floating eventough it got supposedly hit by Russian aircraft as Ukranians suggesting. Actualy judging by the smoke it seems the boat got hit several times by ATGM.

Werewolf wrote:

TheGeorgian wrote:

Werewolf wrote:

TheGeorgian wrote:Vann7, say what you want but FACT is it's a Russian made T-72B3 / BM. Now where this was taken etc is a different topic, but this is 100% A Russian modification T-72B3/BM. Can we please close the debate about this obvious FACT already please ?  

Destruction of what is claimed an Ukrainian Sea Guard vessel by supposedly Russian aircraft

It is not 100% clear that is the whole point of the discussion of experts, since it has several contradictions of equipment and the circumstances of the tanks condition.

I don't understand what's so unclear about that picture .... !
It has all the characteristics of the T-72B3. Turret looks exactly like the modification is supposed to be, from top to bottom. The rest is also as perfect as the blueprints suggest it. So how is this not a B3 ? maybe slightly variated, but like 0.1% slightly. They are not 100% sure, but what, 99% ?? are you seriously suggesting there might be a possibility that the Ukrainians quickly put togheter their own perfect B3 mockup just for propaganda purpose .... ?

You really don't read any sources that are presented unless the head lines say what you want to hear?

Notably crap Russophobe and provocateur Gur Khan, unable to determine the modification of the tank.
The tank of the visible damage only broken gunner's sight (1A40) and torn screens on the sides of the force. "Apparently Andrew did not read my version of the forum VIF2NE, from the publication of the controversial video. Specially remind:
Here are just a communication of what is depicted in the video and the photo is very obvious. No one has proven that it is one and the same tank. It firstly. Second, post a photo, with a high probability done before - during the exercise secondary cooling zone on the territory of Russia. Do not say, but I can guess. But in reality, it does not have anything that would clearly indicate to the Ukraine. It is also interesting that the EXIF image carefully cleaned - for what? In fact, if the tank is captured as solid Ukrainian propaganda - Present this tank! If it is destroyed - will submit at least its fragments!

I've read it and that's why I stated there is only some very very VERY minor variaty on the tank that can be on any tank of the same modification, what has no great or no significance at all on proving any argumentative point, especialy not that's "it's not what it definitly is" ... a B3 with some minor equipment switch. I can't believe we are still arguing about the obvious fact it's a B3 .... The condition of the tank isn't the best too. You can't say it's freshly baked. Could have been manouvers, but a tank that is abandoned doesn't automaticaly have to look like it got knocked out or destroyed. UA abandoned a lot of their stuff completely intact.

Here some information on the B3
http://topwar.ru/32396-modernizirovannyy-tank-t-72b3.html

The CIA was busted in Mariupol.  



A german journalist enter one police station in mariupol.. since all of them were abandoned
by police before the siege . and found an office with American CIA papers.. What a surprise.
It was a CIA office..

@korki : Very interesting. So USA is that who send equipment and other stuff, including people in east Ukraine(let's not forget how one citizen of USA died near Ilovaysk). Typically, they accuse others what they do a and lying media spin propaganda.

And later NATO and the EU complain about Russia intervention but no talk about NATO intervention in Ukraine sending weapons and mercenaries to fuel the conflict.

TheGeorgian wrote:
Here some information on the B3
http://topwar.ru/32396-modernizirovannyy-tank-t-72b3.html

Are you refering to something specific in that link?

Сводки от ополчения Новороссии
31.08.14 21:28 Ополчение ЛНР взяло под свой контроль аэропорт Луганска.

По данным корреспондентов LifeNews, армии ЛНР удалось взять под свой контроль одну из важнейших точек - луганский аэропорт. Работа воздушной гавани приостановлена с мая из-за активных боевых действий вокруг.

За время военных действий на юго-востоке Украины аэропорт несколько раз переходил от ВС Украины к ополченцам и наоборот. В июне силам самообороны удалось блокировать воздушную гавань, однако ни о каком акивном штурме здания и территории в целом, речи не шло. По разным оценкам на территории аэропорта базировались от 500 до 2000 солдат Нацгвардии с вооружением и бронетехникой.

Корреспонденты LifeNews пытаются выяснить подробности боя за аэропорт. По предварительным данным, разрушения инфраструктуры на его территории более, чем значительны.

I hope this new will be confirmed as true. Novorussian forces liberate Lugansk Airport.

flamming_python wrote:So anyway, that vid of the coast guard boat being hit..

I can't make heads or tails out of it.

It seems like damning evidence. But why would the Russian AF attack a Ukr Coast Guard ship? That would be an indisputable act of war, and right off the shore of a city as well - it will be something that would be impossible to dismiss with plausible deniability - the rebels don't have an airforce.

At the same time, who attacks ships like that these days, even small ones? I guess it's quite possible if one wanted to economize on anti-ship missiles; but it leaves your aircraft open to small-arms fire and AAA.

But the only alternative - UA attacking its own boats; seems pretty far out too.
Perhaps if this ship was actually abandoned before the strike..

seems is rebels SU25 captured some time ago..

I love how all the social media mongers think that random pictures on twitter, facebook, and live journals is some definitive evidence of Russian invasion in to Ukraine, when the OSCE has been monitoring the Russian/Ukrainian border for months and have yet to make a statement implicating Russia for such activity. Who needs actual investigating institutions when you have facebook and twitter, who needs forensics degrees when you can stay a night in Holiday Inn Express:




...BTW the same sanctimonious hypocrites have yet to condemn NATO states for arms trafficking weapons in to Syria, and Obama's case arms trafficking weapons in to Mexico as well!

arpakola wrote:
seems is rebels SU25  captured some time ago..

Highly unlikely, the ATGM's were flying parallel to the water far to low and no trajectory to call it used by Su-25 or any other aircraft. Also those ATGMs were flying rather slow to be aircraft launched. Also if that would be Su-25 he would in 9/10 situations just wreck the crap out of the boat with unguided S-5/S-8 rockets and the video shows that the boat was engaged from the same direction with ATGM's , while one single Su-25 would make strafe, turn 180° and strafe again instead of circling around untill it is again at its first launching position. That is some ATGM team with quite a few ATGMs.

I can't stand this faggots who come by waves and ask whether Russia supplied this or that. We don't care, actually we complain why they don't supply the very best in unlimited amounts. And no we don't care if they shoot you out of USA taking your green card, you are cleaning stairs anyway.